Science and Technology news... :: View topic - UK law

A.Lee · Guest

I posted here a couple of weeks ago about a cat attacking one of my
Ducks.
Anyway, the same cat has been sniffing around again, and it is a big
cat, so quite capable of killing a duck - luckily they saw it this time,
and made a fast run for the house.
I know I can kill a fox, rats or other vermin on my land.
Farmers are allowed to shoot dogs that attack their animals, so would it
be legal to either kill, or trap this cat?

Any thoughts?
Thanks
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

wafflycat · Guest

"A.Lee" <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote in message
news:1ijeyku.dobq49ejt8hsN%alan@darkroom.+.com...
[quote]I posted here a couple of weeks ago about a cat attacking one of my
Ducks.
Anyway, the same cat has been sniffing around again, and it is a big
cat, so quite capable of killing a duck - luckily they saw it this time,
and made a fast run for the house.
I know I can kill a fox, rats or other vermin on my land.
Farmers are allowed to shoot dogs that attack their animals, so would it
be legal to either kill, or trap this cat?

[/quote]

Cats are not vermin. How about instead of trying to kill the animal, you
trap it as a stray, take it to a shelter and they find it a home away from
you... There really is no need to kill it. That>s inhumane. There>s ducks on
the stream at the end of my garden. My three cats don>t bother them. Nor to
my cats bother the hens. Are you sure it>s the cat that attacked your duck?

Jill · Guest

A.Lee wrote:
[quote]I posted here a couple of weeks ago about a cat attacking one of my
Ducks.
Anyway, the same cat has been sniffing around again, and it is a big
cat, so quite capable of killing a duck - luckily they saw it this
time, and made a fast run for the house.
I know I can kill a fox, rats or other vermin on my land.
Farmers are allowed to shoot dogs that attack their animals, so would
it be legal to either kill, or trap this cat?

Any thoughts?
[/quote]
The first thought is that it IS rare for cats to go for ducks particularly,
its pretty rare for them to bother with chickens, but the latter are a
little flighty and responsive.
Ducks so rarely see the domestic cat as a threat that they just do not react
in ways that trigger cats hunting response -- IN GENERAL.
Having said all that I know of enough, rare, instances of cats that have
taken on domestic poultry and waterfowl to know that its perfectly possible.

The fact that its large enough to be capable does not mean it is the
cuprit - unless actually seen and recorded it will always be taken as a poor
candidate.

If you have previous actually witnessed the cats attack then work the local
area to find out who>s cat it is.
Cats CAN travel great distances but in reality stay pretty well within a
square mile of home. and usually a LOT less.
We have one that is now being a pain around the house, unfortunately our
dominant cat is also the most tolerant feline we have ever met [and that is
saying something having been involved in hundreds of cats lives] - we REALLY
need to find out who>s he isas he is stinking a number of houses out! as
well as making himself far too comfortable everywhere without any charm or
friendliness.

This document may help you concerning the current status of the law in the
UK and cats
http://www.cats.org.uk/catcare/leaflets/EG10-Catsandthelaw.pdf

It is up to all of us to protect our animals from predators, so you might
want to consider closemesh electric netting to enforce the boundaries of the
ducks area in your garden.
It will not harm any animal and cats are particularly canny about electric
net but it gives you the piece of mind.

--
regards
Jill Bowis

Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

Guest

Jill <news@nospamkintaline.co.uk> wrote:
[quote]net but it gives you the piece of mind.

.... a piece of whose mind?[/quote]

--
Chris Green

Jill · Guest

tinnews@isbd.co.uk wrote:
[quote]Jill <news@nospamkintaline.co.uk> wrote:
net but it gives you the piece of mind.

... a piece of whose mind?
[/quote]
giggle -- sorry, fingers under their own control as usual
"peace of mind"
<bow>

--
regards
Jill Bowis

Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

Christina Websell · Guest

" Jill" <news@NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6cvep8F2nc6U1@mid.individual.net...
[quote]A.Lee wrote:
I posted here a couple of weeks ago about a cat attacking one of my
Ducks.
Anyway, the same cat has been sniffing around again, and it is a big
cat, so quite capable of killing a duck - luckily they saw it this
time, and made a fast run for the house.
I know I can kill a fox, rats or other vermin on my land.
Farmers are allowed to shoot dogs that attack their animals, so would
it be legal to either kill, or trap this cat?

Any thoughts?

