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Dan Bloomquist · Guest

Apparently the Wind Industry still can>t stand on its own

Scroll on down to:

Wind Industry, Environmentalists Split on Energy Bill

http://www.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.php?prgDate=31-Dec-2003&prgId=3

Best, Dan.

--
http://lakeweb.net
http://ReserveAnalyst.com
dbAtLakewebDotCom

cyril · Guest

Dan Bloomquist <lakeweb@citlink.net>, notre ami(e) à tous, qu>on aime
tellement qu>on ne l'échangerait pas contre un carton de Lussac-St
Emilion 1990 (deux cartons, je dis pas), a écrit :

[quote]
Apparently the Wind Industry still can>t stand on its own

Scroll on down to:

Wind Industry, Environmentalists Split on Energy Bill

http://www.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.php?prgDate=31-Dec-2003&prgId=3

Best, Dan.
[/quote]
Yes, wind energy needs public money.

However, don>t forget that other energy industries are helped by
public money too.

Nuclear industry relies on technologies and infrastructures created
for military purposes.

Oil industry needs thousands of US (and allies) soldiers in the Gulf,
to secure the fields. These soldiers aren>t paid by Texaco.

Many countries, like Germany, also gives public funds to protect coal
mines that would otherwise be closed, their coal being much more
expansive that imported coal.

--
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
Aldous Huxley

quibbler · Guest

In article <3FF309A1.8090403@citlink.net>, lakeweb@citlink.net says...
[quote]
Apparently the Wind Industry still can>t stand on its own
[/quote]
Like any industry, they will take any hand out they can get. The entire
GOP energy bill is one giant hand out after another to the fossil and
fissile energy industry, with wind credits held hostage to the rest of the
pork barrel, including building a hooters bar in Louisiana (yeah, really).

No One · Guest

[quote]Apparently the Wind Industry still can>t stand on its own

Like any industry, they will take any hand out they can get. The entire
GOP energy bill is one giant hand out after another to the fossil and
fissile energy industry, with wind credits held hostage to the rest of the
pork barrel, including building a hooters bar in Louisiana (yeah, really).
[/quote]

IOW, its like all the energy bills the democrats passed. As well as
probably 90% of every bill coming out of Congress no matter who>s in power.
After all how do you expect those guys to get relected it they can>t buy
votes with our tax money?

Anyone else want term limits on 'em?

pragmatist · Guest

"No One" <toomuch@spam.com> wrote in message news:<pRWIb.7$_N1.69631@news.abs.net>...
[quote]Apparently the Wind Industry still can>t stand on its own

Like any industry, they will take any hand out they can get. The entire
GOP energy bill is one giant hand out after another to the fossil and
fissile energy industry, with wind credits held hostage to the rest of the
pork barrel, including building a hooters bar in Louisiana (yeah, really).

IOW, its like all the energy bills the democrats passed. As well as
probably 90% of every bill coming out of Congress no matter who>s in power.
After all how do you expect those guys to get relected it they can>t buy
votes with our tax money?

Anyone else want term limits on 'em?
[/quote]
A big me too! - But not for proping up renewable power.
At least it does no harm, at best it relieves some of the damage done
by the reat of the pork.
Pragmatist

"When all Government shall be drawn to Washington, as the center of
all power it shall become as venal and oppressive as the government
from which we separated."
-- Thomas Jefferson, President

Don Lancaster · Guest

pragmatist wrote:
[quote]
A big me too! - But not for proping up renewable power.
At least it does no harm, at best it relieves some of the damage done
by the rest of the pork.
Pragmatist
[/quote]
Rancid pork is rancid pork.

Virtually all federal alternate energy subsidies to date have been
monumental failures having the exact opposite of the intended effect.

See the summary of these stupidities at
http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu03.asp

The best way for alternate energy to happen is for the feds to get and
stay out of the way.

See http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
voice: (928)428-4073 email: don@tinaja.com fax 847-574-1462

Please visit my GURU>s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

Roland Paterson-Jones · Guest

"Don Lancaster" <don@tinaja.com> wrote in message
[quote]pragmatist wrote:

A big me too! - But not for proping up renewable power.
At least it does no harm, at best it relieves some of the damage done
by the rest of the pork.
Pragmatist

Rancid pork is rancid pork.

