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D. Spencer Hines · Guest

Hmmmmmm...

And how does Tony Blair see himself?
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
-----------------------------------------------

Bush wants history to see him as a liberator of millions

Nov 28 02:53 PM US/Eastern
AFP

George W. Bush hopes history will see him as a president who liberated
millions of Iraqis and Afghans, who worked towards peace and who never
sold his soul for political ends.

"I>d like to be a president (known) as somebody who liberated 50 million
people and helped achieve peace," Bush said in excerpts of a recent
interview released by the White House Friday.

"I would like to be a person remembered as a person who, first and
foremost, did not sell his soul in order to accommodate the political
process. I came to Washington with a set of values, and I>m leaving with
the same set of values."

He also said he wanted to be seen as a president who helped individuals,
"that rallied people to serve their neighbor; that led an effort to help
relieve HIV/AIDS and malaria on places like the continent of Africa; that
helped elderly people get prescription drugs and Medicare as a part of the
basic package."

Bush added that every day during his eight-year presidency he had
consulted the Bible and drawn comfort from his faith.

"I would advise politicians, however, to be careful about faith in the
public arena," the US leader said in the interview with his sister Doro
Bush Koch recorded as part of an oral history program known as Storycorps.

As his second term in office draws to an end, Bush joked he would miss
some of the trappings that come with the presidency such as trips on Air
Force One, never being stuck in a traffic jam, and the president>s
residence at Camp David.

But he said he was glad to be stepping back into the shadows.

"Frankly, I>m not going to miss the limelight all that much. It>s been a
fabulous experience to be the president ... But it will be nice to see the
Klieg lights shift somewhere else."

The interview, which Bush recorded with First Lady Laura Bush, will be
stored in the library of Congress and a museum devoted to the Bush
presidency.
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor

hcobb · Guest

On Nov 29, 10:00 am, "Raymond O>Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
[quote]the trouble is bush changed one oppressor for another.
saddam was a rat but the coming islamists are no better.
[/quote]
Iran is simply going to use Iraq as a springboard to "liberate" the
Shia of the Gulf States.

So Bush>s greatest legacy will be in stopping America and the West
from burning any more Gulf oil.

Unlike Gore, he>s actually doing something about global warming.

-HJC

Bryn · Guest

On Nov 29, 5:40 pm, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote:
[quote]Hmmmmmm...

And how does Tony Blair see himself?
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
-----------------------------------------------

Bush wants history to see him as a liberator of millions

Nov 28 02:53 PM US/Eastern
AFP

George W. Bush hopes history will see him as a president who liberated
millions of Iraqis and Afghans, who worked towards peace and who never
sold his soul for political ends.

"I>d like to be a president (known) as somebody who liberated 50 million
people and helped achieve peace," Bush said in excerpts of a recent
interview released by the White House Friday.

"I would like to be a person remembered as a person who, first and
foremost, did not sell his soul in order to accommodate the political
process. I came to Washington with a set of values, and I>m leaving with
the same set of values."

He also said he wanted to be seen as a president who helped individuals,
"that rallied people to serve their neighbor; that led an effort to help
relieve HIV/AIDS and malaria on places like the continent of Africa; that
helped elderly people get prescription drugs and Medicare as a part of the
basic package."

Bush added that every day during his eight-year presidency he had
consulted the Bible and drawn comfort from his faith.

"I would advise politicians, however, to be careful about faith in the
public arena," the US leader said in the interview with his sister Doro
Bush Koch recorded as part of an oral history program known as Storycorps..

As his second term in office draws to an end, Bush joked he would miss
some of the trappings that come with the presidency such as trips on Air
Force One, never being stuck in a traffic jam, and the president>s
residence at Camp David.

But he said he was glad to be stepping back into the shadows.

"Frankly, I>m not going to miss the limelight all that much. It>s been a
fabulous experience to be the president ... But it will be nice to see the
Klieg lights shift somewhere else."

The interview, which Bush recorded with First Lady Laura Bush, will be
stored in the library of Congress and a museum devoted to the Bush
presidency.
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
[/quote]
Word is he has had all the mirrors removed from his various homes...

