| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
J. Taylor
Guest
|
 Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Where did the extra mass come from? |
 |
|
On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 19:12:05 -0700 (PDT), Stuart <bigdakine@aol.com>
wrote:
[quote]On Oct 23, 6:46 pm, J. Taylor <nchiw...@embarqmail.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:05:28 -0700 (PDT), Stuart <bigdak...@aol.com
wrote:
snip
But you are right, there is no known physics to explain it, but
considering we have gone from considering we know most of the physics
to less than 4% with dark matter/energy, it does not make for much of
an argument to just claim it is impossible from known physics,
Yes we can. The argument from ignorance is not a scientific argument.
[/quote]
I agree, that is why you should not make them
To make an argument of impossible you have to know what is possible
You don>t
[quote]
Furthermore, there are things we do know about dark matter and energy.
The main thing
we know is that they are weakly interacting with ordinary matter aside
from gravity, and can
be studied through their gravitational effects. Matter and energy that
are weakly interacting
are not logical candidates for spontaneously generating ordinary
matter.
[/quote]
We cannot possible know dark matter/energy is weakly interactive. We
do not even know if it exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter
"dark matter is hypothetical matter that does not interact with the
electromagnetic force, but whose presence can be inferred from
gravitational effects on visible matter."
Did you catch the word "hypothetical"
What we know are galaxies are not behaving as expected from
observations
Adding "matter that does not interact with the electromagnetic force"
gives mass to allow observation to fit with what we think we know, but
does not tell us a thing about what is really going on, thus the
reason "hypothetical"
[quote]
Perhaps you should avoid subjects above your pay grade?
[/quote]
Perhaps you should read something other than religious tracts.
JT |
|
| |
|
 Back to top |
Florian
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Where did the extra mass come from? |
|
|
Stuart <bigdakine@aol.com> wrote:
[quote]On Oct 16, 12:34 pm, auxotectonics_deletethis@nachon_andthis.net
(Florian) wrote:
Stuart <bigdak...@aol.com> wrote:
As the growth is uneven, it moves up and laterally, relatively to the
ever changing absolute center of the Earth.
Indeed, it moves this way and that, due to who knows what and composed
of you guessed it... anything...
Stuart, the surface of a sphere that grows unevenly move radially and
laterally away from the initial center of the sphere. That is basic
geometry.
Oh In understand completely.
Sometimes the Earth bulges here, and sometimes it bulges there.
[/quote]
Yep, this is actually what is observed. The fact that ridges get extinct
while others develop, or the fact that spreading rates vary with time,
prove it.
--
Florian
"Toute vérité franchit trois étapes. D>abord elle est ridiculisée.
Ensuite, elle subit une forte opposition. Puis, elle est considérée
comme ayant toujours été une évidence." - Arthur Schopenhauer |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Florian
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Where did the extra mass come from? |
|
|
Stuart <bigdakine@aol.com> wrote:
[quote]Um no, you see real upwellings from the deep mantle occur in the
form of plumes with nice big plume heads,
Oh, so you>re also a plume supporter:
http://www.mantleplumes.org/
LOL. Translation "I have no rebuttal".
[/quote]
No need, for translation. You are a plume supporter. Period.
[quote]Dear, you confuse upduction and hotspot.
Um no. You invent terms which you imagine have some physical process
behind them.
[/quote]
I invent nothing. These terms are used by people working on these issue
for a very long time.
Your choice to stay ignorant.
So, Stuart, you who is so clever and know everything, what is the
meaning of upduction, eduction and overthrusting?
[quote]
And what you call "wedge" is now what geologists refer to as the
That should be "not" not "now".
[/quote]
said Stuart Weinstein "If you are trying to make yourself not
understood, you are doing a fine job."
Indeed.
Besides you>re wrong. This is the same wedge.
[quote]No confusion. Your processes don>t exist.
[/quote]
and more denial to finish... clap clap.
I must say I hesitate about your status now.
True Zealot or simple charlatan?
--
Florian
"Toute vérité franchit trois étapes. D>abord elle est ridiculisée.
Ensuite, elle subit une forte opposition. Puis, elle est considérée
comme ayant toujours été une évidence." - Arthur Schopenhauer |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Florian
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Where did the extra mass come from? |
|
|
J. Taylor <nchiwana@embarqmail.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
[quote]Did you catch the word "hypothetical"
[/quote]
I doubt he did. He can>t make the difference between an hypothesis, an
interpretation and a fact.
