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Peter T. Daniels
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 Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весна (Devich ya Vesna) |
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On Oct 18, 11:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz>
wrote:
[quote]On Oct 19, 4:21 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 5:35 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 19, 2:39 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 10:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 18, 3:44 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 5:19 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:24 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:cb6bf488-25f6-4a5b-bb4f-c786fe97f1dd@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com
in sci.lang:
[...]
[Indian summer]
[...]
It>s a specifically New England phenomenon (and I haven>t
heard the phrase in years); [...]
We get Indian summer in northeastern Ohio, and I do
occasionally hear (and use) the phrase.
Brian
And we used it (and some times had it) in Vancouver too.
? Vancouver is a "temperate rain forest," with even temperatures year
round. (In Seattle they still drive original VW Beetles because
there>s no rust because there>s no road salt because it never snows or
sleets. They even still have leaded gasoline for all the old cars.)
I don>t know where you>re getting all this stuff.
From my week in Vancouver for the 1994 LACUS meeting, and my weeks in
Seattle for the 1984 and 2000(?) AOS meetings.
Hm. Well, yes, I guess whole weeks do sometimes go by without snow and
with little variation in temperature....
But I couldn>t help myself. I went to worldclimate.com, where they
have heaps of stats for hundreds of places around the world. I looked
at the difference in temperature between 24-hour average temperatures
for January and July, to get an idea of the range. Here>s a sample, in
ascending order.
EXTREMELY SMALL (< 5 degrees Celsius)
Majuro (Marshall Islands) (0.1) [I looked at this because I had a
friend who once lived there and described it to me]
Bangkok, Nadi (Fiji), Brazzaville, Port Vila (Vanuatu), Honolulu, San
Francisco (4.6)
SMALL (5-10 degrees)
Rio de Janeiro, Lima, Los Angeles, San Diego, Auckland (8.4), Miami,
Calcutta
MEDIUM (10-20 degrees)
Sydney, London, Seattle (13.9), Cairo, Vancouver (14.6), Dubrovnik
The point is not the amount of difference between the coldest and
hottest months.
But it is the point. It is in response to your claim that Vancouver
has "even temperatures year round". If you want a place with even
temperatures year round, you want to go to San Francisco, or if that
is still not even enough, head for the tropics. The above figures are
sufficient to show that in both Vancouver and Seattle there is a clear
difference between summer and winter temperatures, albeit smaller than
in the places you are used to.
The point is that the coldest months are not cold.
Maybe they>re talking a range from 5 to 20 (41-68 F). Or 10-25 (50-77
F).
No, this is a new point you have introduced. The relevant January
temperatures, if you>re interested, are: Chicago -6.1, New York -0.4,
Vancouver 2.7, Seattle 4.5. If you want to be a climate snob and say
that the first two are "cold" but the others are not, you go ahead.
I>ve encountered climate snobs all my life. My grandparents used to
have a little rhyme whose last line went "...but we don>t call this
cold in Quebec!" (where they came from). But this has nothing to do
with the possibility of having an "Indian summer".
[/quote]
How much snow and sleet can you get when your _average_ temperature in
the coldest month of winter is 2.7 C = 36.86 F ? or 4.5 C = 40.1 F?
(BTW the figure for NYC, 24.9 F, reflects the last century at best. In
the 10 years I>ve been back here, it>s rarely been below freezing, and
there has been maybe one snowfall a year that provided more than a
faint dusting if that.) |
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весна (Devich ya Vesna) |
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On Oct 19, 1:39 am, "Paul J Kriha" <paul.nospam.kr...@paradise.net.nz>
wrote:
[quote]benli...@ihug.co.nz wrote:
On Oct 19, 2:39 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 10:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 18, 3:44 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 5:19 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:24 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:cb6bf488-25f6-4a5b-bb4f-c786fe97f1dd@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com
in sci.lang:
[...]
[Indian summer]
[...]
It>s a specifically New England phenomenon (and I haven>t
heard the phrase in years); [...]
We get Indian summer in northeastern Ohio, and I do
occasionally hear (and use) the phrase.
Brian
And we used it (and some times had it) in Vancouver too.
? Vancouver is a "temperate rain forest," with even temperatures year
round. (In Seattle they still drive original VW Beetles because
there>s no rust because there>s no road salt because it never snows or
sleets. They even still have leaded gasoline for all the old cars.)
I don>t know where you>re getting all this stuff.
From my week in Vancouver for the 1994 LACUS meeting, and my weeks in
Seattle for the 1984 and 2000(?) AOS meetings.
Hm. Well, yes, I guess whole weeks do sometimes go by without snow and
with little variation in temperature....
But I couldn>t help myself. I went to worldclimate.com, where they
have heaps of stats for hundreds of places around the world. I looked
at the difference in temperature between 24-hour average temperatures
for January and July, to get an idea of the range. Here>s a sample, in
ascending order.
EXTREMELY SMALL (< 5 degrees Celsius)
Majuro (Marshall Islands) (0.1) [I looked at this because I had a
friend who once lived there and described it to me]
Bangkok, Nadi (Fiji), Brazzaville, Port Vila (Vanuatu), Honolulu, San
Francisco (4.6)
SMALL (5-10 degrees)
Rio de Janeiro, Lima, Los Angeles, San Diego, Auckland (8.4), Miami,
Calcutta
MEDIUM (10-20 degrees)
Sydney, London, Seattle (13.9), Cairo, Vancouver (14.6), Dubrovnik
LARGE (20-30 degrees)
Phoenix, New York (24.5), Scott Base (Antarctica), Bagdad, Toronto,
Moscow, Chicago (28.9)
EXTREMELY LARGE (> 30 degrees)
Beijing, Edmonton, Vladivostok, Novosibirsk, Fargo ND (35.5)
Ross Clark
A few months ago the local lowest night temperature went
from 5 Centigrades one night to 10 Centigrades next night.
