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JOHN · Guest

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/yellow1.html

17 vaccine deaths recorded from 1996-2004 (Vellozzi C, et al. 1). "Since
1996, 34 cases of yellow fever vaccine-associated viscerotropic disease have
been described. We report a new case of YEL-AVD. Given the potential risks
associated with the vaccine, physicians should consider vaccination only for
patients truly at risk for exposure to yellow fever, especially for
primovaccination." (Muñoz J, et al. 2008 1)]

SanHolo · Guest

On Jul 9, 7:14 pm, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
[quote]http://www.whale.to/vaccines/yellow1.html

17 vaccine deaths recorded from 1996-2004 (Vellozzi C, et al. 1). "Since
1996, 34 cases of yellow fever vaccine-associated viscerotropic disease have
been described. We report a new case of YEL-AVD. Given the potential risks
associated with the vaccine, physicians should consider vaccination only for
patients truly at risk for exposure to yellow fever, especially for
primovaccination." (Muñoz J, et al. 2008 1)]
[/quote]

Well, that>s a difficult question. 30>000 deaths worldwide per year by
yellow fever vs. 17 deaths worldwide in 8 years from vaccination
(thats more than 2 per year!). Let me think about that... vaccination
wins. By 15>000 : 1.

JOHN · Guest

"SanHolo" <help.you.i.can@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:176271e2-1f25-405c-b548-50c9a1065519@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Well, that>s a difficult question. 30>000 deaths worldwide per year by
yellow fever vs. 17 deaths worldwide in 8 years from vaccination
(thats more than 2 per year!). Let me think about that... vaccination
wins. By 15>000 : 1.

yeah, looks good with the usual fake figures that you guys love.

"The WHO estimates that there are 200,000 cases of yellow fever per year
worldwide (1) 'There are 200,000 estimated cases of yellow fever (with
30,000 deaths) per year'. --despite official WHO statistics through 2004
showing an average of less than 1,000 cases per year for the past 35 years
(2). About 90% of cases occur in rural sub-Sahara Africa near the equator.
the remaining cases occur in South America....Nigeria, the country with the
greatest number of recorded cases since 1950, had just 49 cases from 1995
through 2004, with 11 deaths. Ghana had 13 during the same 10 year period."
Vaccine Safety Manual by Neil Z. Miller. (p.447)

Bit like your annual flu death lie:
"Every year in the United States, on average.......approximately 36,000
people die from flu." CDC October 6, 2004
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/keyfacts.htm

Number of flu deaths 753 (2002) CDC
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr52/nvsr52_13.pdf

another

"The statistic that is often quoted is that there are 25,000 kids infected
with Hepatitis B. After repeatedly asking the question as to how the CDC
arrived at this number, Harold S. Margolis, MD, Chief of the Hepatitis
Branch of the CDC finally admitted that 25,000 kids is simply an estimate.
They have no hard proof that there are definitely 25,000 kids with Hepatitis
B."--Lisa F. Reiss

"The numbers have been greatly inflated. For example, the WHO/UNAIDS says
that there has been 2.2 million AIDS deaths in Uganda so far, but the
Ugandan Ministry of Health records a cumulative total of only 56,000 AIDS
deaths since the beginning of the epidemic. The WHO>s report is 33 times
higher than the actual number of recorded, verified deaths. As of the end of
2001, official government bodies in the developing world have managed to
account for only 7 percent of the cumulative AIDS deaths that the WHO/UNAIDS
claim have occurred. The Russian Federation can only account for only 3
percent of the UNAIDS estimate of AIDS deaths. India has 2 percent of the
UNAIDS estimate. China has only 1 percent."-- Dr. Rodney Richards [2003]
Africa: Treating Poverty with Toxic Drugs By Liam Scheff [See BBC]

I could go on http://www.whale.to/vaccines/ploy5.html

JOHN · Guest

VAERS http://www.whale.to/vaccine/vaers_yf.html

17 vaccine deaths admitted from 1996-2004 (Vellozzi C, et al. 1, and VAERS
has 21 deaths from 1996-2006), and even the vaccinators advise against the
vaccine unless absolutely necessary (Muñoz J, et al. 2008 1), yet most
governments advise it for travel. Only compulsory when travelling from one
yellow fever country to another--few, if anyone, is told that either.
Usual WHO fantasy figures (see)--30,000 (similar to yearly CDC lie on
flu deaths) when stats say 11 deaths in Nigeria from 1995 to 2004 which is
less deaths than the vaccine achieves in the USA alone. Fyi: The measles
vaccine now kills more than measles would be doing (see: MMR deaths), and
the smallpox vaccine always killed more than smallpox did (see), at the end
it was killing 20 babies a year in the West, decades after smallpox died
out.]