--
Florian
"Toute vérité franchit trois étapes. D>abord elle est ridiculisée.
Ensuite, elle subit une forte opposition. Puis, elle est considérée
comme ayant toujours été une évidence." - Arthur Schopenhauer |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
jonathan
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Delayed reaction to the Fed rate cut? Why? |
|
|
"raylopez99" <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:91ec3026-75fd-4e94-b261-96abe3ef19cf@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 29, 1:24 pm, Doobie Keebler <kooper...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Hell, thats the best explanation I can concoct, anyway. . .
-=d00b
Too funny Doobie. BusinessWeek online had a short article where 10
market experts were asked to explain the recent volatility and could
not. One said: "ask 10 of us and get 11 opinions".
So your explanation is as good as any other I guess.
[/quote]
There>s a simple explanation for the volatility.
Imagine this, you>re slowly heating water to boiling.
At a very narrow temperature point, the water
suddenly changes state and boils into a vapor.
But what about that brief time when it>s making the transition?
If you hold the temp at that exact transition point, where it>s
neither water or vapor, but transitioning, it>s constantly
changing from one state and back to the other.
Chaotically jumping back and forth. This narrow
point defines the highest possible level of volatility.
As a change in state is the largest change in behavior
possible.
And since the system is chaotically changing states
the type of mathematics needed at that point to
model the system is also chaotically jumping
between particle-type and quantum-type methods.
So the ability to scientifically unravel the behavior
is also at the lowest possible. Uncertainty is then
the highest possible at this point.
Many interesting properties show up at this
brief transition state. For one, even the slightest
change in temp and it>s behavior will swing wildly
from one state to the other. For instance, from
chaotic to simple in a flash. Or bird flocking like
behavior, where everyone is highly sensitive to
the slightest signal for change and acts together.
All buying...or..all selling.
Maximum volatility, unpredictability and sensitivity
all at the same time.
This is the one point where no one /should/ be able
to precisely determine the cause, magnitude or future
of anything at all. The one and only point where
'modern science' should completely fail to be useful.
The mathematical term is called "The Edge of Chaos"
HOWEVER....as one continues to study the dynamics
of far from equilibrium systems, something else happens
that allows us to see....in advance....whether that system
on 'edge' of breaking is going to break completely
(become chaotic), or gently return to it>s former equilibrium.
It>s in how the system approaches the breaking point.
As the system is /approaching/ the 'edge', one of only two possible
pre-images appear in the behavior. Which one appears
defines very reliably which near term future will occur beyond the
transition point.
The beauty of this delicate dynamic state, is that when
/and only when/ at the very highest level of uncertainty
and volatility, predicting the near term future also becomes
the easiest and most reliable possible.
This is the magical point where volatility and predictability
converge to simultaneous maximums.
....Valhalla! And....
where the system behavior becomes detached from
the details of the hidden inner mechanisms.
.....The Holy Grail!
As at this point not only is the price changing the most and
in the shortest period of time, but doing so in the most
predictable manner possible...and...without having
to know hardly anything about those countless messy
internal details of the system at hand.
This is the point at which our scientific worlds are turned
topsy-turvy. The one point which should confound even
the best, is in fact the one point at which a child could
succeed. Let your kid use a dart board right now to pick
a stock, and see if he beats you three months from now.
I bet you the kid wins and big.
And as far as which pre image was displayed in the
time leading up the current 'edge state' or panic sell?
It was the good one, I>m pleased to say
..
A bounce back towards the previous, but with all kinds
of new self correcting mechanisms that should increase
the health and stability of the system.
As the 'Edge of Chaos' is the dynamic state responsible
for starting, for providing the initial impetus, of the process
of evolution. And the evolution of all things either physical
or living.
That>s right, the Dow and Nasdaq, and literally half the stock charts
that exist, currently display the universal behavior responsible
for Creation itself.
Our economic system is in the middle of a huge evolutionary step.
It is self organizing. The power of Nature is taking over
and forcing the system to evolve.
And we get to witness this in living color!
We are truly blessed.