The comentator inserted her own ad lib comment:
"the night yesterday was twice as warm as the day before".
:-)
I would love to hear her commentary when the temperature
drops to zero. But it does that only very infrequently.
[/quote]
Just yesterday I saw a chart that gave ordinary temperatures like that
in K. It wasn>t terribly helpful. Maybe she could calculate the ratio
of 273 to 278? |
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весна (Devich ya Vesna) |
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On Oct 19, 1:27 am, "Paul J Kriha" <paul.nospam.kr...@paradise.net.nz>
wrote:
[quote]DK wrote:
In article <u63np8kqt....@verizon.net>, Joe Fineman <jo...@verizon.net> wrote:
d...@no.email.thankstospam.net (DK) writes:
OK, so on a strength of 1) the original meaning of "baba" in Slavic
languages seems to be old woman/grandma and 2) German
"altweibersommer", I concur that bab>e leto means Old Women>s
Summer.
That has been my impression since I first happened on the phrase (I am
very far from being a fluent speaker of Russian). However, I suspect
that "baba" at least sometimes has a derogatory connotation as in
Polish.
Yes, it does. As you say, it has the boorish flavour. But not always.
Among peasants in the past, "baba" simply meant woman
(grown up/married; "devka" for unmarried). Today, this is obsolete
and besides new boorish usage there is also somewhat endearing
meaning, mostly in the jokeful context.
Like in Polish, in different Czech dialects "baba" may or may not
have derogatory meaning. Generally "baba" means "old crone"
but there large dialectal areas where it means plain old woman
or specifically grandmother. In the central dialect in which it
means old crone, grandother is "babic^ka" which is a grammatical
diminutive of "baba" or "bАba". In fact in Cz there are two distinct
words "baba" and "bАba" with similar meaning, former of which
has stronger derogatory connotation, not only old and ugly but
also unpleasant and disagreable.
[/quote]
Note that feminists are trying to rehabilitate "crone" (though not
"hag") as a neutral or positive term for old woman. It doesn>t seem to
be succeeding nearly as well as "queer" or "nigga" or "Ms."
[quote]As in: "prostoe bab>e schast>e",
"sorok pyat' - baba yagodka opyat'", "eh, baby, baby!".
Not to mention "snezhnaya baba" = snowman!
But, Rus. "yezhibaba" and Cz "jez^ibaba" = old witch :-)[/quote] |
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benlizro@ihug.co.nz
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весна (Devich ya Vesna) |
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On Oct 20, 1:09═am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 18, 11:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 19, 4:21 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 5:35 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 19, 2:39 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 10:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 18, 3:44 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 5:19 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:24 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:cb6bf488-25f6-4a5b-bb4f-c786fe97f1dd@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com
in sci.lang:
[...]
[Indian summer]
[...]
It>s a specifically New England phenomenon (and I haven>t
heard the phrase in years); [...]
We get Indian summer in northeastern Ohio, and I do
occasionally hear (and use) the phrase.
Brian
And we used it (and some times had it) in Vancouver too.
? Vancouver is a "temperate rain forest," with even temperatures year
round. (In Seattle they still drive original VW Beetles because
there>s no rust because there>s no road salt because it never snows or
sleets. They even still have leaded gasoline for all the old cars.)
I don>t know where you>re getting all this stuff.
From my week in Vancouver for the 1994 LACUS meeting, and my weeks in
Seattle for the 1984 and 2000(?) AOS meetings.
Hm. Well, yes, I guess whole weeks do sometimes go by without snow and
with little variation in temperature....
But I couldn>t help myself. I went to worldclimate.com, where they
have heaps of stats for hundreds of places around the world. I looked
at the difference in temperature between 24-hour average temperatures
for January and July, to get an idea of the range. Here>s a sample, in
ascending order.
EXTREMELY SMALL (< 5 degrees Celsius)
Majuro (Marshall Islands) (0.1) [I looked at this because I had a
friend who once lived there and described it to me]
Bangkok, Nadi (Fiji), Brazzaville, Port Vila (Vanuatu), Honolulu, San
Francisco (4.6)
SMALL (5-10 degrees)
Rio de Janeiro, Lima, Los Angeles, San Diego, Auckland (8.4), Miami,
Calcutta
MEDIUM (10-20 degrees)
Sydney, London, Seattle (13.9), Cairo, Vancouver (14.6), Dubrovnik
The point is not the amount of difference between the coldest and
hottest months.
But it is the point. It is in response to your claim that Vancouver
has "even temperatures year round". ═If you want a place with even
temperatures year round, you want to go to San Francisco, or if that
is still not even enough, head for the tropics. The above figures are
sufficient to show that in both Vancouver and Seattle there is a clear
difference between summer and winter temperatures, albeit smaller than
in the places you are used to.
The point is that the coldest months are not cold.
Maybe they>re talking a range from 5 to 20 (41-68 F). Or 10-25 (50-77
F).
No, this is a new point you have introduced. The relevant January
temperatures, if you>re interested, are: Chicago -6.1, New York -0.4,
Vancouver 2.7, Seattle 4.5. If you want to be a climate snob and say
that the first two are "cold" but the others are not, you go ahead.
I>ve encountered climate snobs all my life. My grandparents used to
have a little rhyme whose last line went "...but we don>t call this
cold in Quebec!" (where they came from). But this has nothing to do
with the possibility of having an "Indian summer".
How much snow and sleet can you get when your _average_ temperature in
the coldest month of winter is 2.7 C = 36.86 F ? or 4.5 C = 40.1 F?
[/quote]
You could look up the figures for snowfall. Remember the temperatures
are 24-hour averages.
If your theory is telling you it couldn>t possibly snow, time to
revise your theory. It does. But if all you want to say is "Hah! Call
that snow?", then feel free. Just remember that snow has nothing to do
with Indian summer.
