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Guest · Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: The Human Vagina

Nim wrote:
[quote]
Adaptation requires two things: mutation AND natural selection, which is
what I said. Mutation is a random change in the genetic structure of an
animal or organism. But while most mutations are harmful and don>t survive,
NOT ALL fit that category, as I said. A mutation can ALSO cause a useful
change. Natural selection is the next thing - useful mutations don>t go
anywhere or get inherited if selection is not made in FAVOR of those that
have it. If the mutations are useful, they survive and multiply due to that.
[/quote]
Sort of like whites and Asians mutating from the primitive DAFNz, huh?

Bob LeChevalier · Guest

makemyday@worldnet.att.net wrote:
[quote]Nim wrote:
Adaptation requires two things: mutation AND natural selection, which is
what I said. Mutation is a random change in the genetic structure of an
animal or organism. But while most mutations are harmful and don>t survive,
NOT ALL fit that category, as I said. A mutation can ALSO cause a useful
change. Natural selection is the next thing - useful mutations don>t go
anywhere or get inherited if selection is not made in FAVOR of those that
have it. If the mutations are useful, they survive and multiply due to that.

Sort of like whites and Asians mutating from the primitive DAFNz, huh?
[/quote]
Evolution is not progressive. Modern Africans are just as evolved
from the Africans of 140,000 years ago as modern Europeans are. They
just probably haven>t changed skin color as much (actually I>m not
sure that we know the skin color of any human from 100,000 years ago,
but most humans in the tropics are dark-skinned whether they are
African or otherwise).

lojbab
--
lojbab lojbab@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org

Nim · Guest

Thanks, see in.

"firstjois" <firstjoisyike@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aYidnWbD-aCgqEai4p2dnA@comcast.com...
[quote]
"Nim" <yuggya@ppc.com> wrote in message
news:tvzCb.265$mC1.225@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
: I suggest you take up that argument with the evolutionary biologists,
hands
: on, that wrote it. I>ll repeat it. It is not my view, though I do
agree
: with it and also consider other factors that cause things to
change/evolve.
: It is THE view, Mario
:
[snip]

Nicely done summary of THE view. Posting this for Mario is sort of like
casting pearls before swine but there are many others who read here that
appreciate the summary.
[/quote]
Yah, I kinda got that idea. I think the summary is good too. I>d need to
dumb it down more, give more adhom examples, to use it to explain THE VIEW
to laymen :)
[quote]
I was in NC a couple of months ago watching fields of crops which must all
have been planted from the same brand if not bag of seed making the each
crop look pretty uniform. However some bloomed earlier and some later than
others. Regardless of the other variables (more water/less water due to
drainage, etc.) there must still be some variation in the seeds themselves
that might have made a difference under adverse weather conditions.
[/quote]
AH, ok. Plants. :) You can have identical (clones) plant seeds, and where
you plant them, purely environmental facotrs in soil even, determines how
they look, what they do - it>s norm of reaction. They might even grow to
look like two completely separate species of plant (one a tiny shrub - the
other a huge tree with fruit) depending on where you plant them.
Genetically, they are *identical*. Phenotypically tho, they are miles apart
in appearance and even in what they do (produce fruit or not)Norm of
reaction is not a genetic thing, per se.
[quote]
Wouldn>t have made much difference in this industrial kind of farming but
to the plant type in the wild a few days difference is the setting or
ripening of the seeds might make a great deal of difference to the
survival
of that particular plant in a particular area.
[/quote]
Botanists know a whole lot about things that animal biologists do not know
much about because they can>t observe it or test for it with animals. You
can>t, ie, have wide crosses with animals (like across genera or family).
You can with plants.
[quote]
Jois.

[/quote]

Nim · Guest

Thank you. I apologize for the posting at all on the thread, but I have no
idea who is or is not a troll on here.

"firstjois" <firstjoisyike@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BNOdnQ4VAZzZpEaiRVn-uw@comcast.com...
[quote]
"firstjois" <firstjoisyike@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aYidnWbD-aCgqEai4p2dnA@comcast.com...
:
: "Nim" <yuggya@ppc.com> wrote in message
: news:tvzCb.265$mC1.225@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
: : I suggest you take up that argument with the evolutionary biologists,
: hands
: : on, that wrote it. I>ll repeat it. It is not my view, though I do
agree
: : with it and also consider other factors that cause things to
: change/evolve.
: : It is THE view, Mario
: :
: [snip]
:
: Nicely done summary of THE view. Posting this for Mario is sort of like
: casting pearls before swine but there are many others who read here that
: appreciate the summary.
:
: I was in NC a couple of months ago watching fields of crops which must
all
: have been planted from the same brand if not bag of seed making the each
: crop look pretty uniform. However some bloomed earlier and some later
than
: others. Regardless of the other variables (more water/less water due to
: drainage, etc.) there must still be some variation in the seeds
themselves
: that might have made a difference under adverse weather conditions.
:
: Wouldn>t have made much difference in this industrial kind of farming
but
: to the plant type in the wild a few days difference is the setting or
: ripening of the seeds might make a great deal of difference to the
survival
: of that particular plant in a particular area.
:
: Jois.

