Science and Technology news... :: View topic - voltage drop and dimmable fluorescent ballasts

TKM · Guest

"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote in message
news:slrngg5d0u.c0a.don@manx.misty.com...
[quote]In <EmqMk.90851$Mh5.90546@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, TKM wrote:

"I.N. Galidakis" <morpheus@olympus.mons> wrote in message
news:1224866136.28434@athprx04...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article <1224847316.246031@athprx04>,
"I.N. Galidakis" <morpheus@olympus.mons> writes:
Victor Roberts wrote:
On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:10:25 +0300, "I.N. Galidakis"
morpheus@olympus.mons> wrote:

Travis Evans wrote:
[snip]

Do phosphored mercury lamps have generally shorter warm-up times
for
some reason, ...?

Yes, they do. The phosphor redirects some of the radiation back to
the
burner and as a result the burner reaches optimal temperature
faster.

I doubt that the phosphor alone can account for the faster
warm-up time. It does not trap or reflect enough energy to
make any significant difference. I agree with Don that the
arc tubes in the two lamps must be different.

It would appear to, but I have done some measurements on two identical
HPM
lamps and the results seem to validate the redirection hypothesis.

The lamps are the HQL 80W and the HQA 80W. The internal construction
is
identical, as they are of exactly the same power. The HQL always warms
up
faster.

Could it be that the UV components which exite the phosphor achieve
higher output first? That cause apparently faster run-up time in a
fluorescent lamp. You could detect this by seeing how the spectral
components ramp up relative to each other during run-up.

I cannot check that, so I cannot tell. However, there>s a dead-on
giveaway,
which provides a sort of a super-clue for the redirection hypothesis:

I have measured the temps of both envelopes and the envelope of the HQL
runs
hotter after warmup. This is the result of having more thermal radiation
produced there. Why is there more thermal at the phosphored glass
envelope?
Because we have energy conversion there. UV -> Vis and apparently as a
byproduct
of the previous, UV -> IR.

On a glass envelope there is still some thermal from absorption, but
most
of the
UV upwards of 350-365nm seems to escape.

The processes: UV -> Vis is not terribly efficient in this case, hence
one
should get some extra heat there. Not very much, but perhaps enough to
make the
envelope a heat radiator which aids the burner in reaching equilibrium
faster.
--
I.N. Galidakis

Did you measure the lamp current vs. time as the lamps warmed up? Higher
current
earlier in the warm-up process would make the lamp warm up faster.

If the lamps are the same, and warmed up on the same ballast, what I
would check for is lamp voltage as a function of time. If lamp B is
actually warming up faster than lamp A, then the voltage across lamp B
will be increasing more rapidly. (The lamp voltage normally decreases
over the first few to several seconds and then increases.)

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
[/quote]
Measuring either lamp voltage or current vs. time would indicate some
differences between the two lamps, of course. My point is that two lamps
that look the same physically may not be the same electrically even if
operated on the same ballast. Are those differences due to lamp-to-lamp
variations or something else like the way the lamp coating handles the
infrared emissions. I don>t know.

HID lamps do vary by as much as 15% from their nominal design voltages from
what I recall and so lamps operate within
"trapezoids" when lamp wattage is plotted against lamp voltage. See an
example (for HPS lamps) at:
https://secure.ge-lightingsystems.com/gels01/r2/productcentral/data/otherPDF/gea12000m_technical_section.pdf
on Page T-7.

Terry McGowan

Victor Roberts · Guest

On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 07:33:23 -0700 (PDT), Boxman
<boxman@voyager.net> wrote:

[quote]The linked article (basically a Press Release) describes microplasma
lighting. Anyone seen the actual product or any opinions on whether
this is viable?

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/eden-park-illumination-announces-new/story.aspx?guid=%7B84955B94-33E4-4014-92DC-D18F338A2D8F%7D&dist=hppr
[/quote]
I especially like the part that says "currently 30 lm/W,
expecting to reach over 100 lm/W."