[quote]
(BTW the figure for NYC, 24.9 F, reflects the last century at best. In
the 10 years I>ve been back here, it>s rarely been below freezing, and
there has been maybe one snowfall a year that provided more than a
faint dusting if that.)
[/quote]
I>m not sure where your 24.9 figure comes from. The figures on
worldclimate.com are from series of various lengths, from 30 up to
more than 100 years, but tend to terminate in the 1990s.
Ross Clark |
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весна (Devich ya Vesna) |
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On Oct 19, 8:31 am, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 20, 1:09 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 11:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 19, 4:21 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 5:35 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 19, 2:39 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 10:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 18, 3:44 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 5:19 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:24 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:cb6bf488-25f6-4a5b-bb4f-c786fe97f1dd@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com
in sci.lang:
[...]
[Indian summer]
[...]
It>s a specifically New England phenomenon (and I haven>t
heard the phrase in years); [...]
We get Indian summer in northeastern Ohio, and I do
occasionally hear (and use) the phrase.
Brian
And we used it (and some times had it) in Vancouver too.
? Vancouver is a "temperate rain forest," with even temperatures year
round. (In Seattle they still drive original VW Beetles because
there>s no rust because there>s no road salt because it never snows or
sleets. They even still have leaded gasoline for all the old cars.)
I don>t know where you>re getting all this stuff.
From my week in Vancouver for the 1994 LACUS meeting, and my weeks in
Seattle for the 1984 and 2000(?) AOS meetings.
Hm. Well, yes, I guess whole weeks do sometimes go by without snow and
with little variation in temperature....
But I couldn>t help myself. I went to worldclimate.com, where they
have heaps of stats for hundreds of places around the world. I looked
at the difference in temperature between 24-hour average temperatures
for January and July, to get an idea of the range. Here>s a sample, in
ascending order.
EXTREMELY SMALL (< 5 degrees Celsius)
Majuro (Marshall Islands) (0.1) [I looked at this because I had a
friend who once lived there and described it to me]
Bangkok, Nadi (Fiji), Brazzaville, Port Vila (Vanuatu), Honolulu, San
Francisco (4.6)
SMALL (5-10 degrees)
Rio de Janeiro, Lima, Los Angeles, San Diego, Auckland (8.4), Miami,
Calcutta
MEDIUM (10-20 degrees)
Sydney, London, Seattle (13.9), Cairo, Vancouver (14.6), Dubrovnik
The point is not the amount of difference between the coldest and
hottest months.
But it is the point. It is in response to your claim that Vancouver
has "even temperatures year round". If you want a place with even
temperatures year round, you want to go to San Francisco, or if that
is still not even enough, head for the tropics. The above figures are
sufficient to show that in both Vancouver and Seattle there is a clear
difference between summer and winter temperatures, albeit smaller than
in the places you are used to.
The point is that the coldest months are not cold.
Maybe they>re talking a range from 5 to 20 (41-68 F). Or 10-25 (50-77
F).
No, this is a new point you have introduced. The relevant January
temperatures, if you>re interested, are: Chicago -6.1, New York -0.4,
Vancouver 2.7, Seattle 4.5. If you want to be a climate snob and say
that the first two are "cold" but the others are not, you go ahead.
I>ve encountered climate snobs all my life. My grandparents used to
have a little rhyme whose last line went "...but we don>t call this
cold in Quebec!" (where they came from). But this has nothing to do
with the possibility of having an "Indian summer".
How much snow and sleet can you get when your _average_ temperature in
the coldest month of winter is 2.7 C = 36.86 F ? or 4.5 C = 40.1 F?
You could look up the figures for snowfall. Remember the temperatures
are 24-hour averages.
If your theory is telling you it couldn>t possibly snow, time to
revise your theory. It does. But if all you want to say is "Hah! Call
that snow?", then feel free. Just remember that snow has nothing to do
with Indian summer.
[/quote]
That>s right. I noted that antique cars are still driven in Seattle
because there>s no road salt because there>s no snow/sleet to melt.
And that Vancouver brags about its Temperate Rainforest climate, which
makes possible that huge park that>s literally like a jungle out
there.
[quote](BTW the figure for NYC, 24.9 F, reflects the last century at best. In
the 10 years I>ve been back here, it>s rarely been below freezing, and
there has been maybe one snowfall a year that provided more than a
faint dusting if that.)
I>m not sure where your 24.9 figure comes from. The figures on
worldclimate.com are from series of various lengths, from 30 up to
more than 100 years, but tend to terminate in the 1990s.
[/quote]
F = 9C/5 + 32
C = (5/9) (F - 32)
1890-1990 (there are daily weather records for NYC going back at least
to the 1830s) is before global warming had led to noticeable climate
change.
(Incidentally I was in Vancouver in August and Seattle in March.) |
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John Atkinson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весна (Devichya V esna) |
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Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote:
[quote]John Atkinson wrote:
ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com wrote:
On Oct 16, 11:38 pm, qquito <qqu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Could anyone tell what the meaning of Девичья весна (Devichya
Vesna)
What>s the difference between ч and чь?
чя> (if it was ever used -- I>m pretty sure it isn>t) would be the
palatal voiceless stop followed by /a /. <чья> is the palatal
voiceless stop followed by /ja /.
Word-final <-чь> is also used (instead of <-ч>, which would be
pronounced exactly the same) in the nominative of nouns belonging to
the third declension, and the infinitive of verbs whose stem ends in
a velar. <я> denotes two different things. When preceded by a consonant
it
palatalizes ("softens") it. Elsewhere, it means that the vowel is
preceded by the palatal glide.
The palatal voiceless stop <ч> actually only occurs palatalized
(unlike most other consonants), so to write <чя> rather than the
standard <чa> would be marking the palatalization twice. Presumably
that>s why they don>t use it in Russian. However with other
consonants, there can be a four-way contrast between <Ca> (consonant
C unpalatalised followed by /a /), <Cя> (C palatalized followed by
/a /), <Cъя> (C unpalatalized followed by /ja /), and <Cья> (C
palatalized followed by /ja /). Have I got this right Paul?
