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good@rock.com · Guest

We can make energy out of matter, and matter out of energy. With cold
fusion, we will unlock the power of the atom, and the world will have
infinite energy and be able to create matter out of energy and thus
infinite wealth.

Cold fusion is for real. Just like the light bulb it may take many
attempts to get it right.

Thomas Edison failed more than 1,000 times when trying to create the
light bulb. When asked about it, Edison allegedly said, "I have not
failed 1,000 times. I have successfully discovered 1,000 ways to NOT
make a light bulb." He then succeeded, and now the world has light.

Cold fusion is for real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion

From Wired Magazine "What If Cold Fusion Is Real?"

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/6.11/coldfusion_pr.html

"That>s what makes cold fusion so nonreproducible," says Storms. "You
have to load the palladium with very high concentrations [of
deuterium], and many samples simply won>t tolerate it."

"Heat has practical applications," concedes McKubre, "but what am I
supposed to do with the ability to turn expensive elements into cheap
ones?"

This, finally, is his explanation for many negative results. There>s
still a snag, though. Just because he knows how to select good
palladium, doesn>t mean he knows how to make it. "Pons and Fleischmann
used to test samples from a supplier, Johnson Matthey, and over the
years they figured out how to create palladium that worked most of the
time. But Johnson Matthey signed a nondisclosure agreement with
Technova, the Toyota-supported group that financed the research in
France. The Japanese thought cold fusion would be hugely successful,
and therefore everyone would want this certain type of palladium, and
they>d clean up."

Of course, it never happened. Technova abandoned cold fusion. But
according to Storms the nondisclosure agreement still exists, and
Johnson Matthey is still bound by it. (A spokesperson at Johnson
Matthey would not confirm that an agreement exists.)

"Someone should buy it from Technova," I suggest.

Storms laughs. "Why should they? It>s worthless! You can>t make any
money from cold fusion - at least, not using the Pons-Fleischmann
method."

And so, at this point, Storms is stymied. He shows me a paper he has
written, with a grim cover letter: "Ironically, it is now possible to
know why we failed but it is too late to follow a more successful
path ... Without access to widely circulated journals, this negative
attitude within the scientific community obviously cannot be changed.
Even overwhelming proof, as demanded by many scientists in the past,
can have no effect because no mechanism exists for it to be
communicated to the scientific professions."

Fred Kasner · Guest

good@rock.com wrote:
[quote]We can make energy out of matter, and matter out of energy. With cold
fusion, we will unlock the power of the atom, and the world will have
infinite energy and be able to create matter out of energy and thus
infinite wealth.

Cold fusion is for real. Just like the light bulb it may take many
attempts to get it right.

Thomas Edison failed more than 1,000 times when trying to create the
light bulb. When asked about it, Edison allegedly said, "I have not
failed 1,000 times. I have successfully discovered 1,000 ways to NOT
make a light bulb." He then succeeded, and now the world has light.

Cold fusion is for real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion

From Wired Magazine "What If Cold Fusion Is Real?"

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/6.11/coldfusion_pr.html

"That>s what makes cold fusion so nonreproducible," says Storms. "You
have to load the palladium with very high concentrations [of
deuterium], and many samples simply won>t tolerate it."

"Heat has practical applications," concedes McKubre, "but what am I
supposed to do with the ability to turn expensive elements into cheap
ones?"

This, finally, is his explanation for many negative results. There>s
still a snag, though. Just because he knows how to select good
palladium, doesn>t mean he knows how to make it. "Pons and Fleischmann
used to test samples from a supplier, Johnson Matthey, and over the
years they figured out how to create palladium that worked most of the
time. But Johnson Matthey signed a nondisclosure agreement with
Technova, the Toyota-supported group that financed the research in
France. The Japanese thought cold fusion would be hugely successful,
and therefore everyone would want this certain type of palladium, and
they>d clean up."

Of course, it never happened. Technova abandoned cold fusion. But
according to Storms the nondisclosure agreement still exists, and
Johnson Matthey is still bound by it. (A spokesperson at Johnson
Matthey would not confirm that an agreement exists.)

"Someone should buy it from Technova," I suggest.

Storms laughs. "Why should they? It>s worthless! You can>t make any
money from cold fusion - at least, not using the Pons-Fleischmann
method."

