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jacko · Guest

On Jul 1, 8:19 am, Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demun...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
[quote]Providence <psioni...@gmail.com> writes:
On Jun 25, 12:10 pm, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:

[SNIP - Wacko jacko wibbling]

hey jacko i>m wondering if you could, instead of trying to figure out
how to code this concept in linear c/c++ style code blocks, if you
could produce a functional flow chart of the design schematic.

i>m sure your pocket pc has a 'ms paint' style program.. if you could
whip up some rectangles with descriptors and input/output definitions,
that would be super.

Jacko>s a grade A loon. His diagrams will make as little sense
as his words. Just killfile him, and move on.
[/quote]
such skill not used on the stock market? why aren>t you a
futureologist?

[quote]
Phil
--
Dear aunt, let>s set so double the killer delete select all.
-- Microsoft voice recognition live demonstration[/quote]

Jim Leonard · Guest

On Jul 9, 11:43 am, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]So the answer to your question is what is your prefered compact
representation of some algorithmic carrier with a low enough entropy?

My preferred representation would be any example that shows
compression of the 64-bit sequence I provided. If that>s too
complicated or long to work out manually, then feel free to tackle
just the first 32 bits.

obviously you haven>t quite got the number of algorithmic steps
involved in creating just one bit of the carrier.
[/quote]
So you>re implying that compression of my input sequence requires a
complicated carrier whose entropy matches the sequence?

Industrial One · Guest

On Jul 9, 10:42 am, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Hi been offline for some days
[/quote]
What happened?

[quote]What, you can>t afford a 150-watt desktop? -.-

got one but windows freekin' not netting up without a big freeze.
[/quote]
So do a clean install of WinXP or replace the network card. What
internet connection are you on?

[quote]Oh, the input is generated by the carrier?

The carrier is dependent on it>s last value, so indirectly it depends
on if a modulation was done.
[/quote]
Whaddya mean by last value? Last bit?

[quote]On Jun 27, 4:59 pm, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Assume the independently generated carrier wil provide a low entropy
sequence 0001 0010 1000 0000 1100 0000 0100 as a start

Generated from where? And why that sequence? Aren>t we focusing on
random input data?

By an algorithm, but that one was out of my head and has a low enough
entropy to demonstrate modulation. Yes the data input is random, but
the carrier is not random. It has a lower entropy than 1.
[/quote]
Well, you gotta include the input to better your explanation.
Furthermore, you>re telling me the modulation process involves more
than just appending a 0 after every 1 (or prepending.) You>re now
saying a 1 is transformed into 110 and that 000 becomes just 0. Since
modulation is more than just 1>10, can you list ALL of the functions?
Also, if three 0s become just one, how do you decode that later? What
do two 0s become?

Industrial One · Guest

Note: quit posting 4x in a row, it>s annoying. When you click "reply"
on another post and it opens the field, it won>t close your other
field, hence you can safely copy the quoted text from all the posts
into your (one) post.

Industrial One · Guest

Note: quit posting 4x in a row, it>s annoying. When you click "reply"
on another post and it opens the field, it won>t close your other
field, hence you can safely copy the quoted text from all the posts
into your (one) post.

jacko · Guest

On Jul 10, 8:37 am, Jim Leonard <MobyGa...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 9, 11:43 am, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:

So the answer to your question is what is your prefered compact
representation of some algorithmic carrier with a low enough entropy?

My preferred representation would be any example that shows
compression of the 64-bit sequence I provided. If that>s too
complicated or long to work out manually, then feel free to tackle
just the first 32 bits.

obviously you haven>t quite got the number of algorithmic steps
involved in creating just one bit of the carrier.

So you>re implying that compression of my input sequence requires a
complicated carrier whose entropy matches the sequence?
[/quote]
Almost! I>m implying that compression of your input sequence requires
a complicated carrier whose entropy depends in no way on the input
sequence, but depends on a complicated generating function.

jacko · Guest

On Jul 10, 10:06 pm, Industrial One <industrial_...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
[quote]On Jul 9, 10:42 am, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi been offline for some days

What happened?
[/quote]
Had problems with explorer freezing system on connect, so reinstalled
xp, put on sp2, downloaded Just IE7 just as IE6 crashed Dr. Watson
stylee. 7 has slightly improved matters, as control is eventually
returned, but IE locks for a minute or so on first connect.

[quote]What, you can>t afford a 150-watt desktop? -.-

got one but windows freekin' not netting up without a big freeze.

So do a clean install of WinXP or replace the network card. What
internet connection are you on?
[/quote]
Network 3, UK. Mobile broadband-ish. Using Phone as modem.

[quote]Oh, the input is generated by the carrier?

The carrier is dependent on it>s last value, so indirectly it depends
on if a modulation was done.

