| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
BearMan
Guest
|
 Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:03 pm Post subject: God>s name |
 |
|
[quote]"Terry/Anti" wrote:
From Strong>s
07723 shav' {shawv} or shav {shav}
from the same as 07722 in the sense of desolating; TWOT - 2338a; n m
AV - vain 22, vanity 22, false 5, lying 2, falsely 1, lies 1; 53
1) emptiness, vanity, falsehood 1a) emptiness, nothingness, vanity 1b)
emptiness of speech, lying 1c) worthlessness (of conduct)
[/quote]
I>ll find the article. It used Strong>s wordings as you quoted above.
Desolate - Emptiness - Nothingness - Falsehood - Lying - Worthless
[quote]I see nothing about blotting out, but vanity would seem to fit the JWs use
of the false name Jehovah for the name of God.
[/quote]
More unsubstantiated claims. Again my reply is PROVE IT!
Oh and don>t waste your time with the "Jehovah is not the correct representation of God>s name" arguement. I have spent years in Israel and work with Israelis every day. I know how they pronounce the name in modern hebrew and it is a lot closer to Jehovah then Yahweh - more like ee-ah-vah. Additionally the translation of Jehovah is not from witnesses, it is from the KJV. |
|
| |
|
 Back to top |
cactus
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
"BearMan" <Al@PraiseTheDay.net> wrote in message
news:evI5b.599$vj4.89254@nnrp1.ptd.net...
[quote]"Terry/Anti" wrote:
From Strong>s
07723 shav' {shawv} or shav {shav}
from the same as 07722 in the sense of desolating; TWOT - 2338a; n m
AV - vain 22, vanity 22, false 5, lying 2, falsely 1, lies 1; 53
1) emptiness, vanity, falsehood 1a) emptiness, nothingness, vanity 1b)
emptiness of speech, lying 1c) worthlessness (of conduct)
[/quote]
I>ll find the article. It used Strong>s wordings as you quoted above.
Desolate - Emptiness - Nothingness - Falsehood - Lying - Worthless
[quote]I see nothing about blotting out, but vanity would seem to fit the JWs use
of the false name Jehovah for the name of God.
More unsubstantiated claims. Again my reply is PROVE IT!
Oh and don>t waste your time with the "Jehovah is not the correct
representation of God>s name" arguement. I have spent years in Israel and[/quote]
work with Israelis every day. I know how they pronounce
[quote]the name in modern hebrew and it is a lot closer to Jehovah then Yahweh -
more like ee-ah-vah. Additionally the translation of Jehovah is not from[/quote]
witnesses, it is from the KJV.
They pronounce it? What Israelis do you work with? |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Terry/Anti
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
"BearMan" <Al@PraiseTheDay.net> wrote in message
news:evI5b.599$vj4.89254@nnrp1.ptd.net...
[quote]"Terry/Anti" wrote:
From Strong>s
07723 shav' {shawv} or shav {shav}
from the same as 07722 in the sense of desolating; TWOT - 2338a; n m
AV - vain 22, vanity 22, false 5, lying 2, falsely 1, lies 1; 53
1) emptiness, vanity, falsehood 1a) emptiness, nothingness, vanity 1b)
emptiness of speech, lying 1c) worthlessness (of conduct)
[/quote]
I>ll find the article. It used Strong>s wordings as you quoted above.
Desolate - Emptiness - Nothingness - Falsehood - Lying - Worthless
[quote]I see nothing about blotting out, but vanity would seem to fit the JWs use
of the false name Jehovah for the name of God.
[/quote]
More unsubstantiated claims. Again my reply is PROVE IT!
Oh and don>t waste your time with the "Jehovah is not the correct
representation of God>s name" arguement. I have spent years in Israel and
work with Israelis every day. I know how they pronounce the name in modern
hebrew and it is a lot closer to Jehovah then Yahweh - more like ee-ah-vah.
Additionally the translation of Jehovah is not from witnesses, it is from
the KJV. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Terry/Anti
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:29 pm Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
"BearMan" <Al@PraiseTheDay.net> wrote in message
news:evI5b.599$vj4.89254@nnrp1.ptd.net...
[quote]"Terry/Anti" wrote:
From Strong>s
07723 shav' {shawv} or shav {shav}
from the same as 07722 in the sense of desolating; TWOT - 2338a; n m
AV - vain 22, vanity 22, false 5, lying 2, falsely 1, lies 1; 53
1) emptiness, vanity, falsehood 1a) emptiness, nothingness, vanity 1b)
emptiness of speech, lying 1c) worthlessness (of conduct)
[/quote]
I>ll find the article. It used Strong>s wordings as you quoted above.
Desolate - Emptiness - Nothingness - Falsehood - Lying - Worthless
[quote]I see nothing about blotting out, but vanity would seem to fit the JWs use
of the false name Jehovah for the name of God.
[/quote]
More unsubstantiated claims. Again my reply is PROVE IT!
Oh and don>t waste your time with the "Jehovah is not the correct
representation of God>s name" arguement. I have spent years in Israel and
work with Israelis every day. I know how they pronounce the name in modern
hebrew and it is a lot closer to Jehovah then Yahweh - more like ee-ah-vah.