Peter Parry · Guest

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:20:38 +0100, "JOHN" <john@nospam.com> wrote:

[quote]Usual WHO fantasy figures (see)--30,000 (similar to yearly CDC lie on
flu deaths) when stats say 11 deaths in Nigeria from 1995 to 2004 which is
less deaths than the vaccine achieves in the USA alone.
[/quote]
The "stats" for this claim appears to be unsubstantiated claims in a
book written by a somewhat biased journalist.

During the 1986/87 epidemic in Nigeria about 5,000 people of 15,000
infected died of yellow fever (Nigeria Ministry of Health figures).
(Other reports put the Oshogbo epidemic at 120,000 cases and about
24,000 deaths.)

Between 1982 and 1986 Nigeria reported 20,337 cases of Yellow fever.

Between 1990 and 2004 it reported 8,176 cases and over 300 deaths
(Bull Soc Pathol Exot, 2006, 99, 5, 341-347 and Nigeria Ministry of
Health).

It would appear that the journalist was being as economical with the
truth as you are with presenting it.

Are your other figures equally misleading?.

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Jul 11, 6:15 am, Peter Parry <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
[quote]On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:20:38 +0100, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
Usual WHO fantasy figures (see)--30,000 (similar to yearly CDC lie on
flu deaths) when stats say 11 deaths in Nigeria from 1995 to 2004 which is
less deaths than the vaccine achieves in the USA alone.

The "stats" for this claim appears to be unsubstantiated claims in a
book written by a somewhat biased journalist.

During the 1986/87 epidemic in Nigeria about 5,000 people of 15,000
infected died of yellow fever (Nigeria Ministry of Health figures).
(Other reports put the Oshogbo epidemic at 120,000 cases and about
24,000 deaths.)

Between 1982 and 1986 Nigeria reported 20,337 cases of Yellow fever.

Between 1990 and 2004 it reported 8,176 cases and over 300 deaths
(Bull Soc Pathol Exot, 2006, 99, 5, 341-347 and Nigeria Ministry of
Health).

It would appear that the journalist was being as economical with the
truth as you are with presenting it.

Are your other figures equally misleading?.
[/quote]
Oh you like FIGURES do you?

Well then here are some figures for you from:
http://www.whale.to/v/winston1.html
"During the 1850s, there were several epidemics of Yellow Fever in the
southern states. This disease was eventually found to be transmitted
by mosquito. Osler, says that the allopathic mortality from Yellow
Fever is between 15-85%. Holcome, a homeopath, reported in 1853 a
mortality of 6.43% in Natchez, and Dr. Davis, another homeopath in
Natchez, reported 5.73%. In 1878 the mortality in New Orleans was 50%
under allopathic care, and 5.6% (in 1,945 cases in the same epidemic)
with homeopathic care."---Julian Winston

Now, of course, they did not have yellow fever vaccinations
in those days. Let us see what one researcher has
to say about that:
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/morrell3.html
from an e-letter by Peter Morell:
"My objections are that it does not work; it is unnatural, that the
human race has survived healthily for countless generations without
them and that homeopathy provides a better alternative that is both
safe and effective [3]. Yet, I am not typical because many of those
who oppose vaccination know nothing about homeopathy, and as you say,
they object for political or religious reasons, that lie beyond the
scope of medical practice. However, once you use homeopathy and can
rely on it, as I have done for over twenty years, then one can see the
dangers and pitfalls of vaccination as another Russian roulette game
not worth the risk. Your article signally fails to even mention the
very real risks of vaccination to the health of some children. Though
these risks are very small, they can be serious. How can any parent
adequately assess such a complex topic when they are not given the
risk factors of vaccine damage, as well as what you call the benefits?
Most parents, like most clinicians, do not have homeopathy as a
fallback position from which they can rationally object to routine
vaccination."

Go FIGURE that out.