Imho.
s
RL |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Delayed reaction to the Fed rate cut? Why? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:48:22 -0400, "jonathan"
<Home@write.instead.net> wrote:
[quote]There>s a simple explanation for the volatility.
[/quote]
WHAT in the f ck does this have to do with geology? |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
don findlay
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Delayed reaction to the Fed rate cut? Why? |
|
|
N...@valid.invalid wrote:
[quote]On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:48:22 -0400, "jonathan"
Home@write.instead.net> wrote:
There>s a simple explanation for the volatility.
WHAT in the f ck does this have to do with geology?
[/quote]
Plate Tectonics is a classic example of bird-flocking on the strength
of a rumour emerging from an unstable system. That>s why it always
was only a matter of time till it faced its demise. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
jonathan
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Delayed reaction to the Fed rate cut? Why? |
|
|
<Not@Valid.invalid> wrote in message
news:9b3ig4951rb7jsc5kpgq2u25u7qrhdoosq@4ax.com...
[quote]On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:48:22 -0400, "jonathan"
Home@write.instead.net> wrote:
There>s a simple explanation for the volatility.
WHAT in the f ck does this have to do with geology?
[/quote]
Thanks for asking.
Look up 'power law'. .
"A wide variety of observed probability distributions appear, at least
approximately, to have tails asymptotically following power-law forms,
which considers the frequency of extremely rare events like
stock market crashes and large natural disasters.
A few notable examples of power laws are the Gutenberg-Richter law
for earthquake sizes,"
This is on topic everywhere
"Scientific interest in power law relations also derives from the ease
with which certain general classes of mechanisms can generate them,
so that the observation of a power-law relation in data often points
to specific kinds of mechanisms that might underly the natural phenomenon
in question, and can indicate a deep connection with other, seemingly
unrelated systems (see the reference by Simon and the subsection
on universality below)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_law
[quote]
[/quote] |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
d.
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Delayed reaction to the Fed rate cut? Why? |
|
|
"jonathan" <Home@write.instead.net> wrote:
[quote]
"raylopez99" <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:91ec3026-75fd-4e94-b261-96abe3ef19cf@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 29, 1:24 pm, Doobie Keebler <kooper...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hell, thats the best explanation I can concoct, anyway. . .
-=d00b
Too funny Doobie. BusinessWeek online had a short article where 10
market experts were asked to explain the recent volatility and could
not. One said: "ask 10 of us and get 11 opinions".
So your explanation is as good as any other I guess.
There>s a simple explanation for the volatility.
Imagine this, you>re slowly heating water to boiling.
At a very narrow temperature point, the water
suddenly changes state and boils into a vapor.
But what about that brief time when it>s making the transition?
If you hold the temp at that exact transition point, where it>s
neither water or vapor, but transitioning, it>s constantly
changing from one state and back to the other.
Chaotically jumping back and forth. This narrow
point defines the highest possible level of volatility.
As a change in state is the largest change in behavior
possible.
And since the system is chaotically changing states
the type of mathematics needed at that point to
model the system is also chaotically jumping
between particle-type and quantum-type methods.
So the ability to scientifically unravel the behavior
is also at the lowest possible. Uncertainty is then
the highest possible at this point.
Many interesting properties show up at this
brief transition state. For one, even the slightest
change in temp and it>s behavior will swing wildly
from one state to the other. For instance, from
chaotic to simple in a flash. Or bird flocking like
behavior, where everyone is highly sensitive to
the slightest signal for change and acts together.
All buying...or..all selling.
Maximum volatility, unpredictability and sensitivity
all at the same time.
This is the one point where no one /should/ be able
to precisely determine the cause, magnitude or future
of anything at all. The one and only point where
'modern science' should completely fail to be useful.
The mathematical term is called "The Edge of Chaos"
HOWEVER....as one continues to study the dynamics
of far from equilibrium systems, something else happens
that allows us to see....in advance....whether that system
on 'edge' of breaking is going to break completely
(become chaotic), or gently return to it>s former equilibrium.
It>s in how the system approaches the breaking point.
As the system is /approaching/ the 'edge', one of only two possible
pre-images appear in the behavior. Which one appears
defines very reliably which near term future will occur beyond the
transition point.
The beauty of this delicate dynamic state, is that when
/and only when/ at the very highest level of uncertainty
and volatility, predicting the near term future also becomes
the easiest and most reliable possible.