John
Translate into Russian
Whose boy is this?
Whose girl is this?
Whose business is it anyway?
[/quote]
чей, чья, чьё, innit? I seem to be missing your point, could you elucidate?
J.
е ё и й |
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John Atkinson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: The Meaning of п■п╣п╡п╦я┤я▄я▐ п╡п╣я│п╫п╟ (Devichya Vesn |
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ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com wrote:
[quote]On Oct 18, 8:02 pm, "John Atkinson" <johna...@bigpond.com> wrote:
ranjit_math...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Oct 16, 11:38 pm, qquito <qqu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Could anyone tell what the meaning of ц╓ц┘ц≈ц┴ц·ц≤ц▒ ц≈ц┘ц⌠ц▌ц│ (Devichya
Vesna)
What>s the difference between ц· and ц·ц≤?
The palatal voiceless stop <ц·> actually only occurs palatalized
(unlike most other consonants), so to write <ц·ц▒> rather than the
standard <ц·a> would be marking the palatalization twice.
For some reason, the Cyrillic in your reply is garbled, except for the
subject line. So, let me call the Y-like grapheme a <c> and call the
palatalizing 'b' a <;>. I fancy that some of the <c>s in a recording
of Anna Karenina seemed like either French <ch> or Mandarin <zh>.
[/quote]
They shouldn>t. French <ch> corresponds most closely to Russian <я┬> (IPA S,
unpalatalized), not <я┤> (IPA tS, palatalized). I think "tS" does lose
closure and become a palatalized version of "S" in some environments
(clusters) though -- maybe that>s what you heard.
[quote]Presumably that>s why they don>t use it in Russian.
I didn>t know Devichya was not Russian; the original posting was
crossposted to a Russian newsgroup.
[/quote]
Why shouldn>t it be Russian? It>d be an obvious derivative from deva,
"virgin, maiden". Admittedly, my little Russian dictionary doesn>t have it,
only devitsa, devochka, devushka, and the adjectives devicheskaya and
devctvennaya -- maybe it>s a bit archaic.
But it>s spelled devich>ya in Cyrillic transcription (<c><;>ya in your
notation) _not_ devichya (<c>ya). As I said, <c>ya isn>t used in Russian
spelling, AFAIK.
[...]
John. |
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Ruud Harmsen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: The Meaning of ??????? ????? (Devichya Vesna) |
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Sun, 19 Oct 2008 09:51:30 GMT: "John Atkinson" <johnacko@bigpond.com>:
in sci.lang:
[quote]They shouldn>t. French <ch> corresponds most closely to Russian <?> (IPA S,
unpalatalized), not <?> (IPA tS, palatalized).
[/quote]
Think so too: http://rudhar.com/fonetics/shs/shs.htm
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com |
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benlizro@ihug.co.nz
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весна (Devich ya Vesna) |
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On Oct 20, 2:04═am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 19, 8:31 am, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 20, 1:09 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 11:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 19, 4:21 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 5:35 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 19, 2:39 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 10:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 18, 3:44 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 5:19 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:24 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:cb6bf488-25f6-4a5b-bb4f-c786fe97f1dd@75g2000hso..googlegroups.com
in sci.lang:
[...]
[Indian summer]
[...]
It>s a specifically New England phenomenon (and I haven>t
heard the phrase in years); [...]
We get Indian summer in northeastern Ohio, and I do
occasionally hear (and use) the phrase.
Brian
And we used it (and some times had it) in Vancouver too..
? Vancouver is a "temperate rain forest," with even temperatures year
round. (In Seattle they still drive original VW Beetles because
there>s no rust because there>s no road salt because it never snows or
sleets. They even still have leaded gasoline for all the old cars.)
I don>t know where you>re getting all this stuff.
From my week in Vancouver for the 1994 LACUS meeting, and my weeks in
Seattle for the 1984 and 2000(?) AOS meetings.
Hm. Well, yes, I guess whole weeks do sometimes go by without snow and
with little variation in temperature....
But I couldn>t help myself. I went to worldclimate.com, where they
have heaps of stats for hundreds of places around the world. I looked
at the difference in temperature between 24-hour average temperatures
for January and July, to get an idea of the range. Here>s a sample, in
ascending order.
EXTREMELY SMALL (< 5 degrees Celsius)
Majuro (Marshall Islands) (0.1) [I looked at this because I had a
friend who once lived there and described it to me]
Bangkok, Nadi (Fiji), Brazzaville, Port Vila (Vanuatu), Honolulu, San
Francisco (4.6)
SMALL (5-10 degrees)
Rio de Janeiro, Lima, Los Angeles, San Diego, Auckland (8.4), Miami,
Calcutta
MEDIUM (10-20 degrees)
Sydney, London, Seattle (13.9), Cairo, Vancouver (14.6), Dubrovnik
The point is not the amount of difference between the coldest and
hottest months.
But it is the point. It is in response to your claim that Vancouver
has "even temperatures year round". ═If you want a place with even
temperatures year round, you want to go to San Francisco, or if that
is still not even enough, head for the tropics. The above figures are
sufficient to show that in both Vancouver and Seattle there is a clear
difference between summer and winter temperatures, albeit smaller than
in the places you are used to.
The point is that the coldest months are not cold.
Maybe they>re talking a range from 5 to 20 (41-68 F). Or 10-25 (50-77
F).
No, this is a new point you have introduced. The relevant January
temperatures, if you>re interested, are: Chicago -6.1, New York -0.4,
Vancouver 2.7, Seattle 4.5. If you want to be a climate snob and say
that the first two are "cold" but the others are not, you go ahead.
I>ve encountered climate snobs all my life. My grandparents used to
have a little rhyme whose last line went "...but we don>t call this
cold in Quebec!" (where they came from). But this has nothing to do
with the possibility of having an "Indian summer".
