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Rob Dekker
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 Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: ZEBRA electric school bus |
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When looking at battery tech for (PH)EVs, I came across an interesting
experiment converting a school bus into an electric vehicle.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/icat/projects/smud.pdf
The battery used here is a ZEBRA (NiNaCl liquid salt) battery pack.
These guys paid $53,500 for their 107 kWh ZEBRA battery (in 2003). In volume
production, the manufacturer price sheet goes to about $20,000 for the same
battery pack.
Lots of benefits here over other battery technologies, most notably its
cost, it>s robustness, safety and its absense of 'rare' metals. Nickel and
table salt (NaCl) are the main ingredients.
Technically, school busses (and city busses and most delivery vans) seem to
be a great early adopter to become "electrified", not just because of their
frequent stops (regenerative braking advantages), and air pollution (noone
likes stinking diesels in urban areas), but also because they run short
trips (no more than one day at a time).
ZEBRAs seem to have a very bright future in PHEV tech.
Rob |
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: Re: ZEBRA electric school bus |
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[quote]When looking at battery tech for (PH)EVs, I came across an interesting
experiment converting a school bus into an electric vehicle.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/icat/projects/smud.pdf
The battery used here is a ZEBRA (NiNaCl liquid salt) battery pack.
These guys paid $53,500 for their 107 kWh ZEBRA battery (in 2003). In
volume production, the manufacturer price sheet goes to about $20,000
for the same battery pack.
Lots of benefits here over other battery technologies, most notably
its cost, it>s robustness, safety and its absense of 'rare' metals.
Nickel and table salt (NaCl) are the main ingredients.
Technically, school busses (and city busses and most delivery vans)
seem to be a great early adopter to become "electrified", not just
because of their frequent stops (regenerative braking advantages),
and air pollution (noone likes stinking diesels in urban areas), but
also because they run short trips (no more than one day at a time).
ZEBRAs seem to have a very bright future in PHEV tech.
Nope, a rather dim one actually, because of the price.
[/quote]
Just a few cents/kW-hr if it cycles 5K times, a little more than a
dime including the electricity in many places.
In 2 years a perfectly tuned diesel running at optimum speed will be
17 cents/kW- hr.
In 6 years the diesel will be 50 cents/kW-hr.
Bret Cahill |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: Re: ZEBRA electric school bus |
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[quote]When looking at battery tech for (PH)EVs, I came across an interesting
experiment converting a school bus into an electric vehicle.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/icat/projects/smud.pdf
The battery used here is a ZEBRA (NiNaCl liquid salt) battery pack.
These guys paid $53,500 for their 107 kWh ZEBRA battery (in 2003). In volume
production, the manufacturer price sheet goes to about $20,000 for the same
battery pack.
Lots of benefits here over other battery technologies, most notably its
cost, it>s robustness, safety and its absense of 'rare' metals. Nickel and
table salt (NaCl) are the main ingredients.
Technically, school busses (and city busses and most delivery vans) seem to
be a great early adopter to become "electrified", not just because of their
frequent stops (regenerative braking advantages), and air pollution (noone
likes stinking diesels in urban areas), but also because they run short
trips (no more than one day at a time).
Yes, vehicles that do not require long ranges and have defined periods of use
that allow regular recharging would be a good bet for this kind of thing.
[/quote]
Like electric farm tractors?
Bret Cahill |
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Rod Speed
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:07 am Post subject: Re: ZEBRA electric school bus |
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Rob Dekker <rob@verific.com> wrote:
[quote]When looking at battery tech for (PH)EVs, I came across an interesting
experiment converting a school bus into an electric vehicle.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/icat/projects/smud.pdf
The battery used here is a ZEBRA (NiNaCl liquid salt) battery pack.
These guys paid $53,500 for their 107 kWh ZEBRA battery (in 2003). In
volume production, the manufacturer price sheet goes to about $20,000
for the same battery pack.
Lots of benefits here over other battery technologies, most notably
its cost, it>s robustness, safety and its absense of 'rare' metals.
Nickel and table salt (NaCl) are the main ingredients.
Technically, school busses (and city busses and most delivery vans)
seem to be a great early adopter to become "electrified", not just
because of their frequent stops (regenerative braking advantages),
and air pollution (noone likes stinking diesels in urban areas), but
also because they run short trips (no more than one day at a time).
