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Simon McMenzie · Guest

Hi.

My hens are in an ark that I move a couple of times a week to give them
fresh grass to play with.

Are they likely to be getting enough grit from the soil for digestive
purposes, or should I supply extra?

If so, I>d rather source it naturally than buy a load in. What>s
recommended?

Regards,

Simon Mc.

Jill · Guest

"Simon McMenzie" <simon@nospam.mcmenzie.com> wrote in message
news:40226ba1$0$14218$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
[quote]Hi.

My hens are in an ark that I move a couple of times a week to give them
fresh grass to play with.

Are they likely to be getting enough grit from the soil for digestive
purposes, or should I supply extra?

[/quote]
With confined birds I would say its a good idea to supply extra in case. If
its ignored for months on end you will know they do not need it but as they
cannot go and source what they want from different areas of your garden I
would give them a little.
Good mixed poultry grit will give them the choice of the combination of
digesting granules and a calcium source.
If you get a small old dog bowl or baking dish with a couple of holes in the
bottom you can buy a kilo for 50p or less from your local feed store and put
some in there.
have fun
--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

[quote]If so, I>d rather source it naturally than buy a load in. What>s
recommended?
[/quote]

[quote]
Regards,

Simon Mc.

[/quote]

nuele · Guest

Simon McMenzie <simon@nospam.mcmenzie.com> wrote:

[quote]Hi.

My hens are in an ark that I move a couple of times a week to give them
fresh grass to play with.

Are they likely to be getting enough grit from the soil for digestive
purposes, or should I supply extra?

If so, I>d rather source it naturally than buy a load in. What>s
recommended?

Regards,

Simon Mc.
[/quote]

depends on your soil. If it>s nothing but sand, like ours here, your
birds should be fine. If it>s anything more decent than that, you should
give them grit, definitely. It>s essential. Birds may be able to digest
a part of their diet without grit, but there is a certain risk they
might get an impacted stomach, especially if they have access to hay or
other long fibres of plants.

Also, as the food passes through the digestive tract, it is transported
from the crop through the proventriculus, where the gastric juice is
added, which is disinfecting because of its acidity. Then the food
reaches the gizzard, the stomach of the bird. If enough stone grit is
present, the muscles of the gizzard will mix the content thoroughly,
which is not only important for digestion, but also for disinfecting the
food.

Birds that don>t have access to stone grit consequently are at a higher
risk of infections with bacteria, e.g. salmonella sp.

If you>re interested to see a drawing of the anatomy of a hen, and all
those "gubbinses" described above, go and see

http://www.msstate.edu/dept/poultry/pub1276.htm

As for natural sources - well, I never buy sand, I have to sweep loads
of it out of my kitchen daily! Look for someone who builds a house, or
wants to make some concrete for another purpose, and ask whether you
might have half a bucket full of the sand/gravel for your chickens. I>d
be surprised if they charged you for it!

Nuele (D)

--
to mail me, replace the fowls in my address by sap to avoid the spam
trap

Simon McMenzie · Guest

Hi Jill,

Thanks for the reply. Can I just include some grit in the feeder with their
food pellets? I>d rather do it that way so as to save on pots and pans!

Regards,

Simon.

"Jill" <farm@removethisbitkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:46uUb.386$Y%6.56743@wards.force9.net...
[quote]
"Simon McMenzie" <simon@nospam.mcmenzie.com> wrote in message
news:40226ba1$0$14218$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
Hi.

My hens are in an ark that I move a couple of times a week to give them
fresh grass to play with.

Are they likely to be getting enough grit from the soil for digestive
purposes, or should I supply extra?

With confined birds I would say its a good idea to supply extra in case.
If
its ignored for months on end you will know they do not need it but as
they
cannot go and source what they want from different areas of your garden I
would give them a little.
Good mixed poultry grit will give them the choice of the combination of
digesting granules and a calcium source.
If you get a small old dog bowl or baking dish with a couple of holes in
the
bottom you can buy a kilo for 50p or less from your local feed store and
put
some in there.
have fun
--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

If so, I>d rather source it naturally than buy a load in. What>s
recommended?

