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AZDuffman
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 Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
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On Nov 18, 9:01 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]AZDuffman <srduffy1...@gmail.com> wrote
Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote
You can almost rate the quality of a post by the amount of virus
infections it attracts. And this one about Iacocca is a good example.
Lee Iacocca was a very smart man and obviously still is.
He was leader of an industry that just put the chrome in a different spot and
called it "all-new" while letting a 90% market share (combined) fall to <50% today.
Yes, but its distinctly arguable that anyone could ever have avoided that outcome.
While ever their costs were MUCH higher than the Japs, they were doomed.
Thats the main reason the market share went from 90% to 50%
[/quote]
Detroit cried in the 70s and 80s that yen-exchange rate was to blame.
The yen went from 260 to <130 in a few years--meaning that the price
in dollar terms should have doubled. So the japanese built factories
here. Then Detroit cried about "legacy costs"--they cannot compete
because of PRODUCT.
How do you have all the engeneering and such that GM had years ago and
let some then-little companies steal market segment after market
segment?
Maybe they will declare capter 11 and tear up the UAW contracts but it
will not help. Most of the product is bad and the workers have bad
attitudes. |
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Rod Speed
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
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AZDuffman <srduffy1126@gmail.com> wrote
[quote]Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1...@gmail.com> wrote
Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote
You can almost rate the quality of a post by the amount of virus
infections it attracts. And this one about Iacocca is a good
example. Lee Iacocca was a very smart man and obviously still is.
He was leader of an industry that just put the chrome in a
different spot and called it "all-new" while letting a 90% market
share (combined) fall to <50% today.
Yes, but its distinctly arguable that anyone could ever have avoided that outcome.
While ever their costs were MUCH higher than the Japs, they were doomed.
Thats the main reason the market share went from 90% to 50%
Detroit cried in the 70s and 80s that yen-exchange rate was to blame.
[/quote]
And when that was fixed, in the Plaza Agreement, the Japs STILL
dominated the market, particularly with those who cared about the
quality of the cars they bought, so that was clearly just another Detroit lie.
[quote]The yen went from 260 to <130 in a few years--meaning that the price in
dollar terms should have doubled. So the japanese built factories here.
[/quote]
You>ve got that last backwards. The only reason they built factorys in
north america was because of the protection the US car industry had.
[quote]Then Detroit cried about "legacy costs"--they cannot compete because of PRODUCT.
[/quote]
Its more complicated than that. Their much higher costs imposed by the stupid unions
is the reason they couldnt make money on cheap quality cars like Honda etc could.
[quote]How do you have all the engeneering and such that GM had years ago and
let some then-little companies steal market segment after market segment?
[/quote]
Thats partly because of the stupid costs imposed on them by the unions,
and partly because there are much better places to work for good engineers
that the car industry, most obviously the aircraft industry etc. The Japs dont
have anything like the same opportunitys for their best engineers.
[quote]Maybe they will declare capter 11 and tear up the UAW contracts but it will not help.
[/quote]
It would help with their costs and make it possible to sell cheap quality small
cars at a profit if it wasnt for the fact that chaper 11 would cripple their access
to the immense amount of capital required to change their product line, let alone
develop decent hybrids etc and hardly anyone will buy an expensive product like
a car from an company thats likely to go bust during the life of the car.
The short story is that they>re doomed. Not that that will stop the DemoPrats pouring billions
down that rat hole, just because thats where so many of those who vote for them 'work'
[quote]Most of the product is bad and the workers have bad attitudes.
[/quote]
And the industry is doomed. Its never going to be able to compete with Japan and Korea now.
And if China starts making cars for export, they>re completely fucked forever. |
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Michael Coburn
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
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On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 06:01:21 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
[quote]AZDuffman <srduffy1126@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1...@gmail.com> wrote
Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote
You can almost rate the quality of a post by the amount of virus
infections it attracts. And this one about Iacocca is a good
example. Lee Iacocca was a very smart man and obviously still is.
He was leader of an industry that just put the chrome in a different
spot and called it "all-new" while letting a 90% market share
(combined) fall to <50% today.
Yes, but its distinctly arguable that anyone could ever have avoided
that outcome.
While ever their costs were MUCH higher than the Japs, they were
doomed.
Thats the main reason the market share went from 90% to 50%
Detroit cried in the 70s and 80s that yen-exchange rate was to blame.
And when that was fixed, in the Plaza Agreement, the Japs STILL
dominated the market, particularly with those who cared about the
quality of the cars they bought, so that was clearly just another
Detroit lie.
The yen went from 260 to <130 in a few years--meaning that the price in
dollar terms should have doubled. So the japanese built factories
here.
You>ve got that last backwards. The only reason they built factorys in
north america was because of the protection the US car industry had.
Then Detroit cried about "legacy costs"--they cannot compete because of
PRODUCT.
Its more complicated than that. Their much higher costs imposed by the
stupid unions is the reason they couldnt make money on cheap quality
cars like Honda etc could.
How do you have all the engeneering and such that GM had years ago and
let some then-little companies steal market segment after market
segment?
Thats partly because of the stupid costs imposed on them by the unions,
and partly because there are much better places to work for good
engineers that the car industry, most obviously the aircraft industry
etc. The Japs dont have anything like the same opportunitys for their
best engineers.
Maybe they will declare capter 11 and tear up the UAW contracts but it
will not help.
It would help with their costs and make it possible to sell cheap
quality small cars at a profit if it wasnt for the fact that chaper 11
would cripple their access to the immense amount of capital required to
change their product line, let alone develop decent hybrids etc and
hardly anyone will buy an expensive product like a car from an company
thats likely to go bust during the life of the car.
The short story is that they>re doomed. Not that that will stop the
DemoPrats pouring billions down that rat hole, just because thats where
so many of those who vote for them 'work'
Most of the product is bad and the workers have bad attitudes.
And the industry is doomed. Its never going to be able to compete with
Japan and Korea now.
And if China starts making cars for export, they>re completely fucked
forever.
[/quote]
It is not necessary to compete with the Asians. That is a myth that has
been perpetrated on the people of this country for a very long time. It
was certainly not necessary when oil was $10 a barrel. Now that oil is
$60 a barrel (right about where it should be) then we should be spending
a lot of our innovative juices on getting off the oil teat. And this is
because the oil is the only real problem for us. If we need not import
anything then we need not compete. That should be obvious to anyone that
actually takes the time to think about it.