I agree with Terry that this seems to be a rare gas plasma
panel. Unless they have developed a multi-photon phosphor,
they will not be able to reach 100 lm/W.

They do have a nice web site that explains the technology a
bit further. http://www.edenpark.com/microplasma

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.

Jeff Jonas · Guest

[quote]I intend to acquire an UV sterilizer for my aquarium water, I>ve found out
that the market currently offers 2 technologies: UV Led and mercury vapor
discharge. ...

Are you sure these are UV LEDs?

Water sterilization as far as I know (Sylvania engineering catalog),
depends on the 253.7nm UVC mercury line to be effective,
because this line>s emissions are
very close to the optimal bacteriocidal wavelength for moulds,
bacteria and many gram-positive micro-organisms, such as staph.
Are there LEDs that emit so low, in the vicinity of 253.7nm?
[/quote]
Google finds some:

http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/leduv.htm
ULTRAVIOLET 250-395nm Gallium Nitride

255 nm here:
http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_diverse.htm
http://www.roithner-laser.com/LED_UV_SEOUL.htm

and:
http://www.photonsystems.com/sub/products/leds.php
Deep ultraviolet from an LED
230nm to 280nm
Photon Systems in developing a new family of deep UV
semiconductor light emitting devices.
LED devices between 250nm and 280nm are available now
and LEDs and lasers emitting between 230nm and 280nm are still in development.
Specifications
Model UV LED-280
CW output power: >0.5 mW
Center wavelength 280 Â± 10 nm
Spectral linewidth <20nm FWHM
CW Drive current, forward: <25 mA, max.
Reverse current <100uA max.
Operating voltage, reverse: 6 VDC
Forward voltage 7.5V max.
Max.pulsed drive current: 200 mA at 1% duty cycle
Package TO-39 hermetic package with UV window
8.3mm dia by 4.5mm high

Model UV LED-255
CW output power: >0.1 mW
Center wavelength 255 Â± 10 nm
Spectral linewidth <20nm FWHM
CW Drive current, forward: <25 mA, max.
Reverse current <100uA max.
Operating voltage, reverse: 6 VDC
Forward voltage 7.5V max.
Max.pulsed drive current: 200 mA at 1% duty cycle
Package TO-39 hermetic package with UV window
8.3mm dia by 4.5mm high

Don Klipstein · Guest

In article <geal8r$1aa$1@panix5.panix.com>, Jeff Jonas wrote:
[quote]I intend to acquire an UV sterilizer for my aquarium water, I>ve found out
that the market currently offers 2 technologies: UV Led and mercury vapor
discharge. ...

Are you sure these are UV LEDs?

Water sterilization as far as I know (Sylvania engineering catalog),
depends on the 253.7nm UVC mercury line to be effective,
because this line>s emissions are
very close to the optimal bacteriocidal wavelength for moulds,
bacteria and many gram-positive micro-organisms, such as staph.
Are there LEDs that emit so low, in the vicinity of 253.7nm?

Google finds some:
[/quote]
<Examples, in short>

Notice the output powers - milliwatt and fractional milliwatt range.
Low pressure mercury germicidal lamps mostly produce watts of 253.7 nm UV.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

Ossi Björklund · Guest

TEM TYÖ JA ELINKEINOMINISTERIÖ
________________________

Helsingissä 27. päivänä toukokuuta 2008

"Mielipiteitten esittäminen julkisuuteen nettiin valtiovallan
erityissuojeluksessa."