How much snow and sleet can you get when your _average_ temperature in
the coldest month of winter is 2.7 C = 36.86 F ? or 4.5 C = 40.1 F?
You could look up the figures for snowfall. Remember the temperatures
are 24-hour averages.
If your theory is telling you it couldn>t possibly snow, time to
revise your theory. It does. But if all you want to say is "Hah! Call
that snow?", then feel free. Just remember that snow has nothing to do
with Indian summer.
That>s right. I noted that antique cars are still driven in Seattle
because there>s no road salt because there>s no snow/sleet to melt.
[/quote]
Actually what you said is "it never snows or sleets", which is untrue.
But because of the generally milder temperatures it probably melts
itself out of the way more readily than it does back east. In
Vancouver it would hang around the streets in the form of slush.
[quote]And that Vancouver brags about its Temperate Rainforest climate, which
makes possible that huge park that>s literally like a jungle out
there.
[/quote]
I>m not sure how the climate is supposed to make the park possible.
"Temperate rainforest" is a vegetation type. It depends on plenty of
rain, but snow>s OK too.
[quote]
(BTW the figure for NYC, 24.9 F, reflects the last century at best. In
the 10 years I>ve been back here, it>s rarely been below freezing, and
there has been maybe one snowfall a year that provided more than a
faint dusting if that.)
I>m not sure where your 24.9 figure comes from. The figures on
worldclimate.com are from series of various lengths, from 30 up to
more than 100 years, but tend to terminate in the 1990s.
F = 9C/5 + 32
C = (5/9) (F - 32)
[/quote]
Yes, I know that. It looks now as if you misread -0.4 as -4.
Ross Clark
[quote]1890-1990 (there are daily weather records for NYC going back at least
to the 1830s) is before global warming had led to noticeable climate
change.
(Incidentally I was in Vancouver in August and Seattle in March.)[/quote] |
|
| |
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| Back to top |
Peter T. Daniels
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весна (Devich ya Vesna) |
|
|
On Oct 19, 3:07 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 20, 2:04 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 19, 8:31 am, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 20, 1:09 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 11:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 19, 4:21 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 5:35 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 19, 2:39 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 10:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 18, 3:44 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 5:19 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:24 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:cb6bf488-25f6-4a5b-bb4f-c786fe97f1dd@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com
in sci.lang:
[...]
[Indian summer]
[...]
It>s a specifically New England phenomenon (and I haven>t
heard the phrase in years); [...]
We get Indian summer in northeastern Ohio, and I do
occasionally hear (and use) the phrase.
Brian
And we used it (and some times had it) in Vancouver too.
? Vancouver is a "temperate rain forest," with even temperatures year
round. (In Seattle they still drive original VW Beetles because
there>s no rust because there>s no road salt because it never snows or
sleets. They even still have leaded gasoline for all the old cars.)
I don>t know where you>re getting all this stuff.
From my week in Vancouver for the 1994 LACUS meeting, and my weeks in
Seattle for the 1984 and 2000(?) AOS meetings.
Hm. Well, yes, I guess whole weeks do sometimes go by without snow and
with little variation in temperature....
But I couldn>t help myself. I went to worldclimate.com, where they
have heaps of stats for hundreds of places around the world. I looked
at the difference in temperature between 24-hour average temperatures
for January and July, to get an idea of the range. Here>s a sample, in
ascending order.
EXTREMELY SMALL (< 5 degrees Celsius)
Majuro (Marshall Islands) (0.1) [I looked at this because I had a
friend who once lived there and described it to me]
Bangkok, Nadi (Fiji), Brazzaville, Port Vila (Vanuatu), Honolulu, San
Francisco (4.6)
SMALL (5-10 degrees)
Rio de Janeiro, Lima, Los Angeles, San Diego, Auckland (8.4), Miami,
Calcutta
MEDIUM (10-20 degrees)
Sydney, London, Seattle (13.9), Cairo, Vancouver (14.6), Dubrovnik
The point is not the amount of difference between the coldest and
hottest months.
But it is the point. It is in response to your claim that Vancouver
has "even temperatures year round". If you want a place with even
temperatures year round, you want to go to San Francisco, or if that
is still not even enough, head for the tropics. The above figures are
sufficient to show that in both Vancouver and Seattle there is a clear
difference between summer and winter temperatures, albeit smaller than
in the places you are used to.
The point is that the coldest months are not cold.
Maybe they>re talking a range from 5 to 20 (41-68 F). Or 10-25 (50-77
F).
No, this is a new point you have introduced. The relevant January
temperatures, if you>re interested, are: Chicago -6.1, New York -0.4,
Vancouver 2.7, Seattle 4.5. If you want to be a climate snob and say
that the first two are "cold" but the others are not, you go ahead.
I>ve encountered climate snobs all my life. My grandparents used to
have a little rhyme whose last line went "...but we don>t call this
cold in Quebec!" (where they came from). But this has nothing to do
with the possibility of having an "Indian summer".
How much snow and sleet can you get when your _average_ temperature in
the coldest month of winter is 2.7 C = 36.86 F ? or 4.5 C = 40.1 F?
You could look up the figures for snowfall. Remember the temperatures
are 24-hour averages.
If your theory is telling you it couldn>t possibly snow, time to
revise your theory. It does. But if all you want to say is "Hah! Call
that snow?", then feel free. Just remember that snow has nothing to do
with Indian summer.
That>s right. I noted that antique cars are still driven in Seattle
because there>s no road salt because there>s no snow/sleet to melt.
Actually what you said is "it never snows or sleets", which is untrue.
But because of the generally milder temperatures it probably melts
itself out of the way more readily than it does back east. In
Vancouver it would hang around the streets in the form of slush.
[/quote]
Maybe they need better storm sewers. Do car bodies rust there?