If we need not compete then the economic question becomes one of
distribution as opposed to "winning" some sort of "war". If the UAW is
getting too large a share of the natural abundance of the nation then
they should be curtailed just as the banks or the real estate people
should be curtailed. But that is the only issue. If the Asians want to
sell cars here then an import duty can be used to reduce income taxes or
sales taxes. We need not pay so much in other taxes and in this way the
distribution of real cost is managed. Many times I see people claiming
that import duties are paid by the consumer. That is true only to the
extent that the import duties are an additional cost on the consumer that
is not offset by a tax break or a debt break somewhere else. The claim
is terribly short sighted. |
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Rod Speed
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
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Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
[quote]Rod Speed wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1126@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1...@gmail.com> wrote
Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote
Lee Iacocca was a very smart man and obviously still is.
He was leader of an industry that just put the chrome in a
different spot and called it "all-new" while letting a 90%
market share (combined) fall to <50% today.
Yes, but its distinctly arguable that anyone could ever have avoided that outcome.
While ever their costs were MUCH higher than the Japs, they were doomed.
Thats the main reason the market share went from 90% to 50%
Detroit cried in the 70s and 80s that yen-exchange rate was to blame.
And when that was fixed, in the Plaza Agreement, the Japs STILL dominated
the market, particularly with those who cared about the quality of the cars they
bought, so that was clearly just another Detroit lie.
The yen went from 260 to <130 in a few years--meaning that the price in
dollar terms should have doubled. So the japanese built factories here.
You>ve got that last backwards. The only reason they built factorys in
north america was because of the protection the US car industry had.
Then Detroit cried about "legacy costs"--they cannot compete because of PRODUCT.
Its more complicated than that. Their much higher costs imposed by
the stupid unions is the reason they couldnt make money on cheap
quality cars like Honda etc could.
How do you have all the engeneering and such that GM had years ago and
let some then-little companies steal market segment after market segment?
Thats partly because of the stupid costs imposed on them by the unions,
and partly because there are much better places to work for good engineers
that the car industry, most obviously the aircraft industry etc. The Japs dont
have anything like the same opportunitys for their best engineers.
Maybe they will declare capter 11 and tear up the UAW contracts but it will not help.
It would help with their costs and make it possible to sell cheap
quality small cars at a profit if it wasnt for the fact that chaper
11 would cripple their access to the immense amount of capital
required to change their product line, let alone develop decent
hybrids etc and hardly anyone will buy an expensive product like a
car from an company thats likely to go bust during the life of the car.
The short story is that they>re doomed. Not that that will stop
the DemoPrats pouring billions down that rat hole, just because
thats where so many of those who vote for them 'work'
Most of the product is bad and the workers have bad attitudes.
And the industry is doomed. Its never going to be able to compete with Japan and Korea now.
And if China starts making cars for export, they>re completely fucked forever.
It is not necessary to compete with the Asians.
[/quote]
Wrong, as always.
[quote]That is a myth that has been perpetrated on the people of this country for a very long time.
[/quote]
Taint a myth, look at the sales of Jap and Korean cars sometime.
[quote]It was certainly not necessary when oil was $10 a barrel.
[/quote]
Wrong, as always. Thats the reason the US car industry is about to go bust.
[quote]Now that oil is $60 a barrel (right about where it should be) then we
should be spending a lot of our innovative juices on getting off the oil teat.
[/quote]
Not even possible.
[quote]And this is because the oil is the only real problem for us.
[/quote]
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
[quote]If we need not import anything then we need not compete.
[/quote]
Not even possible.
[quote]That should be obvious to anyone that actually takes the time to think about it.
[/quote]
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually
possible to a country the size of the US to not import anything at all.
[quote]If we need not compete
[/quote]
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually
possible to a country the size of the US to not need to compete.
[quote]then the economic question becomes one of
distribution as opposed to "winning" some sort of "war".
[/quote]
You might as well mindlessly argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
[quote]If the UAW is getting too large a share of the natural abundance of the nation
[/quote]
Corse they are.
[quote]then they should be curtailed just as the banks or the real estate people should be curtailed.
[/quote]
Soorree, comrade, centrally planned economys just dont work.
[quote]But that is the only issue.
[/quote]
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
[quote]If the Asians want to sell cars here then an import duty can be used to reduce income taxes or sales taxes.
[/quote]
And they will impose those on US exports, fuckwit.
[quote]We need not pay so much in other taxes and in this way the distribution of real cost is managed.
[/quote]
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
[quote]Many times I see people claiming that import duties are paid by the consumer.
[/quote]
Corse they are.
[quote]That is true only to the extent that the import duties are an additional cost on
the consumer that is not offset by a tax break or a debt break somewhere else.
[/quote]
Not even possible.
[quote]The claim is terribly short sighted.
[/quote]
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever. |
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SORR Point
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:13 am Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
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|
"AZDuffman" <srduffy1126@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b83aab8f-18be-473a-b74c-32e8f95676f9@c22g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 18, 9:01 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]AZDuffman <srduffy1...@gmail.com> wrote
Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote
You can almost rate the quality of a post by the amount of virus
infections it attracts. And this one about Iacocca is a good example.
Lee Iacocca was a very smart man and obviously still is.
He was leader of an industry that just put the chrome in a different
spot and
called it "all-new" while letting a 90% market share (combined) fall to
50% today.
Yes, but its distinctly arguable that anyone could ever have avoided that
outcome.
While ever their costs were MUCH higher than the Japs, they were doomed.
Thats the main reason the market share went from 90% to 50%
[/quote]
Detroit cried in the 70s and 80s that yen-exchange rate was to blame.
The yen went from 260 to <130 in a few years--meaning that the price
in dollar terms should have doubled. So the japanese built factories
here. Then Detroit cried about "legacy costs"--they cannot compete
because of PRODUCT.
How do you have all the engeneering and such that GM had years ago and
let some then-little companies steal market segment after market
segment?
Maybe they will declare capter 11 and tear up the UAW contracts but it
will not help. Most of the product is bad and the workers have bad
attitudes.
