Science and Technology news... :: View topic - TOBS-Genesis: Biblical use of the term "Day"

tony · Guest

Hi Socode, “Day” as used in the Bible can include summer and winter, the passing of seasons. (Zechariah 14:8) “The day of harvest” involves many days. (Compare Proverbs 25:13 and Genesis 30:14.) A thousand years are likened to a day. (Psalm 90:4; 2 Peter 3:8, 10) “Judgment Day” covers many years. (Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24) It would seem reasonable that the “days” of Genesis could likewise have embraced long periods of time—millenniums. What, then, took place during those creative eras? Is the Bible’s account of them scientific?. Let examine the first day, since you made mention of it, First “Day” “‘Let light come to be.’ Then there came to be light. And God began calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a first day.”—Genesis 1:3, 5. Of course the sun and moon were in outer space long before this first “day,” but their light did not reach the surface of the earth for an earthly observer to see. Now, light evidently came to be visible on earth on this first “day,” and the rotating earth began to have alternating days and nights. Apparently, the light came in a gradual process, extending over a long period
of time, not instantaneously as when you turn on an electric light bulb. The Genesis rendering by translator J. W. Watts reflects this when it says: “And gradually light came into existence.” (A Distinctive Translation of Genesis) This light was from the sun, but the sun itself could not be seen through the overcast. Hence, the light that reached earth was “light diffused,” as indicated by a comment about verse 3 in Rotherham’s Emphasised Bible.—See footnote b for verse 14.

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cactus · Guest

"tony" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:20030829162924.2C14E3E5C@xmxpita.excite.com...

Hi Socode,

"Day" as used in the Bible can include summer and winter, the passing of
seasons. (Zechariah 14:8) "The day of harvest" involves many days. (Compare
Proverbs 25:13 and Genesis 30:14.) A thousand years are likened to a day.
(Psalm 90:4; 2 Peter 3:8, 10) "Judgment Day" covers many years. (Matthew
10:15; 11:22-24) It would seem reasonable that the "days" of Genesis could
likewise have embraced long periods of time-millenniums. What, then, took
place during those creative eras? Is the Bible>s account of them
scientific?.

Let examine the first day, since you made mention of it, First "Day"

"'Let light come to be.' Then there came to be light. And God began calling
the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be
evening and there came to be morning, a first day."-Genesis 1:3, 5.

Of course the sun and moon were in outer space long before this first "day,"
but their light did not reach the surface of the earth for an earthly
observer to see. Now, light evidently came to be visible on earth on this
first "day," and the rotating earth began to have alternating days and
nights.

Why were they in space long before this first day? Was there an earlier
creation? When did the rotation start?

Apparently, the light came in a gradual process, extending over a long
period of time, not instantaneously as when you turn on an electric light
bulb. The Genesis rendering by translator J. W. Watts reflects this when it
says: "And gradually light came into existence." (A Distinctive Translation
of Genesis) This light was from the sun, but the sun itself could not be
seen through the overcast. Hence, the light that reached earth was "light
diffused," as indicated by a comment about verse 3 in Rotherham>s Emphasised
Bible.-See footnote b for verse 14.

When was the overcast created? What are these translations, and why do you
trust them? Have you looked at the Hebrew, which is definitive?

BTW, you should post in plain text rather than rich text.

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cactus · Guest

"Joseph Malik" <jmalik@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:72Q3b.933$Om1.793@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
[quote]Tony, Catcus:

Who knows exactly what happened that first day? It could be that when the
earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the
deep that it was not even in orbit around our sun at this time. The point
made is time (something other than 24 hours) was involved.
[/quote]
And time must have been created before this creation, because it is
obviously involved even though its creation was not mentioned.

And large amounts
[quote]of time are implied in this process. Now each day did not have to be of
equal time. The first day was as long as required to fulfill this one
specific task identified. Other days had their own specific requirements
and
allotments of time.

Agreed. I>ve been saying that right along.