This is the magical point where volatility and predictability
converge to simultaneous maximums.
....Valhalla! And....
where the system behavior becomes detached from
the details of the hidden inner mechanisms.
.....The Holy Grail!
As at this point not only is the price changing the most and
in the shortest period of time, but doing so in the most
predictable manner possible...and...without having
to know hardly anything about those countless messy
internal details of the system at hand.
This is the point at which our scientific worlds are turned
topsy-turvy. The one point which should confound even
the best, is in fact the one point at which a child could
succeed. Let your kid use a dart board right now to pick
a stock, and see if he beats you three months from now.
I bet you the kid wins and big.
And as far as which pre image was displayed in the
time leading up the current 'edge state' or panic sell?
It was the good one, I>m pleased to say
.
A bounce back towards the previous, but with all kinds
of new self correcting mechanisms that should increase
the health and stability of the system.
As the 'Edge of Chaos' is the dynamic state responsible
for starting, for providing the initial impetus, of the process
of evolution. And the evolution of all things either physical
or living.
That>s right, the Dow and Nasdaq, and literally half the stock charts
that exist, currently display the universal behavior responsible
for Creation itself.
Our economic system is in the middle of a huge evolutionary step.
It is self organizing. The power of Nature is taking over
and forcing the system to evolve.
And we get to witness this in living color!
We are truly blessed.
Imho.
[/quote]
I think the big boys were just waiting for their neural nets to reach
a reasonable conclusion. All the recent volitility probably fried
their ai brains. lol.
Delayed reactions have been a fairly common event for years.
I>ve noticed it many times. It doesn>t bother me much, but
conspiracy aficianados will see one under every grain of sand. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
jonathan
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Delayed reaction to the Fed rate cut? Why? |
|
|
"d." <d@noospam.com> wrote in message news:49091254.12294866@216.168.3.70...
[quote]"jonathan" <Home@write.instead.net> wrote:
"raylopez99" <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:91ec3026-75fd-4e94-b261-96abe3ef19cf@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 29, 1:24 pm, Doobie Keebler <kooper...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hell, thats the best explanation I can concoct, anyway. . .
-=d00b
Too funny Doobie. BusinessWeek online had a short article where 10
market experts were asked to explain the recent volatility and could
not. One said: "ask 10 of us and get 11 opinions".
So your explanation is as good as any other I guess.
[/quote]
[quote]
I think the big boys were just waiting for their neural nets to reach
a reasonable conclusion. All the recent volitility probably fried
their ai brains. lol.
Delayed reactions have been a fairly common event for years.
I>ve noticed it many times. It doesn>t bother me much, but
conspiracy aficianados will see one under every grain of sand.
[/quote]
I think it means the large players aren>t sure how the market
will react. Once someone finally steps up and starts a trend, then
everyone suddenly follows. Bird flocking at it>s best~ |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
raylopez99
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Delayed reaction to the Fed rate cut? Why? |
|
|
On Oct 29, 5:48 pm, "jonathan" <H...@write.instead.net> wrote:
That was pretty cool. But how do you explain superheated water?
And are you saying the stock market is a buy (child with dartboard).
RL |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
raylopez99
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Delayed reaction to the Fed rate cut? Why? |
|
|
On Oct 29, 6:50 pm, "jonathan" <H...@write.instead.net> wrote:
[quote]N...@Valid.invalid> wrote in message
news:9b3ig4951rb7jsc5kpgq2u25u7qrhdoosq@4ax.com...
On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:48:22 -0400, "jonathan"
H...@write.instead.net> wrote:
There>s a simple explanation for the volatility.
WHAT in the f ck does this have to do with geology?
Thanks for asking.
Look up 'power law'. .
[/quote]
Aren>t Fibonacci sequences also a form of power law? (or perhaps
factorials which are a form of power law I suppose)?
So Elliott Wave theory and therefore Fibonacci sequences are pertinent
here.
Make sense I suppose.
RL |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
jonathan
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: Re: Delayed reaction to the Fed rate cut? Why? |
|
|
"raylopez99" <raylopez99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e1d8effe-3815-4caf-8723-36e16b9a4a97@u75g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 29, 5:48 pm, "jonathan" <H...@write.instead.net> wrote:
[quote]That was pretty cool. But how do you explain superheated water?
