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Maria · Guest

We have a approximately 40 bird including a Wellsummer, Orpington,
Faverolle, French Wheaten Maran, and Cream Legbar Cockerel (along with
3 'assorted' homebred cockerels).

All range over 5 acres of field and stream by day returning home to
roost at night. Everyone has lived a happy and joyful life with no
undue squabbles until now!

We decided to breed our trio of Legbars and separated them from the
flock - popped them into a luxury breeding pen and after ensuring the
hens were clear of cross fertilised eggs, we added the Legbar
Cockerel. This entire process took about 6 weeks and we collected 10
pure eggs which are currently incubating.

From the minute we returned the Trio to the flock - World War Three
broke loose!! Our Legbar Cockerel went on a rampage of carnage
physically hunting down and and slaughtering our other Cockerels
(although he only seemed to pick on the largest two?)

The Wellsummer escaped with damaged combe,cheeks and chest and
bleeding legs - but the Orpington who is a huge and fairly docile bird
copped the lot. He very nearly had his head ripped off, he lost an eye
in the attack, his combe was lacerated and his head covered in blood
and cuts.

We were horrified and immediately separated them all again - the
Wellsummer stayed with the flock, the Orpinton designated to sick bay
and the vet and the Aggressor back to his breeding pen alone.

WHAT DID WE DO WRONG? He is a magnificent specimen of a bird and his
blood line comes from excellent stock....I can>t face getting rid of
him no more than culling him. Will he get over this nonsense if we put
him back to the flock, or will his killing spree continue.

I don>t want any of them to live in small pens, not now they have
known the freedom of 5 acres....what do we do now?

oldmolly · Guest

Maria wrote:

[quote]We have a approximately 40 bird including a Wellsummer, Orpington,
Faverolle, French Wheaten Maran, and Cream Legbar Cockerel (along with
3 'assorted' homebred cockerels).

All range over 5 acres of field and stream by day returning home to
roost at night. Everyone has lived a happy and joyful life with no
undue squabbles until now!

We decided to breed our trio of Legbars and separated them from the
flock - popped them into a luxury breeding pen and after ensuring the
hens were clear of cross fertilised eggs, we added the Legbar
Cockerel. This entire process took about 6 weeks and we collected 10
pure eggs which are currently incubating.

From the minute we returned the Trio to the flock - World War Three
broke loose!! Our Legbar Cockerel went on a rampage of carnage
physically hunting down and and slaughtering our other Cockerels
(although he only seemed to pick on the largest two?)

The Wellsummer escaped with damaged combe,cheeks and chest and
bleeding legs - but the Orpington who is a huge and fairly docile bird
copped the lot. He very nearly had his head ripped off, he lost an eye
in the attack, his combe was lacerated and his head covered in blood
and cuts.

We were horrified and immediately separated them all again - the
Wellsummer stayed with the flock, the Orpinton designated to sick bay
and the vet and the Aggressor back to his breeding pen alone.

WHAT DID WE DO WRONG? He is a magnificent specimen of a bird and his
blood line comes from excellent stock....I can>t face getting rid of
him no more than culling him. Will he get over this nonsense if we put
him back to the flock, or will his killing spree continue.

I don>t want any of them to live in small pens, not now they have
known the freedom of 5 acres....what do we do now?
I am amazed that you have no idea what you did wrong and that a bird[/quote]
had to suffer for your ignorance.
Once you seperated the birds and kept them seperate for any length of
time, they became a seperate flock, not part of the larger flock. The
cockeral was used to being the boss over hhis little harem. One
reintroduced, he proceeded to use his hormonal dominance to defend his
harem from the other cockerals to dire effect.
You seperated them into 2 flocks, you now have 2 flocks. You can get
rid of the other 2 cocks and keep one flock, or maintain 2 seperate
flocks. You can never reintroduce the 3 cocks and expect them to live in
harmony again. Such a pity a poor bloody bird had to lose an eye for you
to learn about flock heirachy :0(

Julian McIlroy · Guest

We had something similar, except our flock was not divided - we just came
home one day to find that "son" had almost killed "dad", despite having
been peaceful until that day.

To cut a long, sad, bloody story short, they could never again be
together. One had to go.