This is a simple contextual application of words that have multiple use.
It
is also true of the word WORLD as it applies to mankind and not the
planet.
Such use in regard to the flood does not mean the entire planet was
flooded,
just the bad or sinful WORLD under discussion in the area involved.
[/quote]
I would agree with this, but the fundamentalists here might not.

We also
[quote]have similar contextual use in the word GOD. It does not identify the
Supreme Being directly. The context in which it is used does that. But
this
word God (capital G and all) also applied to other beings, human and
non-human and understanding who exactly is being discussed is not always a
simple matter or cut and dried as many think.
[/quote]
I do not understand this. G-d is G-d, and Torah recognizes this. In fact,
assigning G-d as a reference to anything other than G-d is pagan, at least
for Judaism.

[quote]

Joseph

http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/

.

[/quote]

Joseph Malik · Guest

[quote]I do not understand this. G-d is G-d, and Torah recognizes this. In
fact,
assigning G-d as a reference to anything other than G-d is pagan, at least
for Judaism.
[/quote]
Catcus,

No, not even for Judaism although many of them did not and still do not
understand such use. The kings or Israel were called God in scripture along
with Moses and the Judges as it stands for the authority they had over the
people. The word in itself identifies no one specifically. Some of the many
definitions for God are found in Stongs>s like this: Notice the different
ways it is translated and used for those other than the Supreme Being.

0430 Myhla 'elohiym el-o-heem'

plural of 0433; TWOT-93c; n m p

AV-God 2346, god 244, judge 5, GOD 1, goddess 2, great 2, mighty 2, angels
1, exceeding 1, God-ward + 04136 1, godly 1; 2606

1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive-singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God

Now which meaning should we use? 1 or 1a or 1b or 2d? Context not the word
God determines which one we should pick. And this is not always easy to
discern. This is why there is so much misunderstanding and endless
discussion since so many put the emphasis in the wrong place.

Joseph

http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/

cactus · Guest

Interesting. I don>t have Strong>s. Can you provide biblical references?
That may help, especially because I can>t imagine evern royalty being
referred to by any name for G-d.

"Joseph Malik" <jmalik@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:obt4b.11596$Om1.9818@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
[quote]I do not understand this. G-d is G-d, and Torah recognizes this. In
fact,
assigning G-d as a reference to anything other than G-d is pagan, at
least
for Judaism.

Catcus,

No, not even for Judaism although many of them did not and still do not
understand such use. The kings or Israel were called God in scripture
along
with Moses and the Judges as it stands for the authority they had over the
people. The word in itself identifies no one specifically. Some of the
many
definitions for God are found in Stongs>s like this: Notice the different
ways it is translated and used for those other than the Supreme Being.

0430 Myhla 'elohiym el-o-heem'

plural of 0433; TWOT-93c; n m p

AV-God 2346, god 244, judge 5, GOD 1, goddess 2, great 2, mighty 2, angels
1, exceeding 1, God-ward + 04136 1, godly 1; 2606

1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive-singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God

Now which meaning should we use? 1 or 1a or 1b or 2d? Context not the word
God determines which one we should pick. And this is not always easy to
discern. This is why there is so much misunderstanding and endless
discussion since so many put the emphasis in the wrong place.

Joseph

http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/

[/quote]

Joseph Malik · Guest

Catcus,

You would appreciate a work like Greens Hebrew Interlinear where you can see
such use for yourself, but a few verses may be enough if you accept NT texts
written by Jews where such use is demonstrated and applied. This is turning
this thread into something new so I will keep it short.

Ex 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even
he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of
God <0430>.

Ex 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god <0430> to
Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Ps 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods <0430>; and all of you are children of the
most High.

