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Timberwoof · Guest

In article <g4c3bp$u3g$1@aioe.org>, kT <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:

[quote]Timberwoof wrote:
In article <Vgfak.17621$Xe.1742@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
"jonathan" <Home@write.instead.net> wrote:

Doesn>t anyone here have an abstract bone in their body?
Doesn>t anyone think science should be more about
what...could...be?

So you>re upset because scientists don>t do what you want them to do.

Sorry to disappoint you, but science is about what is.

Actually, no, sorry, that>s only one aspect of science.

We use what we know about what is, to think up things that could be, in
order to continually test our understanding of the former. In other
words, we use our knowledge to build instruments to calibrate our
theories.
[/quote]
I believe that>s what I said in the parts you snipped:

[quote]"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-480D06.18533230062008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...

Sorry to disappoint you, but science is about what is. But don>t
misunderstand that to mean that scientists don>t have imagination. It
takes imagination to come up with an explanation that fits the facts
well and makes predictions about what ... could be. Then the scientists
go back and see if they can find those things that ... could be.

Nature does the same thing when it constructs life forms.
[/quote]
I>m not sure about that last bit.

[quote]We>re just mimicking nature because we too are of nature.
[/quote]
I don>t buy it. "Nature" tries everything without knowing what will
work. Humans (scientists) try things based on observation and theory.

[quote]Get it? Don>t let the creationists get wise to it, ok?
[/quote]
Okay. Whatever.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don>t blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

don findlay · Guest

jonathan wrote:

[quote]
Doesn>t anyone here have an abstract bone in their body?
[/quote]
I have an astral bone if that>s any good...

[quote]Doesn>t anyone think science should be more about
what...could...be?
[/quote]
...In fact I probably have a few...

don findlay · Guest

kT wrote:

[quote]

You>re conversing at the kindergarten level.
Who with? Not me.. The Woof doesn>t talk to me. Neither does that[/quote]
other geezer, Rubber Trolleydosser.

don findlay · Guest

jonathan wrote:

[quote]Doesn>t anyone think science should be more about
what...could...be?
[/quote]
That>s metaphysics, ..not science.

[quote]
And you>re right, it>ll never happen.[/quote]

don findlay · Guest

kT wrote:

[quote]In other
words, we use our knowledge to build instruments to calibrate our
theories.
[/quote]
That>s technology, ..not science

[quote]Nature does the same thing when it constructs life forms.

We>re just mimicking nature because we too are of nature.

Get it? Don>t let the creationists get wise to it, ok?[/quote]

don findlay · Guest

Timberwoof wrote:

[quote]In article <Vgfak.17621$Xe.1742@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
"jonathan" <Home@write.instead.net> wrote:

Doesn>t anyone here have an abstract bone in their body?
Doesn>t anyone think science should be more about
what...could...be?

So you>re upset because scientists don>t do what you want them to do.

Sorry to disappoint you, but science is about what is.
[/quote]
Whether you like it or not, science to the career scientist is about
consensus - and publication. The science is only a vehicle which can
always have a respray. A missed publication opportunity is like a
nail in the coffin.

But if it>s consensus, t>aint science.. <the usual citation here>

[quote]But don>t
misunderstand that to mean that scientists don>t have imagination. It
takes imagination to come up with an explanation that fits the facts
[/quote]
It takes even more imagination to come with interpretations that
don>t. But that doesn>t make you a scientist.

[quote]well and makes predictions about what ... could be. Then the scientists
go back and see if they can find those things that ... could be.
[/quote]
("Could be/ what if..") Who gives a shit about modeling. (something
like yodelling...) Just get the parameters in the right order at the
right scale and you don>t need any (...Blinking tomato sauce to
simulate mantle flow..) I mean... (where>s my knitting...)

And you go brush your shapely legs Woof, ... before you talk to me.

kT · Guest

Timberwoof wrote:
[quote]In article <g4c3bp$u3g$1@aioe.org>, kT <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:

Timberwoof wrote:
In article <Vgfak.17621$Xe.1742@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
"jonathan" <Home@write.instead.net> wrote:

Doesn>t anyone here have an abstract bone in their body?
Doesn>t anyone think science should be more about
what...could...be?
So you>re upset because scientists don>t do what you want them to do.