And so, at this point, Storms is stymied. He shows me a paper he has
written, with a grim cover letter: "Ironically, it is now possible to
know why we failed but it is too late to follow a more successful
path ... Without access to widely circulated journals, this negative
attitude within the scientific community obviously cannot be changed.
Even overwhelming proof, as demanded by many scientists in the past,
can have no effect because no mechanism exists for it to be
communicated to the scientific professions."
[/quote]
Remarkable idiocy on the part of the person who claimed this. If you
have access to the internet then you have access to as many scientists
as will read stuff on the internet. You may not be able to access them
via well respected refereed journals. But if you don>t care about the
copyright for your article you can get it in front of a sizable number
of scientists just by putting it up on a appropriate news group. I would
suggest sci.energy.hydrogen . There are a lot of worn out skeptics on
this NG (me included) who will spend some time reading your stuff. If it
requires binary material to be shown (graphs, equations, etc.) then give
them a URL to either read such or to download it.

I, as an experienced worker in precision calorimetry would have jumped
all over Pons and Fleichmann work had I had access to the original
papers. It sure was bad calorimetry. And the failure to find any
neutrons was another bad sign. But to say that there is no venue for
publication is pure nonsense.
FK

Al Dykes · Guest

In article <0cd57afe-d436-453b-9c27-fda86f852698@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
good@rock.com <gooddad@rock.com> wrote:
[quote]We can make energy out of matter, and matter out of energy. With cold
fusion, we will unlock the power of the atom, and the world will have
infinite energy and be able to create matter out of energy and thus
infinite wealth.

Cold fusion is for real. Just like the light bulb it may take many
attempts to get it right.

[/quote]

Somehow you forgot to tell us that this article is 10 years
old. Hopefully, everyone that had anything to do with the science has
been fired for incompetency.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/6.11/coldfusion.html

--
Al Dykes
News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising.
- Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail

Mark Thorson · Guest

"good@rock.com" wrote:
[quote]
This, finally, is his explanation for many negative results. There>s
still a snag, though. Just because he knows how to select good
palladium, doesn>t mean he knows how to make it. "Pons and Fleischmann
used to test samples from a supplier, Johnson Matthey, and over the
years they figured out how to create palladium that worked most of the
time. But Johnson Matthey signed a nondisclosure agreement with
Technova, the Toyota-supported group that financed the research in
France. The Japanese thought cold fusion would be hugely successful,
and therefore everyone would want this certain type of palladium, and
they>d clean up."
[/quote]
It>s called "red palladium". To get it, bring
$50,000 in cash to the Cafe American bar in
Moscow, and tell the bartender you wish to meet
Ivan Ivanov. Then, order a vodka martini,
sit down, and wait to be introduced.

Richard Schultz · Guest

In sci.chem Fred Kasner <fkasner@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

: I, as an experienced worker in precision calorimetry would have jumped
: all over Pons and Fleichmann work had I had access to the original
: papers. It sure was bad calorimetry. And the failure to find any
: neutrons was another bad sign. But to say that there is no venue for
: publication is pure nonsense.

And don>t forget their additional miracle -- not only were there no
neutrons ("it magically makes only 4He"), but there were no gamma rays
from decay of 4He* either ("it magically couples 24 MeV to phonon modes").

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"

Richard Schultz · Guest

In sci.chem kiloVolts <mantrap@nospam.com> wrote:

: Richard, your reputatation as an Israeli disinformation agent is legendary.
: Perhaps for once your masters in the Israeli nuclear weapons authority will
: allow you to loosen up a bit.

I would love to see your evidence that I have any ties whatsoever with
the "Israeli nuclear weapons authority," or that I was even aware of the
existence of such a body, prior to your post. I>d also like to see your
evidence that I am a "paid agent" of anyone. Your making obviously untrue and
defamatory statements about other people does your cause no good, you know.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
". . .Mr Schutz [sic] acts like a functional electro-terrorist who
impeads [sic] scientific communications with his too oft-silliness."
-- Mitchell Swartz, sci.physics.fusion article <EEI1oz.43q@world.std.com>

kiloVolts · Guest

"Richard Schultz" <schultr@mail.biu.ack.il> wrote in message
news:g66g5b$2ik$1@news.iucc.ac.il...
[quote]In sci.chem Fred Kasner <fkasner@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

: I, as an experienced worker in precision calorimetry would have jumped
: all over Pons and Fleichmann work had I had access to the original
: papers. It sure was bad calorimetry. And the failure to find any
: neutrons was another bad sign. But to say that there is no venue for
: publication is pure nonsense.