---------------------------------------------------
Sean:
It>s a well known fact by anyone with a basic understanding of human
psychology and business/people management skills, that the responsibility
for workers attitudes belongs 100% to the EMPLOYER ... and no one else.
Because no one EVER gets a job, or goes to work any day, to do a bad job.
Anyone who suggests otherwise is simply ignorant of the truth, or has some
serious attitude/ego problems themselves, and shouldn>t be allowed to get
into a position where they are responsible for employees.
Unfortunately that happens in spades all over the world as well as America. |
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Michael Coburn
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:47 am Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
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|
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:37:35 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
[quote]Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1126@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1...@gmail.com> wrote
Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote
Lee Iacocca was a very smart man and obviously still is.
He was leader of an industry that just put the chrome in a
different spot and called it "all-new" while letting a 90% market
share (combined) fall to <50% today.
Yes, but its distinctly arguable that anyone could ever have avoided
that outcome.
While ever their costs were MUCH higher than the Japs, they were
doomed.
Thats the main reason the market share went from 90% to 50%
Detroit cried in the 70s and 80s that yen-exchange rate was to blame.
And when that was fixed, in the Plaza Agreement, the Japs STILL
dominated the market, particularly with those who cared about the
quality of the cars they bought, so that was clearly just another
Detroit lie.
The yen went from 260 to <130 in a few years--meaning that the price
in dollar terms should have doubled. So the japanese built factories
here.
You>ve got that last backwards. The only reason they built factorys in
north america was because of the protection the US car industry had.
Then Detroit cried about "legacy costs"--they cannot compete because
of PRODUCT.
Its more complicated than that. Their much higher costs imposed by the
stupid unions is the reason they couldnt make money on cheap quality
cars like Honda etc could.
How do you have all the engeneering and such that GM had years ago
and let some then-little companies steal market segment after market
segment?
Thats partly because of the stupid costs imposed on them by the
unions, and partly because there are much better places to work for
good engineers that the car industry, most obviously the aircraft
industry etc. The Japs dont have anything like the same opportunitys
for their best engineers.
Maybe they will declare capter 11 and tear up the UAW contracts but
it will not help.
It would help with their costs and make it possible to sell cheap
quality small cars at a profit if it wasnt for the fact that chaper 11
would cripple their access to the immense amount of capital required
to change their product line, let alone develop decent hybrids etc and
hardly anyone will buy an expensive product like a car from an company
thats likely to go bust during the life of the car.
The short story is that they>re doomed. Not that that will stop the
DemoPrats pouring billions down that rat hole, just because thats
where so many of those who vote for them 'work'
Most of the product is bad and the workers have bad attitudes.
And the industry is doomed. Its never going to be able to compete with
Japan and Korea now.
And if China starts making cars for export, they>re completely fucked
forever.
[/quote]
I can tell when I have written a really good post. I simply measure the
virus infections. I will comment more on anything worthwhile from the
virus at the end.
[quote]It is not necessary to compete with the Asians.
Wrong, as always.
That is a myth that has been perpetrated on the people of this country
for a very long time.
Taint a myth, look at the sales of Jap and Korean cars sometime.
It was certainly not necessary when oil was $10 a barrel.
Wrong, as always. Thats the reason the US car industry is about to go
bust.
Now that oil is $60 a barrel (right about where it should be) then we
should be spending a lot of our innovative juices on getting off the
oil teat.
Not even possible.
And this is because the oil is the only real problem for us.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
If we need not import anything then we need not compete.
Not even possible.
That should be obvious to anyone that actually takes the time to think
about it.
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually possible
to a country the size of the US to not import anything at all.
If we need not compete
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually possible
to a country the size of the US to not need to compete.
then the economic question becomes one of distribution as opposed to
"winning" some sort of "war".
You might as well mindlessly argue about how many angels can dance on
the head of a pin.
If the UAW is getting too large a share of the natural abundance of the
nation
Corse they are.
then they should be curtailed just as the banks or the real estate
people should be curtailed.
Soorree, comrade, centrally planned economys just dont work.
But that is the only issue.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
If the Asians want to sell cars here then an import duty can be used to
reduce income taxes or sales taxes.
And they will impose those on US exports, fuckwit.
We need not pay so much in other taxes and in this way the distribution
of real cost is managed.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
Many times I see people claiming that import duties are paid by the
consumer.
Corse they are.
That is true only to the extent that the import duties are an
additional cost on the consumer that is not offset by a tax break or a
debt break somewhere else.
Not even possible.
The claim is terribly short sighted.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
[/quote]
As a matter of fact it is the location and size of the USA that makes it
capable of sustaining itself without trade. That is not to say that the
US should not trade. It is only to say that trade is not essential.
Japan must import both oil and steel and almost all of the rest in order
to manufacture automobiles. That is not a choice. It is a must. China
does not have adequate natural resources to support its people but in the
poorest of conditions. We simply do not have these problems but for our
own oil gluttony. It is not as though we must have oil in order to live
well or trade. It is, that we must trade in order to have oil to waste.
One of the problems is that if we stop importing so much oil then the
Chinese and the Indians will be able to dramatically increase their
economic production and living standards very quickly. It is very much
like we must continue to suck up great amounts of oil or they will "get
us". |
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SORR Point
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
|
|
"Michael Coburn" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:gg251i11nt7@news1.newsguy.com...
[quote]On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:37:35 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1126@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1...@gmail.com> wrote
Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote
Lee Iacocca was a very smart man and obviously still is.
He was leader of an industry that just put the chrome in a
different spot and called it "all-new" while letting a 90% market
share (combined) fall to <50% today.
Yes, but its distinctly arguable that anyone could ever have avoided
that outcome.
While ever their costs were MUCH higher than the Japs, they were
doomed.
Thats the main reason the market share went from 90% to 50%
Detroit cried in the 70s and 80s that yen-exchange rate was to blame.
And when that was fixed, in the Plaza Agreement, the Japs STILL
dominated the market, particularly with those who cared about the
quality of the cars they bought, so that was clearly just another
Detroit lie.
The yen went from 260 to <130 in a few years--meaning that the price
in dollar terms should have doubled. So the japanese built factories
here.
You>ve got that last backwards. The only reason they built factorys in
north america was because of the protection the US car industry had.
Then Detroit cried about "legacy costs"--they cannot compete because
of PRODUCT.