Bryn

Raymond O'Hara · Guest

"D. Spencer Hines" <panther@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:Y8fYk.379$9k5.355@eagle.america.net...
[quote]Hmmmmmm...

And how does Tony Blair see himself?
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
-----------------------------------------------

Bush wants history to see him as a liberator of millions
[/quote]
the trouble is bush changed one oppressor for another.
saddam was a rat but the coming islamists are no better.

it>s rather like poland in and after WWII.

Guest · Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:26 am Post subject: Re: The Bush & Blair Legacy

On Nov 29, 12:40 pm, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote:

[quote]
Bush wants history to see him as a liberator of millions
[/quote]
And I want a massage from Jessica Alba.

Jeffrey Turner · Guest

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

[quote]Hmmmmmm...

And how does Tony Blair see himself?
[/quote]
Probably not as delusionally as Bush.

--Jeff

--
I learned that ... the most grinding
poverty is a trifling evil compared
with the inequality of classes.
--William Morris

Julian Richards · Guest

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:48:20 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
<jturner@localnet.com> wrote:

[quote]D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Hmmmmmm...

And how does Tony Blair see himself?

Probably not as delusionally as Bush.

[/quote]
I would think that Blair would see Iraq as I would have thought that
Bush would have seen it. Iraq was only a very small part of the Blair
premiership. Has it been that Iraq has really overshadowed Bush so
much that there is nothing else?

Julian Richards

David E. Powell · Guest

The irony is the Dems supported the Iraq thing all along. yeah they
said they would end it in 2006 but they won the election and then
lied, let the surge happen. Then they said Obama would get all the
troops home ASAP in the campaign but are talking about staying to at
least 2011, and if they stay in support and training roles, plus air
defense, that is probably going to go more than that.

The Dems talked all kinds of stuff about Iraq at the worst of times
there, dispiriting people, but they never actually voted or carried
through on what they were doing. Fortunately that allowed us to win,
but even with the dems roasting him in the press for doing what they
approved of anyway by their actions, Bush never wavered.

Millions are free in Iraq and Afghanistan because GWB stood firm and
because of the soldiers of various nations and the USA, and he has
right to be proud, and I think history will see him much better than
his worst critics would like it to. Especially because despite all
their talk and hate against him the Dems did the exact same thing Bsuh
did when the rubber met the road, they just kept talking the other
way. Bush was the honest one about it.

Raymond O'Hara · Guest

"Julian Richards" <...> wrote in message
news:cun4j45c0mhrdiog6lactvp82vaopnq19h@4ax.com...
[quote]On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:48:20 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
jturner@localnet.com> wrote:

D. Spencer Hines wrote:

Hmmmmmm...

And how does Tony Blair see himself?

Probably not as delusionally as Bush.

I would think that Blair would see Iraq as I would have thought that
Bush would have seen it. Iraq was only a very small part of the Blair
premiership. Has it been that Iraq has really overshadowed Bush so
much that there is nothing else?

[/quote]

well bush also has the ruined economy, 9/11, and the trashed constituition
and wholesale corruption to look back on too.
iraq will just be part of his legasy
[quote]
Julian Richards[/quote]

hcobb · Guest

Bush>s legacy is the Bush Crash. That and the collapse of the
American friendly Gulf states will be about all history remembers him
for. (Except for a lot of what-ifs about Florida in 2000.)

-HJC

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081201/ap_on_bi_ge/meltdown_ignored_warnings
AP IMPACT: US diluted loan rules before crash

Guest · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: The Bush & Blair Legacy

What Mr. Hines and the hawks don>t understand is that while it was a
very good idea to remove Saddam>s crime family from the rule of tens
of millions of people, our actions STILL have to be reckoned not in
the isolation of the benefits, but in the context of all important
considerations.

For example. WHY Iraq?

If the purpose is humanitarian, why not liberating the 23 million
people of North Korea, which according to Amnesty International and
Human Rights Watch, has the worst human rights records of any
nation?

If the purpose is economic, SAY SO, don>t make up silly reasons.