Well, damn. I hadn>t read this thread at all because I knew the original
poster was a troll, but picked up Nim>s good post and replied. My
apologies to all.

Jois

[/quote]

Nim · Guest

"Mario Petrinovich" <mario.petrinovic@zg.tel.hr> wrote in message
news:brehgb$1nk$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
[quote]Nim :
I suggest you take up that argument with the evolutionary biologists,
hands
on, that wrote it. I>ll repeat it. It is not my view, though I do
agree
with it and also consider other factors that cause things to
change/evolve. It is THE view, Mario

I know it is the view. I am not a copy machine, though. I don>t
agree with it, and I tried to show you why. -- Mario
[/quote]
I>m not a copy machine either. I believe I explained it well enough, even
giving the wonderful exacmple you can clearly see, inspired by my poor
stomach ache.

Yes, you tried to show me why, but what you are saying just doesn>t hold
about SOME mutations.

I>m of the opinion that things other than RANDOM mutations happen to change
things - such as retroviruses (what they rewrite is not all that random)
and, of course, PE.

There is a lot to evolutionary biology that is just not known to animal
biologists - and that would be the material known to BOTANISTS with regards
to inheritance.

There is also at least one thing that either no one admits to due to not
being able to understand it, or refuse to admit to it for some other reason,
and this is something I saw with my own eyes. It involved a pure bred
German Shepherd female - and her misadventures with a Scotch Terrier plus
mut we had for awhile. I can>t explain it with what>s known about plain old
nuclear DNA. Rather not go into it.
[quote]
[/quote]

Guest · Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: The Human Vagina

Bob LeChevalier wrote:
[quote]
makemyday@worldnet.att.net wrote:

Nim wrote:
Adaptation requires two things: mutation AND natural selection, which is
what I said. Mutation is a random change in the genetic structure of an
animal or organism. But while most mutations are harmful and don>t survive,
NOT ALL fit that category, as I said. A mutation can ALSO cause a useful
change. Natural selection is the next thing - useful mutations don>t go
anywhere or get inherited if selection is not made in FAVOR of those that
have it. If the mutations are useful, they survive and multiply due to that.

Sort of like whites and Asians mutating from the primitive DAFNz, huh?

Evolution is not progressive. Modern Africans are just as evolved
from the Africans of 140,000 years ago as modern Europeans are. They
just probably haven>t changed skin color as much (actually I>m not
sure that we know the skin color of any human from 100,000 years ago,
but most humans in the tropics are dark-skinned whether they are
African or otherwise).
[/quote]
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/355904.cms
************************* exzerpt **********************************
Decoded: Why man is not a chimpanzee -- SATURDAY, DECEMBER 13, 2003

NEW YORK : By comparing the human genome with that of chimpanzees,
people’s closest living relative, scientists have identified a partial
list of the genes that make people human.

They include genes for hearing and speech, genes that wire the
developing brain [...]

Humans and chimps shared a joint ancestor as recently as five million
years ago. Biologists have long supposed that if they could identify
the genes that changed in the evolutionary lineage leading from the
joint ancestor to people, they would understand the genetic basis of
how people differ from chimps and, hence, the essence of what makes
humans human.

Because the sequence of DNA units in the two genomes is 98.8 per cent
identical, it seemed that just a handful of genes might define the
essence of humanity. The project received a lift two years ago when
a large London family with BARELY INTELLIGIBLE SPEECH was found to
have mutations in a gene called FOXP2.

Chimpanzees also have a FOXP2 gene, but it is significantly different.
The human version shows signs of accelerated evolutionary change in
the last 100,000 years, suggesting that the gene acquired a new
function that helped confer the gift of speech. [...]
**********************************************************************

Obviously, DAFN speech is some throwback to an earlier evolutionary
plane, a departure from the progression to civilized humanity, like
DAFNhood never really made the evolutionary transition:

"Doan youz be axin mo' dumfuggin' [questionz], Bob..."

Tedd Jacobs · Guest

plonk him bob, it>s not worth it. he>s just a topic hijacking racist and we dont
need the cross-posted pollution he>s trying to create.

<makemyday@worldnet.att.net> wrote...
[quote]
"Doan youz be axin mo' dumfuggin' [questionz], Bob..."[/quote]

People's Commissar · Guest

OH, Hi Big Don.

What does this have to do with the subject on this thread?