Additionally the translation of Jehovah is not from witnesses, it is from
the KJV.
Vanity 1. Excessive pride in one>s appearance, QUALITIES, achievements,etc.
; Conceit.
Gramps
Move the @ ahead of hot to email me. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Terry/Anti
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
"BearMan" <Al@PraiseTheDay.net> wrote in message
news:evI5b.599$vj4.89254@nnrp1.ptd.net...
[quote]"Terry/Anti" wrote:
From Strong>s
07723 shav' {shawv} or shav {shav}
from the same as 07722 in the sense of desolating; TWOT - 2338a; n m
AV - vain 22, vanity 22, false 5, lying 2, falsely 1, lies 1; 53
1) emptiness, vanity, falsehood 1a) emptiness, nothingness, vanity 1b)
emptiness of speech, lying 1c) worthlessness (of conduct)
[/quote]
I>ll find the article. It used Strong>s wordings as you quoted above.
Desolate - Emptiness - Nothingness - Falsehood - Lying - Worthless
[quote]I see nothing about blotting out, but vanity would seem to fit the JWs use
of the false name Jehovah for the name of God.
[/quote]
More unsubstantiated claims. Again my reply is PROVE IT!
Oh and don>t waste your time with the "Jehovah is not the correct
representation of God>s name" arguement. I have spent years in Israel and
work with Israelis every day. I know how they pronounce the name in modern
hebrew and it is a lot closer to Jehovah then Yahweh - more like ee-ah-vah.
Additionally the translation of Jehovah is not from witnesses, it is from
the KJV.
By the way, is this Sioux Warrior?
Gramps
Move the @ ahead of hot to email me. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Therion Ware
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:46 am Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:52:33 -0500 in alt.atheism, Terry/Anti
("Terry/Anti" <GrandpaTDhot@mail.com>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
[quote]
"BearMan" <Al@PraiseTheDay.net> wrote in message
news:evI5b.599$vj4.89254@nnrp1.ptd.net...
"Terry/Anti" wrote:
From Strong>s
07723 shav' {shawv} or shav {shav}
from the same as 07722 in the sense of desolating; TWOT - 2338a; n m
AV - vain 22, vanity 22, false 5, lying 2, falsely 1, lies 1; 53
1) emptiness, vanity, falsehood 1a) emptiness, nothingness, vanity 1b)
emptiness of speech, lying 1c) worthlessness (of conduct)
I>ll find the article. It used Strong>s wordings as you quoted above.
Desolate - Emptiness - Nothingness - Falsehood - Lying - Worthless
I see nothing about blotting out, but vanity would seem to fit the JWs use
of the false name Jehovah for the name of God.
More unsubstantiated claims. Again my reply is PROVE IT!
Oh and don>t waste your time with the "Jehovah is not the correct
representation of God>s name" arguement. I have spent years in Israel and
work with Israelis every day. I know how they pronounce the name in modern
hebrew and it is a lot closer to Jehovah then Yahweh - more like ee-ah-vah.
Additionally the translation of Jehovah is not from witnesses, it is from
the KJV.
[/quote]
You actually heard people pronounce it? Though not backwards, I trust!
[quote]By the way, is this Sioux Warrior?
Gramps
Move the @ ahead of hot to email me.
[/quote]
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
BearMan
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:18 am Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
[quote]"cactus" wrote:
They pronounce it?
[/quote]
A few will, most will not. All are apprehensive however.
[quote]What Israelis do you work with?
[/quote]
Definitely not Hassidic.
We are more like family than workmates and there is a great deal
of mutual respect between us, not just religiously but culturally as well. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
cactus
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:05 am Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
"BearMan" <Al@PraiseTheDay.net> wrote in message
news:0%N5b.639$vj4.93137@nnrp1.ptd.net...
[quote]"cactus" wrote:
They pronounce it?
[/quote]
A few will, most will not. All are apprehensive however.
[quote]What Israelis do you work with?
[/quote]
Definitely not Hassidic.
We are more like family than workmates and there is a great deal
of mutual respect between us, not just religiously but culturally as well.
Great; the human family. Are they Jewish, or secular Jewish?
Or one of the large number of other religious groups? |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
BearMan
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:06 am Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
I guess you would call them secular or common Jews.
They are typical of the majority of Jews in modern Israel today.
They keep pretty much all the celebrations and holy days. Some more than others. They are a proud people, aware of their heritage and the long history it represents. They are confident in their beliefs in regards to God, the prophets, etc. They are not fanatical about their traditions, nor do they place full confidence in the so-called spiritual leaders of the many splinter groups. They do obey many of the traditions like not mixing meat and milk when it is convenient to do so but will not abstain from going to a restaurant that is not kosher. They won>t eat pork but do not mind sitting at a table with others who do. For the most part they seem to follow the commandments as they are written and not as they are interpreted by others.
