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Douglas G. Kilday
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 Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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Spanish <pata> 'duck', <pato> 'drake' are derived from Arabic <bat.t.>
according to the Real Academia>s dictionary (18th ed., 1956). The
only other Spanish words in <pa-> in this dictionary which are
referred to an Arabic source in <ba-> are those for 'parrot',
<papagayo>, <-a>, from Ar. <babbaga:'>. Against these are a large
number of Spanish words in <ba-> derived from Arabic words in <ba->,
such as Sp. <bata> 'sleeved housecoat' from Ar. <batt> 'type of coarse
cloak'.
If the Arabic for 'parrot' was initially loaned into Spanish as
*babagayo, the /b/'s could have been replaced by /p/'s under the
influence of other bird-names with this sequence, namely <papa>
'goldfinch, yellow warbler', <papafigo> 'fig-pecker, garden-warbler',
<papamoscas> 'fly-catcher, muscicapa'. No such mechanism suggests
itself for <pata>, unless Sp. *bata or *bato, borrowed from Ar.
<bat.t.>, was crossed with the other Sp. word for 'duck', <parro>,
which is said to be onomatopoeic (cf. <parpar> 'to quack as a duck').
Such an influence seems much less likely than the one presumed for
<papagayo>.
Among the Spanish words in <ba-> is <barchilla> 'a dry measure used in
Alicante, Castellón, and Valencia', referred to an Arabic <barji:la>
or <barja:lla>, itself from Latin *particella 'portion, parcel' (at
the time of borrowing, very likely pronounced /parc^e.lla/, much like
Italian <parcèlla> 'bill'). Arabic, of course, has no /p/, and
commonly renders /t/ from Latin/Romance borrowings as /t./. This
suggests that Ar. <bat.t.> 'goose' could be borrowed from a Hispano-
Latin *patta 'duck', with Sp. <pata> continuing *patta, and <pato>
continuing the specifically masculine *pattus 'drake' formed on *patta
by analogy, much like Late Latin <cattus> 'tomcat' formed on <catta>
'cat', which was originally epicene (Sp. <gato>, <gata>).
As a non-Semitist, I would like to know whether there is any objection
on the Arabic side to seeing <bat.t.> as a loanword from Latin/
Romance, such as ancient cognates in other Semitic languages.
Georgian <bat.i> 'goose' and some similar North Caucasian words for
'duck' are likely borrowed from Arabic.
DGK |
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Marc
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:07 am Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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On Jul 14, 5:10 pm, "Douglas G. Kilday" <fufl...@chorus.net> wrote:
[quote]referred to an Arabic source in <ba-> are those for 'parrot',
papagayo>, <-a>, from Ar. <babbaga:'>. Against these are a large
[/quote]
So did the Russians get 'papugaj' from Arabic, too?
Marc |
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Peter T. Daniels
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:22 am Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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On Jul 14, 6:10 pm, "Douglas G. Kilday" <fufl...@chorus.net> wrote:
[quote]Spanish <pata> 'duck', <pato> 'drake' are derived from Arabic <bat.t.
according to the Real Academia>s dictionary (18th ed., 1956). The
only other Spanish words in <pa-> in this dictionary which are
referred to an Arabic source in <ba-> are those for 'parrot',
papagayo>, <-a>, from Ar. <babbaga:'>. Against these are a large
number of Spanish words in <ba-> derived from Arabic words in <ba->,
such as Sp. <bata> 'sleeved housecoat' from Ar. <batt> 'type of coarse
cloak'.
If the Arabic for 'parrot' was initially loaned into Spanish as
*babagayo, the /b/'s could have been replaced by /p/'s under the
influence of other bird-names with this sequence, namely <papa
'goldfinch, yellow warbler', <papafigo> 'fig-pecker, garden-warbler',
papamoscas> 'fly-catcher, muscicapa'. No such mechanism suggests
itself for <pata>, unless Sp. *bata or *bato, borrowed from Ar.
bat.t.>, was crossed with the other Sp. word for 'duck', <parro>,
which is said to be onomatopoeic (cf. <parpar> 'to quack as a duck').
Such an influence seems much less likely than the one presumed for
papagayo>.