Its more complicated than that. Their much higher costs imposed by the
stupid unions is the reason they couldnt make money on cheap quality
cars like Honda etc could.
How do you have all the engeneering and such that GM had years ago
and let some then-little companies steal market segment after market
segment?
Thats partly because of the stupid costs imposed on them by the
unions, and partly because there are much better places to work for
good engineers that the car industry, most obviously the aircraft
industry etc. The Japs dont have anything like the same opportunitys
for their best engineers.
Maybe they will declare capter 11 and tear up the UAW contracts but
it will not help.
It would help with their costs and make it possible to sell cheap
quality small cars at a profit if it wasnt for the fact that chaper 11
would cripple their access to the immense amount of capital required
to change their product line, let alone develop decent hybrids etc and
hardly anyone will buy an expensive product like a car from an company
thats likely to go bust during the life of the car.
The short story is that they>re doomed. Not that that will stop the
DemoPrats pouring billions down that rat hole, just because thats
where so many of those who vote for them 'work'
Most of the product is bad and the workers have bad attitudes.
And the industry is doomed. Its never going to be able to compete with
Japan and Korea now.
And if China starts making cars for export, they>re completely fucked
forever.
I can tell when I have written a really good post. I simply measure the
virus infections. I will comment more on anything worthwhile from the
virus at the end.
It is not necessary to compete with the Asians.
Wrong, as always.
That is a myth that has been perpetrated on the people of this country
for a very long time.
Taint a myth, look at the sales of Jap and Korean cars sometime.
It was certainly not necessary when oil was $10 a barrel.
Wrong, as always. Thats the reason the US car industry is about to go
bust.
Now that oil is $60 a barrel (right about where it should be) then we
should be spending a lot of our innovative juices on getting off the
oil teat.
Not even possible.
And this is because the oil is the only real problem for us.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
If we need not import anything then we need not compete.
Not even possible.
That should be obvious to anyone that actually takes the time to think
about it.
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually possible
to a country the size of the US to not import anything at all.
If we need not compete
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually possible
to a country the size of the US to not need to compete.
then the economic question becomes one of distribution as opposed to
"winning" some sort of "war".
You might as well mindlessly argue about how many angels can dance on
the head of a pin.
If the UAW is getting too large a share of the natural abundance of the
nation
Corse they are.
then they should be curtailed just as the banks or the real estate
people should be curtailed.
Soorree, comrade, centrally planned economys just dont work.
But that is the only issue.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
If the Asians want to sell cars here then an import duty can be used to
reduce income taxes or sales taxes.
And they will impose those on US exports, fuckwit.
We need not pay so much in other taxes and in this way the distribution
of real cost is managed.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
Many times I see people claiming that import duties are paid by the
consumer.
Corse they are.
That is true only to the extent that the import duties are an
additional cost on the consumer that is not offset by a tax break or a
debt break somewhere else.
Not even possible.
The claim is terribly short sighted.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
As a matter of fact it is the location and size of the USA that makes it
capable of sustaining itself without trade. That is not to say that the
US should not trade. It is only to say that trade is not essential.
Japan must import both oil and steel and almost all of the rest in order
to manufacture automobiles. That is not a choice. It is a must. China
does not have adequate natural resources to support its people but in the
poorest of conditions. We simply do not have these problems but for our
own oil gluttony. It is not as though we must have oil in order to live
well or trade. It is, that we must trade in order to have oil to waste.
One of the problems is that if we stop importing so much oil then the
Chinese and the Indians will be able to dramatically increase their
economic production and living standards very quickly. It is very much
like we must continue to suck up great amounts of oil or they will "get
us".
[/quote]
yep, a manipulated economic war [ WW3 ] has been going on for ages. It>s an
entrenched *us vs them* mentaility, and it only exists primarily in the
collective minds of americans, and not the rest of the world in general,
because their self-esteem is not based upon a *dream* but upon reality of
Life to a greater degree.
America used to be like China is now, working hard to better themselves and
lift the quality of life for all their people. It>s a positive progressive
goal they are working towards, not a negative inward looking with-holding
insecure one.
At some point in america that changed to a must being *better than* the rest
of the world, and no matter what the cost, or harm done to others. There was
a paradigm attitudinal shift that took decades to take root and flourish.
The 2008 financial meltdown and the now arrived decade long Greatest
Depression is an outcome of that, it>s as simple and as logical as basic
math.
anyway, i appreciate your dte pov michael.
cheers |
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| Back to top |
Rod Speed
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
|
|
Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
[quote]Rod Speed wrote
Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1126@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1...@gmail.com> wrote
Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote
Lee Iacocca was a very smart man and obviously still is.
He was leader of an industry that just put the chrome in a
different spot and called it "all-new" while letting a 90%
market share (combined) fall to <50% today.
Yes, but its distinctly arguable that anyone could ever have avoided that outcome.
While ever their costs were MUCH higher than the Japs, they were doomed.
Thats the main reason the market share went from 90% to 50%
Detroit cried in the 70s and 80s that yen-exchange rate was to blame.
And when that was fixed, in the Plaza Agreement, the Japs STILL
dominated the market, particularly with those who cared about the
quality of the cars they bought, so that was clearly just another Detroit lie.
The yen went from 260 to <130 in a few years--meaning that the
price in dollar terms should have doubled. So the japanese built
factories here.
You>ve got that last backwards. The only reason they built factorys in
north america was because of the protection the US car industry had.
Then Detroit cried about "legacy costs"--they cannot compete because of PRODUCT.
Its more complicated than that. Their much higher costs imposed by
the stupid unions is the reason they couldnt make money on cheap
quality cars like Honda etc could.
How do you have all the engeneering and such that GM had years ago and
let some then-little companies steal market segment after market segment?
Thats partly because of the stupid costs imposed on them by the
unions, and partly because there are much better places to work
for good engineers that the car industry, most obviously the aircraft
industry etc. The Japs dont have anything like the same
opportunitys for their best engineers.
Maybe they will declare capter 11 and tear up the UAW contracts but it will not help.
It would help with their costs and make it possible to sell cheap
quality small cars at a profit if it wasnt for the fact that
chaper 11 would cripple their access to the immense amount of
capital required to change their product line, let alone develop
decent hybrids etc and hardly anyone will buy an expensive product
like a car from an company thats likely to go bust during the life
of the car.