The first thought is that it IS rare for cats to go for ducks
particularly, its pretty rare for them to bother with chickens, but the
latter are a little flighty and responsive.
Ducks so rarely see the domestic cat as a threat that they just do not
react in ways that trigger cats hunting response -- IN GENERAL.
Having said all that I know of enough, rare, instances of cats that have
taken on domestic poultry and waterfowl to know that its perfectly
possible.

The fact that its large enough to be capable does not mean it is the
cuprit - unless actually seen and recorded it will always be taken as a
poor candidate.

If you have previous actually witnessed the cats attack then work the
local area to find out who>s cat it is.
Cats CAN travel great distances but in reality stay pretty well within a
square mile of home. and usually a LOT less.
We have one that is now being a pain around the house, unfortunately our
dominant cat is also the most tolerant feline we have ever met [and that
is saying something having been involved in hundreds of cats lives] - we
REALLY need to find out who>s he isas he is stinking a number of houses
out! as well as making himself far too comfortable everywhere without any
charm or friendliness.

This document may help you concerning the current status of the law in the
UK and cats
http://www.cats.org.uk/catcare/leaflets/EG10-Catsandthelaw.pdf

It is up to all of us to protect our animals from predators, so you might
want to consider closemesh electric netting to enforce the boundaries of
the ducks area in your garden.
It will not harm any animal and cats are particularly canny about electric
net but it gives you the piece of mind.

--
regards
Jill Bowis

Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk

[/quote]
Just reproducing your post in full so wafflycat can see it. I believe she
plonked you after you didn>t agree about battery hen rescue. You>re not all
bad at all, are you Jill? ;-)))

Tina

A_ L _P · Guest

wafflycat wrote:
[quote]
"A.Lee" <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote in message
news:1ijeyku.dobq49ejt8hsN%alan@darkroom.+.com...
I posted here a couple of weeks ago about a cat attacking one of my
Ducks.
Anyway, the same cat has been sniffing around again, and it is a big
cat, so quite capable of killing a duck - luckily they saw it this time,
and made a fast run for the house.
I know I can kill a fox, rats or other vermin on my land.
Farmers are allowed to shoot dogs that attack their animals, so would it
be legal to either kill, or trap this cat?

Cats are not vermin. How about instead of trying to kill the animal, you
trap it as a stray, take it to a shelter and they find it a home away
from you... There really is no need to kill it.
[/quote]
According to Jill that>s a distinct possibility. Neither she nor I (to
mention but 2) sees ducks as being likely to be attacked by cats - but
there>s always a cat who is an exception to any rule!

[quote]That>s inhumane.
[/quote]
What animals *is* it humane to kill? Rats?

[quote]There>s
ducks on the stream at the end of my garden. My three cats don>t bother
them. Nor to my cats bother the hens. Are you sure it>s the cat that
attacked your duck?
[/quote]
Yes, I wonder if the injuries are particularly consistent with cat attack.

My friend found a great clump of feathers and one of her free-range
chickens had a big bare patch. We were very concerned. Were there any
dogs in the area that she>d seen wandering uncontrolled? No. What on
earth could it be?

At the same time her cat, a big-boned (to put it politely) nice but dim
fellow, had to be taken to the vet with a sore leg.

He recovered. The chook started sprouting feathers.

Then one day my friend saw the cat out there crouching ready to leap at
the chook. This time he was spotted. The chook took off with a great
deal of flapping and squawking at the same time as my friend bellowed at
the cat. Between the two he appears to have been sufficiently
traumatised to give up big game hunting. And we have an explanation for
the injuries to feathers and leg.

A L P

A.Lee · Guest

wafflycat <w*a*ffl£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:
[quote]"A.Lee" <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote in message ...
I know I can kill a fox, rats or other vermin on my land.
Farmers are allowed to shoot dogs that attack their animals, so would it
be legal to either kill, or trap this cat?

Cats are not vermin. How about instead of trying to kill the animal, you
trap it as a stray, take it to a shelter and they find it a home away from
you... There really is no need to kill it. That>s inhumane.
[/quote]
Well yes, but paying for a vets bill, and seeing a duck suffering is
also not a happy experience.Whether they are vermin or not, I have a
duty to protect my ducks, and I dont consider making them live in a
wired pen to be a reasonable thing to do, hence the need to do something
about this cat.
Farmers are allowed to shoot dogs, and generally dogs are not considered
vermin, but stock has to be protected.