Sorry to disappoint you, but science is about what is.
Actually, no, sorry, that>s only one aspect of science.

We use what we know about what is, to think up things that could be, in
order to continually test our understanding of the former. In other
words, we use our knowledge to build instruments to calibrate our
theories.

I believe that>s what I said in the parts you snipped:

"Timberwoof" <timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote in message
news:timberwoof.spam-480D06.18533230062008@nnrp-virt.nntp.sonic.net...
Sorry to disappoint you, but science is about what is. But don>t
misunderstand that to mean that scientists don>t have imagination. It
takes imagination to come up with an explanation that fits the facts
well and makes predictions about what ... could be. Then the scientists
go back and see if they can find those things that ... could be.
[/quote]
It goes much farther than that, we BUILD things based upon that
information, and then we have to TEST those devices for functionality.

It>s an active process based upon duality. And furthermore, your
information comes in the form of an abstract model and in no way
conforms to what 'really is', most of what really is, is flying by you
so fast you only get a little restricted glimpse of it here and there.

[quote]Nature does the same thing when it constructs life forms.

I>m not sure about that last bit.

We>re just mimicking nature because we too are of nature.

I don>t buy it. "Nature" tries everything without knowing what will
work.
[/quote]
That couldn>t be farther from the truth, nature picks one evolutionary
path over all others, nature is severely restricted from the get go.

You don>t know what you>re talking about. About the only thing nature is
keen on is maximizing entropy, but observationally we do not live in an
isotropic homogeneous universe, those kinds of places simply do not
create observers. Our gaps in understanding are large and many.

Humans (scientists) try things based on observation and theory.

You>re conversing at the kindergarten level.

[quote]Get it? Don>t let the creationists get wise to it, ok?

Okay. Whatever.
[/quote]
Make sure to drink your milk and eat your cookies!

OM · Guest

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:50:24 -0700, Timberwoof
<timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:

[quote]Okay. Whatever.
[/quote]
....Would you please quit responding to trolls like "kT" and
"jonathan"? They>re known trolls, and "kT" is really Tommy Lee
Elfritz, known and self-confessed neoNazi whose anti-semitic drivel
can easily be found on google groups.

Do yourself and us a favor and killfile the little bastards. Or, at
least, keep your replies to them off of sci.space.*.

Thanks!

OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let>s face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[

OM · Guest

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 04:10:01 -0700 (PDT), don findlay
<don@tower.net.au> wrote:

[quote]That>s technology, ..not science
[/quote]
....Jeez, Don! You>ve been around Usenet long enough to know you can>t
talk sense to a troll. Especially a known, self-confirmed neo-Nazi!

Just killfile the dograping bastards and put them out of our misery,
eh?

OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let>s face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[

