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Jill
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 Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Sick Black Rock |
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wafflycat wrote:
[quote]Indeed, of Jill>s query of
£40K, I see that for the year ending 31 12 06,
[/quote]
In their statement of assets and liabilities their net assets at the end of
2006 were £39060
Which included £28898 in bank accounts.
The last time I had looked I had not seen the 2007 accounts posted, I should
have returned last night before posting here.
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk |
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wafflycat
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Sick Black Rock |
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"A_ L _P" <hay_hell_pea@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:48576514.2050109@xnet.co.nz...
[quote]
Jill did the straw man of, in effect, if you have ex-batts then somehow,
you>re doing down other breeds, which is crap. It>s no different to
someone having a moggie as a pet as opposed to a purebreed Siamese cat.
Nor is saving some ex-batts and not liking the battery system somehow
mean that you>re against feeding folk. If someone has ex-batts then it
doesn>t mean they don>t give a stuff about other breeds of poultry.
I don>t think she said that at all, not the way I read it anyway but then
I wasn>t feeling defensive to start with. I can see her point of view,
that some people>s energies and resources are going into what may often be
kind impulses without enough understanding to recognise that battery birds
don>t have the "know-how" or the stamina for what would to humans seem to
be the best thing: freedom. From what you said about the way you keep
yours it seems that they have a good balance of shelter and freedom to
range around. You may not have seen the down-side of what happens when
people>s compassion is greater than their understanding of the needs of
birds, and lets face it, ex-battery chooks are not the same as barnyard
birds.
[/quote]
I worked with a couple of animal welfare organisations, not just an interest
in ex-batts. I>ve seen what 'kind impulses' can do and they aren>t just
limited to dealing with poultry, and it>s not just limited to the obvious
basket cases of abused animals of all kinds. I>ve seen pedigree animals of
various types in shelters too. Ignorance isn>t the sole prerogative of some
interested in ex-batts. And nor should the highlighting of the ignornace
detract from the wider issue of humane treatment of our food producing
animals.
[quote]It>s like if you or I were whirled up like Dorothy and dropped down in the
middle of a huge expanse of goodness knows where, no familiar sights, no
idea how one is supposed to negotiate this vast space and find the
necessaries of life. I had a couple of ex-factory chooks some years ago,
poor looking things with long toe-nails that had to be clipped before they
could scratch in the deep litter. They stood around looking bewildered,
had to be placed in front of the food and water. It didn>t take long
before they had found out about the joys of scratching and dust-bathing but
until they did I hate to think how they>d have managed if I>d just put them
into a big open pen and expected them to find their way into the house at
night and find food from a hopper - they truly didn>t have any survival
skills, poor things.
And it>s not that we can>t love and care for ex-batts and old breeds, but
Jill>s point was as I understood it the very obvious one, that few if any
of us have unlimited space and money resources. So what I think she was
on about was, why not give that love and chance of a great life to the old
breeds that as well as being fascinating and delightful - as are IMO any
chooks, but I may be prejudiced (!) - carry genes that we may need in the
future.
[/quote]
But it>s a straw man that Jill has placed. It really doesn>t have to be one
over the other and it isn>t. Some folk will get pure breeds, some the
hybrids, some raise form chicks, some POL, some rescues. And long may it be
the case. It really isn>t taking one at the expense of another. Indeed, the
hen that introduces someone to poultry may well be the hen that starts a
life-long love of all sorts of poultry. That>s good, as is the gaining
understanding of where food is from.
[quote]Remember the potato famine? No, not personally, I>m sure you aren>t THAT
old! I mean, potatoes being the one vital crop at the time in Ireland,
when the virus attacked the crop the people starved. We need genetic
diversity to combat viruses and parasites etc that may attack our present
food sources including poultry and eggs. The way to keep our options open
is for people who have the luxury of being able to put private efforts into
chickens as a hobby rather than as a commercial business, to keep and breed
and improve the strains of birds that have their own unique
characteristics. This can be one>s investment in the future... alas
despite appreciating the wisdom of this I am personally crazy about my
patchwork-quilt collection of this, that and the other - the most
genetically mixed up collection of chooks you could find in a long day>s
march!
[/quote]
So who is against genetic diversity? The who brought up this straw man
argument is Jill. She>s clever, I>ll give her that.
> A L P |
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Jill
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Sick Black Rock |
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wafflycat wrote:
[quote]The who brought up this straw man
argument is Jill.
[/quote]
You are the only one misrepresenting anyone else>s opinions here.
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk |
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Amy Blankenship
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Sick Black Rock |
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"A_ L _P" <hay_hell_pea@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:48576514.2050109@xnet.co.nz...
[quote]wafflycat wrote:
Jill did the straw man of, in effect, if you have ex-batts then somehow,
you>re doing down other breeds, which is crap. It>s no different to
someone having a moggie as a pet as opposed to a purebreed Siamese cat.
Nor is saving some ex-batts and not liking the battery system somehow
mean that you>re against feeding folk. If someone has ex-batts then it
doesn>t mean they don>t give a stuff about other breeds of poultry.
....
And it>s not that we can>t love and care for ex-batts and old breeds, but
Jill>s point was as I understood it the very obvious one, that few if any
of us have unlimited space and money resources. So what I think she was
on about was, why not give that love and chance of a great life to the old
breeds that as well as being fascinating and delightful - as are IMO any
chooks, but I may be prejudiced (!) - carry genes that we may need in the
future. ...
[/quote]
The problem is, there>s always someone out there ready to tell you what you
should do. So, instead of encouraging breeders to keep hatching out new
hens when there are already ex batts around that need homes, why not put
your efforts into a poor old thing who deserves a comfortable retirement.