[quote]There>s ducks on
the stream at the end of my garden. My three cats don>t bother them. Nor to
my cats bother the hens. Are you sure it>s the cat that attacked your duck?
[/quote]
Yes, it was a fat black cat that had them. I have seen it numerous times
in the last 4 weeks, usually hiding in a corner of the garden, or sat
under a bush ready to pounce.
I>d agree that normally cats are not a problem with ducks, but this one
is.
Ta
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

ooptec · Guest

[quote]"A.Lee" <a...@darkroom.+.com> wrote in message ...
[/quote]
Well yes, but paying for a vets bill, and seeing a duck suffering is
also not a happy experience.Whether they are vermin or not, I have a
duty to protect my ducks, and I dont consider making them live in a
wired pen to be a reasonable thing to do, hence the need to do
something
about this cat.

Thank dog A.Lee

For a minute I thought I was in an alternate dimension, or probably
'we' aren>t as 'civilized' being colonials et al lol

Around here the custom is to shoot whatever is pestering your birds
etc. and if you are lucky enuf to know where it came from, show up w./
the carcass of it and whatever it killed, stick your hand out and
demand compensation.

All that fencing etc. is terribly expensive and would not keep
something determined off for ever. Never mind I>m gonna do all that
for someone else>s interloper.

Another neat slightly less drastic and way more fun method is buy what
we call 'bangers' They are cheap little fireworks that shoot out of an
about 6 inch long tube for about 40-50 feet and then they 'pop', some
pretty loudly. The best ones whistle before they pop. Point at the
offender and light. If it goes off really close to whatever you>re
aiming at won>t be likely you>ll see it again Puts the dogs right
under the couch. Effective for coyotes, lasts about a week but
effectiveness diminishes w/use.

cheers

peter

Amy Blankenship · Guest

"ooptec" <ooptec@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9f1354aa-95f2-4cdd-b044-03d4ee4c167a@r35g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
[quote]
"A.Lee" <a...@darkroom.+.com> wrote in message ...

Well yes, but paying for a vets bill, and seeing a duck suffering is
also not a happy experience.Whether they are vermin or not, I have a
duty to protect my ducks, and I dont consider making them live in a
wired pen to be a reasonable thing to do, hence the need to do
something
about this cat.

Thank dog A.Lee

For a minute I thought I was in an alternate dimension, or probably
'we' aren>t as 'civilized' being colonials et al lol

Around here the custom is to shoot whatever is pestering your birds
etc. and if you are lucky enuf to know where it came from, show up w./
the carcass of it and whatever it killed, stick your hand out and
demand compensation.

All that fencing etc. is terribly expensive and would not keep
something determined off for ever. Never mind I>m gonna do all that
for someone else>s interloper.

Another neat slightly less drastic and way more fun method is buy what
we call 'bangers' They are cheap little fireworks that shoot out of an
about 6 inch long tube for about 40-50 feet and then they 'pop', some
pretty loudly. The best ones whistle before they pop. Point at the
offender and light. If it goes off really close to whatever you>re
aiming at won>t be likely you>ll see it again Puts the dogs right
under the couch. Effective for coyotes, lasts about a week but
effectiveness diminishes w/use.
[/quote]
We have a paint gun that we bought for the purpose. My husband would have
to do the shooting, though, because I literally couldn>t hit the side of a
barn. We figure that not only should it sting a little, it>s fairly
conclusive proof once you call animal control that this was the dog.

Steve Newport · Guest

I hear what your saying but don>t agree.

You put birds in an environment where there are predators then yes
protect your foul - by putting them behind wire screens.

To start talking about shooting dogs and cats because they hunt your
birds is not the right choice.

If you lose fish from your pond due to cats or even seagulls you don>t
ago around shooting the animals - you put a net across the pond.

You have to face facts - in many cases human population density and
the associated density of predators like cats makes total free range
without supervision or the acceptance of some loss is simply
unrealistic.

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 06:36:13 +0100, alan@darkroom.+.com (A.Lee) wrote:

[quote]wafflycat <w*a*ffl£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:
"A.Lee" <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote in message ...
.....
Well yes, but paying for a vets bill, and seeing a duck suffering is
also not a happy experience.Whether they are vermin or not, I have a
duty to protect my ducks, and I dont consider making them live in a
wired pen to be a reasonable thing to do, hence the need to do something
about this cat.
Farmers are allowed to shoot dogs, and generally dogs are not considered
vermin, but stock has to be protected.[/quote]

A_ L _P · Guest

Amy Blankenship wrote:

[quote]We have a paint gun that we bought for the purpose. My husband would have
to do the shooting, though, because I literally couldn>t hit the side of a
barn. We figure that not only should it sting a little, it>s fairly
conclusive proof once you call animal control that this was the dog.