And don>t forget their additional miracle -- not only were there no
neutrons ("it magically makes only 4He"), but there were no gamma rays
from decay of 4He* either ("it magically couples 24 MeV to phonon modes").
[/quote]
Richard, the precise value for the 'forbidden' reaction is

H-2 + H-2 -> He-4 + 26.071356 MeV,

not 24 MeV as you suggest.

{The interested reader may wish to verify this value, 26.071356 MeV. Please
visit, http://t2.lanl.gov/cgi-bin/quemd , where you will find a calculator
for "Ground-State Masses and Deformations". For deuterium, H-2, put Z=1,
A=-2. For helium, He-4, put Z=2, A=4. The total binding energy for
deuterium, H-2, is 2.224636 Mev, for helium, He-4, 28.295992 MeV. 28.295992
MeV - 2.224636 MeV.}

Richard, your reputatation as an Israeli disinformation agent is legendary.
Perhaps for once your masters in the Israeli nuclear weapons authority will
allow you to loosen up a bit.

{The interested reader may ask why is a dilute gas phase reaction like,

H-2 + H-2 -> He-4 + 26.071356 MeV, EQ 1

'forbidden'? The mathematically restriction is due the fact that it is not
possible to simultaneously satisfy requirements of the law conservation of
energy and the law of conservation of momentum for the reaction as written.
The interested reader who is alert, may ask why is it not possible to lift
the mathematical restriction by the addition of a third particle (maybe a
free electron), on both sides of EQ 1? Answer: "a dilute gas phase reaction"
like in magnetic confinement fusion, implies "infinite dilution". At
infinite dilution, the likelihood of two particle reaction is small, the
likelihood of three particle reaction is infinitesimal.

Mathematically, the reaction,

H-2 + H-2 + e -> He-4 + e + 26.071356 MeV, EQ 2

where e are _free_ electrons, can _only_ occur in condensed matter.}

Richard Schultz wrote "it magically couples 24 MeV to phonon modes". Gee
whiz Richard, why is it that in ~20 years of debate on this subject, there
are no fucking new ideas? Because of a multitude of paid disinformation
agents like Richard Schultz, who work for the nuclear weapons authorities of
their respective nations.

{The interested reader may be interested in study of dilute gas phase,
"infinite dilution" nuclear fusion reactions which occur in magnetic
confinement nuclear fusion. Please visit, Wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion , "Nuclear Fusion". Please take
careful note that of the ten nuclear fusion reaction given, all ten are two
particle, "infinite dilution" reactions only. The scholars who wrote the
Wikipedia article intentionally ignored condensed phase three particle
reactions. Why? Because they are all paid disinformation agents for the
nuclear weapons authorities of their respective nations.}

Fred Kasner wrote, I am "an experienced worker in precision calorimetry."
Christ, why am I not impressed? True scientific skepticism requires years of
hard work not reliance on one>s own presumed authority.

Fred, {and all interested readers}, please visit Dieter Britz>s COLD NUCLEAR
FUSION BIBLIOGRAPHY at http://www.chem.au.dk/~db/fusion/ . Spend a few years
of your misspent youth and your middle ages actually reading the THOUSANDS
of scientific publication of cold fusion which do not disparage the work of
Pons and Fleichmann. I have misspent my youth and middle age reading many of
these works and I have come to the conclusion that all this work is 'iffy'
border line science, done by scientific workers of integrity who do not give
a shit about your opinion of them, Fred. They think you are a jerk.

{The interested reader may quesion the meaning of "'iffy' border line
science"? Radioactivity was first discovered in 1896 by the French
scientist Henri Becquerel. Please visit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactivity for more details. Back then it
was ALL "'iffy' border line science". It took FIFTY fucking years to go from
the discovery of radioactivity to any kind of useful application of nuclear
energy.}

Richard, Fred, your negative contributions to the subject matter of cold
fusion have been duelly noted, Your names have been entered into the
appropraite roster of ignomy.

{The interested reader is strongly advised NOT to attempt any cold fusion
experiments, ever, you may die. Please visit
http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/04_Tech/040909.cold.fusion.html ,
"Dangerous Science". Please note that where as it took many decades for
Madam Curie to die from cancer due to exposure to radiactivity, it only took
THREE years after Pons and Fleichmann for Andrew Riley to die in a cold
fusion explosion cover up. Cold fusion research is infinitely more dangerous
than radiactivity and is only suitable for study by the nuclear weapons
authorities of many nations, particularly, China. Read Dieter Britz>s
archive and you will encounter many works by Chinese authors. Spend of few
years reading.