Or, why spend your money on needy chickens? Why not take that time that you
spend on needy chickens and work at a soup kitchens. You could donate all
your feed money to charity. Or, whatever...
No one is ever going to meet the entire world>s standards for what they
should do with their time, money, and energy. That>s why it is THEIR time,
money, and energy. |
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Old Codger
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: The Ego Industry>s psychopathology |
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On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:41:39 +1200, A_ L _P <hay_hell_pea@xnet.co.nz>
wrote:
[quote]Steve Newport wrote:
Yawn.................
You *have* kill-filed that bozo now, haven>t you?
For some people *any* attention is good >> encouragement.
A L P
[/quote]
Don>t confuse yourself girls or I shall be back to reinforce the
training session.
You have been warned. |
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A_ L _P
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:57 am Post subject: Re: Sick Black Rock |
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Amy Blankenship wrote:
[quote]"A_ L _P" <hay_hell_pea@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:48576514.2050109@xnet.co.nz...
wafflycat wrote:
Jill did the straw man of, in effect, if you have ex-batts then somehow,
you>re doing down other breeds, which is crap. It>s no different to
someone having a moggie as a pet as opposed to a purebreed Siamese cat.
Nor is saving some ex-batts and not liking the battery system somehow
mean that you>re against feeding folk. If someone has ex-batts then it
doesn>t mean they don>t give a stuff about other breeds of poultry.
....
And it>s not that we can>t love and care for ex-batts and old breeds, but
Jill>s point was as I understood it the very obvious one, that few if any
of us have unlimited space and money resources. So what I think she was
on about was, why not give that love and chance of a great life to the old
breeds that as well as being fascinating and delightful - as are IMO any
chooks, but I may be prejudiced (!) - carry genes that we may need in the
future. ...
The problem is, there>s always someone out there ready to tell you what you
should do. So, instead of encouraging breeders to keep hatching out new
hens when there are already ex batts around that need homes, why not put
your efforts into a poor old thing who deserves a comfortable retirement.
Or, why spend your money on needy chickens? Why not take that time that you
spend on needy chickens and work at a soup kitchens. You could donate all
your feed money to charity. Or, whatever...
No one is ever going to meet the entire world>s standards for what they
should do with their time, money, and energy. That>s why it is THEIR time,
money, and energy.
Of course not. That>s why decisions on what to spend them on is so[/quote]
important. There>s nothing strange about asking around and searching
for all available information before deciding which car to buy, and
there>s nothing wrong with giving information and recommendations - it>s
not like someone>s forcing you to buy a Prius when a van is what you
really want. Same with the time and energy decisions, if nobody ever
gives anyone else their recommendations it could be that the other
person had never considered the alternatives to their first idea, or had
not considered the advantages of other potential choices. Recommending
is not the same as putting a gun to people>s heads and forcing them to
sign up for X instead of Y.
Recommendations given without some reasons don>t do it for me
personally. I like a person to be able to argue the case for their
choice. Not of course if they>re just saying "This is what I do because
I like it" which is valid, but if they>re saying "I think you should
consider this option for yourself" I want to know why it>s in their
opinion the best choice. Take the car example: not as cheap to run as
X but far fewer rust and mechanical problems than Y which means that you
won>t have to replace it, wasting earth>s resources...."
I think it>s a pity when people get offended and take it personally when
someone gives advice or recommendations. If only they>d remember it is
not compulsory. Perhaps in this case it>s the fact that Jill is
knowledgeable, experienced and successful in her field that makes people
feel that if she says something it means they have to obey. But that>s
not so. On Usenet we ignore all sorts of people>s ideas because we
don>t agree with them, or we debate them if we feel we have valid
alternative views. Anyone who doesn>t like what Jill advises should do
likewise. For myself I find her advice extremely valuable though it has
to be filtered through my knowledge of conditions here in the part of NZ
where I live.
It>s only advice... it>s not an AK47. If we all remembered that about
what is posted on newsgroups we>d all be much more mellow :-)
A L P |
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Gordie
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:30 am Post subject: Re: We lost power to our incubator |
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On Sat, 31 May 2008 08:28:20 -0500, Amy Blankenship wrote:
[quote]"Gordie" <gordy@nolalu.on.ca> wrote in message
news:fNqdnWKdNcirEd3VnZ2dnUVZ_ozinZ2d@tbaytel.net...
On Mon, 05 May 2008 16:16:42 +0800, Ginny wrote:
Jill wrote:
Ginny wrote:
Storing eggs for incubating has always been a bit tricky here
because of the temp. I don>t put them in the fridge but finding a
cool room in the house over summer can be hard :)
All the reading I>ve done indicates it isn>t a good idea although I
haven>t tested the theory out myself.
One of the problems with a fridge is that the cold can cause
condensation on the eggs which is potentially able to compromise the
'seal'.
Also contamination from other things in the fridge are possible.
But I can understand about the difficulties in a hot climate. Maybe
an old fridge that can be kepts for eggs alone at a higher
temperature ?? ;)
At present I use the office as it has air conditioning and insulated
curtains but the best thing is not to keep them very long before
incubating. No more than a week, often only a couple days. Even then I
get early chicks over summer as the temp is mostly 20-25°C in any room
while waiting for enough eggs. It doesn>t worry that much. Worse when
people give me eggs to hatch and I don>t know how old or how they have
been stored.
A hen can incubate 14 or so eggs. She only lays one egg daily and
saves them up until she has a clutch. 14 eggs means 14 days of saving.
I tried the fridge thing and the cold kills the egg by about day 4.
Try using more hens for laying the eggs.
[/quote]
THAT is why we incubate!
You got nothing to do? Don>t do it here. |
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