"Voi esittää mielipiteitä ja antaa ydinkriittisiä lausuntoja kirjallisesti
toimittamalla ne työ- ja elinkeinministeriön kirjaamoon tai ministeriön
viralliseen sähköpostiosoitteseen kuuleminen@tem.fi) viimeistään 25.07.2008.
Annetuissa lausunnoissa pyydetään viittaamaan diaarinumeroon
820/815/2008."Kaiki innolla mukaan nuijimaan ydinrikosta ihmiskuntaa vasteen
kohden lopullista päättävää Nyyrbergin oikeudenkäyntiään! Sinä, juuri sinä
laiskahkosti olutta ja naksuja ryystävä olet tähtäimessämme! Ota ikionkeesi
ja koska gallubin mukaan inhoat syvästi ydinvoimarikosta ja olet kasvavassa
2/3 osan maailmankattavan ydinvastustaiuuden syvä toivo PIRISTY! Jo YKSI
keskeinen esiin tuotu ydinhaitta voi upottaa koko läpimädän
korruptioydinlaivan pysyvästi. Tavalla, josta miljoonat lapsenlapsemme
tulevat kultaisin patsain kiittämään.

*JUURI SINÄ TÄSSÄ JA NYT. Ydinvoima on tieten tehty valtiomonopolinen
ydinsodan julistus kansaamme vastaan. Jonka estämisessä JUURI sinulla on se
tärkein ääni esittää loppumisen puolesta. EU onkin jo antanut Euroopan
laajuiset uudisenergian kasvuvaateet vuoteen 2020 +25% lisäpakottein
ydinvoimaloiden alasajoksi. Vuoteen 2050 mennessä luku taas jo tuplataan
maailman KAIKEN ydinasevarusteluenergian tappamiseksi maailman kartalta. Nyt
sinulla rakas kansalainen on oma osasi tässä taistelussasi ydinkiimaa
vastaan! Toimi tässä ja nyt. Koska syntymättömät kärsijät eivät siihen
kykene. Ydinvoima tappaa jo nyt maailmalla 7,3miljoonaa vuosittain. Aiotko
havahtua vasta kun nollia tulee lisää ja mitään ei ole enää tehtävissä?

*****************************************
**Suunnattoman sukseen ja megasuosion saavuttanut YVA-07 raporttisaetti oli
jo niin verraton setti, että kaipaa VÄLITÖNTÄ jatkoaan. Maamme brutaali
tapaa sensuroida ydinkritiikiä on synnyttänyt pahaa verta aina muistamiimme
"Lipposhaukkujaisiin" EU/Saksaa myöten. Siksi myös TEM/Posiva ja muut
huolestuneet ydinterroriepäillyvarjostuneet haluavat turvata iloksemme
Sisäministerikontroloinnin saavuttamattoman ja lehtisensuroinneista
piittaamattoman VIRALISEN YDINKRITIIKIN KANAVAN suojelukseensa! Ja koska
YVA-07 oli kiistaton kritiikinkannuksen suksee päättää siis Posiva/TEM ja
itse valtiohallinto edustajiensa (ent. KTM)Jorma Aurelan, Posivan Äikään,
Seppälän, Friiberien yms. ja vastaavien massiivisin verotukiaistuein
toimeenpaneman kamppanjakoostein aukaista JÄLLEEN ovet ydinkritiikivyörystä
saranoiltaan paiskovan vapaan ydinkritiikifoorumin! Haluatko, että SINUN
kaukoviisaan ja "Ytimekkään" ydinvastaviisautesi kylkeen tulee Suomen
karjuvan valtioleijonan vahvistama virallinen leimaus ja notuuli vapaaseen
luentaan ilman Sisäministeriestoja?

**Haluatko, että tulevassa ydinrikosoikeudenkäynnissä Haagissa ydinala
vastaa juuri SINUN esittämiin ydinrikossyytteisiin ihmisyyttä vastaan?
Varmista ihmeessä eturivin syyttäjän paikka lastemme riemuksi. Ylpeänä he
voivat kertoa olleensa syyttämässä TVO/Posivoita jo ennen syntymäänsä
kauttasi. Vielä vuosituhansien päästä varmistat materiaalisi säilymisen
historiallisena raportina ajastaikaan ja olet ikiajan kiitelty
ydinvastavirtuoosi ilman ajan hampaan purentaa. Kaiken tämän, ja paljon
enemmän juuri sinulle haluaa ydinhallintomme/TEM taata kätösinsä vaivojaan
säästämättä. Kaikki intomiellä mukaan. Ydinala pyytää raippoja, ennenkaikkea
julkista ruoskintaa ja konstailemattoman aitoja syitä ydinvastaisen Suomen
hurjaan järkiytymiseen ydinkritikitsunamein. Tällä kertaa teemamme
olkoon:"SATA VALITUSTA RIKKI, ettei TEM:n tarvitse enää huokailla H.S:n
tiedotteensa mitättömänpienin alle sadan valituksin!"
*********************************