The attention of the alert reader is drawn to the fact that Steve Quayle>s
article "Dangerous Science" discusses TWO dead guys, Andrew Riley and Gene
Mallove. Gene Mallove was a champion of illicit and dangerous civilian cold
fusion research. As a consequence he was murderede and his murder has not
been solved and will never be solved. It is a national security issue. Gene
Mallove was killed by a paid disinformation agent of some nation.}

Richard, you are a paid disinformation agent. Fred, you are a volunteer.
You both are in bed with very naughty disinformation agents of many nations.

Richard Schultz · Guest

In sci.chem kiloVolts <mantrap@nospam.com> wrote:

: Richard, the precise value for the 'forbidden' reaction is
:
: H-2 + H-2 -> He-4 + 26.071356 MeV,
:
: not 24 MeV as you suggest.

Wrong.

According to the databases at physics.nist.gov, the atomic masses are
D = 2.014 101 778 amu
4He = 4.002 603 2497 amu

and the conversion factor is 1 amu = 931.494 028 MeV

Thus, each D + D -> 4He fusion leads to a mass loss of about 0.0256003 amu.

(0.0256003 amu)(931.494 MeV/amu) = 23.8465 MeV

Rounding off to two places, we get 24 MeV.

If the rest of your rant were as accurate (i.e. within 10%), that would be
amazing, but as far as I can tell, it>s not even that close.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
". . .Mr Schutz [sic] acts like a functional electro-terrorist who
impeads [sic] scientific communications with his too oft-silliness."
-- Mitchell Swartz, sci.physics.fusion article <EEI1oz.43q@world.std.com>

Richard Schultz · Guest

[followups trimmed and spf -- the appropriate group -- added]

In sci.chem good@rock.com <gooddad@rock.com> wrote:

: Cold fusion is for real. Just like the light bulb it may take many
: attempts to get it right.

In March 1989, Pons and Fleischmann claimed that they had a *working
prototype* of a cold fusion based water heater.

Note that they were not claiming to have been in Edison>s position of needing
to test 1000 different filament compositions -- they claimed to have had
a water heater prototype that already worked.

Nearly 20 years later, where>s the water heater?

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
". . .Mr Schutz [sic] acts like a functional electro-terrorist who
impeads [sic] scientific communications with his too oft-silliness."
-- Mitchell Swartz, sci.physics.fusion article <EEI1oz.43q@world.std.com>

A very naughty disinforma · Guest

"kiloVolts" <mantrap@nospam.com> wrote

[quote]{The interested reader is strongly advised NOT to attempt any cold fusion
experiments, ever, you may die. Please visit
http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/04_Tech/040909.cold.fusion.html ,
"Dangerous Science". Please note that where as it took many decades for
Madam Curie to die from cancer due to exposure to radiactivity, it only
took THREE years after Pons and Fleichmann for Andrew Riley to die in a
cold fusion explosion cover up. Cold fusion research is infinitely more
dangerous than radiactivity and is only suitable for study by the nuclear
weapons authorities of many nations, particularly, China. Read Dieter
Britz>s archive and you will encounter many works by Chinese authors.
Spend of few years reading.

The attention of the alert reader is drawn to the fact that Steve Quayle>s
article "Dangerous Science" discusses TWO dead guys, Andrew Riley and Gene
Mallove. Gene Mallove was a champion of illicit and dangerous civilian
cold fusion research. As a consequence he was murderede and his murder has
not been solved and will never be solved. It is a national security issue.
Gene Mallove was killed by a paid disinformation agent of some nation.}
[/quote]
Yah, well, they executed Julius and Ethel Rosenberg (see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg ), who were
emminently innocent, simply so their deaths could serve as a deterence to
others and because the legal infrastructure was pre-existing to legitimize
their executions. In the case of Gene Mallove, a pre-existing legal
infrastructure did not exist. But he was NOT innocent. He was at least
partially culpable for Andrew Riley>s death because he was a champion of
illicit and dangerous civilian cold fusion research. The legal concept is
"termination with extreme prejudice". Let his death serve as a deterence to
all you civilians who think cold fusion is the answer to high gsoline
prices.