If the purpose is international justice, think again. You cannot
punish a leader for using weapons on the Iranians and the Kurds when
WE, and the U.K. and Germany supplied the weapons and encouraged him
to use them.

But most important is the cost-benefit analysis. Not all desirable
actions are wise. Desirable as toppling Saddam might have been, there
are limits to what the country should invest on it. Bush has VASTLY
exceeded those limits in lives and treasure, and our very moral
principles.

Wisdom is often clear when you look at actions a generation later.
But claiming the benefit of hindsight in the present is a foolish
thing to do, and that is exactly what the false prophets of the Bush
legacy keep doing. They are peddling their hopes as history to fend
off the critics who don>t see the imaginary future profits they
see.

When justifying the Iraq War, Mr. Hines and others like him see the
benefits but not the price.

It>s a short-sighted, static, partisan analysis and worse, incorrect.

The Iraq balance sheet has entries in both the credit and the debit
side. Hawks only see the credit side.

The Iraq War is unpopular because more and more people look and care
about the BOTTOM LINE.

DEEPLY IN THE RED.

That fact is what will determine the legacy of Bush and Blair.

D. Spencer Hines · Guest

"Human nature itself is evermore an advocate for liberty. There is also
in human nature a resentment of injury, and indignation against wrong. A
love of truth and a veneration of virtue. These amiable passions, are the
"latent spark"..."

"If the people are capable of understanding, seeing and feeling the
differences between true and false, right and wrong, virtue and vice, to
what better principle can the friends of mankind apply than to the sense
of this difference?"

--John Adams, the Novanglus, 1775
-----------------------------------------------------

Both George Bush and Tony Blair obviously believe this.
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor

Guest · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: The Bush & Blair Legacy

On Dec 1, 12:01 pm, James Hogg <Jas.Hogg...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]"When we take a survey of mankind, we cannot help cursing the
wretch, who, to the unavoidable misfortunes of nature, shall
wilfully add the calamities of war. One would think there were
evils enough in the world without studying to increase them, and
that life is sufficiently short without shaking the sand that
measures it. The histories of Alexander, and Charles of Sweden,
are the histories of human devils; a good man cannot think of
their actions without abhorrence, nor of their deaths without
rejoicing. To see the bounties of heaven destroyed, the beautiful
face of nature laid waste, and the choicest works of creation and
art tumbled into ruin, would fetch a curse from the soul of piety
itself."

Thomas Paine, The Writings of Thomas Paine, Vol. I (1774-1779),
V: TO GEN. SIR WILLIAM HOWE 1, paragraph 703.

Both George Bush and Tony Blair obviously believe this?

James
[/quote]
Good quote.

Renia · Guest

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
[quote]"Human nature itself is evermore an advocate for liberty. There is also
in human nature a resentment of injury, and indignation against wrong. A
love of truth and a veneration of virtue. These amiable passions, are the
"latent spark"..."

"If the people are capable of understanding, seeing and feeling the
differences between true and false, right and wrong, virtue and vice, to
what better principle can the friends of mankind apply than to the sense
of this difference?"

--John Adams, the Novanglus, 1775
-----------------------------------------------------

Both George Bush and Tony Blair obviously believe this.
[/quote]
I don>t know about Bush, but Tony Blair certainly doesn>t, and Gordon
Brown even less.

Why no comments about the latest Constitutional debacle in the UK?

James Hogg · Guest

"When we take a survey of mankind, we cannot help cursing the
wretch, who, to the unavoidable misfortunes of nature, shall
wilfully add the calamities of war. One would think there were
evils enough in the world without studying to increase them, and
that life is sufficiently short without shaking the sand that
measures it. The histories of Alexander, and Charles of Sweden,
are the histories of human devils; a good man cannot think of
their actions without abhorrence, nor of their deaths without
rejoicing. To see the bounties of heaven destroyed, the beautiful
face of nature laid waste, and the choicest works of creation and
art tumbled into ruin, would fetch a curse from the soul of piety
itself."

Thomas Paine, The Writings of Thomas Paine, Vol. I (1774-1779),
V: TO GEN. SIR WILLIAM HOWE 1, paragraph 703.

Both George Bush and Tony Blair obviously believe this?

James


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