I put some photos up on the newsgroup today - take a look at Wellie and
Butter - what a shame they could not co-exist.

Julian

On 4 Mar 2004 13:09:13 -0800, Maria <mparnell@ntlworld.com> wrote:

[quote]We have a approximately 40 bird including a Wellsummer, Orpington,
Faverolle, French Wheaten Maran, and Cream Legbar Cockerel (along with
3 'assorted' homebred cockerels).

All range over 5 acres of field and stream by day returning home to
roost at night. Everyone has lived a happy and joyful life with no
undue squabbles until now!

We decided to breed our trio of Legbars and separated them from the
flock - popped them into a luxury breeding pen and after ensuring the
hens were clear of cross fertilised eggs, we added the Legbar
Cockerel. This entire process took about 6 weeks and we collected 10
pure eggs which are currently incubating.

From the minute we returned the Trio to the flock - World War Three
broke loose!! Our Legbar Cockerel went on a rampage of carnage
physically hunting down and and slaughtering our other Cockerels
(although he only seemed to pick on the largest two?)

The Wellsummer escaped with damaged combe,cheeks and chest and
bleeding legs - but the Orpington who is a huge and fairly docile bird
copped the lot. He very nearly had his head ripped off, he lost an eye
in the attack, his combe was lacerated and his head covered in blood
and cuts.

We were horrified and immediately separated them all again - the
Wellsummer stayed with the flock, the Orpinton designated to sick bay
and the vet and the Aggressor back to his breeding pen alone.

WHAT DID WE DO WRONG? He is a magnificent specimen of a bird and his
blood line comes from excellent stock....I can>t face getting rid of
him no more than culling him. Will he get over this nonsense if we put
him back to the flock, or will his killing spree continue.

I don>t want any of them to live in small pens, not now they have
known the freedom of 5 acres....what do we do now?
[/quote]

--
Using M2, Opera>s revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Maria · Guest

oldmolly <oldmolly1955@bitches.co.uk> wrote in message news:<4047a100.0@entanet>...
[quote]Maria wrote:

We have a approximately 40 bird including a Wellsummer, Orpington,
Faverolle, French Wheaten Maran, and Cream Legbar Cockerel (along with
3 'assorted' homebred cockerels).

All range over 5 acres of field and stream by day returning home to
roost at night. Everyone has lived a happy and joyful life with no
undue squabbles until now!

We decided to breed our trio of Legbars and separated them from the
flock - popped them into a luxury breeding pen and after ensuring the
hens were clear of cross fertilised eggs, we added the Legbar
Cockerel. This entire process took about 6 weeks and we collected 10
pure eggs which are currently incubating.

From the minute we returned the Trio to the flock - World War Three
broke loose!! Our Legbar Cockerel went on a rampage of carnage
physically hunting down and and slaughtering our other Cockerels
(although he only seemed to pick on the largest two?)

The Wellsummer escaped with damaged combe,cheeks and chest and
bleeding legs - but the Orpington who is a huge and fairly docile bird
copped the lot. He very nearly had his head ripped off, he lost an eye
in the attack, his combe was lacerated and his head covered in blood
and cuts.

We were horrified and immediately separated them all again - the
Wellsummer stayed with the flock, the Orpinton designated to sick bay
and the vet and the Aggressor back to his breeding pen alone.

WHAT DID WE DO WRONG? He is a magnificent specimen of a bird and his
blood line comes from excellent stock....I can>t face getting rid of
him no more than culling him. Will he get over this nonsense if we put
him back to the flock, or will his killing spree continue.

I don>t want any of them to live in small pens, not now they have
known the freedom of 5 acres....what do we do now?
I am amazed that you have no idea what you did wrong and that a bird
had to suffer for your ignorance.
Once you seperated the birds and kept them seperate for any length of
time, they became a seperate flock, not part of the larger flock. The
cockeral was used to being the boss over hhis little harem. One
reintroduced, he proceeded to use his hormonal dominance to defend his
harem from the other cockerals to dire effect.
You seperated them into 2 flocks, you now have 2 flocks. You can get
rid of the other 2 cocks and keep one flock, or maintain 2 seperate
flocks. You can never reintroduce the 3 cocks and expect them to live in
harmony again. Such a pity a poor bloody bird had to lose an eye for you
to learn about flock heirachy :0(
[/quote]

Well now...guess you spent your entire life never having had to learn
any lessons the hard way!!!! And of course, no doubt you were a poulty
EXPERT from day one! Unlike the rest of us mere mortals who have to
learn. However, your comments are valued and appreciated. Thank you
for your interest.

