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Mark Earnest
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 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:58 am Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-4A3C91.18102018072008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...
[quote]In article <WdidnTuUCaKbsRzVnZ2dnUVZ_tTinZ2d@posted.internetamerica>,
"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c19284hk4gif7bi7v46p9trmjg5sb0hua2@4ax.com...
It>s ALL GAS. It>s VERY HOT GAS too, Mark! lmao!
And just what does hot gas do? It dissipates.
Too bad you don>t understand GRAVITY! lmao!
Too bad you don>t understand the nature of a gas.
Gas "dissipates" if there aren>t other forces preventing it, like a
bottle or gravity.
[/quote]
In space, either gas collects or it drifts? How can it do both?
And why should it collect? Where does the gravity begin, and if it does,
how is there enough of it to tie down a high energy hydrogen atom?
[quote]
BTW, you should be careful whom you call a dumbass on this ng. Saul Levy
is not one of them, and you>ve got egg on your face now.
[/quote]
Real scientists appreciate being proven wrong.
It is the mere egocentric of them that can>t take it. |
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Saul Levy
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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You>re too STUPID to understand gravity, Mark!
BAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
What do you think keeps all those stars in the sky as bright points
for millions of years?
Saul Levy
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:48:36 -0500, "Mark Earnest"
<gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c19284hk4gif7bi7v46p9trmjg5sb0hua2@4ax.com...
It>s ALL GAS. It>s VERY HOT GAS too, Mark! lmao!
And just what does hot gas do? It dissipates.
Too bad you don>t understand GRAVITY! lmao!
Too bad you don>t understand the nature of a gas.[/quote] |
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Saul Levy
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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Mark has clearly shown many times that he just doesn>t understand much
at all, Timberwoof.
Saul Levy
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:10:20 -0700, Timberwoof
<timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:
[quote]In article <WdidnTuUCaKbsRzVnZ2dnUVZ_tTinZ2d@posted.internetamerica>,
"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c19284hk4gif7bi7v46p9trmjg5sb0hua2@4ax.com...
It>s ALL GAS. It>s VERY HOT GAS too, Mark! lmao!
And just what does hot gas do? It dissipates.
Too bad you don>t understand GRAVITY! lmao!
Too bad you don>t understand the nature of a gas.
Gas "dissipates" if there aren>t other forces preventing it, like a
bottle or gravity.
BTW, you should be careful whom you call a dumbass on this ng. Saul Levy
is not one of them, and you>ve got egg on your face now.[/quote] |
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Saul Levy
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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All elements have spectral lines in the visible part of the Sun>s
spectrum including the ultraviolet. Some elemental lines may be
swamped by stronger lines.
I think that>s right! lmao!
Saul Levy
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:29:33 -0500, "Mark Earnest"
<gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
>It wouldn>t register, because there are some things that do not emit light. |
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Saul Levy
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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The physical conditions in the Sun are very well known and understood,
Mark.
All it takes is for TWO atoms or ions to join making them have TWICE
their normal gravity to start collecting star-sized masses. This is
how ALL STARS have formed.
Saul Levy
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:33:45 -0500, "Mark Earnest"
<gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]
"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-4A3C91.18102018072008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...
In article <WdidnTuUCaKbsRzVnZ2dnUVZ_tTinZ2d@posted.internetamerica>,
"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c19284hk4gif7bi7v46p9trmjg5sb0hua2@4ax.com...
It>s ALL GAS. It>s VERY HOT GAS too, Mark! lmao!
And just what does hot gas do? It dissipates.
Too bad you don>t understand GRAVITY! lmao!
Too bad you don>t understand the nature of a gas.
Gas "dissipates" if there aren>t other forces preventing it, like a
bottle or gravity.
In space, either gas collects or it drifts? How can it do both?
And why should it collect? Where does the gravity begin, and if it does,
how is there enough of it to tie down a high energy hydrogen atom?
