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Guest

Hello,

A form in Spanish has the following fields.

1. Nombre

2. Primer apellido

3. Secundo apellido (opcional para extranjeros)

In English, would they translate correctly as:

1. First name

2. Last name

3. Additional last name (optional for foreigners)

Thanks,

G. Amik

mb · Guest

On Jul 2, 5:37 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel...@yahoo.co.uk>

[quote]Although both English and Spanish put the given name first, not all
languages do (e.g. Hungarian), so, it>s safer to say "given name".
[/quote]
"Given name" is not universally and immediately understood in the US.
I remember having to train the personnel to explain it orally to the
form-fillers. Of course the customary term, christian name, is taboo,
so what else are we left with?

Athel Cornish-Bowden · Guest

On 2008-06-30 06:29:44 +0200, gamik@ifrance.com said:

[quote]Hello,

A form in Spanish has the following fields.

1. Nombre

2. Primer apellido

3. Secundo apellido (opcional para extranjeros)

In English, would they translate correctly as:

1. First name
[/quote]
Although both English and Spanish put the given name first, not all
languages do (e.g. Hungarian), so, it>s safer to say "given name".
[quote]
2. Last name
[/quote]
Paternal surname (i.e. surname inherited from the father).
[quote]
3. Additional last name (optional for foreigners)
[/quote]
Maternal surname (inherited from the mother -- optional because most
foreigners don>t use it at all).

All Spanish people have two surnames. If Juan José García López marries
Pilar Meléndez Soto then she will continue to be Pilar Meléndez Soto
after marriage (though she may use Pilar de García for some purposes),
and their son Juan will be Juan García Meléndez and their daughter
María will be María García Meléndez. This system is used in at least
some other Spanish-speaking countries (e.g. Chile), but not, I think,
all (e.g. Argentina).

The only time I can remember my secundo apellido being required was
when my name was entered into my wife>s Chilean passport. Sometimes I
just leave the secundo apellido field blank on forms, and they don>t
seem to mind.

--
athel

Ekkehard Dengler · Guest

mb wrote:
[quote]On Jul 2, 5:37 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel...@yahoo.co.uk

Although both English and Spanish put the given name first, not all
languages do (e.g. Hungarian), so, it>s safer to say "given name".

"Given name" is not universally and immediately understood in the US.
I remember having to train the personnel to explain it orally to the
form-fillers. Of course the customary term, christian name, is taboo,
so what else are we left with?
[/quote]
"Forename"?

Regards,
Ekkehard

Edward Hennessey · Guest

gamik@ifrance.com wrote:
[quote]Hello,

A form in Spanish has the following fields.

1. Nombre

2. Primer apellido

3. Secundo apellido (opcional para extranjeros)

In English, would they translate correctly as:

1. First name

2. Last name

3. Additional last name (optional for foreigners)

Thanks,

G. Amik
[/quote]
I>m going with:

1. First name. However, to put other dissensions to rest, "personal name"
might be a candidate.
It would be unlikely that the applicant would to try to put his full name
in that slot given the presence of the other categorization blanks. But the
unlikely occurs.

2. Family name. "Last name" is fine too along with the clueless user
having to get educated about
what that means.

3. Continued last name. "Additional" is fine but if the handle gets
extended across the page,
continued might allow all of it whereas "additional" may suggest that the
applicant
pick part of that longer string. Then again, only part may be solicited in
which case the quoted
term rules.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Edward Hennessey · Guest

mb wrote:
[quote]On Jul 2, 5:37 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel...@yahoo.co.uk

Although both English and Spanish put the given name first, not all
languages do (e.g. Hungarian), so, it>s safer to say "given name".

"Given name" is not universally and immediately understood in the
US. I remember having to train the personnel to explain it orally
to the form-fillers. Of course the customary term, christian name,
is taboo, so what else are we left with?
[/quote]
Somebody must explain why, if you take your name from your father, it is
your given name? Oh, nevermind.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Edward Hennessey · Guest

Ekkehard Dengler wrote:
[quote]mb wrote:
On Jul 2, 5:37 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel...@yahoo.co.uk

Although both English and Spanish put the given name first, not
all languages do (e.g. Hungarian), so, it>s safer to say "given
name".