Adam Aglionby · Guest

On 6 Dec, 16:27, "rgrgrgr" <rgrer...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
[quote]I need to replace a Metal Halide lamp in a light fitting. The bulb is
marked:
SYLVANIA METALARC HSI-TD 150W/NDL UV-STOP. It>s about 130mm long.

None of the Internet retailers I already have an account with stock this
exact lamp, so I>m trying to figure out what other lamps might be
compatible. Does anyone know if one of these would work?

http://uk.farnell.com/osram/h150nd-hqi-ts/lamp-halide-neutral-150w/dp...
(seems compatible but this lamp specifies a 90V supply - does the light
fitting contain a transformer?)

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/25381/Lighting/Lamps/HID-Lamps/Powersta...
(seems compatible, but claims to be 180mm long - a typo?)
[/quote]
crossposted to sci.engr.lighting

Sylvania is mainly U.S. brand of Osram, 90V will be taken care of by
the ballast , not a transformer possibly still big lump of iron in
fitting.

Looks like a fairly standard 150W single ended tubular lamp, depends
if you need a very specific colour.

Adam

Guest

In sci.engr.lighting Adam Aglionby <ledlight@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On 6 Dec, 16:27, "rgrgrgr" <rgrer...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I need to replace a Metal Halide lamp in a light fitting. The bulb is
marked:
SYLVANIA METALARC HSI-TD 150W/NDL UV-STOP. It>s about 130mm long.
[/quote]
Googling this marking yields
http://www.golamp.co.kr/sylvania/hid_hsitd.htm , which says your lamp is
150 W, 95 V, 1.8 A, Rx7s base, 137 mm long x 24 mm diameter, clear
glass, 4200 K color temperature, 13,000 lumens.

[quote]http://uk.farnell.com/osram/h150nd-hqi-ts/lamp-halide-neutral-150w/dp...
[/quote]
This got cut off in the cross-post (Google Groups is many things, but a
good newsreader it isn>t), but doing a search at Farnell shows that
Farnell stock numbers 1528728 (current stock) or 3415880 (limited to
stock on hand) will probably replace the lamp you have.

Stock numbers 1528727 (current) or 3415879 (limited) will also work, but
the light color will be a little different - these are "warm white" and
more yellow than the lamp you have now. The difference is the color
temperature - the number that>s usually a few thousand degrees Kelvin.
The lamp you have now is rated 4200 K and these two are rated 3000 K.
As a comparison, a standard incandescent lamp will be something like
2700-2900 K. All of these lamps sell for about £17 at Farnell, which
seems a little high.

[quote](seems compatible but this lamp specifies a 90V supply - does the
light fitting contain a transformer?)
[/quote]
Yes. There is a ballast that limits the current (and hence voltage) to
the lamp.

[quote]http://www.screwfix.com/prods/25381/Lighting/Lamps/HID-Lamps/Powersta...
(seems compatible, but claims to be 180mm long - a typo?)
[/quote]
It>s a complete typo; it also claims to be 158 mm diameter, which it
clearly isn>t. This lamp at £10, or Screwfix 47458 at £20, both would
seem to be a good match.

RS stock number 569-644 at £17 also seems to be a good match.

I>m pretty sure I>ve seen lamps like this on the shelf at general
home-improvement retailers like Lowe>s and Home Depot (in the US).
Homebase is probably the equivalent store in the UK. They don>t list
such a lamp on their site, but (in the US) these stores only show a
fraction of their stock on their Web sites, so they may well have it in
the store. Take the old one with you if you>re shopping in person.