The short story is that they>re doomed. Not that that will stop the
DemoPrats pouring billions down that rat hole, just because thats
where so many of those who vote for them 'work'
Most of the product is bad and the workers have bad attitudes.
And the industry is doomed. Its never going to be able to compete with Japan and Korea now.
And if China starts making cars for export, they>re completely fucked forever.
[/quote]
<reams of your desperate puerile attempts to bullshit your way out of your
predicament that fools absolutely no one at all, flushed where it belongs>
[quote]It is not necessary to compete with the Asians.
Wrong, as always.
That is a myth that has been perpetrated on the people of this country for a very long time.
Taint a myth, look at the sales of Jap and Korean cars sometime.
It was certainly not necessary when oil was $10 a barrel.
Wrong, as always. Thats the reason the US car industry is about to go bust.
Now that oil is $60 a barrel (right about where it should be) then we
should be spending a lot of our innovative juices on getting off the oil teat.
Not even possible.
[/quote]
At least not with anything like the lifestyle so many americans demand, anyway.
[quote]And this is because the oil is the only real problem for us.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
If we need not import anything then we need not compete.
Not even possible.
That should be obvious to anyone that actually takes the time to think about it.
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually possible
to a country the size of the US to not import anything at all.
If we need not compete
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually
possible to a country the size of the US to not need to compete.
then the economic question becomes one of distribution as opposed to "winning" some sort of "war".
You might as well mindlessly argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
If the UAW is getting too large a share of the natural abundance of the nation
Corse they are.
then they should be curtailed just as the banks or the real estate people should be curtailed.
Soorree, comrade, centrally planned economys just dont work.
But that is the only issue.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
If the Asians want to sell cars here then an import duty
can be used to reduce income taxes or sales taxes.
And they will impose those on US exports, fuckwit.
We need not pay so much in other taxes and in this way the distribution of real cost is managed.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
Many times I see people claiming that import duties are paid by the consumer.
Corse they are.
That is true only to the extent that the import duties
are an additional cost on the consumer that is not
offset by a tax break or a debt break somewhere else.
Not even possible.
The claim is terribly short sighted.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
As a matter of fact it is the location and size of the USA
that makes it capable of sustaining itself without trade.
[/quote]
Not with anything like the lifestyle that americans demand.
It wouldnt even be possible to be completely independant of the rest of the world
on energy alone, let alone produce anything like enough transport fuel without trade.
Even if the vast bulk of energy came from nukes and everyone rode
bicycles, you clowns would STILL have to import the fuel for those nukes.
And there is no way that american voters will accept no cars at all.
[quote]That is not to say that the US should not trade. It is only to say that trade is not essential.
[/quote]
It is for anything like the lifestyle that so many americans demand.
[quote]Japan must import both oil and steel and almost all of the
rest in order to manufacture automobiles. That is not a choice.
It is a must. China does not have adequate natural resources
to support its people but in the poorest of conditions.
[/quote]
Just as true of the USA.
[quote]We simply do not have these problems but for our own oil gluttony.
[/quote]
Pity there is no viable alternative that would produce anything
like the lifestyle that so many of you clowns demand.
[quote]It is not as though we must have oil in order to live well or trade.
[/quote]
It is essential for transport tho.
[quote]It is, that we must trade in order to have oil to waste.
[/quote]
Yep, and the vast bulk of americans wont be changing to bicycles, you watch.
[quote]One of the problems is that if we stop importing so much oil then the Chinese and the Indians
will be able to dramatically increase their economic production and living standards very quickly.
[/quote]
Wrong, as always. They would have a problem with what they currently export to the US.
[quote]It is very much like we must continue to suck up great amounts of oil or they will "get us".
[/quote]
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever. |
|
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| Back to top |
Michael Coburn
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:51:57 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
[quote]Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1126@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1...@gmail.com> wrote
Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote
Lee Iacocca was a very smart man and obviously still is.
He was leader of an industry that just put the chrome in a
different spot and called it "all-new" while letting a 90% market
share (combined) fall to <50% today.
Yes, but its distinctly arguable that anyone could ever have
avoided that outcome.
While ever their costs were MUCH higher than the Japs, they were
doomed.
Thats the main reason the market share went from 90% to 50%
Detroit cried in the 70s and 80s that yen-exchange rate was to
blame.
And when that was fixed, in the Plaza Agreement, the Japs STILL
dominated the market, particularly with those who cared about the
quality of the cars they bought, so that was clearly just another
Detroit lie.
The yen went from 260 to <130 in a few years--meaning that the
price in dollar terms should have doubled. So the japanese built
factories here.
You>ve got that last backwards. The only reason they built factorys
in north america was because of the protection the US car industry
had.
Then Detroit cried about "legacy costs"--they cannot compete
because of PRODUCT.
Its more complicated than that. Their much higher costs imposed by
the stupid unions is the reason they couldnt make money on cheap
quality cars like Honda etc could.
How do you have all the engeneering and such that GM had years ago
and let some then-little companies steal market segment after
market segment?
Thats partly because of the stupid costs imposed on them by the
unions, and partly because there are much better places to work for
good engineers that the car industry, most obviously the aircraft
industry etc. The Japs dont have anything like the same opportunitys
for their best engineers.
Maybe they will declare capter 11 and tear up the UAW contracts but
it will not help.
It would help with their costs and make it possible to sell cheap
quality small cars at a profit if it wasnt for the fact that chaper
11 would cripple their access to the immense amount of capital
required to change their product line, let alone develop decent
hybrids etc and hardly anyone will buy an expensive product like a
car from an company thats likely to go bust during the life of the
car.
The short story is that they>re doomed. Not that that will stop the
DemoPrats pouring billions down that rat hole, just because thats
where so many of those who vote for them 'work'
Most of the product is bad and the workers have bad attitudes.
And the industry is doomed. Its never going to be able to compete
with Japan and Korea now.
And if China starts making cars for export, they>re completely
fucked forever.
reams of your desperate puerile attempts to bullshit your way out of
your predicament that fools absolutely no one at all, flushed where it
belongs
It is not necessary to compete with the Asians.
Wrong, as always.
That is a myth that has been perpetrated on the people of this
country for a very long time.
Taint a myth, look at the sales of Jap and Korean cars sometime.