Among the Spanish words in <ba-> is <barchilla> 'a dry measure used in
Alicante, Castellón, and Valencia', referred to an Arabic <barji:la
or <barja:lla>, itself from Latin *particella 'portion, parcel' (at
the time of borrowing, very likely pronounced /parc^e.lla/, much like
Italian <parcèlla> 'bill'). Arabic, of course, has no /p/, and
commonly renders /t/ from Latin/Romance borrowings as /t./. This
suggests that Ar. <bat.t.> 'goose' could be borrowed from a Hispano-
Latin *patta 'duck', with Sp. <pata> continuing *patta, and <pato
continuing the specifically masculine *pattus 'drake' formed on *patta
by analogy, much like Late Latin <cattus> 'tomcat' formed on <catta
'cat', which was originally epicene (Sp. <gato>, <gata>).
As a non-Semitist, I would like to know whether there is any objection
on the Arabic side to seeing <bat.t.> as a loanword from Latin/
Romance, such as ancient cognates in other Semitic languages.
Georgian <bat.i> 'goose' and some similar North Caucasian words for
'duck' are likely borrowed from Arabic.
[/quote]
Brockelmann Lexicon Syriacum has baTaa (consonant length not marked)
'anas' (is that 'duck'?) < Pers.
D. Cohen Dictionnaire des racines semitiques has baTTaa 'canard' only
in Syr and Ar but doesn>t offer an origin. How would you choose
between Persian and Latin? |
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Harlan Messinger
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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Douglas G. Kilday wrote:
[quote]Spanish <pata> 'duck', <pato> 'drake' are derived from Arabic <bat.t.
according to the Real Academia>s dictionary (18th ed., 1956). The
only other Spanish words in <pa-> in this dictionary which are
referred to an Arabic source in <ba-> are those for 'parrot',
papagayo>, <-a>, from Ar. <babbaga:'>.
[/quote]
That>s interesting because their current on-line dictionary (22nd
edition) says it>s of unknown origin. Did they forget since the 18th?
http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=papagayo |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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On Jul 15, 6:25 am, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
[quote]Douglas G. Kilday wrote:
Spanish <pata> 'duck', <pato> 'drake' are derived from Arabic <bat.t.
according to the Real Academia>s dictionary (18th ed., 1956). The
only other Spanish words in <pa-> in this dictionary which are
referred to an Arabic source in <ba-> are those for 'parrot',
papagayo>, <-a>, from Ar. <babbaga:'>.
That>s interesting because their current on-line dictionary (22nd
edition) says it>s of unknown origin. Did they forget since the 18th?
[/quote]
I don>t know about Real Academia, but Wahrig proposes an unspecified
"westafrikan. Eingeborenensprache" as the ultimate source of the
German "Papagei", mediated through Arabic and Romance languages. |
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António Marques
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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Douglas G. Kilday wrote:
[quote]Spanish<pata> 'duck',<pato> 'drake' are derived from
Arabic<bat.t.> according to the Real Academia>s dictionary (18th ed.,
1956). The only other Spanish words in<pa-> in this dictionary
which are referred to an Arabic source in<ba-> are those for
'parrot', <papagayo>,<-a>, from Ar.<babbaga:'>. Against these are a
large number of Spanish words in<ba-> derived from Arabic words
in<ba->, such as Sp.<bata> 'sleeved housecoat' from Ar.<batt> 'type
of coarse cloak'.
[/quote]
Portuguese has pato, papagaio, bata.
- Pato doesn>t feel foreign at all, but seems to be linked to pata
'animal foot', given their conspicuous feet. 'Pata' is one of the few
words which can take the suffix -orra, in its case acting as a jocular
augmentative (while meaning 'animal foot', not while meaning 'female duck').
- Papagaio is said to be influenced by latin gaius. Regarding
contamination by papa- 'eats' (here one can appreciate the echt romance
way of compouding, 3PSg+Object), I>d expect it to have kept /pap-/,
instead of having it reduced to /p@p-/ (spanish, of course, doesn>t know
the difference), but it>s not impossible.
Among the words with erratic behaviour are varrer 'sweep', vassoura
'broom', which seem to have b in spanish and e in latin.
And Beja is from Pax Iulia, in yet another arabic p>b.