josephus · Guest

BradGuth wrote:
[quote]On Jun 21, 9:22 pm, windbag <jaunty.akhena...@gmail.com> wrote:
jonathan wrote:
"Pat Flannery" <flan...@daktel.com> wrote in message
news:28-dnQeJW7zSXMXVnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@posted.northdakotatelephone...
George wrote:
NASA said today that the hole is directly beneath a thruster, and so is
probably the result of a thruster firing when the craft landed. They also
said that that might indicate that the slab is ice.
Or dry ice... I took a Bernz-O-Matic torch to water ice with very poor results
indeed, and the total time of the landing engine>s impinging on the Martian
surface would be be very low, measured in a few seconds at most.
I was wondering about that. But I think they>re going to find the white
slabs and material in the trench is indeed water ice. That area has
observations from the Odyssey orbiter showing from 30% to 60%
water ice in the first meter or so. Even in the first few inches.
The poles are all covered with Co2 ice, but on the fringes surrounding
the poles is a region of water ice. Which is where they landed.
So I think that>s a slab of water ice with naturally bored holes.
The data supports a ...currently active...water cycle on Mars in
these areas. Which is what life needs. I believe the best conditions
for life would be where water transitions from water-ice-vapor
and back again. Not so much in any one of those realms, but where
the transition takes place. This landing site is looking better every
day. I>m getting psyched up!
Water Mass Map from Neutron Spectrometer
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/multimedia/6433-20080513.html
ASU scientist finds Martian ice is patchy and variable
"The fact that ice is present near the depth of stability in the current
Martian climate shows that the ground ice is responding to
climate cycles," he says." "This implies that water ice in the ground
can swap places with water vapor in the atmosphere as the climate
changes, he says, adding:
"The THEMIS measurements support an active water cycle on Mars,
such as other research has predicted."
http://asunews.asu.edu/stories/200705/20070503_marsice.htm
It really didn>t help that it took so long to get the soil sample into the
test chamber - any CO2 or water ice in it might have sublimated into the
atmosphere between the time it was scooped up and the time it finally got into
the test chamber days later.
Ideally, the soil sample goes into the test chamber within a few minutes after
the arm scoops it up, to preserve any volatile ices in it.
I still have grave doubts about it finding water ice, but would happily admit
to being wrong about this if firm proof of water ice is found, because of the
profound implications of such a finding.
Here>s a really nice paper on the presumed history of water ice at
the Phoenix Mars landing site. Aptly named....
THE HISTORY OF ICE AT THE PHOENIX MARS
LANDING SITE
Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIX (2008) 1479
What>s interesting is this statement below is about the age
of the ice.
"It is not reliably known when the last massive ice sheet
formed [14, 5, 6] or how humidity varies with time. In total,
four climate scenarios are simulated: Precipitation 5640 ka
ago and 632 ka ago (the most recent obliquity maximum with
~35 d) with constant humidity and time ï¿½varying humidity.
Figure 3 shows preliminary model results for the vertical
ice profile, if the last ice sheet formed 632 ka ago. The massive
ice sheet is much closer to the surface than it would be had
it last formed millions of years ago."
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1479.pdf
Not so old as we>ve been led to believe all this time.
Nearer the surface means younger. And if that is ice
they>ve photographed so close to the surface....it must
be very young. Since the soil is thought to build from
dust accumulation from the air.
Since other data indicates Mars is just now exiting
an ice age and warming, it may be the last warm
period with liquid water near the surface could have
have been that figure of 630,000 years ago.
Not billions, maybe not even millions of years ago.
And another thing, it>s pretty clear from the much
greater lag deposit at the Phoenix site that it>s a much
older surface than at Meridiani, which is pure soil
with hardly a rock to be found. That implies water
ice could have been at Meridiani even more recently.
I>m going with ...all the white stuff... is water ice.
Pat
Under what conditions does carbonated salt water stay frozen?

Also, frozen hydrogen peroxide is not entirely impossible.

kk

Why no mass spectrometer readings?

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth
[/quote]
because most americans are as stupid as bradguth. he would NEVER read
the data if they published it. he would make up his own, and ask for
some one else to write super computer graphics to prove it.

josephus
--
I go sailing in the summer
and look at stars in the winter,
"Everybody is ignorant but on different subjects"
--Will Rogers
Its not what you know that gets you in trouble
its what you know that aint so.
--josh billings.

kT · Guest

OM wrote:
[quote]On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:50:24 -0700, Timberwoof
timberwoof.spam@inferNOnoSPAMsoft.com> wrote:

Okay. Whatever.

...Would you please quit responding to trolls like "kT" and
"jonathan"? They>re known trolls, and "kT" is really Tommy Lee
Elfritz, known and self-confessed neoNazi whose anti-semitic drivel
can easily be found on google groups.
[/quote]
And I>ve invited you many times to give us a SINGLE google link to my so
called 'anti-semitic drivel', but you can>t, can you. Not a single one.

That>s because there isn>t any.

You are a liar and a fascist, Robert Mosley III of Austin Texas.