Regards,

Simon Mc.

[/quote]

Jay · Guest

"Simon McMenzie" <simon@nospam.mcmenzie.com> wrote in message
news:402b588c$0$6685$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
[quote]Hi Jill,

Thanks for the reply. Can I just include some grit in the feeder with
their
food pellets? I>d rather do it that way so as to save on pots and pans!

Regards,

Simon.

snip[/quote]

One flower pot works very well for me. I fix it to the ground with a piece
of wire bent through the holes and pushed into the ground. That way I can
see how much grit they are getting through and its always good to see their
enthusiasm when I top up the supply. I think it>s easier than mixing it into
feed.

Jay

Jill · Guest

"Simon McMenzie" <simon@nospam.mcmenzie.com> wrote in message
news:402b588c$0$6685$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
[quote]Hi Jill,

Thanks for the reply. Can I just include some grit in the feeder with
their
food pellets? I>d rather do it that way so as to save on pots and pans!

Regards,

Simon.
[/quote]
its better to let the birds take it as they need it
Its not a feed as much as a eating aid and a supplement
so sorry no saving for their sake:~))

--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

Mary Straiton · Guest

I have been following the discussion on extra grit.

My hens lay eggs with fragile shells which leads one of them to try and eat
them (she has been isolated since).

It would seem that they were short of grit although they are running on
sand.

I have given them shell grit in the past - little shells crushed up but they
refuse to eat them.

What sort of grit are you all talking about, please?

Cheers Mary

--
See my surname interests at
http://www.wags.org.au/mid/985.htm
or view my webpage
http://home.it.net.au/~mars/
"Jill" <farm@removethisbitkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:%RQWb.2401$h44.457142@stones.force9.net...
[quote]
"Simon McMenzie" <simon@nospam.mcmenzie.com> wrote in message
news:402b588c$0$6685$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
Hi Jill,

Thanks for the reply. Can I just include some grit in the feeder with
their
food pellets? I>d rather do it that way so as to save on pots and pans!

Regards,

Simon.

its better to let the birds take it as they need it
Its not a feed as much as a eating aid and a supplement
so sorry no saving for their sake:~))

--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
[/quote]

Robert Plamondon · Guest

I learned something interesting about grit a while back, that>s not widely
known. The idea that grit forms the chicken>s "teeth" is very misleading.
Actually, chickens do very well digesting whole grains and other hard feeds
without any grit in their gizzards at all.

What grit is REALLY useful for is shredding fibrous materials, like straw
and feathers, that chickens sometimes eat. So, surprisingly, it provides
insurance against their becoming crop-bound -- with grit in their gizzard,
fibrous foods pass through the gizzard in a reasonable amount of time, and a
cropful of straw bits or other fibrous material gets emptied fairly quickly.
Without the grit, the system pretty much comes to a halt. The gizzard can>t
deal with all the fibrous junk.

This is why advice and even experimental data on grit is so confusing.
Chickens don>t, as a rule, eat a lot of feathers or straw, but sometimes
they do.

I>m talking about your basic granite or quartz grit -- rocks -- that provide
no direct nutritional benefit. Calcium supplements like limestone and
oystershell apparently don>t function very well as grit, but most of the
time your chickens don>t need grit at all, so it works okay.

If your soil has gravel in it, and your birds range outside, don>t worry
about grit. My soil doesn>t have any rocks in it at all, and every once in a
while, not often, I set out store-bought grit in troughs. I keep claiming
that I>ll get a pickup load of fine gravel and just dump it in a mound at
some central point in my hen pasture, thus solving the problem for the next
fifty years or so for the cost of about two sacks of grit, but I haven>t
done it.