Tony · Guest

Emotions can clearly run high here. And the lesson to learn is everyone can
learn something; even Jill perhaps. Maybe not :-).

In my book, as a complete newbie, you asked for help albeit too late, but...

I can easily see myself in your shoes - despite half a dozen books, a video
and reading up on everything I could, this 'problem' was news to me. I
empathise with what you have gone through, but through your experience I
have grown in my knowledge.

I think the response you got came from the heart rather than the brain and
there but for the grace of newsgroups go I!

I for one, would be grateful for your continued participation in this group;
and this is a group I appreciate very much.

As you say, no one is an expert from day one. A friend gave a cat aspirin
on the misunderstanding of advice from a vet who said 'do NOT give it
aspirin' - killed it stone dead very quickly. Tomorrow my girls have a
plate of strawberries waiting for them - they>ve never had it before and I
have no reason to believe it will harm them, but I will find out from
experience.

Tony

PS: Had an egg today of 90 grams!!! Biggest egg I have ever seen. That
one must have hurt!

"Maria" <mparnell@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bcaeb214.0403051231.2ed7ba03@posting.google.com...
[quote]oldmolly <oldmolly1955@bitches.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<4047a100.0@entanet>...
Maria wrote:

We have a approximately 40 bird including a Wellsummer, Orpington,
Faverolle, French Wheaten Maran, and Cream Legbar Cockerel (along with
3 'assorted' homebred cockerels).

All range over 5 acres of field and stream by day returning home to
roost at night. Everyone has lived a happy and joyful life with no
undue squabbles until now!

We decided to breed our trio of Legbars and separated them from the
flock - popped them into a luxury breeding pen and after ensuring the
hens were clear of cross fertilised eggs, we added the Legbar
Cockerel. This entire process took about 6 weeks and we collected 10
pure eggs which are currently incubating.

From the minute we returned the Trio to the flock - World War Three
broke loose!! Our Legbar Cockerel went on a rampage of carnage
physically hunting down and and slaughtering our other Cockerels
(although he only seemed to pick on the largest two?)

The Wellsummer escaped with damaged combe,cheeks and chest and
bleeding legs - but the Orpington who is a huge and fairly docile bird
copped the lot. He very nearly had his head ripped off, he lost an eye
in the attack, his combe was lacerated and his head covered in blood
and cuts.

We were horrified and immediately separated them all again - the
Wellsummer stayed with the flock, the Orpinton designated to sick bay
and the vet and the Aggressor back to his breeding pen alone.

WHAT DID WE DO WRONG? He is a magnificent specimen of a bird and his
blood line comes from excellent stock....I can>t face getting rid of
him no more than culling him. Will he get over this nonsense if we put
him back to the flock, or will his killing spree continue.

I don>t want any of them to live in small pens, not now they have
known the freedom of 5 acres....what do we do now?
I am amazed that you have no idea what you did wrong and that a bird
had to suffer for your ignorance.
Once you seperated the birds and kept them seperate for any length of
time, they became a seperate flock, not part of the larger flock. The
cockeral was used to being the boss over hhis little harem. One
reintroduced, he proceeded to use his hormonal dominance to defend his
harem from the other cockerals to dire effect.
You seperated them into 2 flocks, you now have 2 flocks. You can get
rid of the other 2 cocks and keep one flock, or maintain 2 seperate
flocks. You can never reintroduce the 3 cocks and expect them to live in
harmony again. Such a pity a poor bloody bird had to lose an eye for you
to learn about flock heirachy :0(

Well now...guess you spent your entire life never having had to learn
any lessons the hard way!!!! And of course, no doubt you were a poulty
EXPERT from day one! Unlike the rest of us mere mortals who have to
learn. However, your comments are valued and appreciated. Thank you
for your interest.[/quote]

C.M.German · Guest

"Tony" <Rodney@10uk.net> wrote in message
news:c2aon2$1qt4p7$1@ID-156344.news.uni-berlin.de...
[quote]Emotions can clearly run high here. And the lesson to learn is everyone
can
learn something; even Jill perhaps. Maybe not :-).