It was certainly not necessary when oil was $10 a barrel.
Wrong, as always. Thats the reason the US car industry is about to go
bust.
Now that oil is $60 a barrel (right about where it should be) then we
should be spending a lot of our innovative juices on getting off the
oil teat.
Not even possible.
At least not with anything like the lifestyle so many americans demand,
anyway.
And this is because the oil is the only real problem for us.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
If we need not import anything then we need not compete.
Not even possible.
That should be obvious to anyone that actually takes the time to
think about it.
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually
possible to a country the size of the US to not import anything at
all.
If we need not compete
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually
possible to a country the size of the US to not need to compete.
then the economic question becomes one of distribution as opposed to
"winning" some sort of "war".
You might as well mindlessly argue about how many angels can dance on
the head of a pin.
If the UAW is getting too large a share of the natural abundance of
the nation
Corse they are.
then they should be curtailed just as the banks or the real estate
people should be curtailed.
Soorree, comrade, centrally planned economys just dont work.
But that is the only issue.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
If the Asians want to sell cars here then an import duty can be used
to reduce income taxes or sales taxes.
And they will impose those on US exports, fuckwit.
We need not pay so much in other taxes and in this way the
distribution of real cost is managed.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
Many times I see people claiming that import duties are paid by the
consumer.
Corse they are.
That is true only to the extent that the import duties are an
additional cost on the consumer that is not offset by a tax break or
a debt break somewhere else.
Not even possible.
The claim is terribly short sighted.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
As a matter of fact it is the location and size of the USA that makes
it capable of sustaining itself without trade.
Not with anything like the lifestyle that americans demand.
It wouldnt even be possible to be completely independant of the rest of
the world on energy alone, let alone produce anything like enough
transport fuel without trade.
Even if the vast bulk of energy came from nukes and everyone rode
bicycles, you clowns would STILL have to import the fuel for those
nukes.
And there is no way that american voters will accept no cars at all.
That is not to say that the US should not trade. It is only to say
that trade is not essential.
It is for anything like the lifestyle that so many americans demand.
Japan must import both oil and steel and almost all of the rest in
order to manufacture automobiles. That is not a choice. It is a must.
China does not have adequate natural resources to support its people
but in the poorest of conditions.
Just as true of the USA.
We simply do not have these problems but for our own oil gluttony.
Pity there is no viable alternative that would produce anything like the
lifestyle that so many of you clowns demand.
It is not as though we must have oil in order to live well or trade.
It is essential for transport tho.
It is, that we must trade in order to have oil to waste.
Yep, and the vast bulk of americans wont be changing to bicycles, you
watch.
One of the problems is that if we stop importing so much oil then the
Chinese and the Indians will be able to dramatically increase their
economic production and living standards very quickly.
Wrong, as always. They would have a problem with what they currently
export to the US.
It is very much like we must continue to suck up great amounts of oil
or they will "get us".
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
[/quote]
I am very confident about my position and the virus will not be
destroying it. We Americans must give up our ridiculous wasteful life
styles and accept a more rational and probably more rewarding life
style. I say more rewarding because it still incorporates a "better than
the others" style of life. We, as Americans, have to realize that our
life style is a gift that we much manage or we will not have it in the
future. The sheer natural abundance that is ours was not created by
Americans. It is just here and we get to use it because we are born
here. There should be a sense of pride only in our management of this
gift. There can be no "open borders" and immigration must be limited.
And that is the only way that we can defend our way of life and our life
style. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Rod Speed
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
|
|
Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
[quote]Rod Speed wrote
Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1126@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1...@gmail.com> wrote
Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote
Lee Iacocca was a very smart man and obviously still is.
He was leader of an industry that just put the chrome in a
different spot and called it "all-new" while letting a 90%
market share (combined) fall to <50% today.
Yes, but its distinctly arguable that anyone could ever have avoided that outcome.
While ever their costs were MUCH higher than the Japs, they were doomed.
Thats the main reason the market share went from 90% to 50%
Detroit cried in the 70s and 80s that yen-exchange rate was to blame.
And when that was fixed, in the Plaza Agreement, the Japs STILL
dominated the market, particularly with those who cared about the
quality of the cars they bought, so that was clearly just another
Detroit lie.
The yen went from 260 to <130 in a few years--meaning that the
price in dollar terms should have doubled. So the japanese
built factories here.
You>ve got that last backwards. The only reason they built
factorys in north america was because of the protection the US
car industry had.
Then Detroit cried about "legacy costs"--they cannot compete
because of PRODUCT.
Its more complicated than that. Their much higher costs imposed
by the stupid unions is the reason they couldnt make money on
cheap quality cars like Honda etc could.
How do you have all the engeneering and such that GM had years
ago and let some then-little companies steal market segment
after market segment?
Thats partly because of the stupid costs imposed on them by the
unions, and partly because there are much better places to work
for good engineers that the car industry, most obviously the
aircraft industry etc. The Japs dont have anything like the same
opportunitys for their best engineers.
Maybe they will declare capter 11 and tear up the UAW contracts but it will not help.
It would help with their costs and make it possible to sell cheap
quality small cars at a profit if it wasnt for the fact that
chaper 11 would cripple their access to the immense amount of
capital required to change their product line, let alone develop
decent hybrids etc and hardly anyone will buy an expensive
product like a car from an company thats likely to go bust
during the life of the car.
The short story is that they>re doomed. Not that that will stop
the DemoPrats pouring billions down that rat hole, just because
thats where so many of those who vote for them 'work'
Most of the product is bad and the workers have bad attitudes.
And the industry is doomed. Its never going to be able to compete
with Japan and Korea now.
And if China starts making cars for export, they>re completely
fucked forever.
reams of your desperate puerile attempts to bullshit your way out of
your predicament that fools absolutely no one at all, flushed where it belongs
It is not necessary to compete with the Asians.
Wrong, as always.
That is a myth that has been perpetrated on the people of this
country for a very long time.
Taint a myth, look at the sales of Jap and Korean cars sometime.
It was certainly not necessary when oil was $10 a barrel.
Wrong, as always. Thats the reason the US car industry is about to go bust.
Now that oil is $60 a barrel (right about where it should be)
then we should be spending a lot of our innovative juices on
getting off the oil teat.
Not even possible.
At least not with anything like the lifestyle so many americans demand, anyway.
