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Jeff▲Relf
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 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galactic co |
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How is the speed of a star in the Milky Way measured ?
Isn>t it based on the redshift of spectral lines ?
Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galactic core ? |
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Jeff▲Relf
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Likely, cosmologists aren>t correctly measuring orbital |
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The sun has 99 percent of the mass in our solar system,
I find it hard to believe that the Milky way is that different.
How accurately is the speed and composition these stars known ? |
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oldcoot
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Likely, cosmologists aren>t correctly measuring orbital |
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On Jul 29, 11:08 pm, Jeff$B"%(BRelf <Jeff_R...@Seattle.Invalid> wrote:
[quote]
The sun has 99 percent of the mass in our solar system,
This obliges the planets to obey the laws of orbital motion observed[/quote]
by Kepler. Rotation curves of the solar system are said to be
'Keplerian', that is, the innermost planets revolve around the sun the
fastest and the outermost planets the slowest.
[quote]
I find it hard to believe that the Milky way is that different.
The major difference is in mass concentration. A spiral galaxy[/quote]
typically has far higher percentage of its mass spread out
peripherially in the spiral arms. Thus *mutual gravitation* within the
outlying mass causes the rotation curve to be 'non-Keplerian' or more
unitary ('frisbee-like').
[quote]
How accurately is the speed and composition these stars known ?
Dunno about the Milky Way considering dust clouds obscuring the inner[/quote]
regions, but when looking at a distant galaxy more-or-less edge on,
Doppler shift indicates velocities of the on-coming side of the disc
vs. the receding side. This is how galaxies' rotation curves
(mentioned above) are obtained. Assuming our Milky Way galaxy is
fairly typical, those rotation curves could be extrapolated to it. |
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BradGuth
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galacti |
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On Jul 29, 11:03 pm, Jeff$B"%(BRelf <Jeff_R...@Seattle.Invalid> wrote:
[quote]How is the speed of a star in the Milky Way measured ?
Isn>t it based on the redshift of spectral lines ?
Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galactic core ?
[/quote]
By the fundamental laws of physics, the gravity redshift of whatever>s
getting pulled away from us, and of the blueshift of whateve>s pushed
or headed our way should skew those spectral lines by +/- whatever
velocity.
- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth |
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Saul Levy
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: What if (on lone Stars) and Lone Gas, Rock Planets |
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Sure, BradBoi! lmfjao!
Do you have any more such WACKO theories? lmao!
Saul Levy
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:25:48 -0700 (PDT), BradGuth
<bradguth@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]You>ll never convince the Zionists/Nazis of our DARPA and Usenet that
our nasty Venus like dry and hot Earth wasn>t pulverized by billions
of God>s magic icy comets and monster snowballs of h2o, that somehow
survived the vacuum and energy trauma of space.
I guess the cosmic laws of physics were entirely different way back
then.
- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth[/quote] |
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Saul Levy
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galacti |
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These are called Doppler shifts, Jeff.
Some stars are moving away (redshift) and some are coming towards us
(blueshifts).
Since galaxies don>t rotate as a solid disk (BEERTbrain has claimed
otherwise!) they do show faster shifts close to the nucleus and slower
shifts farther and farther out.
Saul Levy
On 30 Jul 2008 06:03:47 GMT, Jeff?Relf <Jeff_Relf@Seattle.Invalid>
wrote:
[quote]How is the speed of a star in the Milky Way measured ?
Isn>t it based on the redshift of spectral lines ?
Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galactic core ?[/quote] |
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G=EMC^2 Glazier
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galacti |
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Cactus saul What is a faster or slower shift mean exactly. The hob of
the Milky Way being so intense area million sun BH has to be giving off
very short wave photons after all I read the giant elliptical galaxy M87
has a black hole with the mass of 2.6 solar masses Its disk must be
tremendous. It even has a star density around it of 300 times higher
than normal. It must emit lots and lots of charge particles Gamma X
ray inferred etc. I will go with this first and core spin second. Yes I
see the Milky Way like marching soldiers keep the proper distance from
each other and in lock step. Stars are doing this with few exceptions
Go figure Bert |
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Painius
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: Re: Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galacti |
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"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message...
news:3br094pvnndoo251daf3tj3qmmr8vg5b7v@4ax.com...