In my book, as a complete newbie, you asked for help albeit too late,
but...

I can easily see myself in your shoes - despite half a dozen books, a
video
and reading up on everything I could, this 'problem' was news to me. I
empathise with what you have gone through, but through your experience I
have grown in my knowledge.

I think the response you got came from the heart rather than the brain and
there but for the grace of newsgroups go I!

I for one, would be grateful for your continued participation in this
group;
and this is a group I appreciate very much.

As you say, no one is an expert from day one. A friend gave a cat aspirin
on the misunderstanding of advice from a vet who said 'do NOT give it
aspirin' - killed it stone dead very quickly. Tomorrow my girls have a
plate of strawberries waiting for them - they>ve never had it before and I
have no reason to believe it will harm them, but I will find out from
experience.

Tony

PS: Had an egg today of 90 grams!!! Biggest egg I have ever seen. That
one must have hurt!

"Maria" <mparnell@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bcaeb214.0403051231.2ed7ba03@posting.google.com...
oldmolly <oldmolly1955@bitches.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<4047a100.0@entanet>...
Maria wrote:

We have a approximately 40 bird including a Wellsummer, Orpington,
Faverolle, French Wheaten Maran, and Cream Legbar Cockerel (along
with
3 'assorted' homebred cockerels).

All range over 5 acres of field and stream by day returning home to
roost at night. Everyone has lived a happy and joyful life with no
undue squabbles until now!

We decided to breed our trio of Legbars and separated them from the
flock - popped them into a luxury breeding pen and after ensuring
the
hens were clear of cross fertilised eggs, we added the Legbar
Cockerel. This entire process took about 6 weeks and we collected 10
pure eggs which are currently incubating.

From the minute we returned the Trio to the flock - World War Three
broke loose!! Our Legbar Cockerel went on a rampage of carnage
physically hunting down and and slaughtering our other Cockerels
(although he only seemed to pick on the largest two?)

The Wellsummer escaped with damaged combe,cheeks and chest and
bleeding legs - but the Orpington who is a huge and fairly docile
bird
copped the lot. He very nearly had his head ripped off, he lost an
eye
in the attack, his combe was lacerated and his head covered in blood
and cuts.

We were horrified and immediately separated them all again - the
Wellsummer stayed with the flock, the Orpinton designated to sick
bay
and the vet and the Aggressor back to his breeding pen alone.

WHAT DID WE DO WRONG? He is a magnificent specimen of a bird and
his
blood line comes from excellent stock....I can>t face getting rid of
him no more than culling him. Will he get over this nonsense if we
put
him back to the flock, or will his killing spree continue.

I don>t want any of them to live in small pens, not now they have
known the freedom of 5 acres....what do we do now?
I am amazed that you have no idea what you did wrong and that a bird
had to suffer for your ignorance.
Once you seperated the birds and kept them seperate for any length of
time, they became a seperate flock, not part of the larger flock. The
cockeral was used to being the boss over hhis little harem. One
reintroduced, he proceeded to use his hormonal dominance to defend his
harem from the other cockerals to dire effect.
You seperated them into 2 flocks, you now have 2 flocks. You can get
rid of the other 2 cocks and keep one flock, or maintain 2 seperate
flocks. You can never reintroduce the 3 cocks and expect them to live
in
harmony again. Such a pity a poor bloody bird had to lose an eye for
you
to learn about flock heirachy :0(

Well now...guess you spent your entire life never having had to learn
any lessons the hard way!!!! And of course, no doubt you were a poulty
EXPERT from day one! Unlike the rest of us mere mortals who have to
learn. However, your comments are valued and appreciated. Thank you
for your interest.

[/quote]

Ahhhh, but if we could all be simple country folk we>d realize things such
as this in a flash ;>)

CM

Tony · Guest

"C.M.German" <cmgerman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:teednadYGeE6etXdRVn-jA@adelphia.com...
[quote]

Ahhhh, but if we could all be simple country folk we>d realize things such
as this in a flash ;>)

CM

[/quote]
Ahhhh, but I grew up in a city of 12 million people where I have learnt to
kick the legs out from under someone with a knife, get on a tube train that
is already three times overloaded, and grumble but with good nature about
spending £3.20 on a pint of beer!