Matt Roberds

Andrew Gabriel · Guest

In article <dZH_k.13461$v37.2297@newsfe01.iad>,
mroberds@worldnet.att.net writes:
[quote]I>m pretty sure I>ve seen lamps like this on the shelf at general
home-improvement retailers like Lowe>s and Home Depot (in the US).
Homebase is probably the equivalent store in the UK. They don>t list
such a lamp on their site, but (in the US) these stores only show a
fraction of their stock on their Web sites, so they may well have it in
the store. Take the old one with you if you>re shopping in person.
[/quote]
None of the UK sheds will have it. B&Q stock one sodium lamp,
and I think that>s it for HID lamps. All electrical trade
counters will have it in stock, but you probably won>t have
any choice of colour temperature there. Personally, I prefer
warm white for night-time lighting. They usually aren>t quite
as efficient as the colder/bluer colours though.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Adam Aglionby · Guest

On 11 Dec, 15:08, unope...@mail.com wrote:
[quote]On 11 Dec, 14:58, Mike Clarke <UCEbl...@milibyte.co.uk> wrote:

David Hansen wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:21:17 +0000 someone who may be M
marilynmu...@live.com> wrote this:-

...12V halogens should be safe for a while yet. But it might
not be wise to buy any new halogen light fittings.

By my reading of the proposed EU legislation 'a while yet' means up to
2016. It>s unclear if non-infra-red coated halogens (which presumably
would be energy efficiency class C) would be available after then. It
does give halogen lamp manufacturers a while to get the efficiencies
up, and for suitable alternatives to be found.

Cheers,

Sid
[/quote]
IR Reflective envelope halogen has been around a while, as you say
just not popularly available.
Typically 42W lamp repaces a 50w LV lamp.

My reading of the draft puts IR reflective lamps into Class B
efficiency and would hope within next 8 years IR halogens are much
more common.

LV halogen is considerably more efficient than mains voltage halogen
and believe the legislation is looking to get rid of K series mains
linear halogen lamps used in outdoor floodlights and `torchiere` style
floor lamps.
Vic Roberts on sci.engr lighting I know is not a fan of these types of
fittings.
More efficient IR reflective envelope versions of these lamps do
exist.

Also looks like GU10 mains voltage MR16 halogens are also being
targeted, which frankly is fair enough, their rotten on efficiency,
beam control and life span issues.

What is not being targeted is Low Voltage Halogen lighting including
MR16s and capsule lamps which have many years service to go yet,
though anything may happen in other source development in next 8
years,a considerable installed base of this type of lighting will be
remaining to be serviced.

Would advise, as always have that GU10 lighting is a waste of time
money and effort, but that decent LV lighting will continue to be
supported for the forseeable future.

LED is not a drop in replacement in most circumstances.

As to politicians having a clue about what their doing, may I point
out my previous rant about "renewable lighting" and my Green Party
Member for the Scottish Parliament, Robin Harper M.S.P. being unable
to answer any questions about the lighting load of the building he
works in despite supposedly sitting on the internal committee advising
on Energy Efficiency of the Parliament building.

Suggest that people put on their best Paxman look of dis-belief and
ask their local public servants for a comprehensive answer:

http://www.writetothem.com

Adam

Andrew Gabriel · Guest

In article <fabc42f1-cd3b-4d39-9354-532c1ec797d2@w1g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
Adam Aglionby <ledlight@gmail.com> writes:
[quote]IR Reflective envelope halogen has been around a while, as you say
just not popularly available.
Typically 42W lamp repaces a 50w LV lamp.

My reading of the draft puts IR reflective lamps into Class B
[/quote]
240V filament lamps of high power (> 200W) IR reflective scrape
into Class C. I suspect you>re only going to manage Class B by
going to a more optimum filament supply voltage (which is of the
order 55V for a 100W lamp).