Whaddya mean by last value? Last bit?
[/quote]
Yes, plus the internal memory of the carrier.

[quote]On Jun 27, 4:59 pm, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Assume the independently generated carrier wil provide a low entropy
sequence 0001 0010 1000 0000 1100 0000 0100 as a start

Generated from where? And why that sequence? Aren>t we focusing on
random input data?

By an algorithm, but that one was out of my head and has a low enough
entropy to demonstrate modulation. Yes the data input is random, but
the carrier is not random. It has a lower entropy than 1.

Well, you gotta include the input to better your explanation.
Furthermore, you>re telling me the modulation process involves more
than just appending a 0 after every 1 (or prepending.) You>re now
saying a 1 is transformed into 110 and that 000 becomes just 0. Since
modulation is more than just 1>10, can you list ALL of the functions?
Also, if three 0s become just one, how do you decode that later? What
do two 0s become?
[/quote]
no 100 in the carrier becomes 110.
1 in the input stream makes a carrier of 00 go to 10
0 in the input stream makes carrier of 0 remain 0.

notice from the above that user input is only accepted when the
carrier is 0 before modulation. If the carrier is 1 before modulation
only the first 100 ->110 matters. this is equally valid executed as
1xx00 -> 1xx00
10xx0 -> 11xx0
1x0y0 -> 1x1y0
That is to say it is a nestable coding.

three zeros did not become just 1 zero. Threee zeros in the carrier
were left as three zeros.

cheers.

Jim Leonard · Guest

On Jul 11, 12:32 pm, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]So you>re implying that compression of my input sequence requires a
complicated carrier whose entropy matches the sequence?

Almost! I>m implying that compression of your input sequence requires
a complicated carrier whose entropy depends in no way on the input
sequence, but depends on a complicated generating function.
[/quote]
How is that function derived?

jacko · Guest

On Jul 11, 9:42 pm, Jim Leonard <MobyGa...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 11, 12:32 pm, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:

So you>re implying that compression of my input sequence requires a
complicated carrier whose entropy matches the sequence?

Almost! I>m implying that compression of your input sequence requires
a complicated carrier whose entropy depends in no way on the input
sequence, but depends on a complicated generating function.

How is that function derived?
[/quote]
Lets start with some definitions:
1. An active carrier bit = the bit!
2. Ring location = location of bit within a modulo ring.
3. Randomization = pseudo randomization via exclusive or with a pseudo
random bit generated from a reversable linear congruential generator
or maximal length PRBS generator.
4. movement of the bit = movement of the bit arround the ring.
5. Plane of the ring = the ring exsists on two planes (1 extra bit of
state)
6. velocity of the bit = rate in steps of movement of the bit.

Put simply the movement of the bit at avelocity depends on the plane
of the bit ring.

One plane randomization of half of the ring locations, and has a 2:1
velocity based on the bit state.
other plane sampling of half of the ring locations and has a 1:2
velocity based on the bit state.
switching between lanes is occasionally done in the other half of ring
locations not performing function.

The sampling has to be sub sampled so that the bit has passed arround
the ring more than once (i.e. through a randomization) before it would
be considered a valid bit for use.

the bit in question has a lower entropy than 1.

cheers

Industrial One · Guest

On Jul 11, 11:44 am, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 9, 10:42 am, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi been offline for some days

What happened?

Had problems with explorer freezing system on connect, so reinstalled
xp, put on sp2, downloaded Just IE7 just as IE6 crashed Dr. Watson
stylee. 7 has slightly improved matters, as control is eventually
returned, but IE locks for a minute or so on first connect.
Network 3, UK. Mobile broadband-ish. Using Phone as modem.
[/quote]
Reinstalled XP on what machine? The desk or palmtop? Use Firefox. I>ve
been using IE forever until a couple years ago when I noticed Mozilla
Firefox doesn>t lag 15 seconds before loading every goddamn page. And
by "broadbandish" I>ll assume DSL. I heard the UK is way behind on
internet technology for a developed country. Limeys fancy only
football minus the porn? Fags...

[quote]Oh, the input is generated by the carrier?

The carrier is dependent on it>s last value, so indirectly it depends
on if a modulation was done.

Whaddya mean by last value? Last bit?

Yes, plus the internal memory of the carrier.
[/quote]
Internal memory?

[quote]Well, you gotta include the input to better your explanation.
Furthermore, you>re telling me the modulation process involves more
than just appending a 0 after every 1 (or prepending.) You>re now
saying a 1 is transformed into 110 and that 000 becomes just 0. Since
modulation is more than just 1>10, can you list ALL of the functions?
Also, if three 0s become just one, how do you decode that later? What
do two 0s become?

no 100 in the carrier becomes 110.
1 in the input stream makes a carrier of 00 go to 10
0 in the input stream makes carrier of 0 remain 0.
[/quote]
Wouldn>t 100 become 1011? since 1>10 and 0>1?