<makemyday@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3FDC0EE6.441EAB9@worldnet.att.net...
[quote]
Bob LeChevalier wrote:

makemyday@worldnet.att.net wrote:

Nim wrote:
Adaptation requires two things: mutation AND natural selection,
which is
what I said. Mutation is a random change in the genetic structure of
an
animal or organism. But while most mutations are harmful and don>t
survive,
NOT ALL fit that category, as I said. A mutation can ALSO cause a
useful
change. Natural selection is the next thing - useful mutations don>t
go
anywhere or get inherited if selection is not made in FAVOR of those
that
have it. If the mutations are useful, they survive and multiply due
to that.[/quote]

Hmm, I thought all mutations were deadly. What about Lynn Margulis -
symbiogenesis?
[quote]
Sort of like whites and Asians mutating from the primitive DAFNz, huh?
[/quote]
LMAO.

[quote]
Evolution is not progressive. Modern Africans are just as evolved
from the Africans of 140,000 years ago as modern Europeans are.
[/quote]
That>s true, each are X years as evolved as each other - eg: chimps and
humans. Both split from one ancestor. But - selection for or against this
or that takes people and cultures apart from each other. Even societies
select that way.

They
[quote]just probably haven>t changed skin color as much (actually I>m not
sure that we know the skin color of any human from 100,000 years ago,
[/quote]
See this excellent website: http://interracialvoice.com/sweet7.html

Do you think that "race" has to do with skin color?

[quote]but most humans in the tropics are dark-skinned whether they are
African or otherwise).
[/quote]
SE Asians are not black skinned. S. Australians (cold climate) are.
[quote]
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/355904.cms
************************* exzerpt **********************************
Decoded: Why man is not a chimpanzee -- SATURDAY, DECEMBER 13, 2003

NEW YORK : By comparing the human genome with that of chimpanzees,
people>s closest living relative, scientists have identified a partial
list of the genes that make people human.

They include genes for hearing and speech, genes that wire the
developing brain [...]

Humans and chimps shared a joint ancestor as recently as five million
years ago. Biologists have long supposed that if they could identify
the genes that changed in the evolutionary lineage leading from the
joint ancestor to people, they would understand the genetic basis of
how people differ from chimps and, hence, the essence of what makes
humans human.

Because the sequence of DNA units in the two genomes is 98.8 per cent
identical, it seemed that just a handful of genes might define the
essence of humanity. The project received a lift two years ago when
a large London family with BARELY INTELLIGIBLE SPEECH was found to
have mutations in a gene called FOXP2.

Chimpanzees also have a FOXP2 gene, but it is significantly different.
The human version shows signs of accelerated evolutionary change in
the last 100,000 years, suggesting that the gene acquired a new
function that helped confer the gift of speech. [...]
**********************************************************************

Obviously, DAFN speech is some throwback to an earlier evolutionary
plane, a departure from the progression to civilized humanity, like
DAFNhood never really made the evolutionary transition:
[/quote]
LMAO - Hi Big Don. O my. .... don>t care what anyone says - you are FUNNY!
[quote]
"Doan youz be axin mo' dumfuggin' [questionz], Bob..."[/quote]

People's Commissar · Guest

See in.

"Nim" <yuggya@ppc.com> wrote in message
news:kBRCb.2$6E.1@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
[quote]"Mario Petrinovich" <mario.petrinovic@zg.tel.hr> wrote in message
news:brehgb$1nk$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
Nim :
I suggest you take up that argument with the evolutionary biologists,
hands
on, that wrote it. I>ll repeat it. It is not my view, though I do
agree
with it and also consider other factors that cause things to
change/evolve. It is THE view, Mario

I know it is the view. I am not a copy machine, though. I don>t
agree with it, and I tried to show you why. -- Mario

I>m not a copy machine either. I believe I explained it well enough, even
giving the wonderful exacmple you can clearly see, inspired by my poor
stomach ache.

Yes, you tried to show me why, but what you are saying just doesn>t hold
about SOME mutations.

I>m of the opinion that things other than RANDOM mutations happen to
change
things - such as retroviruses (what they rewrite is not all that random)
and, of course, PE.
[/quote]
LYNN MARGULIS!! Her theories show that there a lot of COMBINING going on.
[quote]
There is a lot to evolutionary biology that is just not known to animal
biologists - and that would be the material known to BOTANISTS with
regards
to inheritance.

There is also at least one thing that either no one admits to due to not
being able to understand it, or refuse to admit to it for some other
reason,
and this is something I saw with my own eyes. It involved a pure bred
German Shepherd female - and her misadventures with a Scotch Terrier plus
mut we had for awhile. I can>t explain it with what>s known about plain
old
nuclear DNA. Rather not go into it.

[/quote]


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