ZEBRAs seem to have a very bright future in PHEV tech.
[/quote]
Nope, a rather dim one actually, because of the price. |
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Eeyore
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:16 am Post subject: Re: ZEBRA electric school bus |
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Rob Dekker wrote:
[quote]When looking at battery tech for (PH)EVs, I came across an interesting
experiment converting a school bus into an electric vehicle.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/icat/projects/smud.pdf
The battery used here is a ZEBRA (NiNaCl liquid salt) battery pack.
These guys paid $53,500 for their 107 kWh ZEBRA battery (in 2003). In volume
production, the manufacturer price sheet goes to about $20,000 for the same
battery pack.
Lots of benefits here over other battery technologies, most notably its
cost, it>s robustness, safety and its absense of 'rare' metals. Nickel and
table salt (NaCl) are the main ingredients.
Technically, school busses (and city busses and most delivery vans) seem to
be a great early adopter to become "electrified", not just because of their
frequent stops (regenerative braking advantages), and air pollution (noone
likes stinking diesels in urban areas), but also because they run short
trips (no more than one day at a time).
[/quote]
Yes, vehicles that do not require long ranges and have defined periods of use
that allow regular recharging would be a good bet for this kind of thing.
In Britain milk is in some places still available delivered fresh to your
doorstep using electric 'milk floats'. They are essentially short range low
speed baby delivery trucks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float
Graham |
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Rod Speed
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: Re: ZEBRA electric school bus |
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BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:
[quote]When looking at battery tech for (PH)EVs, I came across an
interesting experiment converting a school bus into an electric
vehicle.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/icat/projects/smud.pdf
The battery used here is a ZEBRA (NiNaCl liquid salt) battery pack.
These guys paid $53,500 for their 107 kWh ZEBRA battery (in 2003).
In volume production, the manufacturer price sheet goes to about
$20,000 for the same battery pack.
Lots of benefits here over other battery technologies, most notably
its cost, it>s robustness, safety and its absense of 'rare' metals.
Nickel and table salt (NaCl) are the main ingredients.
Technically, school busses (and city busses and most delivery vans)
seem to be a great early adopter to become "electrified", not just
because of their frequent stops (regenerative braking advantages),
and air pollution (noone likes stinking diesels in urban areas), but
also because they run short trips (no more than one day at a time).
ZEBRAs seem to have a very bright future in PHEV tech.
Nope, a rather dim one actually, because of the price.
Just a few cents/kW-hr if it cycles 5K times, a little more
than a dime including the electricity in many places.
[/quote]
Thats not the price that matters, its the cost of the batterys that matters.
[quote]In 2 years a perfectly tuned diesel running at optimum speed will be 17 cents/kW- hr.
[/quote]
And doesnt need those batterys.
[quote]In 6 years the diesel will be 50 cents/kW-hr.
[/quote]
Just another number plucked out of your arse. We can tell that from the smell. |
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Rod Speed
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:11 am Post subject: Re: ZEBRA electric school bus |
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BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:
[quote]When looking at battery tech for (PH)EVs, I came across an
interesting experiment converting a school bus into an electric
vehicle.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/icat/projects/smud.pdf
The battery used here is a ZEBRA (NiNaCl liquid salt) battery pack.
These guys paid $53,500 for their 107 kWh ZEBRA battery (in 2003).
In volume production, the manufacturer price sheet goes to about
$20,000 for the same battery pack.
Lots of benefits here over other battery technologies, most notably
its cost, it>s robustness, safety and its absense of 'rare' metals.
Nickel and table salt (NaCl) are the main ingredients.
Technically, school busses (and city busses and most delivery vans)
seem to be a great early adopter to become "electrified", not just
because of their frequent stops (regenerative braking advantages),
and air pollution (noone likes stinking diesels in urban areas),
but also because they run short trips (no more than one day at a
time).
Yes, vehicles that do not require long ranges and have defined
periods of use that allow regular recharging would be a good bet for
this kind of thing.
Like electric farm tractors?
[/quote]
Nope, the cost of the batterys is much too high.
It makes a hell of a lot more sense to use biodiesel in those.