Virtually all federal alternate energy subsidies to date have been
monumental failures having the exact opposite of the intended effect.
[/quote]
Would this include the current incursion into Iraq?

Fossil fuels have had an unapposed reign. The local Calt*x refinery here in
Cape Town, which has been an obvious eye-sight contributor to winter
pollution trapped under our local winter-pattern inversion layer, is now
being fingered by a university study for the high incidence of asthma in the
surrounding areas.

Rancid pork is endemic in the fossil fuel supply chain. Unfortunately the US
system of lobbied democracy is not going to disinfect that.

Consider the lifestyle costs of a fossil fuel state, and I>m sure you, like
me, will decide to relocate to a clean environment in Africa. Take a holiday
and make your own mind up. Details below.

Roland

p.s. The poster has a 100% interest in the guest-houses promoted below...
--
Roland and Lisa Paterson-Jones
Forest Lodge, Stirrup Lane, Hout Bay
http://www.rolandpj.com/forest-lodge
mobile: +27 72 386 8045
e-mail: forest-lodge@rolandpj.com

Don Libby · Guest

"Roland Paterson-Jones" <roland@rolandpj.com> wrote in message
news:bt26mk$bm8$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
[quote]"Don Lancaster" <don@tinaja.com> wrote in message
Virtually all federal alternate energy subsidies to date have been
monumental failures having the exact opposite of the intended effect.

Fossil fuels have had an unapposed reign.
[/quote]
Not true. Nuclear and hydro contribute about 1/4 of world electricity
production.

[quote]The local Calt*x refinery here in
Cape Town, which has been an obvious eye-sight contributor to winter
pollution trapped under our local winter-pattern inversion layer, is now
being fingered by a university study for the high incidence of asthma in
the
surrounding areas.
[/quote]
Yes, air pollution caused by fossil fuel combustion is a known and present
danger to human health. South Africa should begin building new PBMR nuclear
power plants as fast as possible, rather than build new coal-fired power
plants.

http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2003/june/pbmr.htm

-dl

Kimmo Klemola · Guest

Dan Bloomquist wrote:
[quote]
Apparently the Wind Industry still can>t stand on its own

Scroll on down to:

Wind Industry, Environmentalists Split on Energy Bill

http://www.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.php?prgDate=31-Dec-2003&prgId=3

Best, Dan.

[/quote]
If you compare almost any energy source with fossil energy, it seems to
be uneconomical and wrong choice. This is because of great work done
hundreds of millions of years ago. However, we need to have many sources
of energy, the more so in longer perspective. I think it is good to have
heavier taxes for fossil fuels and subsidies for etc wind. Fossil fuels
are just too easy and cheap. Let>s save some of them to the generations
to come.

Kimmo

Tom Simonds · Guest

[quote]If you compare almost any energy source with fossil energy, it seems to
be uneconomical and wrong choice. This is because of great work done
hundreds of millions of years ago. However, we need to have many sources
[/quote]
I think all we have to do is stop the massive U.S. govt. subsidies of petroleum. The $300,000,000.00 cost of the Iraq war should be added to the cost of a tank of gas. The American stupids are probably paying $10.00 for a gallon of gas - they just aren>t paying for it at the pump. Let 'em start paying for it!

On a really and truly even playing field, the clean renewables like wind, solar, etc. are actually cheaper.

Kimmo Klemola · Guest

Tom Simonds wrote:
[quote]If you compare almost any energy source with fossil energy, it seems to
be uneconomical and wrong choice. This is because of great work done
hundreds of millions of years ago. However, we need to have many sources

I think all we have to do is stop the massive U.S. govt. subsidies of petroleum. The $300,000,000.00 cost of the Iraq war should be added to the cost of a tank of gas. The American stupids are probably paying $10.00 for a gallon of gas - they just aren>t paying for it at the pump. Let 'em start paying for it!

On a really and truly even playing field, the clean renewables like wind, solar, etc. are actually cheaper.
[/quote]
Maybe you should add couple of nulls (300 000 000 000). Right, it would
be highly stupid to attack Iraq and steal their wind.

Kimmo

pochas · Guest

In article <3FF54A5C.7060609@lut.fi>, Kimmo Klemola <kklemola@lut.fi> wrote:

[quote]Dan Bloomquist wrote:

Apparently the Wind Industry still can>t stand on its own

Scroll on down to:

Wind Industry, Environmentalists Split on Energy Bill

http://www.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.php?prgDate=31-Dec-2003&prgId=3

Best, Dan.

