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Dean Hoffman · Guest

On 12/14/03 5:30 AM, in article brhici$vvr$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk, "Jim
Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:

[quote]
yes, we are even exporting call centres, as it you can run one on the indian
subcontinent for a third the cost and get staff who are better educated and
often speak better English.

So just how the UK pays for food in the future is beyond me

Jim Webster
[/quote]

Well, one company is reversing that trend at its help centers for its
commercial customers. I think it>s Dell Computer Company. The Indian>s
accents are too hard for the American ear to decipher.

Dean

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Old Codger · Guest

"Dean Hoffman" <dh0496@ineINbrasVALkaID.com> wrote in
message news:BC022AC3.46CFD%dh0496@ineINbrasVALkaID.com...
[quote]On 12/14/03 5:30 AM, in article
brhici$vvr$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk, "Jim
Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:

yes, we are even exporting call centres, as it you can
run one on the indian
subcontinent for a third the cost and get staff who are
better educated and
often speak better English.

So just how the UK pays for food in the future is beyond
me

Jim Webster

Well, one company is reversing that trend at its help
centers for its
commercial customers. I think it>s Dell Computer Company.
The Indian>s
accents are too hard for the American ear to decipher.
[/quote]
They speak English, not American.

--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you
can make people believe has happened. [Janet Daley
27/8/2003]

Jill · Guest

"Dean Hoffman" <dh0496@ineINbrasVALkaID.com> wrote in message
news:BC022AC3.46CFD%dh0496@ineINbrasVALkaID.com...
[quote]On 12/14/03 5:30 AM, in article brhici$vvr$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk, "Jim
Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:

yes, we are even exporting call centres, as it you can run one on the
indian
subcontinent for a third the cost and get staff who are better educated
and
often speak better English.

So just how the UK pays for food in the future is beyond me

Jim Webster

Well, one company is reversing that trend at its help centers for its
commercial customers. I think it>s Dell Computer Company. The Indian>s
accents are too hard for the American ear to decipher.
[/quote]
goodie - hopefully they will also move for the rest of us
I have a reasonable ear for accents
but some of the folks at the Dell helpline are very very difficult to
understand
Several times I have had to thank them - hang up and try again in the hope
of finding someone more intelligible. They know their stuff in general but
they do not understand you and have problems describing what they want you
to do

--
regards
Jill Bowis
new for Christmas http://www.animalgiftshop.co.uk - hand quilted cushions
Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
[quote]
Dean

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Michelle Fulton · Guest

Dean Hoffman wrote:
[quote]
Well, one company is reversing that trend at its help centers for
its commercial customers. I think it>s Dell Computer Company. The
Indian>s accents are too hard for the American ear to decipher.
[/quote]
Leave it to a Texas company to do the right thing :-)

--
Michelle
Texas, USA
If you>re not living on the edge, you>re taking up too much space.

Michelle Fulton · Guest

Jim Webster wrote:
[quote]
providing training?
[/quote]
Perhaps, but I believe the job title was systems admin. or something of that
sort.

[quote]And if they have a culture which values education and can see the
usefulness of it, then boy are they going to expand that proportion
[/quote]
That>s pretty scary.

I don>t think y>all probably would have heard about this one.....some city,
in a state up north (can>t remember which) awarded a contract to an Indian
company to do a study on how to reduce unemployment in their region (yes,
the irony/stupidity is sickening), however, the "people" made a stink and
the contract was withdrawn. It>s easier to have leverage in situations like
that when it>s a government agency, but we still have a voice in the matter
when it>s not a government agency. We choose where we spend our money.

--
Michelle
Texas, USA
If you>re not living on the edge, you>re taking up too much space.

Peter Gillett · Guest

In article <brh69m$k5v$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Hamish <akc@despammed.com> wrote:

[quote]"Gordon Couger" <gcouger@NOSPAMprovalue.net> wrote in message
news:xMUCb.2863

But as this group points out, we pay a small % of income on food so 400%
price hikes are affordable,
[/quote]
Remember the jobs we are exporting. More and more of the population are
being put out of work and that will increase in the future. People may be
able to pay these price hikes now but they will not be able to when they
are on the dole and even the supposed "secure" jobs - plumbing, electrician
etc - will only last as long as other people can afford to pay for their
services.

We are moving towards a UK economy which is something like the third world
or maybe "averaging out" with what is now the third world. I don>t expect
the general public to forsee it but governments should. Unfortunately they
only look forward a short period, ie to the next election, and taking steps
to make the electorate aware of the situation would only lower their
chances of re-election so they don>t do it.

In my view, it is a major responsibility of any govt in power to take
whatever steps are necessary to give their population a good chance of
being able to eat in the future. Our present govt - and, to be fair, any
likely to replace them - are unlikely to do it for the reasons given above.