[quote]On 30 Jul 2008 06:03:47 GMT, Jeff?Relf <Jeff_Relf@Seattle.Invalid
wrote:
How is the speed of a star in the Milky Way measured ?
Isn>t it based on the redshift of spectral lines ?
Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galactic core ?
These are called Doppler shifts, Jeff.
Some stars are moving away (redshift) and some are coming towards us
(blueshifts).
Since galaxies don>t rotate as a solid disk (BEERTbrain has claimed
otherwise!) they do show faster shifts close to the nucleus and slower
shifts farther and farther out.
[/quote]
Actually, Saul, according to what i>ve read, Bert is more
right than wrong on this. E.g....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_rotation_curve
While velocity studies seem to suggest that the rotation
curve is not perfectly flat, that spiral galaxies don>t go
around in precisely the same manner as a solid disk or
a frisbee, the rotation is a lot more like a solid disk than
Johannes Kepler would have guessed.
It>s certainly not as Keplerian dynamics would predict.
happy days and...
starry starry nights!
--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth
P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!
P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net |
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Saul Levy
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: Re: Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galacti |
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The star is moving faster or slower, BEERTbrain! lmao!
Sheesh!
Saul Levy
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:17:09 -0400, herbertglazier@webtv.net (G=EMC^2
Glazier) wrote:
[quote]Cactus saul What is a faster or slower shift mean exactly. The hob of
the Milky Way being so intense area million sun BH has to be giving off
very short wave photons after all I read the giant elliptical galaxy M87
has a black hole with the mass of 2.6 solar masses Its disk must be
tremendous. It even has a star density around it of 300 times higher
than normal. It must emit lots and lots of charge particles Gamma X
ray inferred etc. I will go with this first and core spin second. Yes I
see the Milky Way like marching soldiers keep the proper distance from
each other and in lock step. Stars are doing this with few exceptions
Go figure Bert[/quote] |
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Odysseus
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:09 am Post subject: Re: Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galacti |
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In article
<fi3kk.140949$102.113652@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Painius" <starswirlernosp@maol.com> wrote:
[quote]"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message...
news:3br094pvnndoo251daf3tj3qmmr8vg5b7v@4ax.com...
[/quote]
<snip>
[quote]Since galaxies don>t rotate as a solid disk (BEERTbrain has claimed
otherwise!) they do show faster shifts close to the nucleus and slower
shifts farther and farther out.
Actually, Saul, according to what i>ve read, Bert is more
right than wrong on this. E.g....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_rotation_curve
While velocity studies seem to suggest that the rotation
curve is not perfectly flat, that spiral galaxies don>t go
around in precisely the same manner as a solid disk or
a frisbee, the rotation is a lot more like a solid disk than
Johannes Kepler would have guessed.
[/quote]
A flat(tish) rotation curve is still nothing like the behaviour of a
solid disk, in which rotational velocity would increase linearly in
proportion to the distance from the centre. So AFAICT to say the members
of a typical galaxy are 'in lockstep' is just as wrong as saying that
such a system is Keplerian -- merely erring in the opposite direction,
overstating rather than understating the rotational velocity of stars in
the outer regions of the disc.
--
Odysseus |
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Painius
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:18 am Post subject: Re: Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galacti |
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"Odysseus" <odysseus1479-at@yahoo-dot.ca> wrote in message...
news:odysseus1479-at-37FA27.15090530072008@news.telus.net...
[quote]In article
fi3kk.140949$102.113652@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Painius" <starswirlernosp@maol.com> wrote:
"Saul Levy" <saullevy1@cox.net> wrote in message...
news:3br094pvnndoo251daf3tj3qmmr8vg5b7v@4ax.com...
snip
Since galaxies don>t rotate as a solid disk (BEERTbrain has claimed
otherwise!) they do show faster shifts close to the nucleus and slower
shifts farther and farther out.
Actually, Saul, according to what i>ve read, Bert is more
right than wrong on this. E.g....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_rotation_curve
While velocity studies seem to suggest that the rotation
curve is not perfectly flat, that spiral galaxies don>t go
around in precisely the same manner as a solid disk or
a frisbee, the rotation is a lot more like a solid disk than
Johannes Kepler would have guessed.