And this is because the oil is the only real problem for us.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
If we need not import anything then we need not compete.
Not even possible.
That should be obvious to anyone that actually takes the time to think about it.
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually
possible to a country the size of the US to not import anything at all.
If we need not compete
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually
possible to a country the size of the US to not need to compete.
then the economic question becomes one of distribution as opposed
to "winning" some sort of "war".
You might as well mindlessly argue about how many angels can dance
on the head of a pin.
If the UAW is getting too large a share of the natural abundance of the nation
Corse they are.
then they should be curtailed just as the banks or the real estate people should be curtailed.
Soorree, comrade, centrally planned economys just dont work.
But that is the only issue.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
If the Asians want to sell cars here then an import duty can be
used to reduce income taxes or sales taxes.
And they will impose those on US exports, fuckwit.
We need not pay so much in other taxes and in this way the
distribution of real cost is managed.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
Many times I see people claiming that import duties are paid by the consumer.
Corse they are.
That is true only to the extent that the import duties are an
additional cost on the consumer that is not offset by a tax break
or a debt break somewhere else.
Not even possible.
The claim is terribly short sighted.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
As a matter of fact it is the location and size of the USA that
makes it capable of sustaining itself without trade.
Not with anything like the lifestyle that americans demand.
It wouldnt even be possible to be completely independant of the rest
of the world on energy alone, let alone produce anything like enough
transport fuel without trade.
Even if the vast bulk of energy came from nukes and everyone rode
bicycles, you clowns would STILL have to import the fuel for those nukes.
And there is no way that american voters will accept no cars at all.
That is not to say that the US should not trade. It is only to say that trade is not essential.
It is for anything like the lifestyle that so many americans demand.
Japan must import both oil and steel and almost all of the rest in
order to manufacture automobiles. That is not a choice. It is a
must. China does not have adequate natural resources to support its
people but in the poorest of conditions.
Just as true of the USA.
We simply do not have these problems but for our own oil gluttony.
Pity there is no viable alternative that would produce anything like
the lifestyle that so many of you clowns demand.
It is not as though we must have oil in order to live well or trade.
It is essential for transport tho.
It is, that we must trade in order to have oil to waste.
Yep, and the vast bulk of americans wont be changing to bicycles, you watch.
One of the problems is that if we stop importing so much oil then
the Chinese and the Indians will be able to dramatically increase
their economic production and living standards very quickly.
Wrong, as always. They would have a problem with what they currently export to the US.
It is very much like we must continue to suck up great amounts of oil or they will "get us".
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
I am very confident about my position
[/quote]
You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.
What you might or might not be confident about in spades.
[quote]We Americans must give up our ridiculous wasteful life styles and
accept a more rational and probably more rewarding life style.
[/quote]
Taint gunna happen. f ck all were stupid enough to want to be hippys.
[quote]I say more rewarding because it still incorporates a "better than the others" style of life.
[/quote]
Hardly anyone is stupid enough to 'think' that bicycles qualify.
[quote]We, as Americans, have to realize that our life style is a
gift that we much manage or we will not have it in the future.
[/quote]
Wrong, as always.
[quote]The sheer natural abundance that is ours was not created by Americans.
[/quote]
Must be one of those rocket scientist terminal fuckwits.
[quote]It is just here and we get to use it because we are born here.
[/quote]
Pity it doesnt include enough oil anymore.
[quote]There should be a sense of pride only in our management of this gift.
[/quote]
Wota fucking wanker.
[quote]There can be no "open borders" and immigration must be limited.
[/quote]
Taint gunna happen either, you watch.
[quote]And that is the only way that we can defend our way of life and our life style.
[/quote]
Wouldnt make any difference what so ever even if america did.
Hardly anyone is actually stupid enough to be happy with bicycles for all. |
|
| |
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| Back to top |
Michael Coburn
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:32:34 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
[quote]Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote
Rod Speed wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1126@gmail.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
AZDuffman <srduffy1...@gmail.com> wrote
Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote
Lee Iacocca was a very smart man and obviously still is.
He was leader of an industry that just put the chrome in a
different spot and called it "all-new" while letting a 90%
market share (combined) fall to <50% today.
Yes, but its distinctly arguable that anyone could ever have
avoided that outcome.
While ever their costs were MUCH higher than the Japs, they were
doomed.
Thats the main reason the market share went from 90% to 50%
Detroit cried in the 70s and 80s that yen-exchange rate was to
blame.
And when that was fixed, in the Plaza Agreement, the Japs STILL
dominated the market, particularly with those who cared about the
quality of the cars they bought, so that was clearly just another
Detroit lie.
The yen went from 260 to <130 in a few years--meaning that the
price in dollar terms should have doubled. So the japanese built
factories here.
You>ve got that last backwards. The only reason they built
factorys in north america was because of the protection the US car
industry had.
Then Detroit cried about "legacy costs"--they cannot compete
because of PRODUCT.
Its more complicated than that. Their much higher costs imposed by
the stupid unions is the reason they couldnt make money on cheap
quality cars like Honda etc could.
How do you have all the engeneering and such that GM had years
ago and let some then-little companies steal market segment after
market segment?
Thats partly because of the stupid costs imposed on them by the
unions, and partly because there are much better places to work
for good engineers that the car industry, most obviously the
aircraft industry etc. The Japs dont have anything like the same
opportunitys for their best engineers.
Maybe they will declare capter 11 and tear up the UAW contracts
but it will not help.
It would help with their costs and make it possible to sell cheap
quality small cars at a profit if it wasnt for the fact that
chaper 11 would cripple their access to the immense amount of
capital required to change their product line, let alone develop
decent hybrids etc and hardly anyone will buy an expensive product
like a car from an company thats likely to go bust during the life
of the car.
The short story is that they>re doomed. Not that that will stop
the DemoPrats pouring billions down that rat hole, just because
thats where so many of those who vote for them 'work'
Most of the product is bad and the workers have bad attitudes.
And the industry is doomed. Its never going to be able to compete
with Japan and Korea now.
And if China starts making cars for export, they>re completely
fucked forever.
reams of your desperate puerile attempts to bullshit your way out of
your predicament that fools absolutely no one at all, flushed where it
belongs
It is not necessary to compete with the Asians.
Wrong, as always.