And are you saying the stock market is a buy (child with dartboard).
[/quote]
Absolutely. A panic finds a reliable bottom, which leaves only
sideways and up left. That>s the way I look at it. At least for
a couple of months while the panic remains the big news.
I>m a short termer though, I just play for the first bounce
after the panic sell in individual stocks.
A dartboard should do better right now than deliberate picks, but
the bounce is already in progress, time is running short for bargain
hunting.
RL |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
oriel36
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Delayed reaction to the Fed rate cut? Why? |
|
|
On Oct 31, 12:18 am, "jonathan" <H...@write.instead.net> wrote:
[quote]"raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e1d8effe-3815-4caf-8723-36e16b9a4a97@u75g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 29, 5:48 pm, "jonathan" <H...@write.instead.net> wrote:
That was pretty cool. But how do you explain superheated water?
And are you saying the stock market is a buy (child with dartboard).
Absolutely. A panic finds a reliable bottom, which leaves only
sideways and up left. That>s the way I look at it. At least for
a couple of months while the panic remains the big news.
I>m a short termer though, I just play for the first bounce
after the panic sell in individual stocks.
A dartboard should do better right now than deliberate picks, but
the bounce is already in progress, time is running short for bargain
hunting.
RL
[/quote]
Your thinking is typical of the vacuousness of this era,unable to look
back or forward to lessons learned and all too willing to conjure up
whatever story is needed to reach whatever conclusion is required,what
many here believe is something new is really just something that
occurs when a society gets jaded,in this case Western consumerist
agenda.
I can argue that the roots of this vacuousness began with the rise of
empricism or the 'scientific method' as it is now known,a festering
disease that introduced speculation into the celestial arena and
basically make up whatever story it wants to create whatever
conclusion is required.They even believe if you move quickly
enough,the whole Universe will change for you (relativity) but
again,that is the symptoms of the disease rather than the disease
itself when originates in the late 17th century.
Wise men once existed instead of the dishonest bunch and their pseudo-
authoritative statements.For those who wish to hear something really
substantive ,try Lincoln -
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and
causes me to tremble for the safety of my country; corporations have
been enthroned, an era of corruption in High Places will follow, and
the Money Power of the Country will endeavor to prolong its reign by
working upon the prejudices of the People, until the wealth is
aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed." Abraham
Lincoln
Don>t comment,those words don>t really suit this audience here,at
least in the geology forum. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
raylopez99
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:55 am Post subject: Re: Delayed reaction to the Fed rate cut? Why? |
|
|
You sound a bit too PollyAnna jonathan.
jonathan wrote:
[quote]"oriel36" <kelleher.gerald@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4e3a83ed-e812-4f15-b147-b74cdcec1dbf@z18g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Jaded? It>s a bubble bursting, that>s all. And it should be noted that
most bubbles burst as a result of too much of a good thing.
Growing too fast in this case. Rach time the system learns from
it>s mistakes to some extent.
[/quote]
Bubble bursting that nobody saw coming? And if they saw it coming,
why did the 'protection' via derivative contracts fail? Why did AIG
fail (which sophisticated parties like Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs
relied upon).
[quote]
The internet is doing just the opposite, bringing more and more
people into the market, into wealth and in charge.
[/quote]
This is just a function of population growth. Arguably the telephone
did more.
[quote]What the
recent crash shows is that the people are taking over. As
the chart dynamics clearly show the little guys panicked first.
With the big guys being forced out last.
[/quote]
Seems like the opposite to me: first was Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG
(big guys) then the little guys still have not capitulated IMO.
[quote]There are only two ways a system approaches the brink of disaster.
And it depends on which camp is panicking and causing the
drop in price. When the big guys or insiders panic sell first, then
the system will almost always go belly up. When the little guys
panic first, the system will almost always bounce back some
half the total loss and pretty quickly.
[/quote]
OK if you say so (cite please?)
[quote]
I can be confident in my predictions since I know these two patterns
very well, they are established and have clear tendencies.
Nothing sinister or unnatural about it. In fact it shows the little
guys have at last acquired a roughly equal weight with the
institutions and such.
It is a new day. One with a very happy ending.
[/quote]
What drug are you on? We want some too.
RL |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