And regarding the King of Israel at the time later also applied to Christ in
Heb. 1:8 we have:

Ps45:6 Thy throne, O God <0430>, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy
kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest
wickedness: therefore God<0430>, thy God<0430>, hath anointed thee with the
oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Therefore the scriptures demonstrate such other uses of the term God and
teach that Jesus is not true God as some think but like Moses and the Judges
that came before him, functions with the authority of God to mankind and
entitled by God to be called God in much the same way as they were. This is
the real meaning of John 1:1 where it says: In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. It is not that the Word was
God like the God this Word was with. But they introduce this Word to man as
God to man having God given authority over this creation that this Word
personally made under God>s direct orders. For this reason this Word became
the only begotten Son of God (as the human being) since he was the only true
human begotten by the God he was with and not by himself as was Adam and all
other men of all type, the all things of mankind under discussion in this
introduction to the Gospel.

Hope this helps.

Joseph

http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/

Joseph Malik · Guest

Catcus,

As a P.S. to my last post the term God is not really used as the name for
God in scripture. Another word often translated LORD does that but is
another subject entirely. LORD and Lord are different words often confused
with God of GOD adding to the confusion over them. Once again words with
multiple use merge with a name that can also be delegated and used by
others. This is why there is so much difficulty with this subject.

Joseph

http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/

cactus · Guest

FYI, any references to G-d in Tanach are pronounced "adonoi" when read aloud
in Hebrew, regardless of how written..

"Joseph Malik" <jmalik@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:J6y4b.13871$Om1.4903@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
[quote]Catcus,

As a P.S. to my last post the term God is not really used as the name for
God in scripture. Another word often translated LORD does that but is
another subject entirely. LORD and Lord are different words often confused
with God of GOD adding to the confusion over them. Once again words with
multiple use merge with a name that can also be delegated and used by
others. This is why there is so much difficulty with this subject.

Joseph

http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/

[/quote]

cactus · Guest

"Joseph Malik" <jmalik@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cNx4b.13725$Om1.9412@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
[quote]Catcus,

You would appreciate a work like Greens Hebrew Interlinear where you can
see
such use for yourself, but a few verses may be enough if you accept NT
texts
written by Jews where such use is demonstrated and applied. This is
turning
this thread into something new so I will keep it short.

So now it>s a new thread.

Ex 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be,
even
he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead
of
God <0430>.
[/quote]
My translation (Judaica Press, from the Davka Tanach CD) reads
"And he will speak for you to the people, and it will be that he will be
your speaker, and you will be his leader."

This is referring to Moses' precedence of Aaron. My Soncino Chumash renders
it
"And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass,
that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him in G-d>s stead."

This rather cumbersome translation does express the intent of the Hebrew,
that Moses serve as an intermediary between G-d and Aaron, who speaks to the
people.

[quote]Ex 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god <0430> to
Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
[/quote]
My translation has:
"The Lord said to Moses, "See! I have made you a lord over Pharaoh, and
Aaron, your brother, will be your speaker. "

[quote]
Ps 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods <0430>; and all of you are children of
the
most High.

Where your translation says "gods," mine has "angels"

And regarding the King of Israel at the time later also applied to Christ
in
Heb. 1:8 we have:

Ps45:6 Thy throne, O God <0430>, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy
kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest
wickedness: therefore God<0430>, thy God<0430>, hath anointed thee with
the
oil of gladness above thy fellows.
[/quote]
The double reference to G-d is rhetorical.

I can>t speak to your interpretation of this, not being Christian. For the
same reason I cannot comment on the paragraph that followed this text.

<snip>

BearMan · Guest

[quote]"cactus" wrote:
FYI, any references to G-d in Tanach are pronounced "adonoi" when read aloud
in Hebrew, regardless of how written..
[/quote]

Why???

cactus · Guest

Basically it>s forbidden to pronounce any actual name of G-d.

"BearMan" <Al@PraiseTheDay.net> wrote in message
news:K_A4b.138$vj4.22104@nnrp1.ptd.net...

[quote]"cactus" wrote:
FYI, any references to G-d in Tanach are pronounced "adonoi" when read
aloud
in Hebrew, regardless of how written..
[/quote]

Why???