If you modulate the pseudorandom 100-byte sequence below with the
arugment 1>10

0001011110010001110101000000011101101110100100001101001000101000011000001101100101100011101110110111

it becomes:

111101101010101110111101010110110111111110101011010110101011011101111101011011101111011011111010111111010110101110110101111010101101010110101101010

and if we XOR (you don>t mention this but I recall it in an email) it
becomes

000010010101010001000010101001001000000001010100101001010100100010000010100100010000100100000101000000101001010001001010000101010010101001010010101

Now what is the COMPLETE process? if 100 becomes 110 then:

000011010101011001100010101101101100000001010110101101010110110011000010110110011000110110000101100000101101011001101011000101011010101101011010101

This is reversible, which is good. But now what? Am I understanding
your algorithm right so far?

Jim Leonard · Guest

On Jul 12, 8:52 am, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Almost! I>m implying that compression of your input sequence requires
a complicated carrier whose entropy depends in no way on the input
sequence, but depends on a complicated generating function.

How is that function derived?

Lets start with some definitions:
[/quote]
I didn>t ask for how your system was defined, I asked for how the
generator function was derived. Specifically:

[quote]3. Randomization = pseudo randomization via exclusive or with a pseudo
random bit generated from a reversable linear congruential generator
or maximal length PRBS generator.
[/quote]
Are you saying that any random bitstream is enough for your system to
compress all data?

jacko · Guest

On Jul 13, 2:00 am, Industrial One <industrial_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 11, 11:44 am, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jul 9, 10:42 am, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi been offline for some days

What happened?

Had problems with explorer freezing system on connect, so reinstalled
xp, put on sp2, downloaded Just IE7 just as IE6 crashed Dr. Watson
stylee. 7 has slightly improved matters, as control is eventually
returned, but IE locks for a minute or so on first connect.
Network 3, UK. Mobile broadband-ish. Using Phone as modem.

Reinstalled XP on what machine? The desk or palmtop? Use Firefox. I>ve
been using IE forever until a couple years ago when I noticed Mozilla
Firefox doesn>t lag 15 seconds before loading every goddamn page. And
by "broadbandish" I>ll assume DSL. I heard the UK is way behind on
internet technology for a developed country. Limeys fancy only
football minus the porn? Fags...
[/quote]
about 15KB/s max depending on time of day.

[quote]Oh, the input is generated by the carrier?

The carrier is dependent on it>s last value, so indirectly it depends
on if a modulation was done.

Whaddya mean by last value? Last bit?

Yes, plus the internal memory of the carrier.

Internal memory?
[/quote]
ring position, plane occupied and prbs seed.

[quote]Well, you gotta include the input to better your explanation.
Furthermore, you>re telling me the modulation process involves more
than just appending a 0 after every 1 (or prepending.) You>re now
saying a 1 is transformed into 110 and that 000 becomes just 0. Since
modulation is more than just 1>10, can you list ALL of the functions?
Also, if three 0s become just one, how do you decode that later? What
do two 0s become?

no 100 in the carrier becomes 110.
1 in the input stream makes a carrier of 00 go to 10
0 in the input stream makes carrier of 0 remain 0.

Wouldn>t 100 become 1011? since 1>10 and 0>1?
[/quote]
if the carrier bit is 1 then no user information is stored, so no it
wouldn>t, and where did you come up with the 0->1 thing from? a zero
in the carrier will be turned into a 1 in the carrier on modulation,
but a zero in the input stream will never cause a modulation, so 0 ->
0.

[quote]If you modulate the pseudorandom 100-byte sequence below with the
arugment 1>10

0001011110010001110101000000011101101110100100001101001000101000011000001101100101100011101110110111

it becomes:

111101101010101110111101010110110111111110101011010110101011011101111101011011101111011011111010111111010110101110110101111010101101010110101101010
[/quote]
No it doesn>t where are the runs of 0s.

[quote]and if we XOR (you don>t mention this but I recall it in an email) it
becomes

000010010101010001000010101001001000000001010100101001010100100010000010100100010000100100000101000000101001010001001010000101010010101001010010101
[/quote]
I said nothing about XOR ing the user input sream with anything. At
certain points in generating the carrier, the carrier is XORed with a
PRBS.

[quote]Now what is the COMPLETE process? if 100 becomes 110 then:

000011010101011001100010101101101100000001010110101101010110110011000010110110011000110110000101100000101101011001101011000101011010101101011010101
[/quote]
You seem to be stuck on the idea that I am carrying out major
manipulation of the user input stream. I do not suggest this in any
way. I suggest doing major manipulation of a generated carrier, and
collecting the user input stream onto it.