BTW, you should be careful whom you call a dumbass on this ng. Saul Levy
is not one of them, and you>ve got egg on your face now.
Real scientists appreciate being proven wrong.
It is the mere egocentric of them that can>t take it.[/quote] |
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Mark Earnest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:881384hb4do0mkkpv7pn9acqus334vptem@4ax.com...
[quote]The physical conditions in the Sun are very well known and understood,
Mark.
All it takes is for TWO atoms or ions to join making them have TWICE
their normal gravity to start collecting star-sized masses.
[/quote]
Maybe so, but what makes them join?
There are yet undiscovered elements, invisible to modern man.
This is
[quote]how ALL STARS have formed.
Saul Levy
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:33:45 -0500, "Mark Earnest"
gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-4A3C91.18102018072008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...
In article <WdidnTuUCaKbsRzVnZ2dnUVZ_tTinZ2d@posted.internetamerica>,
"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c19284hk4gif7bi7v46p9trmjg5sb0hua2@4ax.com...
It>s ALL GAS. It>s VERY HOT GAS too, Mark! lmao!
And just what does hot gas do? It dissipates.
Too bad you don>t understand GRAVITY! lmao!
Too bad you don>t understand the nature of a gas.
Gas "dissipates" if there aren>t other forces preventing it, like a
bottle or gravity.
In space, either gas collects or it drifts? How can it do both?
And why should it collect? Where does the gravity begin, and if it does,
how is there enough of it to tie down a high energy hydrogen atom?
BTW, you should be careful whom you call a dumbass on this ng. Saul Levy
is not one of them, and you>ve got egg on your face now.
Real scientists appreciate being proven wrong.
It is the mere egocentric of them that can>t take it.[/quote] |
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G=EMC^2 Glazier
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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Cactus Saul Did a post that is running on space dust. These clouds
helped gravity. Bert |
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G=EMC^2 Glazier
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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Cactus Saul Place a compound like steel in a hot flame and it will show
the elements in its structure. The sun shows all the elements. Helium
was shown to us in the sun before we found it trapped underground in
Texas. Its high temperature that releases the spectral lines of
elements Stars work nicely to0 accomplish this Now we have lots of
helium because of a clever chemist in Oklahoma Go figure Bert |
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G=EMC^2 Glazier
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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Mark You are right in thinking What gets things started?. I have a
theory that EM force plays a big part.in the beginning There is some
fudging by astronomers on early star formation out of space being a
vacuum and hydrogen. I have though long hours every day of my life on
this problem. To me I relate it to the mystery of finding the source of
gravity. Bert |
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Hagar
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:trGdnYWLfPQ3sRzVnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
[quote]
"Hagar" <hagen@sahm.name> wrote in message
news:veOdnXK3zcNEkRzVnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:QLidnU14GfziYB3VnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
"G=EMC^2 Glazier" <herbertglazier@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25707-48808B92-1334@storefull-3338.bay.webtv.net...
What if you had only one word to sum up the Sun? That word has to be
GAS
If the Sun were mostly gas, it would quickly dissipate.
The last time I checked, the Sun contained 71% Hydrogen, 27% Helium and
2% miscellaneous elements, however they are all classified as "Gases".
Sure, that>s what they tell you, but why do you believe them, full well
knowing that unenclosed gases, especially of the lighter gases, tend to
dissipate?
[/quote]
Could it be that it is the same principle, namely gravity, that retains the
Earth>s atmosphere ... just wondering |
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Saul Levy
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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Atoms will stick together, Mark. Not always, but often. It depends
on the circumstances of their meetings.
Saul Levy
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:14:17 -0500, "Mark Earnest"
<gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]
"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:881384hb4do0mkkpv7pn9acqus334vptem@4ax.com...
The physical conditions in the Sun are very well known and understood,
Mark.
All it takes is for TWO atoms or ions to join making them have TWICE
their normal gravity to start collecting star-sized masses.
Maybe so, but what makes them join?
There are yet undiscovered elements, invisible to modern man.