-- Robert

--

Robert Plamondon

36475 Norton Creek Rd, Blodgett OR 97326

robert@plamondon.com

* See the books I>m publishing, including "Success With Baby Chicks" and
"Genetics of the Fowl":
http://www.plamondon.com/nortoncreekpress.html?referrer=sn

* Sign up for my poultry tips newsletter!
http://www.plamondon.com/newsletter.html?referrer=snews

* See my Poultry Web Page:
http://www.plamondon.com/freerange.shtml?referrer=sf

Jill · Guest

"Mary Straiton" <mars@cygnus.uwa.edu.au> wrote in message
news:newscache$9xl5th$5h1$1@talen.it.net.au...
[quote]I have been following the discussion on extra grit.

My hens lay eggs with fragile shells which leads one of them to try and
eat
them (she has been isolated since).

It would seem that they were short of grit although they are running on
sand.

I have given them shell grit in the past - little shells crushed up but
they
refuse to eat them.

What sort of grit are you all talking about, please?
[/quote]
At your feed store you should be able to purchase or order mixed poultry
grit
This will have a mixture of grits and sources of calcium which will provide
the birds with the resources for improved digestion of a mixed diet and
sources of calcium in case of dietary shortage
If you put it in a container in their run - [make some holes in the bottom
to let any rain run out] and let them take it as and when they want it. It
may only be sometimes that they have a shortage.
They may not use much
What kind of birds and what age are they ?
Thin shells can also be genetic and / or age related which is not so easy
to alter with diet obviously
HTH

--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
[quote]
Cheers Mary

--
See my surname interests at
http://www.wags.org.au/mid/985.htm
or view my webpage
http://home.it.net.au/~mars/
"Jill" <farm@removethisbitkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:%RQWb.2401$h44.457142@stones.force9.net...

"Simon McMenzie" <simon@nospam.mcmenzie.com> wrote in message
news:402b588c$0$6685$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
Hi Jill,

Thanks for the reply. Can I just include some grit in the feeder with
their
food pellets? I>d rather do it that way so as to save on pots and
pans!

Regards,

Simon.

its better to let the birds take it as they need it
Its not a feed as much as a eating aid and a supplement
so sorry no saving for their sake:~))

--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

[/quote]

Guest · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Will they need extra grit?

"Mary Straiton" <mars@cygnus.uwa.edu.au> wrote:

[quote]I have been following the discussion on extra grit.

My hens lay eggs with fragile shells which leads one of them to try and eat
them (she has been isolated since).

It would seem that they were short of grit although they are running on
sand.
[/quote]
Mary,

I think it worthwhile to explain that there are two kinds of things
commonly referred to as grit.

First, there is true grit. This is hard things made of sand and
quartz chips and stuff like that. This is what goes into the gizzard
and is used to grind up the chicken>s food. When chickens are fed a
commercial ration in pellet or granule form, they really don>t need
much grit to chew up their food because its really already ground up.
They need grit to grind up hard seeds, bones, insect shells, etc.
True grit has no real nutritional value in of itself.

Then there are calcium products. Things like oyster shell have also
been referred to as grit, but this is not really what it is. However,
being that chickens are resourceful, they can use oyster shell to
grind up their food as well. The difference is that oyster shell does
have nutritional value. It contains calcium carbonate. The hens use
this to make strong egg shells.

So if your hens are getting crop bound then you need some true grit.
If you are getting lots of thin shelled eggs, then you need calcium.
Caclium comes in the form of oyster shell and also in crushed
limestone form. Crushed limestone is better because it is easier to
swallow. I have also heard of professional raisers feedng layers
chunks of drywall. I, myself, keep a supply of calcium pills that I
give to particular hens that are having trouble. Older hens sometimes
have a harder time processing calcium into shells and need an extra
boost that younger ones don>t really need.

Dennis.

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B>s are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

Charles Francis · Guest

In article <newscache$9xl5th$5h1$1@talen.it.net.au>, Mary Straiton
<mars@cygnus.uwa.edu.au> writes
[quote]I have been following the discussion on extra grit.