Jane

--
Peter Gillett : peter.gillett@ukgateway.net
Totnes : South Devon

Jim Webster · Guest

"Peter Gillett" <peter.gillett@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
news:4c612f0330peter.gillett@ukgateway.net...
[quote]In article <brh69m$k5v$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Hamish <akc@despammed.com> wrote:

"Gordon Couger" <gcouger@NOSPAMprovalue.net> wrote in message
news:xMUCb.2863

But as this group points out, we pay a small % of income on food so
400%
price hikes are affordable,

Remember the jobs we are exporting. More and more of the population are
being put out of work and that will increase in the future. People may be
able to pay these price hikes now but they will not be able to when they
are on the dole and even the supposed "secure" jobs - plumbing,
electrician
etc - will only last as long as other people can afford to pay for their
services.

[/quote]
it is interesting to contemplate the proportion of the population which is
currently supported with bread and circuses.
Ponder why more people apparently vote for things like pop idol than do for
general elections

Jim Webster

Gordon Couger · Guest

"Hamish" <akc@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:brhukn$u2r$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
[quote]
"Oz" <acoohdb@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:R10bluAGYG3$Ewcu@btopenworld.com...
Jim Webster <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> writes

yes, we are even exporting call centres, as it you can run one on the
indian
subcontinent for a third the cost

1/10th, actually

I gather the rate is rising fairly fast as the USA and Europe export jobs
they are moping up the available staff.

The funny thing with software jobs is that since the design stage now has
to
be fully documented with requirements and tests against requirements being
defined up front that the development cycle is being properly followed.
You
can>t do otherwise if you seperate the design stage from the
implimentation
process.

If firms did it that way for in-house employees there would probably be no
need to export the jobs.

Most of the big firms in the US don>t have good in house software people.[/quote]
They either promote them into management or they leave an go to a new
project when the new wears off and maintenance and documentation sets in.

Indian and Russian software teams do very good work at good prices.

There is far too much software that just happened and what should have been
a prototype has been patched for 20 years. Cisco set out to rewrite thier
OS. The assemble a all star team and proceed to do great things until they
reached an impasse with higher management. Suddenly Cisco was back to square
one and new start up called Juniper Networks making faster stuff than Cisco
and owed by the all-star team Cisco hired. In hose R&D can be risky.

No matter what people need a place to live and food to eat. If you can raise
food to eat you are a fool to let that out to others. Every dollar worth you
raise goes though many hands the harvester, storage, drayage, miller, baker
, drayage, retail and finely the consumer. Or I will be glad to sell flour
your baker 2 days before he needs it movie most of the folks making money on
that to my side of he pond.

You can comply wiht Kyoto and I will be the fall guy and take you money and
produce your pollution away from your green lands. I will GLADY ship you
gasohol and biodeisl at ruinous prices screw the environment over here. If
you have solid waste that you want to be rid of for a fee I will be glad to
handle it for you.

You say you are going to have trouble paying the bill next year? Well I
can>t afford to deal with dead beats. I expect you best look for some place
else to find your food and green fuel and dump your trash. The trash is
going to start smelling in a few day if you don>t find a solution.

Gordon

Peter Duncanson · Guest

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:00:23 -0000, "Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk>
wrote:

[quote]
"Peter Gillett" <peter.gillett@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
news:4c612f0330peter.gillett@ukgateway.net...
In article <brh69m$k5v$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Hamish <akc@despammed.com> wrote:

"Gordon Couger" <gcouger@NOSPAMprovalue.net> wrote in message
news:xMUCb.2863

But as this group points out, we pay a small % of income on food so
400%
price hikes are affordable,

Remember the jobs we are exporting. More and more of the population are
being put out of work and that will increase in the future. People may be
able to pay these price hikes now but they will not be able to when they
are on the dole and even the supposed "secure" jobs - plumbing,
electrician
etc - will only last as long as other people can afford to pay for their
services.

it is interesting to contemplate the proportion of the population which is
currently supported with bread and circuses.
Ponder why more people apparently vote for things like pop idol than do for
general elections

Pondering.......[/quote]

General elections:
One person, one vote.
A person must be at least 18 to vote.
Citizenship requirement for voting.

Pop Idol and such like:
None of the above.

There is known to be massive multiple voting for reality TV show
contestants, particularly by people in their home territories - "Support Our
Local Lad/Lass".

One reason people vote for reality TV show contestants is "instant
gratification", plus for some people the pleasure of "power without
responsibility".

I spent a lot of time watching the last series of Fame Academy (I>m retired
so could arrange my day to suit).
It was interesting that outside the weekly competitive shows the vocal, and
other, teachers were warning the students that the voting was not a reliable
indication of their performing ability or likely success in the pop music
industry. One teacher said something to the effect that "the fact that
people vote for you because they enjoy watching you on TV does not mean that
they will buy your records, or listen to you on radio, where they can only
hear you".