"Given name" is not universally and immediately understood in the
US. I remember having to train the personnel to explain it orally
to the form-fillers. Of course the customary term, christian name,
is taboo, so what else are we left with?

"Forename"?
[/quote]
ED:

And, perhaps, also relevant to:

1. Forewoman or Foreman of the jury or work crew?
2. Nom de golf?
3. The name of the final quadruplet?
4. A name you try out before making a final choice?
5. What you mistakenly call a person before he corrects you?

Too bad "moniker" has passed from style.

I think Ptah and Ra were both credited with bringing the universe into
existence by speaking it but can>t immediately resolve whether it was Horus
that
gave life to beings by saying their names. As Egyptian mythology is as
linear as
a tangled ball of string, there may be more than one suspect implicated in
the
creationist name calling.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Athel Cornish-Bowden · Guest

On 2008-07-02 11:31:43 -0600, "Edward Hennessey"
<halozzyzxhaloMINUS123@yahoo.com> said:

[quote]gamik@ifrance.com wrote:
Hello,

A form in Spanish has the following fields.

1. Nombre

2. Primer apellido

3. Secundo apellido (opcional para extranjeros)

In English, would they translate correctly as:

1. First name

2. Last name

3. Additional last name (optional for foreigners)

Thanks,

G. Amik

I>m going with:

[ ... ]

2. Family name. "Last name" is fine too along with the clueless user
having to get educated about
what that means.
[/quote]
Well yes, except that the primer apellido doesn>t come last!
--
athel

Evertjan. · Guest

Edward Hennessey wrote on 03 jul 2008 in sci.lang.translation:

[quote]Somebody must explain why, if you take your name from your father, it is
your given name?
[/quote]
Who said English was logical?

In this case it is just a question of giving and taking.

On the other hand, if you "take from" wouldn>t he lose that name?

[quote]Oh, nevermind.
[/quote]
I thought the old saying was "Never mind the child",
before we came to love [with] the pil.

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x>es to dots in my emailaddress)

Ekkehard Dengler · Guest

Edward Hennessey wrote:
[quote]Ekkehard Dengler wrote:
mb wrote:
On Jul 2, 5:37 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel...@yahoo.co.uk

Although both English and Spanish put the given name first, not
all languages do (e.g. Hungarian), so, it>s safer to say "given
name".

"Given name" is not universally and immediately understood in the
US. I remember having to train the personnel to explain it orally
to the form-fillers. Of course the customary term, christian name,
is taboo, so what else are we left with?

"Forename"?

ED:

And, perhaps, also relevant to:

1. Forewoman or Foreman of the jury or work crew?
2. Nom de golf?
3. The name of the final quadruplet?
[/quote]
The famous Um Dois Três de Oliveira Quatro comes to mind, who is apparently
a fourth child, though probably not a quadruplet.

[quote]4. A name you try out before making a final choice?
5. What you mistakenly call a person before he corrects you?
[/quote]
Very creative. I wonder whether you think I made the word up, though,
because it is vastly less common in AmE than in BrE, if Google is to be
believed.

Regards,
Ekkehard

Edward Hennessey · Guest

Ekkehard Dengler wrote:
[quote]Edward Hennessey wrote:
Ekkehard Dengler wrote:
mb wrote:
On Jul 2, 5:37 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel...@yahoo.co.uk

Although both English and Spanish put the given name first, not
all languages do (e.g. Hungarian), so, it>s safer to say "given
name".

"Given name" is not universally and immediately understood in the
US. I remember having to train the personnel to explain it orally
to the form-fillers. Of course the customary term, christian
name, is taboo, so what else are we left with?

"Forename"?

ED:

And, perhaps, also relevant to:

1. Forewoman or Foreman of the jury or work crew?
2. Nom de golf?
3. The name of the final quadruplet?

The famous Um Dois Três de Oliveira Quatro comes to mind, who is
apparently a fourth child, though probably not a quadruplet.