[quote]And that Vancouver brags about its Temperate Rainforest climate, which
makes possible that huge park that>s literally like a jungle out
there.
I>m not sure how the climate is supposed to make the park possible.
"Temperate rainforest" is a vegetation type. It depends on plenty of
rain, but snow>s OK too.
[/quote]
Most perennial flora are quite sensitive to freezing.
[quote](BTW the figure for NYC, 24.9 F, reflects the last century at best. In
the 10 years I>ve been back here, it>s rarely been below freezing, and
there has been maybe one snowfall a year that provided more than a
faint dusting if that.)
I>m not sure where your 24.9 figure comes from. The figures on
worldclimate.com are from series of various lengths, from 30 up to
more than 100 years, but tend to terminate in the 1990s.
F = 9C/5 + 32
C = (5/9) (F - 32)
Yes, I know that. It looks now as if you misread -0.4 as -4.
[/quote]
32.7 F is also hard to believe. In the last ten years, it rarely goes
below freezing even overnight. There were a couple of cold snaps a few
days' duration.
[quote]1890-1990 (there are daily weather records for NYC going back at least
to the 1830s) is before global warming had led to noticeable climate
change.
(Incidentally I was in Vancouver in August and Seattle in March.)[/quote] |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Brian M. Scott
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весна (Devichya Vesna) |
|
|
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 05:31:08 -0700 (PDT),
"benlizro@ihug.co.nz" <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote in
<news:d362d8af-2db5-498a-b5cc-932a3d08126e@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
in sci.lang:
[quote]On Oct 20, 1:09═am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 11:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
[/quote]
[...]
[quote]No, this is a new point you have introduced. The
relevant January temperatures, if you>re interested,
are: Chicago -6.1, New York -0.4, Vancouver 2.7,
Seattle 4.5. If you want to be a climate snob and say
that the first two are "cold" but the others are not,
you go ahead. I>ve encountered climate snobs all my
life. My grandparents used to have a little rhyme whose
last line went "...but we don>t call this cold in
Quebec!" (where they came from). But this has nothing
to do with the possibility of having an "Indian
summer".
How much snow and sleet can you get when your _average_
temperature in the coldest month of winter is 2.7 C =
36.86 F ? or 4.5 C = 40.1 F?
You could look up the figures for snowfall. Remember the
temperatures are 24-hour averages.
[/quote]
SeaTac, covering the 48 years between 1948-9 and 195-6 for
which the compiler of the table that I found had records:
mean annual snowfall 11.75 in. There were two years in the
sample in which it exceeded five feet, but they were
exceptional; the next worst was just 29.2 in.
Vancouver International Airport, 1971-2000: mean annual
snowfall 48.2 cm (~19 in). However, the variance is high,
with peak one-day snowfalls of 22.1 cm (3 Nov 89), 41 cm (25
Dec 72), 29.7 cm (18 Jan 68), 28.6 cm (13 Feb 82), and 25.9
cm (9 Mar 74).
As for New York: JFK has averaged 22.7 in. annually over a
45-year period; Laguardia has averaged 26.0 in. annually
over a 58-year period; and Central Park has averaged 28.4
in. annually over a 134-year period. (The data are through
2002.)
[...]
Brian |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
benlizro@ihug.co.nz
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весна (Devich ya Vesna) |
|
|
On Oct 20, 9:19═am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 19, 3:07 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 20, 2:04 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 19, 8:31 am, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 20, 1:09 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 11:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 19, 4:21 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 5:35 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 19, 2:39 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 10:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug..co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 18, 3:44 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 5:19 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:24 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:cb6bf488-25f6-4a5b-bb4f-c786fe97f1dd@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com
in sci.lang:
[...]
[Indian summer]
[...]
It>s a specifically New England phenomenon (and I haven>t
heard the phrase in years); [...]
We get Indian summer in northeastern Ohio, and I do
occasionally hear (and use) the phrase.
Brian
And we used it (and some times had it) in Vancouver too.
? Vancouver is a "temperate rain forest," with even temperatures year
round. (In Seattle they still drive original VW Beetles because
there>s no rust because there>s no road salt because it never snows or
sleets. They even still have leaded gasoline for all the old cars.)
I don>t know where you>re getting all this stuff.
From my week in Vancouver for the 1994 LACUS meeting, and my weeks in
Seattle for the 1984 and 2000(?) AOS meetings.
Hm. Well, yes, I guess whole weeks do sometimes go by without snow and
with little variation in temperature....
But I couldn>t help myself. I went to worldclimate.com, where they
have heaps of stats for hundreds of places around the world.. I looked
at the difference in temperature between 24-hour average temperatures
for January and July, to get an idea of the range. Here>s a sample, in
ascending order.
EXTREMELY SMALL (< 5 degrees Celsius)
Majuro (Marshall Islands) (0.1) [I looked at this because I had a
friend who once lived there and described it to me]
Bangkok, Nadi (Fiji), Brazzaville, Port Vila (Vanuatu), Honolulu, San
Francisco (4.6)
SMALL (5-10 degrees)
Rio de Janeiro, Lima, Los Angeles, San Diego, Auckland (8.4), Miami,
Calcutta
MEDIUM (10-20 degrees)
Sydney, London, Seattle (13.9), Cairo, Vancouver (14.6), Dubrovnik
The point is not the amount of difference between the coldest and
hottest months.
But it is the point. It is in response to your claim that Vancouver
has "even temperatures year round". ═If you want a place with even
temperatures year round, you want to go to San Francisco, or if that
is still not even enough, head for the tropics. The above figures are
sufficient to show that in both Vancouver and Seattle there is a clear
difference between summer and winter temperatures, albeit smaller than
in the places you are used to.
The point is that the coldest months are not cold.
Maybe they>re talking a range from 5 to 20 (41-68 F). Or 10-25 (50-77
F).