This is
how ALL STARS have formed.
Saul Levy
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:33:45 -0500, "Mark Earnest"
gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-4A3C91.18102018072008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...
In article <WdidnTuUCaKbsRzVnZ2dnUVZ_tTinZ2d@posted.internetamerica>,
"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c19284hk4gif7bi7v46p9trmjg5sb0hua2@4ax.com...
It>s ALL GAS. It>s VERY HOT GAS too, Mark! lmao!
And just what does hot gas do? It dissipates.
Too bad you don>t understand GRAVITY! lmao!
Too bad you don>t understand the nature of a gas.
Gas "dissipates" if there aren>t other forces preventing it, like a
bottle or gravity.
In space, either gas collects or it drifts? How can it do both?
And why should it collect? Where does the gravity begin, and if it does,
how is there enough of it to tie down a high energy hydrogen atom?[/quote] |
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Timberwoof
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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In article <C8qdnXf4brsz3hzVnZ2dnUVZ_tXinZ2d@posted.internetamerica>,
"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-2A5F98.18150318072008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...
In article <trGdnYWLfPQ3sRzVnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica>,
"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Hagar" <hagen@sahm.name> wrote in message
news:veOdnXK3zcNEkRzVnZ2dnUVZ_j2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:QLidnU14GfziYB3VnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica...
"G=EMC^2 Glazier" <herbertglazier@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25707-48808B92-1334@storefull-3338.bay.webtv.net...
What if you had only one word to sum up the Sun? That word has to be
GAS
If the Sun were mostly gas, it would quickly dissipate.
The last time I checked, the Sun contained 71% Hydrogen, 27% Helium and
2%
miscellaneous elements, however they are all classified as "Gases".
Sure, that>s what they tell you, but why do you believe them, full well
knowing that unenclosed gases, especially of the lighter gases, tend to
dissipate?
If you don>t trust "them", then why don>t you take your own spectral
measurements of the sun?
It wouldn>t register, because there are some things that do not emit light.
[/quote]
Time for you to read a basic high school chemistry textbook chapter on
spectroscopy.
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don>t blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L. |
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G=EMC^2 Glazier
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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Cactus Saul It takes energy for hydrogen atoms to move apart. If no
energy to move them apart,than its an easy job for gravity whose job is
to bring stuff together. Stuff getting closer together makes grAVITY
stronger an on an on it goes. Till you get a BH and after lots of
spacetime its critical mass density is reached and another BB pops Saul
you can learn a lot from me and I from you It figures and that is nice
bert |
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Timberwoof
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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In article <nKadnUIr19432RzVnZ2dnUVZ_r3inZ2d@posted.internetamerica>,
"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-4A3C91.18102018072008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...
In article <WdidnTuUCaKbsRzVnZ2dnUVZ_tTinZ2d@posted.internetamerica>,
"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:c19284hk4gif7bi7v46p9trmjg5sb0hua2@4ax.com...
It>s ALL GAS. It>s VERY HOT GAS too, Mark! lmao!
And just what does hot gas do? It dissipates.
Too bad you don>t understand GRAVITY! lmao!
Too bad you don>t understand the nature of a gas.
Gas "dissipates" if there aren>t other forces preventing it, like a
bottle or gravity.
In space, either gas collects or it drifts?
[/quote]
Nope. It can do both. "Drifting" and "collecting" are large-scale human
notions about what things like gas, dust, snow, and dust-bunnies can do.
[quote]How can it do both?
[/quote]
As easily as snow can on Earth.
[quote]And why should it collect? Where does the gravity begin, and if it does,
how is there enough of it to tie down a high energy hydrogen atom?
[/quote]
It all depends. In an evenly distributed cloud of gas "in equilibrium",
nothing will happen in the short term. That>s a tautology, of course,
because in this case the equilibrium is between gas pressure and
gravity. If there were a disturbance, such as a a star nearby going
nova, that would make ripples in the gas, and that could cause local
clumping and thus increased gravitational attraction. And that could
cause the whole thing to collapse and perhaps form a star.