Citizen Jimserac

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Jul 11, 6:15 am, Peter Parry <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
[quote]On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:20:38 +0100, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
Usual WHO fantasy figures (see)--30,000 (similar to yearly CDC lie on
flu deaths) when stats say 11 deaths in Nigeria from 1995 to 2004 which is
less deaths than the vaccine achieves in the USA alone.

The "stats" for this claim appears to be unsubstantiated claims in a
book written by a somewhat biased journalist.

During the 1986/87 epidemic in Nigeria about 5,000 people of 15,000
infected died of yellow fever (Nigeria Ministry of Health figures).
(Other reports put the Oshogbo epidemic at 120,000 cases and about
24,000 deaths.)

Between 1982 and 1986 Nigeria reported 20,337 cases of Yellow fever.

Between 1990 and 2004 it reported 8,176 cases and over 300 deaths
(Bull Soc Pathol Exot, 2006, 99, 5, 341-347 and Nigeria Ministry of
Health).

It would appear that the journalist was being as economical with the
truth as you are with presenting it.

Are your other figures equally misleading?.
[/quote]
Oh you like FIGURES do you?

Well then here are some figures for you from:
http://www.whale.to/v/winston1.html
"During the 1850s, there were several epidemics of Yellow Fever in the
southern states. This disease was eventually found to be transmitted
by mosquito. Osler, says that the allopathic mortality from Yellow
Fever is between 15-85%. Holcome, a homeopath, reported in 1853 a
mortality of 6.43% in Natchez, and Dr. Davis, another homeopath in
Natchez, reported 5.73%. In 1878 the mortality in New Orleans was 50%
under allopathic care, and 5.6% (in 1,945 cases in the same epidemic)
with homeopathic care."---Julian Winston

Now, of course, they did not have yellow fever vaccinations
in those days. Let us see what one researcher has
to say about that:
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/morrell3.html
from an e-letter by Peter Morell:
"My objections are that it does not work; it is unnatural, that the
human race has survived healthily for countless generations without
them and that homeopathy provides a better alternative that is both
safe and effective [3]. Yet, I am not typical because many of those
who oppose vaccination know nothing about homeopathy, and as you say,
they object for political or religious reasons, that lie beyond the
scope of medical practice. However, once you use homeopathy and can
rely on it, as I have done for over twenty years, then one can see the
dangers and pitfalls of vaccination as another Russian roulette game
not worth the risk. Your article signally fails to even mention the
very real risks of vaccination to the health of some children. Though
these risks are very small, they can be serious. How can any parent
adequately assess such a complex topic when they are not given the
risk factors of vaccine damage, as well as what you call the benefits?
Most parents, like most clinicians, do not have homeopathy as a
fallback position from which they can rationally object to routine
vaccination."

Go FIGURE that out.

Citizen Jimserac

D. C. Sessions · Guest

In message <rsbe74p6h54fc50sfe67aeu76s5lec9a4v@4ax.com>, Peter Parry wrote:

[quote]Are your other figures equally misleading?.
[/quote]
Are you doing rhetorical questions today?

--
| "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against |
| unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct |
| before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson |
+-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+

SanHolo · Guest

On Jul 11, 7:19 pm, Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:

[quote]Well then here are some figures for you from:http://www.whale.to/v/winston1.html
...
[/quote]
That>s the sentence that forced me to stop reading your comment. Try
again.

Peter Parry · Guest

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:20:11 -0700 (PDT), Citizen Jimserac
<Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote:

[quote]On Jul 11, 6:15 am, Peter Parry <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:20:38 +0100, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
Usual WHO fantasy figures (see)--30,000 (similar to yearly CDC lie on
flu deaths) when stats say 11 deaths in Nigeria from 1995 to 2004 which is
less deaths than the vaccine achieves in the USA alone.

The "stats" for this claim appears to be unsubstantiated claims in a
book written by a somewhat biased journalist.

During the 1986/87 epidemic in Nigeria about 5,000 people of 15,000
infected died of yellow fever (Nigeria Ministry of Health figures).
(Other reports put the Oshogbo epidemic at 120,000 cases and about
24,000 deaths.)

Between 1982 and 1986 Nigeria reported 20,337 cases of Yellow fever.

Between 1990 and 2004 it reported 8,176 cases and over 300 deaths
(Bull Soc Pathol Exot, 2006, 99, 5, 341-347 and Nigeria Ministry of
Health).

It would appear that the journalist was being as economical with the
truth as you are with presenting it.

Are your other figures equally misleading?.