[quote]efficiency and would hope within next 8 years IR halogens are much
more common.
[/quote]
IR coatings only really work where the bulb shape reflects and
focuses the heat back onto the filament evenly along its length.
That generally requires specific lamp geometries such as the
filament positioned centrally in a tube, and lots of halogen lamps
are not suitable geometry.

I>ve only seen them in this country on the 300W and 500W linear
halogen tubes (which are then 225W and 375W respectively) made
by GE. I asked GE a few years ago if they would be adding IR
coating to any more halogens in the UK, and answer was along the
lines of probably not, as people interested in lighting efficiency
don>t use halogens in the first place, so there>s not much market
for efficient halogens in the UK.

[quote]LV halogen is considerably more efficient than mains voltage halogen
and believe the legislation is looking to get rid of K series mains
linear halogen lamps used in outdoor floodlights and `torchiere` style
floor lamps.
[/quote]
My reading of it is that these are the only existing mains halogens
which will remain, as they>re the only ones which scrape into Class
C (providing you use the IR coated ones, and they>re > 200W).

[quote]Vic Roberts on sci.engr lighting I know is not a fan of these types of
fittings.
[/quote]
They were alledged to be a significant source of fires in the US,
often due to falling over or against curtains. For UL listing, they
now need to be able to fall over against a muslin cloth without
igniting it. I>ve not see any such fires reported in the UK, but
they were never as common over here in the first place.

[quote]More efficient IR reflective envelope versions of these lamps do
exist.
[/quote]
The GE ones, 225W and 375W. They are sometimes available in B&Q,
but are otherwise pretty impossible to find in any shops, without
going on-line to search. They are significantly more expensive
than their non-IR counterparts, but still give you a financial
saving (unlike the Philips Master Classic technology, for example,
which won>t pay for itself in energy savings).

[quote]Also looks like GU10 mains voltage MR16 halogens are also being
targeted, which frankly is fair enough, their rotten on efficiency,
beam control and life span issues.
[/quote]
Agree completely.

[quote]What is not being targeted is Low Voltage Halogen lighting including
MR16s and capsule lamps which have many years service to go yet,
though anything may happen in other source development in next 8
years,a considerable installed base of this type of lighting will be
remaining to be serviced.

Would advise, as always have that GU10 lighting is a waste of time
money and effort, but that decent LV lighting will continue to be
supported for the forseeable future.

LED is not a drop in replacement in most circumstances.
[/quote]
Commercially, metal halide has replaced those in the UK. The only
reason it hasn>t entered the domestic market is initial purchase
price. That>s a problem the Chinese are very good at solving for us.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

John Rumm · Guest

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

[quote]The GE ones, 225W and 375W. They are sometimes available in B&Q,
but are otherwise pretty impossible to find in any shops, without
going on-line to search. They are significantly more expensive
[/quote]
I noticed they were in Makro the other day - at about the same price as
a pack of 5 of the normal ones.

[quote]than their non-IR counterparts, but still give you a financial
saving (unlike the Philips Master Classic technology, for example,
which won>t pay for itself in energy savings).
[/quote]
I went for the cheaper ones since I was looking for replacement for my
tripod work lights - and half the benefit of those in this weather is
the heat they produce!

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Victor Roberts · Guest

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:22:57 -0800 (PST), Adam Aglionby
<ledlight@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

[quote]
IR Reflective envelope halogen has been around a while, as you say
just not popularly available.
Typically 42W lamp repaces a 50w LV lamp.

My reading of the draft puts IR reflective lamps into Class B
efficiency and would hope within next 8 years IR halogens are much
more common.

LV halogen is considerably more efficient than mains voltage halogen
and believe the legislation is looking to get rid of K series mains
linear halogen lamps used in outdoor floodlights and `torchiere` style
floor lamps.
Vic Roberts on sci.engr lighting I know is not a fan of these types of
fittings.
[/quote]
???????

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.

