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John Hasenkam
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 Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: The Value of Placebo |
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You Get What You Pay For? Costly Placebo Works Better Than Cheap One
ScienceDaily (Mar. 5, 2008) - A 10-cent pill doesn>t kill pain as well as a
$2.50 pill, even when they are identical placebos, according to a
provocative study by Dan Ariely, a behavioral economist at Duke University.
.....
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080304173339.htm |
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ken
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:50 am Post subject: Re: The Value of Placebo |
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"John Hasenkam" <johnh@goawayplease.com> wrote in message news:13stbls364keoaa@corp.supernews.com...
| You Get What You Pay For? Costly Placebo Works Better Than Cheap One
| ScienceDaily (Mar. 5, 2008) - A 10-cent pill doesn>t kill pain as well as a
| $2.50 pill, even when they are identical placebos, according to a
| provocative study by Dan Ariely, a behavioral economist at Duke University.
| ....
|
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|
| http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080304173339.htm
Hi John,
'guess money can buy happiness
after all'.
[Only kidding.]
It>s an example of pseudo-faith.
It happens be-cause immune-system
function is literally a form of Cognition.
That which becomes 'familiar' [TD E/I-
minimized 'within' one>s nervous sys-
tem] correlates to increased-order
'within' neural-activation, and increased-
order 'within' neural-activation tends to
render immune-system function com-
mensurately-ordered and -functional.
["Disease" is absence-of-order, so order
is absence-of-disease, which, taken-to-
gether, is literally how 'the' immune
system 'knows' how to 'move' [become-
active] with respect to disease -- dis-
order(up) is the immune system>s "fire-
alarm".]
"Money" is a concept that tends to be
relatively-'familiar' [even though "hav-
ing-money" often isn>t :-]
=All other things= being neutral, doing
the relatively-'familiar' [relatively-TD
E/I-minimized] thing -- "throwing-
money-at-problems" -- results in a de-
gree of 'td e/i-minimization' merely
because doing so, like "going to the
doctor [to receive a placebo]", is
culturally-relatively-'familiar'.
Given that a Person has 'money',
spending a little-bit-more 'money'
will correlate to commensurately-
more 'td e/i-minimization' than
will 'not-spending-enough' [which
relationship Retailers also use 'in-
tuitively' to imbue their stuff with
relative-'perceptual-value'.]
To the degree that it occurs, TD E/I-
minimization is what actually does
anything [not 'money', etc.] [I>m on-
ly discussing "the placebo effect", not
other Medicine. "Placebos" don>t cure
cancer. TD E/I-minimization routinely
does [as in, "Everyone gets cancer
some 'time' during their Lives, but
not everyone dies from it" -- be-
cause TD E/I-minimization can, and
does, "sweat-the-small-stuff" -- dis-
ease that>s 'smoldering' rather than
already 'blazing'.]]
This>s the same-stuff that underpins
the existence of Erroneous theories
in Science -- like during the 1,000-
'year'-'life-time' of Earth-centric
Ptolemaic Astronomy.
It was Wrong.
Folks still had pseudo-faith in-it be-
cause it was what>d merely come to
be relatively-'familiar'.
At the base, all such pseudo-faith
is 'just' relative-TD E/I-minimization.
Which is some of how and why NDT>s
stuff is 'Difficult'. NDT eliminates the
'blindness', and folks>re 'familiar' with
"being-'blind' ", even though just-Seeing
is Easier in the long-term. Folks don>t
routinely do the work inherent in Seeing
be-cause doing it =always= increases
TD E/I over the short-term [which is the
most-basic Reason that understanding
how and why nervous systems process
information via 'blindly'-automated TD
E/I-minimization is worth-the-energy --
enables folks to 'get-over-the-hump'
with respect to the short-term TD E/I
(up)s that routinely 'block' folks' elim-
inating the conditions of long-term
"slow-burns", to 'move toward' Truth
with respect to =long-term= TD E/I-
minimization, thus freeing themselves
of relative-disorder>s "slow-burning"
energy-dissipation [long-term Waste.]]
What>s the "difference" between "pseudo-
faith" and just-plain "Faith"?
Pseudo-faith always has a 'crutch' [like
'money', 'fame', 'prestige', etc.] prop-
ping-it-up. In the case of Ptolemaic
Astronomy, it was ancient capital-in-
vestments in Observatories, their equip-
ment, folks' incomes, and the 'perks'
of Royal-Service -- same as 'today' :-]
"Faith" 'flies-solo' [sans-'crutches'], found-
ed-in-what-one-Sees-through-the-'lens'-
of-TD E/I-minimization-while-ranging-
widely during the course of experience,
which wide-rangingness is Necessary
if unknown-'crutches' are to be elim-
inated. "Faith" doesn>t allow 'stuff' to
predetermine 'movement'.
Our bodies are 'just' built-in-the-cor-
related-way.