If you compare almost any energy source with fossil energy, it seems to
be uneconomical and wrong choice. This is because of great work done
hundreds of millions of years ago. However, we need to have many sources
of energy, the more so in longer perspective. I think it is good to have
heavier taxes for fossil fuels and subsidies for etc wind. Fossil fuels
are just too easy and cheap. Let>s save some of them to the generations
to come.

[/quote]
What you mean, "we" Kimmo Sabe? (ancient American Indian expression)

pochas · Guest

In article <bt3ubp$3e4$1@pcls4.std.com>, "Tom Simonds" <tsimonds@theworld.com> wrote:

[quote]If you compare almost any energy source with fossil energy, it seems =
to=20
be uneconomical and wrong choice. This is because of great work done=20
hundreds of millions of years ago. However, we need to have many =
sources=20

I think all we have to do is stop the massive U.S. govt. subsidies of =
petroleum. The $300,000,000.00 cost of the Iraq war should be added to =
the cost of a tank of gas. The American stupids are probably paying =
$10.00 for a gallon of gas - they just aren>t paying for it at the pump. =
Let 'em start paying for it!

On a really and truly even playing field, the clean renewables like =
wind, solar, etc. are actually cheaper.
[/quote]
Now Tom, do the "stupids" really think the $300 billion spent on the war
bought them an oil supply?

Or are self - deluded Europeans completely oblivious to the realities that
motivate US policies?

The anti-Americanism so obvious in this thread is a product of the effort to
assemble the European Union from a group of otherwise healthy
democracies.

G. R. L. Cowan · Guest

Tom Simonds wrote:
[quote]
If you compare almost any energy source with fossil energy, it seems to
be uneconomical and wrong choice. This is because of great work done
hundreds of millions of years ago. However, we need to have many sources

I think all we have to do is stop the massive
U.S. govt. subsidies of petroleum.
The $300,000,000.00 cost of the Iraq war should be added
to the cost of a tank of gas. The American stupids are probably paying
$10.00 for a gallon of gas - they just aren>t paying for it at the pump.
Let 'em start paying for it!

On a really and truly even playing field,
the clean renewables like wind, solar, etc. are actually cheaper.
[/quote]

I believe solar may someday be cheaper,
but when it becomes so, commentators like Tom Simonds
will then find reasons to oppose it.

"Probably" paying US$10 per gallon, eh?
Here>s the US Bureau of Transportation Statistics --
http://tinyurl.com/zkx2 --
with an estimate for 2001 of 73 billion gallons gasoline
consumed by "Passenger car and motorcycle",
another 53 billion gallons by
"Other 2- axle 4-tire vehicle", i.e. SUVs,
and 25.5 billion gallons of diesel by "combination truck".

That and US$10 a gallon in mostly invisible payments
works out to 1.26 trillion dollars.

So virtually the whole US federal budget is spent on oil.
They could steal the money, spend it on mistresses and love-children,
but no, they just want to spring for your gasoline. Idiot.

Here>s the API, in PDF format -- http://tinyurl.com/zkxi --
saying the gasoline brought in 42.7 cents per gallon of tax,
and the diesel, 48.4 cents per gallon.

That seems to work out to US$54 billion that consumers paid
to government for gasoline, and US$12 billion for diesel,
total US$66 billion.

Now true, that>s only about four percent
of all US tax revenue. A few tens of billions more, I guess,
are taken on natural gas that is distributed to domestic furnaces,
but I haven>t found good data on that. Has anyone?

But it>s real, and it really affects behaviour -- for instance,
when it feels that certain energy technologies threaten it
and others do not, it talks enthusiastically
about the potential of those others,
"if subsidies on oil were removed".
And when it talks,
tax-funded idiots' lips and fingers move.

--- Graham Cowan
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/Paper_for_11th_CHC.doc --
fireproof fuel, real-car range, no emissions

Don Lancaster · Guest

Tom Simonds wrote:
[quote]
I think all we have to do is stop the massive U.S. govt. subsidies of petroleum.
[/quote]
There are NO U.S. govt subsidies of petroleum.
Petroleum is a major income source for the U.S. govt.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
voice: (928)428-4073 email: don@tinaja.com fax 847-574-1462

Please visit my GURU>s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com


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