[quote]Do yourself and us a favor and killfile the little bastards. Or, at
least, keep your replies to them off of sci.space.*.
[/quote]
Go f ck yourself, fascist.

redleg · Guest

On Jun 26, 8:00ï¿½am, "Andrew Heenan" <f...@will.com> wrote:
[quote]blues...@hotmail.com wrote:
Sady, this willl be my final brief posting to the news groups.

That>s just great, thanks.
But who>s Sady?
And why a special message for her?
[/quote]

Sady was 1997 Ebay Babe of the Year

V for Vendicar · Guest

[quote]Flat ice... Under a rocket thruster?

It would have sublimed away a long time ago.
[/quote]

"Pat Flannery" <flanner@daktel.com> wrote
[quote]We talking dry ice or water ice here?
Temperature, heating by solar illumination, atmospheric pressure, and the
insulating properties of the soil over the ice all change its ability to
sublimate into the atmosphere.
Personally, I think there>s nothing but CO2 "dry ice" there.
But, who knows?
[/quote]
Looks like it>s water ice frost. Quite frankly I>m surprised at it>s form
just under the surface of the sand.

Water ice frost has been photographed by landers on the surface of mars, so
it>s not unprecedented. But clearly there is a large reservior of water
just under the surface in that region, just as the orbital obsrevations
suggested.

Congratulations to the scientists who built the orbiter.

"Pat Flannery" <flanner@daktel.com> wrote
[quote]What interests me is the NASA "liquid water" ejections on the side of the
crater photos from around a year back.
[/quote]
The consensus opinion now, is that they were not caused by water but by
the collapse of a column of sand.

"Pat Flannery" <flanner@daktel.com> wrote
[quote]At Mars surface temperatures, the triple point of CO2 needs only pressure
to allow CO2 to exist in a liquid form.. and those "water ejections" came
out of the side of the crater from around a hundred feet or more depth -
never on the surface.
[/quote]
I>m suspicious myself. Look at this image.

http://www.ufoarea.com/pictures/mars_comp_trees_veg.jpg

Also I would love to see close up photo>s of these structures.
Ignore the web pages, they are just used as an image repository for my
purposes.

http://historyandmystery.homestead.com/files/Mars_trees.jpg

http://paranormal.about.com/library/graphics/mars_trees1_lg.jpg

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/evidence-reports/2006/101/01a-101-E0700860-spouts.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.marsanomalyresearch.com/evidence-reports/2006/101/spouts-plants-forests-1.htm&h=570&w=726&sz=38&hl=en&start=81&um=1&tbnid=Pi_SF2KxJY-qBM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=141&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmars%2Btrees%26start%3D80%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

johac · Guest

In article <7wjak.5072$fk2.7838@weber.videotron.net>,
"mich" <copkat@vidotron.cr> wrote:

[quote]"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jhachmann-D772EA.21463430062008@news.giganews.com...
In article <avt964h94p8e8gav3oqvcpr90hhk4a7gap@4ax.com>,
PeterD <peter2@hipson.net> wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:00:09 -0700, johac
jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:

MAN AS OLD AS COAL
http://www.edconradtheasshole.com

He>ll disappear for a while only to surface again under a new name.
Typical trollish behavior.

He never comes back as a new 'name', mostly because he>s a #1 kook.
Right in there with the MI-5 guy. <g

The undynamic duo.
--
John #1782

Is the MI-5 guy still around? I have in filtered out.
[/quote]
I wouldn>t know. I killfiled him a long time ago.
--
John #1782

the man from Havana · Guest

On Jul 2, 10:51 pm, "Eduard Groenstein" <groenstei...@hatmail.com>
wrote:
[quote]sir.jpturc...@neuf.fr wrote:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Chennai/Why_Andamans_shakes/article
show/3178646.cms CHENNAI: The undersea earthquakes that shook the
beautiful islands of Andaman and Nicobar in the last three days are
due to a 'settling process' of the fault plates and need not cause
any major worries, say experts.
etc

In my last post, I forgot to offer my congratulations for that
tremendous French military victory over the onlookers at Carcassonne
yesterday.

Regards
Eduard

--
[/quote]
LOL !!!!!!!


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