[quote]This is reversible, which is good. But now what? Am I understanding
your algorithm right so far?
[/quote]
No.

Jim Leonard · Guest

On Jul 13, 2:51 pm, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]I suggest doing major manipulation of a generated carrier, and
collecting the user input stream onto it.
[/quote]
How? Where is this step documented? How is the carrier manipulated
to match the input stream?

Industrial One · Guest

On Jul 13, 1:51 pm, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]about 15KB/s max depending on time of day.
[/quote]
Dayum... I feel sorry for you. Why are you using your phone as a
modem? Can>t you afford a real internet account, or ya don>t care?

[quote]Oh, the input is generated by the carrier?

The carrier is dependent on it>s last value, so indirectly it depends
on if a modulation was done.

Whaddya mean by last value? Last bit?

Yes, plus the internal memory of the carrier.

Internal memory?

ring position, plane occupied and prbs seed.
[/quote]
Ah, the ticks of the clock? And whats a PRBS seed? I assume the PR
stands for pseudorandom. What>s the role/use of that?

[quote]Wouldn>t 100 become 1011? since 1>10 and 0>1?

if the carrier bit is 1 then no user information is stored, so no it
wouldn>t, and where did you come up with the 0->1 thing from? a zero
in the carrier will be turned into a 1 in the carrier on modulation,
but a zero in the input stream will never cause a modulation, so 0 -
0.
[/quote]
Sorry, I re-read that 2005 post where you explain modulation. Some 0s
in the CARRIER stream are modulated to ones, k.

[quote]If you modulate the pseudorandom 100-byte sequence below with the
arugment 1>10

0001011110010001110101000000011101101110100100001101001000101000011000001101100101100011101110110111

it becomes:

111101101010101110111101010110110111111110101011010110101011011101111101011011101111011011111010111111010110101110110101111010101101010110101101010

No it doesn>t where are the runs of 0s.

and if we XOR (you don>t mention this but I recall it in an email) it
becomes

000010010101010001000010101001001000000001010100101001010100100010000010100100010000100100000101000000101001010001001010000101010010101001010010101

I said nothing about XOR ing the user input sream with anything. At
certain points in generating the carrier, the carrier is XORed with a
PRBS.
[/quote]
I falsely thought I recalled you telling me that in an email, I re-
read it as well.

[quote]Now what is the COMPLETE process? if 100 becomes 110 then:

000011010101011001100010101101101100000001010110101101010110110011000010110110011000110110000101100000101101011001101011000101011010101101011010101

You seem to be stuck on the idea that I am carrying out major
manipulation of the user input stream. I do not suggest this in any
way. I suggest doing major manipulation of a generated carrier, and
collecting the user input stream onto it.
[/quote]
This is what I don>t get. My narrow-minded mind is just being modest,
but how exactly is the carrier generated? Are the carrier bits
(initial, not including the user input that>ll later be collected into
it) directly affected by the specified input stream, even when it
changes by a single bit somewhere? Or can different user inputs be
absorbed into the same carrier?

[quote]No.
[/quote]
Ok, the carrier bits are like periodic "stat checkspoints" for the
user input stream?

erpy · Guest

Industrial One ha scritto:
[quote]On Jul 13, 1:51 pm, jacko <jackokr...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is what I don>t get. My narrow-minded mind is just being modest,
but how exactly is the carrier generated? Are the carrier bits
(initial, not including the user input that>ll later be collected into
it) directly affected by the specified input stream, even when it
changes by a single bit somewhere? Or can different user inputs be
absorbed into the same carrier?

(operated some snip)[/quote]

My (as well) narrow mind is only able to summarize Jacko>s emails into
these simplistic steps:

- generate a random bit sequence (carrier) which both the sender and the
receiver know (compressor -> decompressor)
- change the bit state of the carrier if the user input bit tells you so
(i.e. if it>s a "1" in the input)
- knowing the pseudo random - or truely random, whatever - carrier
stream, the receiver knows what>s changed and what>s not
- doing the "input modulation" on the carrier jacko hopes the carrier
itself becomes "less random" due to the unbalancing of the 1>s and 0>s
frequency occured - thus achieving compression through common algorithms
- and sending the compressed carrier to the receiver.

I probably don>t have the modulation right, but this is what I got from
the whole thing. If I got a good part of this right then jacko has to
prove that:

1) he>s able to generate such a random stream as a carrier - and that
serves the purpose of compression after modulation.
2) he>s able to do point 1) without having to store gigabytes of random
strings in the compressor/decompressor.
3) he>s able to show that, no matter what>s the input that modulates the
carrier, the carrier loses it>s randomness, and not the other way around.
4) that doing point 3) he, on average, can compress random input
strings, rather than expand them all.

Best,
E.


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