4. A name you try out before making a final choice?
5. What you mistakenly call a person before he corrects you?

Very creative. I wonder whether you think I made the word up,
though, because it is vastly less common in AmE than in BrE, if
Google is to be believed.
[/quote]

ED:

This was just the pure exercise of merriment. One of our favorite
occasional disports is to take
various objects and suggest inventive uses that failed to find spark in the
fabricator>s imagination.
That can be highly entertaining with others not prepossessed of the
equation of maturity and
dullness.

The word itself I knew but you are right. It is one that has never filled
my ears thisaway.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Edward Hennessey · Guest

Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
[quote]On 2008-07-02 11:31:43 -0600, "Edward Hennessey"
halozzyzxhaloMINUS123@yahoo.com> said:

gamik@ifrance.com wrote:
Hello,

A form in Spanish has the following fields.

1. Nombre

2. Primer apellido

3. Secundo apellido (opcional para extranjeros)

In English, would they translate correctly as:

1. First name

2. Last name

3. Additional last name (optional for foreigners)

Thanks,

G. Amik

I>m going with:

[ ... ]

2. Family name. "Last name" is fine too along with the clueless
user having to get educated about
what that means.

Well yes, except that the primer apellido doesn>t come last!
[/quote]
ACB:

Wouldn>t it be fun to see what the form takers do when they encounter
a Javanese man named Arak?

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Edward Hennessey · Guest

Evertjan. wrote:
[quote]Edward Hennessey wrote on 03 jul 2008 in sci.lang.translation:

Somebody must explain why, if you take your name from your father,
it is your given name?

Who said English was logical?

In this case it is just a question of giving and taking.

On the other hand, if you "take from" wouldn>t he lose that name?
[/quote]
E:

Now this is the germ of an idea. For example, Dad gives his name to his son
in traditional continuance. Then Dad gets to take--or is somehow given--a
new name
reflective of his life, aspirations, etcetera. Frankly, it would be
somewhat unsurprising
if an element of humanity has not implemented this.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Edward Hennessey · Guest

Ekkehard Dengler wrote:
[quote]Edward Hennessey wrote:
Ekkehard Dengler wrote:
mb wrote:
On Jul 2, 5:37 am, Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel...@yahoo.co.uk

Although both English and Spanish put the given name first, not
all languages do (e.g. Hungarian), so, it>s safer to say "given
name".

"Given name" is not universally and immediately understood in the
US. I remember having to train the personnel to explain it orally
to the form-fillers. Of course the customary term, christian
name, is taboo, so what else are we left with?

"Forename"?

ED:

And, perhaps, also relevant to:

1. Forewoman or Foreman of the jury or work crew?
2. Nom de golf?
3. The name of the final quadruplet?

The famous Um Dois Três de Oliveira Quatro comes to mind, who is
apparently a fourth child, though probably not a quadruplet.
[/quote]
ED:

My fingers had hardly forsaken the keyboard before laying hands on
a warming electronic module sympathetically awoke me from my sorry
oversight. Not to forget that solid-state siren of imperious abundance
and winsome angst, 6 of 9.

Then there was the occasion of finding three wee baby hats sewn together
across a small band at the bottom. Took more than a moment to think
triplets.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Evertjan. · Guest

Edward Hennessey wrote on 03 jul 2008 in sci.lang.translation:

[quote]Now this is the germ of an idea. For example, Dad gives his name to
his son in traditional continuance. Then Dad gets to take--or is
somehow given--a new name
reflective of his life, aspirations, etcetera. Frankly, it would be
somewhat unsurprising
if an element of humanity has not implemented this.
[/quote]
This is a bit what is happening on the farms of this Saxon speaking part of
the Netherlands called Twente [after the tribe from Roman times, Caesar
called them the Tuibanti or Tuihanti], where I live.

The farmer [not his family] is called with the name of his farm.
When the farmer dies, the eldest son takes over the farm and that name,
and is called first-name + farm-name, or sometimes the reverse.
His civil family-name also exists since Napoleon>s occupation, but is not
used in the "Naber" setting.

["Naberschap" = the reciprocal aid and social group of neigbouring farms.
Neighbour in Dutch would be "buurman". City people and people outside this
area do not know about all this naber and farm name stuff].

--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x>es to dots in my emailaddress)


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