Oh you like FIGURES do you?
[/quote]
I like ones which are correct, the ones quoted were not.

[quote]Osler, says that the allopathic mortality from Yellow
Fever is between 15-85%.
[/quote]
In the late 1800>s that would have been more or less correct except
that the lower figure would, for the time, have been rather high as
Yellow Fever was frequently mis-diagnosed.

[quote]Holcome, a homeopath, reported in 1853 a
mortality of 6.43% in Natchez, and Dr. Davis, another homeopath in
Natchez, reported 5.73%. In 1878 the mortality in New Orleans was 50%
under allopathic care, and 5.6% (in 1,945 cases in the same epidemic)
with homeopathic care."
[/quote]
A certain Dr Sweetbaum in New Orleans during the same epidemic was
selling elixir which he guaranteed to be efficacious in every case.

[quote]Now, of course, they did not have yellow fever vaccinations
in those days. Let us see what one researcher has
to say about that:
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/morrell3.html
from an e-letter by Peter Morell:
[/quote]
Morell is a historian, astrologer and artist with no scientific or
medical qualifications is he not?

[quote]"My objections are that it does not work; it is unnatural, that the
human race has survived healthily for countless generations without
them and that homeopathy provides a better alternative that is both
safe and effective..."
[/quote]
I suggest that it would be unwise to accept the unsubstantiated
statement of an astrologer on the effectives or otherwise of vaccines
(or anything else for that matter)..

The discovery of the role of the mosquito in Yellow fever in the
1900>s is well known. So is the effectiveness of the vaccine first
produced in 1937.

If homeopaths and their supporters are so confident of their
treatments why not arrange for a few to reprise the Camp Lazear
experiments and infect themselves with Yellow Fever and then cure
themselves with Homeopathy?

However, this isn>t answering the question of why, especially if his
case is so strong, John felt it necessary to use false figures for
infection rates to justify it?

t · Guest

"SanHolo" <help.you.i.can@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ce41c079-cf4f-412c-8fba-4cbd6ac8db49@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
[quote]On Jul 11, 7:19 pm, Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well then here are some figures for you
from:http://www.whale.to/v/winston1.html
...

That>s the sentence that forced me to stop reading your comment. Try
again.
Corn anyone?[/quote]

Peter Bowditch · Guest

Citizen Jimserac <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote:

[quote]On Jul 11, 6:15 am, Peter Parry <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:20:38 +0100, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
Usual WHO fantasy figures (see)--30,000 (similar to yearly CDC lie on
flu deaths) when stats say 11 deaths in Nigeria from 1995 to 2004 which is
less deaths than the vaccine achieves in the USA alone.

The "stats" for this claim appears to be unsubstantiated claims in a
book written by a somewhat biased journalist.

During the 1986/87 epidemic in Nigeria about 5,000 people of 15,000
infected died of yellow fever (Nigeria Ministry of Health figures).
(Other reports put the Oshogbo epidemic at 120,000 cases and about
24,000 deaths.)

Between 1982 and 1986 Nigeria reported 20,337 cases of Yellow fever.

Between 1990 and 2004 it reported 8,176 cases and over 300 deaths
(Bull Soc Pathol Exot, 2006, 99, 5, 341-347 and Nigeria Ministry of
Health).

It would appear that the journalist was being as economical with the
truth as you are with presenting it.

Are your other figures equally misleading?.

Oh you like FIGURES do you?
[/quote]
Dontcha just love it? Someone points out inaccuracy from whale.to and
this fool points back to whale.to to support the original
inaccuracies.

Whatta maroon.

<snip factless citations and quotes>

--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

D. C. Sessions · Guest

In message <ce41c079-cf4f-412c-8fba-4cbd6ac8db49@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>, SanHolo wrote:

[quote]On Jul 11, 7:19 pm, Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well then here are some figures for you from:http://www.whale.to/v/winston1.html
...

That>s the sentence that forced me to stop reading your comment. Try
again.
[/quote]
Scopie>s Law strikes again.

--
| "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against |
| unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct |
| before reason can act on them" -- Thomas Jefferson |
+-------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> ---------+

JOHN · Guest

"D. C. Sessions" <dcs@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:2celk5-25h.ln1@news.lumbercartel.com...
[quote]
Scopie>s Law strikes again.

[/quote]
What passes for argument among quackpots

http://www.whale.to/b/appeal_to_incredulity.html


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