No, this is a new point you have introduced. The relevant January
temperatures, if you>re interested, are: Chicago -6.1, New York -0.4,
Vancouver 2.7, Seattle 4.5. If you want to be a climate snob and say
that the first two are "cold" but the others are not, you go ahead.
I>ve encountered climate snobs all my life. My grandparents used to
have a little rhyme whose last line went "...but we don>t call this
cold in Quebec!" (where they came from). But this has nothing to do
with the possibility of having an "Indian summer".
How much snow and sleet can you get when your _average_ temperature in
the coldest month of winter is 2.7 C = 36.86 F ? or 4.5 C = 40.1 F?
You could look up the figures for snowfall. Remember the temperatures
are 24-hour averages.
If your theory is telling you it couldn>t possibly snow, time to
revise your theory. It does. But if all you want to say is "Hah! Call
that snow?", then feel free. Just remember that snow has nothing to do
with Indian summer.
That>s right. I noted that antique cars are still driven in Seattle
because there>s no road salt because there>s no snow/sleet to melt.
Actually what you said is "it never snows or sleets", which is untrue.
But because of the generally milder temperatures it probably melts
itself out of the way more readily than it does back east. In
Vancouver it would hang around the streets in the form of slush.
Maybe they need better storm sewers. Do car bodies rust there?
And that Vancouver brags about its Temperate Rainforest climate, which
makes possible that huge park that>s literally like a jungle out
there.
I>m not sure how the climate is supposed to make the park possible.
"Temperate rainforest" is a vegetation type. It depends on plenty of
rain, but snow>s OK too.
Most perennial flora are quite sensitive to freezing.
[/quote]
Perennial flora which have evolved in areas where it snows and freezes
(including coastal BC) somehow manage to survive. I>ve even heard it
suggested that the down-sloping branches of many common conifers of
the coastal forest are an adaptation to shed snow which might
otherwise break them off.
But I still don>t get how this makes Stanley Park possible.
Ross Clark
[quote]
(BTW the figure for NYC, 24.9 F, reflects the last century at best. In
the 10 years I>ve been back here, it>s rarely been below freezing, and
there has been maybe one snowfall a year that provided more than a
faint dusting if that.)
I>m not sure where your 24.9 figure comes from. The figures on
worldclimate.com are from series of various lengths, from 30 up to
more than 100 years, but tend to terminate in the 1990s.
F = 9C/5 + 32
C = (5/9) (F - 32)
Yes, I know that. It looks now as if you misread -0.4 as -4.
32.7 F is also hard to believe. In the last ten years, it rarely goes
below freezing even overnight. There were a couple of cold snaps a few
days' duration.
1890-1990 (there are daily weather records for NYC going back at least
to the 1830s) is before global warming had led to noticeable climate
change.
(Incidentally I was in Vancouver in August and Seattle in March.)
[/quote] |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Peter T. Daniels
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весна (Devich ya Vesna) |
|
|
On Oct 19, 6:14 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 20, 9:19 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 19, 3:07 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 20, 2:04 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 19, 8:31 am, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 20, 1:09 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 11:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 19, 4:21 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 18, 5:35 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 19, 2:39 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 10:51 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz
wrote:
On Oct 18, 3:44 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 5:19 pm, "benli...@ihug.co.nz" <benli...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:24 am, "Brian M. Scott" <b.sc...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
news:cb6bf488-25f6-4a5b-bb4f-c786fe97f1dd@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com
in sci.lang:
[...]
[Indian summer]
[...]
It>s a specifically New England phenomenon (and I haven>t
heard the phrase in years); [...]
We get Indian summer in northeastern Ohio, and I do
occasionally hear (and use) the phrase.
Brian
And we used it (and some times had it) in Vancouver too.
? Vancouver is a "temperate rain forest," with even temperatures year
round. (In Seattle they still drive original VW Beetles because
there>s no rust because there>s no road salt because it never snows or
sleets. They even still have leaded gasoline for all the old cars.)
I don>t know where you>re getting all this stuff.
From my week in Vancouver for the 1994 LACUS meeting, and my weeks in
Seattle for the 1984 and 2000(?) AOS meetings.
Hm. Well, yes, I guess whole weeks do sometimes go by without snow and
with little variation in temperature....
But I couldn>t help myself. I went to worldclimate.com, where they
have heaps of stats for hundreds of places around the world. I looked
at the difference in temperature between 24-hour average temperatures
for January and July, to get an idea of the range. Here>s a sample, in
ascending order.
EXTREMELY SMALL (< 5 degrees Celsius)
Majuro (Marshall Islands) (0.1) [I looked at this because I had a
friend who once lived there and described it to me]
Bangkok, Nadi (Fiji), Brazzaville, Port Vila (Vanuatu), Honolulu, San
Francisco (4.6)
SMALL (5-10 degrees)
Rio de Janeiro, Lima, Los Angeles, San Diego, Auckland (8.4), Miami,
Calcutta
MEDIUM (10-20 degrees)
Sydney, London, Seattle (13.9), Cairo, Vancouver (14.6), Dubrovnik
The point is not the amount of difference between the coldest and
hottest months.
But it is the point. It is in response to your claim that Vancouver
has "even temperatures year round". If you want a place with even
temperatures year round, you want to go to San Francisco, or if that
is still not even enough, head for the tropics. The above figures are
sufficient to show that in both Vancouver and Seattle there is a clear
difference between summer and winter temperatures, albeit smaller than
in the places you are used to.
The point is that the coldest months are not cold.
Maybe they>re talking a range from 5 to 20 (41-68 F). Or 10-25 (50-77
F).
No, this is a new point you have introduced. The relevant January
temperatures, if you>re interested, are: Chicago -6.1, New York -0.4,
Vancouver 2.7, Seattle 4.5. If you want to be a climate snob and say
that the first two are "cold" but the others are not, you go ahead.