They can even grow that themselves. |
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Eeyore
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: Re: ZEBRA electric school bus |
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BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:
[quote]When looking at battery tech for (PH)EVs, I came across an interesting
experiment converting a school bus into an electric vehicle.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/icat/projects/smud.pdf
The battery used here is a ZEBRA (NiNaCl liquid salt) battery pack.
These guys paid $53,500 for their 107 kWh ZEBRA battery (in 2003). In volume
production, the manufacturer price sheet goes to about $20,000 for the same
battery pack.
Lots of benefits here over other battery technologies, most notably its
cost, it>s robustness, safety and its absense of 'rare' metals. Nickel and
table salt (NaCl) are the main ingredients.
Technically, school busses (and city busses and most delivery vans) seem to
be a great early adopter to become "electrified", not just because of their
frequent stops (regenerative braking advantages), and air pollution (noone
likes stinking diesels in urban areas), but also because they run short
trips (no more than one day at a time).
Yes, vehicles that do not require long ranges and have defined periods of use
that allow regular recharging would be a good bet for this kind of thing.
Like electric farm tractors?
[/quote]
Not even remotely.
Graham |
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Bret Cahill
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: ZEBRA electric school bus |
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[quote]When looking at battery tech for (PH)EVs, I came across an interesting
experiment converting a school bus into an electric vehicle.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/icat/projects/smud.pdf
The battery used here is a ZEBRA (NiNaCl liquid salt) battery pack.
These guys paid $53,500 for their 107 kWh ZEBRA battery (in 2003). In volume
production, the manufacturer price sheet goes to about $20,000 for the same
battery pack.
Lots of benefits here over other battery technologies, most notably its
cost, it>s robustness, safety and its absense of 'rare' metals. Nickel and
table salt (NaCl) are the main ingredients.
Technically, school busses (and city busses and most delivery vans) seem to
be a great early adopter to become "electrified", not just because of their
frequent stops (regenerative braking advantages), and air pollution (noone
likes stinking diesels in urban areas), but also because they run short
trips (no more than one day at a time).
Yes, vehicles that do not require long ranges and have defined periods of use
that allow regular recharging would be a good bet for this kind of thing.
Like electric farm tractors?
Not even remotely.
[/quote]
Either you pay $25/gallon for diesel or you buy some batteries and
electric motors.
Or you raise oxen..
Bret Cahill |
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Rod Speed
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:17 am Post subject: Re: ZEBRA electric school bus |
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Bret Cahill <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote:
[quote]When looking at battery tech for (PH)EVs, I came across an
interesting experiment converting a school bus into an electric
vehicle.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/research/icat/projects/smud.pdf
The battery used here is a ZEBRA (NiNaCl liquid salt) battery
pack.
These guys paid $53,500 for their 107 kWh ZEBRA battery (in
2003). In volume production, the manufacturer price sheet goes to
about $20,000 for the same battery pack.
Lots of benefits here over other battery technologies, most
notably its cost, it>s robustness, safety and its absense of
'rare' metals. Nickel and table salt (NaCl) are the main
ingredients.
Technically, school busses (and city busses and most delivery
vans) seem to be a great early adopter to become "electrified",
not just because of their frequent stops (regenerative braking
advantages), and air pollution (noone likes stinking diesels in
urban areas), but also because they run short trips (no more than
one day at a time).
Yes, vehicles that do not require long ranges and have defined
periods of use that allow regular recharging would be a good bet
for this kind of thing.
Like electric farm tractors?
Not even remotely.
Either you pay $25/gallon for diesel or you buy some batteries and
electric motors.
Or you raise oxen..
[/quote]
Or you have enough of a clue to grow biodiesel, fool. |
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Eeyore
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:59 am Post subject: Re: ZEBRA electric school bus |
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Rod Speed wrote:
[quote]Or you have enough of a clue to grow biodiesel, fool.
[/quote]
Has anyone worked out out how much can we grow and the compatability with
world population and their food needs ?
Graham |
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Rod Speed
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: Re: ZEBRA electric school bus |
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Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
[quote]Rod Speed wrote
Or you have enough of a clue to grow biodiesel, fool.
Has anyone worked out out how much can we grow and the
compatability with world population and their food needs ?
[/quote]
Yep, its not a problem, particularly in the modern first
world where the agriculture is highly mechanised. |
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