--
Peter Duncanson
UK

Jim Webster · Guest

"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:hrbutvgf2659f6gbebgtorltjp1i97b6dj@4ax.com...
[quote]On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:00:23 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk
wrote:
it is interesting to contemplate the proportion of the population which
is
currently supported with bread and circuses.
Ponder why more people apparently vote for things like pop idol than do
for
general elections

Pondering.......

General elections:
One person, one vote.
A person must be at least 18 to vote.
Citizenship requirement for voting.

Pop Idol and such like:
None of the above.

There is known to be massive multiple voting for reality TV show
contestants, particularly by people in their home territories - "Support
Our
Local Lad/Lass".

One reason people vote for reality TV show contestants is "instant
gratification", plus for some people the pleasure of "power without
responsibility".

I spent a lot of time watching the last series of Fame Academy (I>m
retired
so could arrange my day to suit).
It was interesting that outside the weekly competitive shows the vocal,
and
other, teachers were warning the students that the voting was not a
reliable
indication of their performing ability or likely success in the pop music
industry. One teacher said something to the effect that "the fact that
people vote for you because they enjoy watching you on TV does not mean
that
they will buy your records, or listen to you on radio, where they can only
hear you".

hmm, interesting[/quote]

so if we take this back to politics, can we draw any further conclusions?

Are moves to electronic voting pandering to instant gratification?

Jim Webster

Peter Duncanson · Guest

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:53:03 -0000, "Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk>
wrote:

[quote]
"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:hrbutvgf2659f6gbebgtorltjp1i97b6dj@4ax.com...
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:00:23 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk
wrote:
it is interesting to contemplate the proportion of the population which
is
currently supported with bread and circuses.
Ponder why more people apparently vote for things like pop idol than do
for
general elections

Pondering.......

General elections:
One person, one vote.
A person must be at least 18 to vote.
Citizenship requirement for voting.

Pop Idol and such like:
None of the above.

There is known to be massive multiple voting for reality TV show
contestants, particularly by people in their home territories - "Support
Our
Local Lad/Lass".

One reason people vote for reality TV show contestants is "instant
gratification", plus for some people the pleasure of "power without
responsibility".

I spent a lot of time watching the last series of Fame Academy (I>m
retired
so could arrange my day to suit).
It was interesting that outside the weekly competitive shows the vocal,
and
other, teachers were warning the students that the voting was not a
reliable
indication of their performing ability or likely success in the pop music
industry. One teacher said something to the effect that "the fact that
people vote for you because they enjoy watching you on TV does not mean
that
they will buy your records, or listen to you on radio, where they can only
hear you".

hmm, interesting

so if we take this back to politics, can we draw any further conclusions?

Are moves to electronic voting pandering to instant gratification?

Perhaps. But the votes must take place weekly, with eleven of twelve[/quote]
candidates being voted out one at a time until there is only the winner
left.

Then another election starts within a few weeks.

--
Peter Duncanson
UK

Jim Webster · Guest

"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:oeiutv48njns69aic3f4cf5rrnd84u3fmo@4ax.com...
[quote]On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:53:03 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk
wrote:
so if we take this back to politics, can we draw any further conclusions?

Are moves to electronic voting pandering to instant gratification?

Perhaps. But the votes must take place weekly, with eleven of twelve
candidates being voted out one at a time until there is only the winner
left.

Then another election starts within a few weeks.

[/quote]
sounds almost Athenian. Perhaps we could support our population by paying
citizens to turn up to vote?

Jim Webster

Peter Duncanson · Guest

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:27:26 -0000, "Jim Webster" <Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk>
wrote:

[quote]
"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:oeiutv48njns69aic3f4cf5rrnd84u3fmo@4ax.com...
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:53:03 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk
wrote:
so if we take this back to politics, can we draw any further conclusions?

Are moves to electronic voting pandering to instant gratification?

Perhaps. But the votes must take place weekly, with eleven of twelve
candidates being voted out one at a time until there is only the winner
left.

Then another election starts within a few weeks.

sounds almost Athenian. Perhaps we could support our population by paying
citizens to turn up to vote?

It might work. However in the case of the TV shows the public pays to vote.[/quote]

P.S.
Things have just turned hilarious in the UK Pop Idol show.
They are down to the last two, the public having voted out the best of the
final three on Saturday.

Of the remaining two, one is a nice scottish lass with a reasonable voice,
but a height to girth ratio more familiar among operatic sopranos.

The other is a lad who cannot sing well, even to the standard needed for a
pop singer.

The four record industry judges (who comment on the perfomances but do not
vote) have been criticising the his performances for weeks, but the public
keep voting for him. Probably out of contrariness.