[/quote]
What a BRILLIANT idea! Not only convince animal control but also those
owners who say in all dumb-ass sincerity "My dog would never do that,
he>s used to cats, he never chases our chickens, he wouldn>t chase a
sheep......"
I wonder how much they cost.

A L P

ooptec · Guest

On Jul 30, 12:38 pm, Steve Newport <ste...@newport47.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:
[quote]I hear what your saying but don>t agree.

You put birds in an environment where there are predators then yes
protect your foul - by putting them behind wire screens.

To start talking about shooting dogs and cats because they hunt your
birds is not the right choice.

If you lose fish from your pond due to cats or even seagulls you don>t
ago around shooting the animals - you put a net across the pond.

You have to face facts - in many cases human population density and
the associated density of predators like cats makes total free range
without supervision or the acceptance of some loss is simply
unrealistic.
[/quote]

I beg to differ,

I think it is unrealistic to accept losses from other peoples dogs or
cats. I don>t care what the density is there only a very few dogs or
cats will start doing this. If all did it you might have a point, but
it usually is one or a pack of a couple. Around here we have neighbors
every mile or so in all directions, all w/ multiple dogs and cats

Since my birds have been totally free ranging I have shot one
dog....... that>s it, problem solved and no fences, or other fairly
useless expensive and time consuming non-fixes.

If I wanted penned birds for meat and eggs I would go buy them in the
super market not bother raising grass/bug fed ones

Not sure if you are a Brit or not.... but if so I can see why Brits
didn>t do very well on the prairies homesteading.

cheers

p

Amy Blankenship · Guest

"A_ L _P" <hay_hell_pea@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:48911D19.1060203@xnet.co.nz...
[quote]Amy Blankenship wrote:

We have a paint gun that we bought for the purpose. My husband would
have to do the shooting, though, because I literally couldn>t hit the
side of a barn. We figure that not only should it sting a little, it>s
fairly conclusive proof once you call animal control that this was the
dog.

What a BRILLIANT idea! Not only convince animal control but also those
owners who say in all dumb-ass sincerity "My dog would never do that,
he>s used to cats, he never chases our chickens, he wouldn>t chase a
sheep......"
I wonder how much they cost.
[/quote]
Ours was pretty cheap at Wal-Mart.

A_ L _P · Guest

ooptec wrote:
[quote]On Jul 30, 12:38 pm, Steve Newport <ste...@newport47.fsnet.co.uk
wrote:
I hear what your saying but don>t agree.

You put birds in an environment where there are predators then yes
protect your foul - by putting them behind wire screens.

To start talking about shooting dogs and cats because they hunt your
birds is not the right choice.

If you lose fish from your pond due to cats or even seagulls you don>t
ago around shooting the animals - you put a net across the pond.

You have to face facts - in many cases human population density and
the associated density of predators like cats makes total free range
without supervision or the acceptance of some loss is simply
unrealistic.

I beg to differ,

I think it is unrealistic to accept losses from other peoples dogs or
cats. I don>t care what the density is there only a very few dogs or
cats will start doing this. If all did it you might have a point, but
it usually is one or a pack of a couple. Around here we have neighbors
every mile or so in all directions, all w/ multiple dogs and cats

Since my birds have been totally free ranging I have shot one
dog....... that>s it, problem solved and no fences, or other fairly
useless expensive and time consuming non-fixes.

If I wanted penned birds for meat and eggs I would go buy them in the
super market not bother raising grass/bug fed ones

Not sure if you are a Brit or not.... but if so I can see why Brits
didn>t do very well on the prairies homesteading.

I>ve now got 7 cats and twenty-something chooks. Previous to the big[/quote]
adoption I had fewer chooks than cats. I keep the little chicks and
their mum penned separately but everyone else is allowed out in the
whole section during late autumn to mid spring, and they now have an
outside (unroofed) yard. I encourage those of my cats who are
interested to go in via a slanting log on one side of the fence and a
ladder on the other to deal to mice.

I have a friend whose cat brought home a chook but he wasn>t sure if it
had been dead already.

Cats that chase let alone catch chickens are very uncommon in my
experience over half a century.

Dogs on the other hand can be fine and very gentle with their "family"
be it chickens, sheep, cats but regard non-family animals (actually that
includes humans, esp children) as fair game.

And when 2 or more dogs get together and the pack mentality takes over,
all bets are off. "My dog wouldn>t hurt a fly!" - but "my" dog in the
company of another dog is a whole different animal and many owners STILL
can>t grasp that simple, well-known, truth about dog behaviour.

A L P


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