My hens lay eggs with fragile shells which leads one of them to try and eat
them (she has been isolated since).

It would seem that they were short of grit although they are running on
sand.

I have given them shell grit in the past - little shells crushed up but they
refuse to eat them.

What sort of grit are you all talking about, please?

You probably don>t need grit if on sand, though it never hurts. Flint[/quote]
grit is exactly that and will not provide calcium to improve eggshell.
If you use just oystershell you can cause a mineral imbalance, so we
prefer calcified seaweed.

Regards

--
Charles Francis

Offbreed · Guest

Charles Francis wrote:

[quote]You probably don>t need grit if on sand, though it never hurts.
[/quote]
Back during GW2, US troops tried to use chickens as poison gas
detectors, but had trouble keeping the birds alive because of sand
impaction of the gizzard (IIRC). Then again, most of the troops were
city folk, with no idea of how to keep chickens alive.

Anybody remember what was going wrong?

(WITH THE CHICKENS).

Charles Francis · Guest

In article <_K2dnWOia_cwI67dRVn-uA@scnresearch.com>, Offbreed
<Offbreed_106@hotmail.com> writes
[quote]Charles Francis wrote:

You probably don>t need grit if on sand, though it never hurts.

Back during GW2, US troops tried to use chickens as poison gas
detectors, but had trouble keeping the birds alive because of sand
impaction of the gizzard (IIRC). Then again, most of the troops were
city folk, with no idea of how to keep chickens alive.

I wish I hadn>t said that. I had a course sand in mind, but even that[/quote]
could be too fine for chickens. Doves seem to like sharp sand. Fine sand
doesn>t sound at all healthy. I should certainly offer grit.

Regards

--
Charles Francis

Jill · Guest

"Offbreed" <Offbreed_106@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_K2dnWOia_cwI67dRVn-uA@scnresearch.com...
[quote]Charles Francis wrote:

You probably don>t need grit if on sand, though it never hurts.

Back during GW2, US troops tried to use chickens as poison gas
detectors, but had trouble keeping the birds alive because of sand
impaction of the gizzard (IIRC). Then again, most of the troops were
city folk, with no idea of how to keep chickens alive.

Anybody remember what was going wrong?

(WITH THE CHICKENS).
[/quote]
have not heard of this - or looked it up
but is it possible that a lack of food meant that the proportions of sand to
food became unbalanced as birds tried to find sustenance??
Sand can vary a great deal in its fine/coarseness so one cannot make
generalisations about its usefulness to birds
Its availability also depends a great deal on teh vegetation cover for
instance
Some birds simply prefer to utilitise the coarser grits in the "mixed
poultry grit" in general they are pretty good at knowing what they need for
digestion

--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

>

Robert Plamondon · Guest

[quote]Back during GW2, US troops tried to use chickens as poison gas
detectors, but had trouble keeping the birds alive because of sand
impaction of the gizzard (IIRC). Then again, most of the troops were
city folk, with no idea of how to keep chickens alive.
[/quote]
I>ve never heard of "sand impaction," and I>ve read some research about
using sand mixed with chicken feed as a grit substitute, and the amount of
sand you can put in is amazingly high. So that doesn>t sound right to me.

A lot of the chickens probably died of "let>s have a chicken dinner" or "I>m
tired of lugging this darn chicken around." In WWII, it took no time at all
for the average GI to throw his gas mask away. Hard to believe the chickens
would have lasted much longer.

-- Robert
--

Robert Plamondon

36475 Norton Creek Rd, Blodgett OR 97326

robert@plamondon.com

* See the books I>m publishing, including "Success With Baby Chicks" and
"Genetics of the Fowl":
http://www.plamondon.com/nortoncreekpress.html?referrer=sn

* Sign up for my poultry tips newsletter!
http://www.plamondon.com/newsletter.html?referrer=snews

* See my Poultry Web Page:
http://www.plamondon.com/freerange.shtml?referrer=sf


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