And "high energy" can be defined as having "enough kinetic energy to
escape the local gravitational field." Fair enough. It will leave the
cloud ... which is now colder and thus more likely to condense.
Unfortunately, you>ve gone so far off the deep end with this discussion
that you>ve conveniently forgotten the original point, which was your
contention that gravity can>t confine gas to a star or planet. Clearly
that>s wrong because we have stars and planets with atmospheres.
[quote]BTW, you should be careful whom you call a dumbass on this ng. Saul Levy
is not one of them, and you>ve got egg on your face now.
Real scientists appreciate being proven wrong.
[/quote]
Sure. But real scientists don>t appreciate ignorant people making stupid
statements and then presenting them as some sort of proven fact,
refusing to read up on what>s really happening, and finally castigating
the real scientists for having big egoes.
I>m not a "real" scientist, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn. I took
chemistry and physics classes in high school and college; I did radio
astronomy and took honors astronomy and other scientific subjects in
college; I continue to read and think about developments in science. I
have slowly and carefully worked my way through half of Roger Penrose>s
book "The Road to Reality". But I>m not a scientific researcher or even
a science journalist. If someone comes along these newsgroups who
demonstrates that he knows more about stuff than I do, I try to shut the
hell up and pay attention to him. It is exceedingly rare that I prove a
"real scientist" wrong, and then it>s about trivial matters such as the
MacBook Air. How often have you proven a scientist wrong?
[quote]It is the mere egocentric of them that can>t take it.
[/quote]
Let>s talk about egocentricity. You are lecturing me about what real
scientists do, yet you>ve demonstrated that you>re not a real scientist.
You don>t understand the interactions between gas pressure and gravity,
and yet you go around calling people dumbass. That strikes me as
somewhat egocentric.
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don>t blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L. |
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Timberwoof
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: Re: What if (on Sun) |
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In article <jMKdnTyfWMH3GxzVnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@posted.internetamerica>,
"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:881384hb4do0mkkpv7pn9acqus334vptem@4ax.com...
The physical conditions in the Sun are very well known and understood,
Mark.
All it takes is for TWO atoms or ions to join making them have TWICE
their normal gravity to start collecting star-sized masses.
Maybe so, but what makes them join?
[/quote]
Electrons in the first "shell" about a nucleus like to be in pairs. A
single hydrogen atom has only one electron, but two of them can share
their electrons, filling in their "shells" and thus becoming more
stable. A lot of elements do that: Hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen to name
three. Helium, with two protons, has two electrons in its outer shell.
They>re stable, and helium is extremely chemically inert: it does not
form chemical compounds.
[quote]There are yet undiscovered elements, invisible to modern ma
[/quote]
That>s stupid beyond words.
Chemical elements are defined by the numbers of protons; isotopes of
those elements are defined by the numbers of neutrons. It>s a fair bet
to say that all the integers between 1 and, oh, 300 have been
discovered[1].
One can make a 1:1 correspondence between the integers and the chemical
elements with that number of protons. Trust me on this: People far
cleverer than you have though about the question "What is element number
I?" And people even cleverer than that have provided answers. Indeed, if
you open your chemistry textbook[2] to the page with the periodic table
of the elements, you will see that every element up to about 104 (or
more, depending on the date it was printed) has been discovered and
named. Even element number 42.
How, exactly, do you think that an element has not been discovered (or
thought about), or that it would be invisible? And how do you think such
elements would be formed?
[1] If you doubt that, it>s trivial (for some of us) to write a computer
program that will calculate and print out every last one of them, in
order. If you can>t program a computer, you>ll have to do with with
pencil and paper. Here are the formulas for every integer:
I(i+1) = I(i) + 1
I(0) = 0
[2] I am assuming, out of politeness, that you have one. Although your
question about what makes H for H2 makes me wonder whether you>ve read
it.
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don>t blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L. |
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