A flat(tish) rotation curve is still nothing like the behaviour of a
solid disk, in which rotational velocity would increase linearly in
proportion to the distance from the centre. So AFAICT to say the members
of a typical galaxy are 'in lockstep' is just as wrong as saying that
such a system is Keplerian -- merely erring in the opposite direction,
overstating rather than understating the rotational velocity of stars in
the outer regions of the disc.
--
Odysseus
[/quote]
Yes, i see it now. Thank you, Odysseus!
happy days and...
starry starry nights!
--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth
P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!
P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net |
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Timberwoof
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: Re: Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galacti |
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In article <17438-4890A215-77@storefull-3331.bay.webtv.net>,
herbertglazier@webtv.net (G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote:
[quote]Cactus saul What is a faster or slower shift mean exactly.
[/quote]
Ever hear a train whistle as it was coming toward you and then as it was
going away? The change in pitch is exactly analogous to the blue and red
shift that astronomers talk about in solar spectra. If the spectral
lines are red-shifted, that means the object is moving away. Blue-shift
means it>s moving toward us. And the relationship is linear: twice the
shift means twice the speed difference. So if the light from a distant
galaxy is more red shifted that another, that means it>s receding
faster.
[quote]The hob of
the Milky Way being so intense area million sun BH has to be giving off
very short wave photons after all I read the giant elliptical galaxy M87
has a black hole with the mass of 2.6 solar masses Its disk must be
tremendous.
[/quote]
Okay, hang on there, pardner! I think some periods and semicolons got
away from you.
[quote]It even has a star density around it of 300 times higher
than normal. It must emit lots and lots of charge particles Gamma X
ray inferred etc. I will go with this first and core spin second. Yes I
see the Milky Way like marching soldiers keep the proper distance from
each other and in lock step. Stars are doing this with few exceptions
[/quote]
Well, that>s not really the case either. Astronomers have measured the
proper motions of nearby stars and the radial motions of nearby and
distant stars, and the picture is definitely not as you describe. Every
star has its own orbit around the Milky Way, and these orbits are
perturbed by all kinds of things.
Proper motion: movement across the sky, measured by different star
position over time.
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/motion/proper.html
Radial motion: movement toward or away from earth, measured by spectral
red shift
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/motion/space.html
[quote]Go figure Bert
[/quote]
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
Official naysayer of the DARPA kind, who knows only of whats accepted by
the Old Testament of the Zionist/Nazi New World Order
which refuses to accept or allow deductive reasoning. |
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Saul Levy
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:04 am Post subject: Re: Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galacti |
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DEFINE SKEW, BradBoi? lmfjao!
The lines shift as the velocities change, but that is all. There is
no such thing as a skew.
Saul Levy
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:12:31 -0700 (PDT), BradGuth
<bradguth@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 29, 11:03 pm, Jeff?Relf <Jeff_R...@Seattle.Invalid> wrote:
How is the speed of a star in the Milky Way measured ?
Isn>t it based on the redshift of spectral lines ?
Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galactic core ?
By the fundamental laws of physics, the gravity redshift of whatever>s
getting pulled away from us, and of the blueshift of whateve>s pushed
or headed our way should skew those spectral lines by +/- whatever
velocity.
- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth[/quote] |
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Saul Levy
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: Re: Might spectral lines vary with distance from the galacti |
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I support that BEERTbrain>s an OLD FART, BradBoi! lmfjao!
With weird theories.
Saul Levy
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:34:57 -0700 (PDT), BradGuth
<bradguth@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]And you are telling this to the Zionist/Nazi son or reincarnation of
Hitler because????
Other than the obvious laws of physics that you and most everyone
agrees with, Is there anything this mutated freak of nature has ever
supported you on?
- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth[/quote] |
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Jeff▲Relf
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: Keplerian-ish goo. |
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As I understand it, ignoring other objects,
the “ action ” ( Velocity * Distance ) per degree
of a comet orbiting the sun is constant ( Keplerian ).
The comet is moving its slowest when it>s farthest from the sun,
at its apogee, where it covers the most distance per degree.
Conversely, If the Milky Way were a perfect frizbee,
the action would be much higher at the edge than the center.
The frizbee is not Keplerian because, for each degree turn,
both the Velocity and the Distance are higher at the edge;
i.e. the “ action ” is much higher at the edge, not constant throughout.
If I>m not mistaken, the Milky Way is part Keplerian, part frizbee;
“ Keplerian-ish goo ”, if you will, where much of the goo goes unseen. |
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