I>ve encountered climate snobs all my life. My grandparents used to
have a little rhyme whose last line went "...but we don>t call this
cold in Quebec!" (where they came from). But this has nothing to do
with the possibility of having an "Indian summer".
How much snow and sleet can you get when your _average_ temperature in
the coldest month of winter is 2.7 C = 36.86 F ? or 4.5 C = 40.1 F?
You could look up the figures for snowfall. Remember the temperatures
are 24-hour averages.
If your theory is telling you it couldn>t possibly snow, time to
revise your theory. It does. But if all you want to say is "Hah! Call
that snow?", then feel free. Just remember that snow has nothing to do
with Indian summer.
That>s right. I noted that antique cars are still driven in Seattle
because there>s no road salt because there>s no snow/sleet to melt.
Actually what you said is "it never snows or sleets", which is untrue.
But because of the generally milder temperatures it probably melts
itself out of the way more readily than it does back east. In
Vancouver it would hang around the streets in the form of slush.
Maybe they need better storm sewers. Do car bodies rust there?
And that Vancouver brags about its Temperate Rainforest climate, which
makes possible that huge park that>s literally like a jungle out
there.
I>m not sure how the climate is supposed to make the park possible.
"Temperate rainforest" is a vegetation type. It depends on plenty of
rain, but snow>s OK too.
Most perennial flora are quite sensitive to freezing.
Perennial flora which have evolved in areas where it snows and freezes
(including coastal BC) somehow manage to survive. I>ve even heard it
suggested that the down-sloping branches of many common conifers of
the coastal forest are an adaptation to shed snow which might
otherwise break them off.
But I still don>t get how this makes Stanley Park possible.
[/quote]
Is it a deciduous forest, like ours in the Northeast? |
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captain.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весна (Devichya Vesna) |
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"Paul J Kriha" <paul.nospam.kriha@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:48f98da5@clear.net.nz...
[quote]Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote:
Paul J Kriha wrote:
benlizro@ihug.co.nz wrote:
On Oct 17, 8:50 pm, Craoibhi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Oct 17, 9:38 am, qquito <qqu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Everybody:
Could anyone tell what the meaning of "Девичья весна" (Devichya
Vesna)
is? This is the title of a 1963 USSR film, and there is a beautiful
song (sung by the famous Chaliapin) from this film "Вниз по матушке
по
Волге" (Vniz po matushke po Volge) which can be heard/viewed
athttp://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=EWEttp7OEOE. Does the title of the
song
mean "Along the Mother River Volga"?
Could you give a proper translation of both the movie title and the
song title?
Thank you for reading and replying!
"Devichya vesna" means something like "The Virgin-like Spring", and
yes, the song-title means "Down the Mother-River Volga".
It>s the adjective form of "devitsa", which is like English "maid",
i.e. "virgin/girl" from back when those were synonymous. "Maiden
spring"? I>m wondering if it>s an idiom, like "Indian summer".
AFAIR, there is indeed such a pan-Slavic idiom. It means early spring
when trees are still mostly bare, i.e. the time of the year when
the migratory birds are arriving from the south, when they are starting
to sing but not yet courting and the flowers are not yet fertilized.
I assume, even though the words are not cognate at all, the Russian
"devichya vjesna" is the same concept as e.g. Czech "pannenskИ jaro"
(virgin-girl or maiden spring).
Recently, i.e. in the 20th century, "Red-Indian summer" for the late
summer was calqued into Slavic languages. Traditional native Slavic
expressions often refer to travelling spiders' cobwebs that fly high
in the air in the late summer.
In Ukrainian the Indian summer season is called BABYNE LITO
i.e. Grandmothers summer.
Thanks, Rostyslaw, that confirms to me that it is indeed
a pan-Slavic expression. In Slovak and Czech it>s "babМ lИto".
You also reminded me that the original meaning was "grandmother>s".
The late summer flying cobwebs of the tiny migratory spiders
must be a later secondary meaning of "babМ lИto".
Can Ukrainian "babyne lito" also used in that sense?
pjk
[/quote]
http://gov.cap.ru/home/58/shakirov/?????%20????.jpg
it>s a great time of year when it comes |
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Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: Re: The Meaning of Девичья весн а (Devichya Vesna) |
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John Atkinson wrote:
[quote]Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote:
John Atkinson wrote:
ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com wrote:
On Oct 16, 11:38 pm, qquito <qqu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Could anyone tell what the meaning of Девичья весна (Devichya
Vesna)
What>s the difference between ч and чь?
чя> (if it was ever used -- I>m pretty sure it isn>t) would be the
palatal voiceless stop followed by /a /. <чья> is the palatal
voiceless stop followed by /ja /.
Word-final <-чь> is also used (instead of <-ч>, which would be
pronounced exactly the same) in the nominative of nouns belonging to
the third declension, and the infinitive of verbs whose stem ends in
a velar. <я> denotes two different things. When preceded by a
consonant it
palatalizes ("softens") it. Elsewhere, it means that the vowel is
preceded by the palatal glide.
The palatal voiceless stop <ч> actually only occurs palatalized
(unlike most other consonants), so to write <чя> rather than the
standard <чa> would be marking the palatalization twice. Presumably
that>s why they don>t use it in Russian. However with other
consonants, there can be a four-way contrast between <Ca> (consonant
C unpalatalised followed by /a /), <Cя> (C palatalized followed by
/a /), <Cъя> (C unpalatalized followed by /ja /), and <Cья> (C
palatalized followed by /ja /). Have I got this right Paul?
John
Translate into Russian
Whose boy is this?
Whose girl is this?
Whose business is it anyway?
чей, чья, чьё, innit?
[/quote]
Indeed.
[quote]I seem to be missing your point, could you elucidate?
[/quote]
I was hoping to illustrate the combinations of Ч , Ь , and Я
But perhaps I didn>t understand Ranjit>s question or your answer.
[quote]
J.
е ё и й[/quote] |
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