However, with an animal that is a little ball of feathers and a brain the
size of a pea - I know nuffink :-). I>m here to be edikated.

Tony

PS: I rescued a new born lamb today from some barbed wire - very
satisfying.

C.M.German · Guest

"Tony" <Rodney@10uk.net> wrote in message
news:c2apts$1ponmn$1@ID-156344.news.uni-berlin.de...
[quote]
"C.M.German" <cmgerman@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:teednadYGeE6etXdRVn-jA@adelphia.com...

Ahhhh, but if we could all be simple country folk we>d realize things
such
as this in a flash ;>)

CM

Ahhhh, but I grew up in a city of 12 million people where I have learnt to
kick the legs out from under someone with a knife, get on a tube train
that
is already three times overloaded, and grumble but with good nature about
spending £3.20 on a pint of beer!

However, with an animal that is a little ball of feathers and a brain the
size of a pea - I know nuffink :-). I>m here to be edikated.

Tony

PS: I rescued a new born lamb today from some barbed wire - very
satisfying.

[/quote]

Tony........ you sound like my kind of guy!!

CM

oldmolly · Guest

Maria wrote:

[quote]
Well now...guess you spent your entire life never having had to learn
any lessons the hard way!!!! And of course, no doubt you were a poulty
EXPERT from day one! Unlike the rest of us mere mortals who have to
learn. However, your comments are valued and appreciated. Thank you
for your interest.
Don>t take your guilty feelings out on me love. I never said I was an[/quote]
expert. Simply put, I read about poultry keeping before I got them lots
of years ago, plus used a measure of simple common sense.
Ever heard of cockfights? Wonder why they fight? 2 strange cockerels
put together will fight to the death. A little research would have saved
your cockerels the torture and agony you allowed to happen.

Medusa · Guest

Been lurking here for months. For what it is worth, I just learned
something by your experience. Don>t feel too bad. I wouldn>t have known
either.

Jill · Guest

"Maria" <mparnell@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:bcaeb214.0403041309.1c83f933@posting.google.com...
[quote]
WHAT DID WE DO WRONG? He is a magnificent specimen of a bird and his
blood line comes from excellent stock....I can>t face getting rid of
him no more than culling him. Will he get over this nonsense if we put
him back to the flock, or will his killing spree continue.
[/quote]
Weelll Maria

You could have a problem on your hands now
By taking him out you changed the flock balance so he had to reassert
himself again
Its not easy keeping lots of cockerels loose together
Some folks can only ever keep one - it depends on the cockerels not on the
owner

We can get away with lots in some areas of the farm because they all have
lots of space - they have their one defined territories and different places
to sleep. AND we keep hens away from those parts. Bachelor groups.

You have 8 cockerels which is quite a lot to expect to get on
They will be coming into maturity for the first time together
Sexual prowess etc is high on a cockerels agenda.

[quote]
I don>t want any of them to live in small pens, not now they have
known the freedom of 5 acres....what do we do now?
[/quote]
you could try different houses in different parts of the fields with runs
for a bit to allow them to settle with what ? - calculates - 4 hens each
from your flock to each cockerel
Then start letting them out - the Cream legbar first as he seems most
dominant
This way they can establish their own space in the farm.
It may not work but its worth a try
You may have to accept that there are too many boys for their peace of mind

Keep the Orp and Welsie in longest and in houses farthest away from him
If several of the cockerels will sleep together then they can share a house

Its a hard one - but boys will be boys
Good luck

--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

Jill · Guest

"Tony" <Rodney@10uk.net> wrote in message
news:c2aon2$1qt4p7$1@ID-156344.news.uni-berlin.de...
[quote]Emotions can clearly run high here. And the lesson to learn is everyone
can
learn something; even Jill perhaps. Maybe not :-).
[/quote]
I am always learning
There is no such thing as an expert - plenty of ex spurts tho
The books around today are useful but far from comprehensive
Poultry keeping on a domestic level involved much more complex situations
sometimes than they address.