Dieter Britz · Guest

kiloVolts wrote:

[quote]"Richard Schultz" <schultr@mail.biu.ack.il> wrote in message
And don>t forget their additional miracle -- not only were there no
neutrons ("it magically makes only 4He"), but there were no gamma rays
from decay of 4He* either ("it magically couples 24 MeV to phonon
modes").

Richard, the precise value for the 'forbidden' reaction is

H-2 + H-2 -> He-4 + 26.071356 MeV,

not 24 MeV as you suggest.
[/quote]
From the book by Huizenga, the reaction is

d + d --> 4He + 23.85 MeV

close to Richard>s 24. The LANL URL you gave doesn>t work.

[quote]Richard, your reputatation as an Israeli disinformation agent is
legendary. Perhaps for once your masters in the Israeli nuclear weapons
authority will allow you to loosen up a bit.
[/quote]
Legendary? Only you know this legend.

[quote]particle, "infinite dilution" reactions only. The scholars who wrote the
[/quote]
What does infinite dilution (with or without quote marks) have to do
with the private matter of two deuterons fusing?

[quote]Fred, {and all interested readers}, please visit Dieter Britz>s COLD
NUCLEAR FUSION BIBLIOGRAPHY at http://www.chem.au.dk/~db/fusion/ . Spend a
few years of your misspent youth and your middle ages actually reading the
THOUSANDS of scientific publication of cold fusion which do not disparage
[/quote]
I wonder whether you have visited my biliography yourself. Currently,
there are 1385 articles in the main biblio. Rounded off, that>s ONE
thousand, not thousandS. There are others who claim thousands, but they
take in articles in enthusiast "journals" that do not use referees, or
use enthusiast referees.

[quote]the work of Pons and Fleichmann. I have misspent my youth and middle age
[/quote]
That>s Fleischmann, mate. I am glad though that you didn>t write Pon>s.

[quote]The attention of the alert reader is drawn to the fact that Steve Quayle>s
article "Dangerous Science" discusses TWO dead guys, Andrew Riley and Gene
Mallove. Gene Mallove was a champion of illicit and dangerous civilian
[/quote]
Riley died from an explosion when compressed deuterium and oxygen
ignited. Mallove was murdered, possibly as a result of an argument
about house rent. In both cases, your hints that these deaths had
something to do with fusion or a conspiracy about fusion are silly.

--
Dieter Britz (britz<at>chem.au.dk)

Mark Thorson · Guest

Richard Schultz wrote:
[quote]
In sci.chem kiloVolts <mantrap@nospam.com> wrote:

: Richard, your reputatation as an Israeli disinformation agent is legendary.
: Perhaps for once your masters in the Israeli nuclear weapons authority will
: allow you to loosen up a bit.

I would love to see your evidence that I have any ties whatsoever with
the "Israeli nuclear weapons authority," or that I was even aware of the
existence of such a body, prior to your post. I>d also like to see your
evidence that I am a "paid agent" of anyone. Your making obviously untrue and
defamatory statements about other people does your cause no good, you know.
[/quote]
Yeah, everybody knows you consult for the oil companies.
When you>re not doing the dirty work for Big Pharma,
of course. :-)

Richard Schultz · Guest

In sci.chem Mark Thorson <nospam@sonic.net> wrote:

:> I>d also like to see your evidence that I am a "paid agent" of anyone.

: Yeah, everybody knows you consult for the oil companies.
: When you>re not doing the dirty work for Big Pharma, of course. :-)

You>d think that with all the money that I>m raking in acting as a paid
agent for so many different forces of evil, I wouldn>t have to work for a
living. . .

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."

number6 · Guest

On Jul 24, 12:38 am, schu...@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

[quote]You>d think that with all the money that I>m raking in acting as a paid
agent for so many different forces of evil, I wouldn>t have to work for a
living. . .
[/quote]
According to your signature ... You don>t :-)

[quote]Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
[/quote]
We chemists in industry otoh ...

Richard Schultz · Guest

In sci.chem number6 <snumber6@aol.com> wrote:
: On Jul 24, 12:38?am, schu...@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

:> You>d think that with all the money that I>m raking in acting as a paid
:> agent for so many different forces of evil, I wouldn>t have to work for a
:> living. . .

: According to your signature ... You don>t :-)

Don>t believe everything you read in the papers.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."


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