Petteri Long · Guest

Pienipäistä moraalia, suuret toleranssit.

Jälleen kerran asiaa, jota maassamme tuskin kourallinen edes tietää. OL-3
työmaan mokailut on jo alansa klassikoita. Mutta jopa siinä ilmapiirissä
tämä hakee kyllä vertaistaan minusta. Ydinvoimalan suunnittelu oli enemmän
kuin hakusessa jo startista asti ja se meinaan näkyy. Ja siksi TVO on
suluttanut työmaan megamokia henkilökuntaansa tarkoin uhkaillen ja
painostaen vaikenemaan. No työläiset ovat siis kuukausimääriä lekailleet
haperia puolalaisia suojapellinkuoria paikoilleen. Metalliosissa todetut
massiiviset tuumaluokkaiset megatoleranssivirheet on toki jo niineen
tuhoisan tulevaisuuden takuutavaraa, mutta kun niitä runnotaan väkipakolla
vängällä paikkoihin jonne eivät sovi, niin puhutaan ydinreaktorin
suoranaisesta ja tahallisesta miinoittamisesta!

No ydinalalla nyt ei tunnetusti TVO/ STUK:lle ja vastaaville ole niin tuuman
päälle, pääasia että meteliä tulee ja palkat juoksee. Tulevat sukupolvet
sitten tällaista huumoria hengillään toki maksaa ja maksattaa. Mutta täytyy
sanoa, ettei tämmöiset ole kuin, no hei alkupaloja, jatkossa päästään kiinni
itse "juttuun"! OL-3 voimalaa oli jo kuukausimääriä rakennettu ongelmitta.
Kukaan ei huomannut yhtään mitään. Sitten eräänä kauniina päivänä
puolalainen ydinorja, ei toki insinööri, eiväthän ne mitään oikeasti osaa,
saati uskalla. Vaan arkinen perustyöläinen alkoi pohtia. Hänestä oli hiukan
"outoa", että voimalaan merivesi tuli moottoritien levyistä jokea pitkin,
mutta.. .. Niin tosiaan minnes se katoaa, kaveri alkoi kysellä kummissaan?

Vaikka tässä nyt mitään outoa. Ydinvoimalasta oli vaan kas hienoa
yksinkertaisesti UNOHTUNUT moinen pikku nyanssi. Ranskassa kun sellaisia
turhakkeita ei oltu ikään kuin "totuttu" käyttämään haihdutustornien takia.
Paljonkos sellaiset poistokanavat mahtipontisia ydininsinöörejä kiinnostaa?
No tuumasta toimeen ja summamutikassa lyijykynällä kämmensyrjällä kuvaan
hutaistaan kanavalle räjäytysreikä. Joten se siitä ja koko työmaa uusiksi!
No kanava saadaan ja kaikki huokaisevat, ettei lehdistö saanut vihiä ja
naurut jäi tulematta. Meni taas muutama tovi. Lieneekö ollut tämä
puolalaisorja, tuskin koska ydinalalla älykkyyttä ei suvaita toki. Kaveri
oli siis lempattu, poissa jaloista haittaamassa ydinnerouden
ilmentymäklamouria. Ehkä se silti on puolalaisissa ydinorjissa geeneissä,
että huomaavat? Yhtä kaikki pian oli huomiona, että kanava oli pikkaisen
ahdas. Juu ei mitään senttejä, ei edes kymmeniä. ..Niin kunnon OL-3 tyyliin
heittoja METREISSÄ ja USEAMPI! .