--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

Jill · Guest

"Julian McIlroy" <mcilroy_je@DELETETHISBITyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:opr4du87ocqz2jgj@news.virgin.net...
[quote]We had something similar, except our flock was not divided - we just came
home one day to find that "son" had almost killed "dad", despite having
been peaceful until that day.
[/quote]
yup
that can happen
They have their own politics and their own language and we can only
interpret sometimes

[quote]I put some photos up on the newsgroup today - take a look at Wellie and
Butter - what a shame they could not co-exist.
[/quote]
Very smart birds
http://groups.msn.com/sciagriculturepoultry/julianampanneschickens.msnw?Page
=1
for folks who do not know where this is

--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
[quote]
Julian

On 4 Mar 2004 13:09:13 -0800, Maria <mparnell@ntlworld.com> wrote:

We have a approximately 40 bird including a Wellsummer, Orpington,
Faverolle, French Wheaten Maran, and Cream Legbar Cockerel (along with
3 'assorted' homebred cockerels).

All range over 5 acres of field and stream by day returning home to
roost at night. Everyone has lived a happy and joyful life with no
undue squabbles until now!

We decided to breed our trio of Legbars and separated them from the
flock - popped them into a luxury breeding pen and after ensuring the
hens were clear of cross fertilised eggs, we added the Legbar
Cockerel. This entire process took about 6 weeks and we collected 10
pure eggs which are currently incubating.

From the minute we returned the Trio to the flock - World War Three
broke loose!! Our Legbar Cockerel went on a rampage of carnage
physically hunting down and and slaughtering our other Cockerels
(although he only seemed to pick on the largest two?)

The Wellsummer escaped with damaged combe,cheeks and chest and
bleeding legs - but the Orpington who is a huge and fairly docile bird
copped the lot. He very nearly had his head ripped off, he lost an eye
in the attack, his combe was lacerated and his head covered in blood
and cuts.

We were horrified and immediately separated them all again - the
Wellsummer stayed with the flock, the Orpinton designated to sick bay
and the vet and the Aggressor back to his breeding pen alone.

WHAT DID WE DO WRONG? He is a magnificent specimen of a bird and his
blood line comes from excellent stock....I can>t face getting rid of
him no more than culling him. Will he get over this nonsense if we put
him back to the flock, or will his killing spree continue.

I don>t want any of them to live in small pens, not now they have
known the freedom of 5 acres....what do we do now?

--
Using M2, Opera>s revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/[/quote]

Jill · Guest

"Tony" <Rodney@10uk.net> wrote in message news:c2apts$1ponmn$1@ID-

[quote]However, with an animal that is a little ball of feathers and a brain the
size of a pea - I know nuffink :-).
[/quote]
LOL
I would hazard a suggestion that none of us know half what we think
and they know a lot more !!!!!

I>m here to be edikated.
[quote]
Tony

PS: I rescued a new born lamb today from some barbed wire - very
satisfying.
[/quote]
Well done you - its a good warm feeling when you see them back under Mum
isn;'t it?
Are they yours or a neighbours?
--
regards
Jill Bowis

Pure bred utility chickens and ducks; Housing; Books, Gifts
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine nursery
Holidays in Scotland and Wales
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
[quote]
[/quote]

Maria · Guest

Medusa <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<ced6e579da555ea3425a3b3da2baec76@news.teranews.com>...
[quote]Been lurking here for months. For what it is worth, I just learned
something by your experience. Don>t feel too bad. I wouldn>t have known
either.
[/quote]

Contrary to idiotic belief (read messages above!) of course we have
read, reasearched and taken advice from many quarters about keeping
and maintaining chickens (doesn>t everybody before they launch into a
major venture!!) but just never came across information regarding the
situation we found ourselves in - i wont be beating myself up with a
stick or feeling any guilt about what>s happened because its been part
of a learning stage for us, for which we will be much wiser in future.
If from this posting others have also learned from our unfortunate
problem then a lot of good has come from it.

I>ll also be lurking around here in future to read the postings
because I think this is a great way to share knowledge, and I>ll be
posting as well.

All in all my first experiences of newsgroups has been helpful and
friendly - thanks to all who have or do reply.


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