Two of the four judges have now cracked under the strain and said today "he
was far out of his depth", "Obviously this show is not about singing or
talent any more", and "he should be doing cabaret. If he is the Pop Idol,
then that will be very disappointing".

The other two judges are silent. They are from the company that will manage
the winner under the terms of the 2 million pound record contract which is
the prize!

--
Peter Duncanson
UK

Jim Webster · Guest

"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:bv2vtvsh24gddnk9uasd9mal2cedh1cmve@4ax.com...
[quote]On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:27:26 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk
wrote:

"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:oeiutv48njns69aic3f4cf5rrnd84u3fmo@4ax.com...
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:53:03 -0000, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk
wrote:
so if we take this back to politics, can we draw any further
conclusions?

Are moves to electronic voting pandering to instant gratification?

Perhaps. But the votes must take place weekly, with eleven of twelve
candidates being voted out one at a time until there is only the winner
left.

Then another election starts within a few weeks.

sounds almost Athenian. Perhaps we could support our population by paying
citizens to turn up to vote?

It might work. However in the case of the TV shows the public pays to
vote.[/quote]

curses, yet another economic problem for the government.
Mind you, the Athenian idea may still have legs. We ought to form a league
to protect people against the attack from a hopefully distant enemy (The
inhabitants of Alpha Centaurii for choice) and have the treasury stored in
Westminster abbey

[quote]
P.S.
Things have just turned hilarious in the UK Pop Idol show.
They are down to the last two, the public having voted out the best of the
final three on Saturday.

Of the remaining two, one is a nice scottish lass with a reasonable voice,
but a height to girth ratio more familiar among operatic sopranos.

The other is a lad who cannot sing well, even to the standard needed for a
pop singer.

The four record industry judges (who comment on the perfomances but do not
vote) have been criticising the his performances for weeks, but the public
keep voting for him. Probably out of contrariness.

Two of the four judges have now cracked under the strain and said today
"he
was far out of his depth", "Obviously this show is not about singing or
talent any more", and "he should be doing cabaret. If he is the Pop Idol,
then that will be very disappointing".

The other two judges are silent. They are from the company that will
manage
the winner under the terms of the 2 million pound record contract which is
the prize!
[/quote]
I suppose that people do tend to vote against authority figures. I know
that, while I have never smoked in my life, when ASH spokesmen go on the
radio demanding that this or that be banned, I get this urge to dash out and
buy a packet of twenty.

Or is it merely the casual cruelty of the mob, sitting there enjoying some
loon make a fool of themselves?

Jim Webster

Gordon Couger · Guest

"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
news:7kaotv4padad877b0hnub7av6a7nvajf55@4ax.com...
[quote]On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:00:34 -0600, "Gordon Couger"
gcouger@NOSPAMprovalue.net> wrote:

How does your government plan on people making a living so they can tax
them to have something to keep their jobs?

Are you going to revive manufacturing, shipping, mining or what? Putting
all
your eggs in the high tech, banking and service industry basket is a damn
risky. You have a very good climate for agriculture and livestock and
people
out of work. Buying from a third party doesn>t make sense when it puts
your
at the mercy of a few countries that are prone to less deposable weather
than you are.

UK is really much like USA, Gordon. It is like you cannot compete, or
do not want to. Perhaps it is a cultural thing.

[/quote]
We can compete a great deal longer than they can. The government is not
nicking us for 60% of the take and possibly as much misses the tax man as he
catches. We have not lost the believe that one man can make a difference an
a fortune if he is sharp and clever.

The tools for making money are there for any that want to pick them up.
There are few government road block to new business and many government
offices will go out of their way to heap you get started.

Oz says it is hard to move a combine down the road with the header on the
trailer. We go out with cutting touches before harvest and cut down
anything that will block a 30 foot header on the machine or a 8 row planter
wiht markers. If they build it back we cut it off some parts so they are
hardener to reprair and harder to find the parts.

If the build a badge that surface traffic but no farm machinery on a damp
night it will burn. And i will continue to burn until it meets everyone>s
needs. If a cop decided to enforce the law as written as long it is for
chump change he is if ignored as soon as he inter fears with harvest his car
won>t run If he is real stupid his car burns.The hard cases end up in a
disagreement with 5 of thier buddies and 2 farmer and their 5 buddies
remember a fried others was considering getting run over in a buffalo heard
that day and go to see the she is ok leaving him with a fight that he
started according to his five friends with two fellow s that rent out as
live tackling dummies for the pro football teams. And are pro boxers in the
off season.

We believe in the rule of law as long as it make sense. A senator that
passes a dumb law my have to take a real wiping from his brother or cousin
for his beliefs. In the more civil area of the country he may have to pay
wiht his life.

Gordon

Gordon


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