No sitten aivoriihtä pystyyn, että miten moka taas salataan ja
miljarditappiot piilotetaan? No yhtä kaikki megasuurta piikkausta, kun
räjäyttelyt sortaisivat koko ydinhyyskän. Voi kuvitella mitä metrien
levyinen piikkausurakka tarkoittaa? No ehkä räjäyttely ei olisi ollut
lainkaan tuomassa lisäriskejä silti? 17.05-08 lehdet kun häpeillen TVO:n
megamokia kertoilivat miten Olkiluodon seinät suorastaan tursuavat sinne jo
valmiiksi kätkettyjä ties mitä räjähdysaineistusta. Oli löytynyt kuulema
niin paljon ja lukuisista paikoista, että. .. no hei kun moka on tehty, niin
syyllistetään ketä käsiin saadaan. Eli asia on mennyt nyt poliisitutkintaan!
No mitä uutta ydinalalle tässä enää on, en todella tiedä. Mutta ehkä näin
suomalaispoliisivyörytyksellä saadaan ydinvoimalatyömaan pian 80 % <
ulkomaalaisorjajoukkojen sekaan viimein myös
suomalaisbroletariaatipoliisitutkijoita! Hu heijaa, menee taas ydinalamme
niin sotkuiseksi, ettei näitä maassamme lisäkseni kukaan edes osaa, saati
tiedä tiedottaa. No tässä mitään, TVO:kin puolusteli, ettei valmiiksi
miinoitettuja ydinvoimalan seinämiä kannata ihmetellä saati surra!? Toki,
toki, mutta miksei? No koska jopa Areva on jo pitkään sen kiteyttänyt
käyttökelvottomaksi käsiin "räjähtäväksi jo alkujaan epäonnistuneeksi
koekyhäelmäksi". Ja taas ydinaiheesta lisää jahka saan naurultani
näpyteltyä.)

Adam Aglionby · Guest

On 13 Dec, 14:20, Victor Roberts <x...@lighting-research.com> wrote:
[quote]On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:22:57 -0800 (PST), Adam Aglionby

ledli...@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

IR Reflective envelope halogen has been around a while, as you say
just not popularly available.
Typically 42W lamp repaces a 50w LV lamp.

My reading of the draft puts IR reflective lamps into Class B
efficiency and would hope within next 8 years IR halogens are much
more common.

LV halogen is considerably more efficient than mains voltage halogen
and believe the legislation is looking to get rid of K series mains
linear halogen lamps used in outdoor floodlights and `torchiere` style
floor lamps.
Vic Roberts on sci.engr lighting I know is not a fan of these types of
fittings.

???????

--
Vic Robertshttp://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.
[/quote]
Sorry Vic, sure there was someone in lighting that had an absolute
hate of halogen torchieres, mainly due to fire risk as Andrew said,
quick look on google groups only puts you down as syaing there are no
nice ones :-)

If only mass manufacturers would scale some commercial fittings to
domestic duty and price, 150W CDM uplighter/torchiere would do nicely.

Adam

Victor Roberts · Guest

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:10:46 -0800 (PST), Adam Aglionby
<ledlight@gmail.com> wrote:

[quote]On 13 Dec, 14:20, Victor Roberts <x...@lighting-research.com> wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:22:57 -0800 (PST), Adam Aglionby

ledli...@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

IR Reflective envelope halogen has been around a while, as you say
just not popularly available.
Typically 42W lamp repaces a 50w LV lamp.

My reading of the draft puts IR reflective lamps into Class B
efficiency and would hope within next 8 years IR halogens are much
more common.

LV halogen is considerably more efficient than mains voltage halogen
and believe the legislation is looking to get rid of K series mains
linear halogen lamps used in outdoor floodlights and `torchiere` style
floor lamps.
Vic Roberts on sci.engr lighting I know is not a fan of these types of
fittings.

???????

--
Vic Robertshttp://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.

Sorry Vic, sure there was someone in lighting that had an absolute
hate of halogen torchieres, mainly due to fire risk as Andrew said,
quick look on google groups only puts you down as syaing there are no
nice ones :-)

If only mass manufacturers would scale some commercial fittings to
domestic duty and price, 150W CDM uplighter/torchiere would do nicely.

Adam
[/quote]
Adam,

The day after I posted my ??? I read the message again and
understood your comment :-)

--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
To reply via e-mail:
replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

This information is provided for educational purposes only.
It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
site without written permission.


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