TD E/I-minimization literally grasps
the just-energy that underpins phys-
ical reality, enabling us to "Know"
physical reality.
Folks>re usually 'satisfied' with pseudo-
faith, "slow-burns", and all, be-cause
that>s the culturally-inculcated thing,
and even though "slow-burns" tend
to merge across Populations and
"explode" via interpersonal-mutual-
TD E/I(up) induction [AoK, Ap8.]
[Gee-whiz, I>m long-winded.
Hope I>ve not offended.]
Cheers John,
ken [k. p. collins] |
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Glen M. Sizemore
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:37 am Post subject: Re: The Value of Placebo |
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I just looked at those data today - the effect looked pretty robust.
"John Hasenkam" <johnh@goawayplease.com> wrote in message
news:13stbls364keoaa@corp.supernews.com...
[quote]You Get What You Pay For? Costly Placebo Works Better Than Cheap One
ScienceDaily (Mar. 5, 2008) - A 10-cent pill doesn>t kill pain as well as
a $2.50 pill, even when they are identical placebos, according to a
provocative study by Dan Ariely, a behavioral economist at Duke
University. ....
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080304173339.htm
[/quote]
I just looked at those data today - the effect looked pretty robust. |
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John Hasenkam
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: Re: The Value of Placebo |
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Hey Glen,
Thanks for the data check. I>ve never liked the casual dismissal of the
Place Effect nor the willy nilly way in which it is invoked. An old friend
of mine suggested that the appellation needs to be in the plural because
there are many varieties of placebo and different processes seem to be at
play. Another case where the name leads the cognition astray.
Would such an effect be noted simply for larger numeric values(eg. more of
the active agent in pill X, or a casual remark: we find this pill better
but- or AND - its cheaper) or is it money specific? What would happen if
this experiment were replicated in cultures where there are different over
arching imperatives other than money? Can a person>s cognitive performance
be enhanced by placebo?
Good to see people still researching this area, it has been too much
ignored.
Thanks,
John.
"Glen M. Sizemore" <gmsizemore2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47cf128f$0$24664$ed362ca5@nr2.newsreader.com...
[quote]I just looked at those data today - the effect looked pretty robust.
"John Hasenkam" <johnh@goawayplease.com> wrote in message
news:13stbls364keoaa@corp.supernews.com...
You Get What You Pay For? Costly Placebo Works Better Than Cheap One
ScienceDaily (Mar. 5, 2008) - A 10-cent pill doesn>t kill pain as well as
a $2.50 pill, even when they are identical placebos, according to a
provocative study by Dan Ariely, a behavioral economist at Duke
University. ....
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080304173339.htm
I just looked at those data today - the effect looked pretty robust.
[/quote] |
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Entertained by my own EIM
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Re: The Value of Placebo |
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[quote]Can a person>s cognitive performance
be enhanced by placebo?
[/quote]
Hi John,
Firstly, the kind of actention (or attention but for my recognition of a
requirement that what we do, think, and feel be understood on a common
concEPTual ground :>) that a placebo pill implies, is, by any reasonable
definition, cognitive.
Boosts of beneficial beliefs can surely be had from "precisely put and
positive words produced via a tongue" as much as placebo-pills can be
placed on a tongue and swallowed (given a properly prepared
placebo-promoting attitude) to some pain-controlling/blocking, hence
relatively health-giving, effect.
It is only anecdotal, but it makes sense, that by whatever way that a
person is made to feel less listless or more alert and to have a
positive outlook on life - as opposed made to feel inferior or
inadequate - would tend to make them 'underperform' in test of all kinds
of intelligence.
IOW, it seems reasonable to me that placebos ought to be able to affect
the cognitive performance of at least some people - only less so (or not
at all) on people that are not easily (or not at all) hypnotizable. |
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Entertained by my own EIM
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: Re: The Value of Placebo |
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[quote]Can a person>s cognitive performance
be enhanced by placebo?
[/quote]
Hi John,
Firstly, the kind of actention (or attention but for my recognition of a
requirement that what we do, think, and feel be understood on a common
concEPTual ground :>) that a placebo pill implies, is, by any reasonable
definition, cognitive.
Boosts of beneficial beliefs (via pain-controlling/blocking neural
mechanisms - hence having relatively health-giving effects) beliefs can
surely be had from "precisely put and positive words produced via a
"tongue" as much as placebo-pills can be placed on one (tongue) and
swallowed (given a properly prepared placebo-promoting attitude).
It is only anecdotal, but it makes sense, that by whatever way that a
person is made to feel less listless or more alert and to have a
positive outlook on life - as opposed made to feel inferior or
inadequate - would tend to make them 'underperform' in test of all kinds
of intelligence.
IOW, it seems reasonable to me that placebos ought to be able to affect
the cognitive performance of at least some people - only less so (or not
at all) on people that are not easily (or not at all) hypnotizable.
Regards,
P |
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