That is a myth that has been perpetrated on the people of this
country for a very long time.
Taint a myth, look at the sales of Jap and Korean cars sometime.
It was certainly not necessary when oil was $10 a barrel.
Wrong, as always. Thats the reason the US car industry is about to
go bust.
Now that oil is $60 a barrel (right about where it should be) then
we should be spending a lot of our innovative juices on getting off
the oil teat.
Not even possible.
At least not with anything like the lifestyle so many americans
demand, anyway.
And this is because the oil is the only real problem for us.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
If we need not import anything then we need not compete.
Not even possible.
That should be obvious to anyone that actually takes the time to
think about it.
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually
possible to a country the size of the US to not import anything at
all.
If we need not compete
Only a fool would be stupid enough to believe that its actually
possible to a country the size of the US to not need to compete.
then the economic question becomes one of distribution as opposed
to "winning" some sort of "war".
You might as well mindlessly argue about how many angels can dance
on the head of a pin.
If the UAW is getting too large a share of the natural abundance of
the nation
Corse they are.
then they should be curtailed just as the banks or the real estate
people should be curtailed.
Soorree, comrade, centrally planned economys just dont work.
But that is the only issue.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
If the Asians want to sell cars here then an import duty can be
used to reduce income taxes or sales taxes.
And they will impose those on US exports, fuckwit.
We need not pay so much in other taxes and in this way the
distribution of real cost is managed.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
Many times I see people claiming that import duties are paid by the
consumer.
Corse they are.
That is true only to the extent that the import duties are an
additional cost on the consumer that is not offset by a tax break
or a debt break somewhere else.
Not even possible.
The claim is terribly short sighted.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
As a matter of fact it is the location and size of the USA that makes
it capable of sustaining itself without trade.
Not with anything like the lifestyle that americans demand.
It wouldnt even be possible to be completely independant of the rest
of the world on energy alone, let alone produce anything like enough
transport fuel without trade.
Even if the vast bulk of energy came from nukes and everyone rode
bicycles, you clowns would STILL have to import the fuel for those
nukes.
And there is no way that american voters will accept no cars at all.
That is not to say that the US should not trade. It is only to say
that trade is not essential.
It is for anything like the lifestyle that so many americans demand.
Japan must import both oil and steel and almost all of the rest in
order to manufacture automobiles. That is not a choice. It is a
must. China does not have adequate natural resources to support its
people but in the poorest of conditions.
Just as true of the USA.
We simply do not have these problems but for our own oil gluttony.
Pity there is no viable alternative that would produce anything like
the lifestyle that so many of you clowns demand.
It is not as though we must have oil in order to live well or trade.
It is essential for transport tho.
It is, that we must trade in order to have oil to waste.
Yep, and the vast bulk of americans wont be changing to bicycles, you
watch.
One of the problems is that if we stop importing so much oil then the
Chinese and the Indians will be able to dramatically increase their
economic production and living standards very quickly.
Wrong, as always. They would have a problem with what they currently
export to the US.
It is very much like we must continue to suck up great amounts of oil
or they will "get us".
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever
had a fucking clue about anything at all, ever.
I am very confident about my position
You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly
irrelevant.
What you might or might not be confident about in spades.
We Americans must give up our ridiculous wasteful life styles and
accept a more rational and probably more rewarding life style.
Taint gunna happen. f ck all were stupid enough to want to be hippys.
I say more rewarding because it still incorporates a "better than the
others" style of life.
Hardly anyone is stupid enough to 'think' that bicycles qualify.
We, as Americans, have to realize that our life style is a gift that we
much manage or we will not have it in the future.
Wrong, as always.
The sheer natural abundance that is ours was not created by Americans.
Must be one of those rocket scientist terminal fuckwits.
It is just here and we get to use it because we are born here.
Pity it doesnt include enough oil anymore.
There should be a sense of pride only in our management of this gift.
Wota fucking wanker.
There can be no "open borders" and immigration must be limited.
Taint gunna happen either, you watch.
And that is the only way that we can defend our way of life and our
life style.
Wouldnt make any difference what so ever even if america did.
Hardly anyone is actually stupid enough to be happy with bicycles for
all.
[/quote]
I have made the point I need to make. The virus will not change it or
actually damage it. |
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SORR Point
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
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"Michael Coburn" <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:gg2d8p6h82@news2.newsguy.com...
[quote]On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:51:57 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
[/quote]
snip
[quote]I am very confident about my position and the virus will not be
destroying it. We Americans must give up our ridiculous wasteful life
styles and accept a more rational and probably more rewarding life
style. I say more rewarding because it still incorporates a "better than
the others" style of life. We, as Americans, have to realize that our
life style is a gift that we much manage or we will not have it in the
future. The sheer natural abundance that is ours was not created by
Americans. It is just here and we get to use it because we are born
here. There should be a sense of pride only in our management of this
gift. There can be no "open borders" and immigration must be limited.
And that is the only way that we can defend our way of life and our life
style.
[/quote]
Well said, I tried to get the same notion thru Publius>s mental blocks but
alas poor Yorrick :) |
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AZDuffman
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Where the hell is our outrage? asks *American* Lee Iacoc |
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On Nov 19, 5:13 pm, "SORR Point" <Relax...@theBeach.DownUnder.org>
wrote:
[quote]It>s a well known fact by anyone with a basic understanding of human
psychology and business/people management skills, that the responsibility
for workers attitudes belongs 100% to the EMPLOYER ... and no one else.
Because no one EVER gets a job, or goes to work any day, to do a bad job.
Anyone who suggests otherwise is simply ignorant of the truth, or has some
serious attitude/ego problems themselves, and shouldn>t be allowed to get
into a position where they are responsible for employees.
Unfortunately that happens in spades all over the world as well as America
[/quote]
100% the employer? No, sorry. I have managed people and can say
there are plenty who are good workers and plenty who are lucky to have
any job. I once had a guy work for me who cried and complained about
any task I gave him--the job didn>t pay enought o be "worthwhile" or
"it was too far to drive" (even in MY TRUCK AND MY GAS!) I finally
fired his lazy ass. At the same time I had a guy working for me who
once told me to "quit apologizing when I gave him a job--he was there
to work for me!" The second guy was from Ukraine-a great immigrant
worker! Now, same me ma | |