Joseph Malik · Guest

"cactus said"

[quote]FYI, any references to G-d in Tanach are pronounced "adonoi" when read
aloud
in Hebrew, regardless of how written.
[/quote]

Catcus,

Then you would never know when or where this "adonoi" was altered from the
name YHWH or something else or where it was actually written as "adonoi" in
the original." I can understand your problems but the discussion is over
proper use of words such as "Day" or "God" not over such translation or use
by the Tanach. Your reference is not proof of anything other than a
visible bias which conceals proper use as in the original texts which use is
what we are discussing here.

Joseph

http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/

Joseph Malik · Guest

Catcus said:
My translation (Judaica Press, from the Davka Tanach CD) reads
"And he will speak for you to the people, and it will be that he will be
your speaker, and you will be his leader."

This is referring to Moses' precedence of Aaron. My Soncino Chumash renders
it
"And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass,
that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him in G-d>s stead."

This rather cumbersome translation does express the intent of the Hebrew,
that Moses serve as an intermediary between G-d and Aaron, who speaks to the
people.

Catcus,

We are not discussing intent but proper use of the word God and you have
proved my point. Some translations paraphrase as you have shown and this is
not a problem unless they also attempt to conceal such use or teach
something to that effect.

[quote]Ex 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god <0430> to
Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
[/quote]
Catcus said: My translation has:
"The Lord said to Moses, "See! I have made you a lord over Pharaoh, and
Aaron, your brother, will be your speaker. "

But the original did not say Lord so this is not proof for anything other
than bias on the part of such translators.

[quote]Ps 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods <0430>; and all of you are children of
the most High.
[/quote]

Catcus said: Where your translation says "gods," mine has "angels"

But the original text did not. Once again we are discussing proper use not
translations. Such use is not visible in translations that do not footnote
or otherwise qualify their choice of such words.

[quote]And regarding the King of Israel at the time later also applied to Christ
in Heb. 1:8 we have:

Ps45:6 Thy throne, O God <0430>, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy
kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest
wickedness: therefore God<0430>, thy God<0430>, hath anointed thee with
the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
[/quote]
Catcus said: The double reference to G-d is rhetorical.

But the God and throne under discussion belongs to the human King of Israel
who was anointed to be such God by the true God. This proves my point
clearly regarding such use.

Now when we get to texts that say: Exodus 20:3 "Thou shalt have no other
gods before me." We have no conflict because this text uses the term God in
a context of the Supreme Being that we may worship as true God, not in the
context of someone with God given authority over man such as Moses or the
Kings or Judges of Israel. The term God may sound the same, be spelled the
same but the context of the text is not the same.

Joseph

http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/

cactus · Guest

"Joseph Malik" <jmalik@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:t5I4b.17324$Om1.4326@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
[quote]"cactus said"

FYI, any references to G-d in Tanach are pronounced "adonoi" when read
aloud
in Hebrew, regardless of how written.

Catcus,

Then you would never know when or where this "adonoi" was altered from the
name YHWH or something else or where it was actually written as "adonoi"
in
the original."
[/quote]
No, not true. It>s written different ways in the original. Regardless of
how written, it>s pronounced "adonoi."

I can understand your problems but the discussion is over
[quote]proper use of words such as "Day" or "God" not over such translation or
use
by the Tanach.
[/quote]
My point is, and has been, that the Hebrew "yom," in its normal usage, can
mean several different time periods.

[quote]Your reference is not proof of anything other than a
visible bias which conceals proper use as in the original texts which use
is
what we are discussing here.
[/quote]
What do you mean by this?

ResLight · Guest

"cactus" <be131344@hotmal.com> wrote in message
news:9CB4b.4048$tw6.411@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
[quote]Basically it>s forbidden to pronounce any actual name of G-d.

[/quote]
This is man>s forbidding, however, not Yahweh>s forbidding.

1 Kings 18:21 - Elijah came near to all the people, and said, How long go
you limping between the two sides? if Yahweh is God, follow him; but if Baal
[Lord], then follow him. The people answered him not a word.

I find it next to ridiculous to think that Elijah really said adon or adonai
[or some form thereof] here instead of actually saying the name of the true
God. The same can be said for many, many, other scriptures.

Agape love,
Ronald
http://reslight.addr.com/l-name.html


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