My main point was not so much how religious they are or are not but the fact that as native Israelites and fluent speakers of modern Hebrew, they have provided me with the phonetic methodology by which they would read the tetragrammaton today. Since no one knows the exact way the ancient Hebrew was pronounced all we are left with is modern translations and then interpretations of that translation into other languages.
I am still searching the internet for that article BTW. I really wish I had saved it when I had it but I was late for school and inadvertantly shut down my computer without thinking. By the time I remembered to go back to it my history file was long cleaned out. It was by a rabbinical professor (???) but I can not remember his name. I will find it though. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
cactus
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:55 am Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
"BearMan" <Al@PraiseTheDay.net> wrote in message
news:tcS5b.661$vj4.96842@nnrp1.ptd.net...
[quote]I guess you would call them secular or common Jews.
They are typical of the majority of Jews in modern Israel today.
They keep pretty much all the celebrations and holy days. Some more than
others. They are a proud people, aware of their heritage and the long[/quote]
history it represents. They are confident in their
[quote]beliefs in regards to God, the prophets, etc. They are not fanatical about
their traditions, nor do they place full confidence in the so-called[/quote]
spiritual leaders of the many splinter groups. They do obey
[quote]many of the traditions like not mixing meat and milk when it is convenient
to do so but will not abstain from going to a restaurant that is not kosher.[/quote]
They won>t eat pork but do not mind sitting at a
[quote]table with others who do. For the most part they seem to follow the
commandments as they are written and not as they are interpreted by others.[/quote]
[quote]My main point was not so much how religious they are or are not but the
fact that as native Israelites and fluent speakers of modern Hebrew, they[/quote]
have provided me with the phonetic methodology
[quote]by which they would read the tetragrammaton today. Since no one knows the
exact way the ancient Hebrew was pronounced all we are left with is modern[/quote]
translations and then interpretations of that
[quote]translation into other languages.
[/quote]
One consideration is that the pronunciation has changed over the millennia.
Similar to Chaucer>s English vs Modern.
[quote]I am still searching the internet for that article BTW. I really wish I
had saved it when I had it but I was late for school and inadvertantly shut[/quote]
down my computer without thinking. By the time I
[quote]remembered to go back to it my history file was long cleaned out. It was
by a rabbinical professor (???) but I can not remember his name. I will find[/quote]
it though.
Interesting. Sounds like typical Israelis. I think some so-called
"messianic Jews" might pronounce the name, but they don>t count because they
aren>t Jews. That>s why I was asking.
Next question - were they just pronouncing it for you, or were you
participating in a service?
BTW, does any of the information in
http://gertoux.online.fr/divinename/faq/question.htm look like the article
you found? |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
BearMan
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
[quote]"cactus" wrote
Next question - were they just pronouncing it for you,
or were you participating in a service?
[/quote]
Actually this particular time I showed them the posts on this debate and asked them to corroborate the issue for me one way or the other.But I have in the past also heard the name spoken before in Israel, although you would understand why it is not frequently or publicly.
[quote]BTW, does any of the information in
http://gertoux.online.fr/divinename/faq/question.htm
look like the article you found?
[/quote]
No but those were very good as well. Thanks. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Barry OGrady
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 8:21 am Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:31:55 GMT, "cactus" <be131344@hotmal.com> wrote:
[quote]Desolate - Emptiness - Nothingness - Falsehood - Lying - Worthless
[/quote]
Yes. Those are some of God>s names.
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640 |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
The Nolalu Barn Owl
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:05 am Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:03:38 GMT, "BearMan" <Al@PraiseTheDay.net>
wrote:
[quote]Additionally the translation of Jehovah is not from witnesses, it is from the KJV.
[/quote]
# The Watchtower>s own book - Aid to Bible Understanding p. 884 & 885
admits that name of Jehovah was first recorded by a Catholic monk
about 700 years ago! 'The first recorded use of this form [Jehovah]
dates from the thirteenth century C.E. Raymundus Martini, a Spanish
monk of the Dominican Order, used it in his book Pugeo Fidei of the
year 1270 C.E.
This pre-dates the KJV(AND Protestantism) by about 240 years or so.
--
Regards
Gordie |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
BearMan
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:31 am Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
[quote]"The Nolalu Barn Owl" wrote
'The first recorded use of this form [Jehovah]
dates from the thirteenth century C.E. ...
This pre-dates the KJV(AND Protestantism) by about 240 years or so.
[/quote]
Thanks for the history lesson.
That re-enforces my statement that this form is a historical translation of God>s name.
Not some recent manifestation as some have claimed it to be. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
BearMan
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 11:09 am Post subject: Re: God>s name |
|
|
Cactus,
You still out there?
I have not found the specific reference I was looking for but in my search I have run across a few others.
Are you familiar with the Hebrew alphabet? I saw an article speaking about Eliezer Ben-Yehudah, proponent of modern Hebrew. In the article was a picture of a stamp with his name on it and I realized that the name Yehuda uses the same letters as the tetram plus a "D" (daleth). If you take out the "D" you have the tetragrammaton.
ya-HOO-dah
ya-HOO-ah
Have you ever seen, heard, or considered this?
Am I missing something? |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