Every portuguese child has an intimate knowledge of ducks (patinhos are
all over nursery rhymes), but they>re seldom heard of from puberty on
(except when people insist that you should join them on having some rice
au duck).
--
António Marques
--
This signature does not include a prefab parting phrase
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
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Italo
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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Peter T. Daniels wrote:
[quote]On Jul 14, 6:10 pm, "Douglas G. Kilday" <fufl...@chorus.net> wrote:
Spanish <pata> 'duck', <pato> 'drake' are derived from Arabic <bat.t.
according to the Real Academia>s dictionary (18th ed., 1956). The
only other Spanish words in <pa-> in this dictionary which are
referred to an Arabic source in <ba-> are those for 'parrot',
papagayo>, <-a>, from Ar. <babbaga:'>. Against these are a large
number of Spanish words in <ba-> derived from Arabic words in <ba->,
such as Sp. <bata> 'sleeved housecoat' from Ar. <batt> 'type of coarse
cloak'.
If the Arabic for 'parrot' was initially loaned into Spanish as
*babagayo, the /b/'s could have been replaced by /p/'s under the
influence of other bird-names with this sequence, namely <papa
'goldfinch, yellow warbler', <papafigo> 'fig-pecker, garden-warbler',
papamoscas> 'fly-catcher, muscicapa'. No such mechanism suggests
itself for <pata>, unless Sp. *bata or *bato, borrowed from Ar.
bat.t.>, was crossed with the other Sp. word for 'duck', <parro>,
which is said to be onomatopoeic (cf. <parpar> 'to quack as a duck').
Such an influence seems much less likely than the one presumed for
papagayo>.
Among the Spanish words in <ba-> is <barchilla> 'a dry measure used in
Alicante, Castellón, and Valencia', referred to an Arabic <barji:la
or <barja:lla>, itself from Latin *particella 'portion, parcel' (at
the time of borrowing, very likely pronounced /parc^e.lla/, much like
Italian <parcèlla> 'bill'). Arabic, of course, has no /p/, and
commonly renders /t/ from Latin/Romance borrowings as /t./. This
suggests that Ar. <bat.t.> 'goose' could be borrowed from a Hispano-
Latin *patta 'duck', with Sp. <pata> continuing *patta, and <pato
continuing the specifically masculine *pattus 'drake' formed on *patta
by analogy, much like Late Latin <cattus> 'tomcat' formed on <catta
'cat', which was originally epicene (Sp. <gato>, <gata>).
As a non-Semitist, I would like to know whether there is any objection
on the Arabic side to seeing <bat.t.> as a loanword from Latin/
Romance, such as ancient cognates in other Semitic languages.
Georgian <bat.i> 'goose' and some similar North Caucasian words for
'duck' are likely borrowed from Arabic.
Brockelmann Lexicon Syriacum has baTaa (consonant length not marked)
'anas' (is that 'duck'?) < Pers.
D. Cohen Dictionnaire des racines semitiques has baTTaa 'canard' only
in Syr and Ar but doesn>t offer an origin. How would you choose
between Persian and Latin?
[/quote]
How about Egyptian? bDA = goose.
<http://www.wordgumbo.com/aa/egy/beinlich.txt> |
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Douglas G. Kilday
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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Peter T. Daniels wrote:
[quote]Douglas G. Kilday wrote:
Spanish <pata> 'duck', <pato> 'drake' are derived from Arabic <bat.t.
according to the Real Academia>s dictionary (18th ed., 1956). The
only other Spanish words in <pa-> in this dictionary which are
referred to an Arabic source in <ba-> are those for 'parrot',
papagayo>, <-a>, from Ar. <babbaga:'>. Against these are a large
number of Spanish words in <ba-> derived from Arabic words in <ba->,
such as Sp. <bata> 'sleeved housecoat' from Ar. <batt> 'type of coarse
cloak'.
If the Arabic for 'parrot' was initially loaned into Spanish as
*babagayo, the /b/'s could have been replaced by /p/'s under the
influence of other bird-names with this sequence, namely <papa
'goldfinch, yellow warbler', <papafigo> 'fig-pecker, garden-warbler',
papamoscas> 'fly-catcher, muscicapa'. No such mechanism suggests
itself for <pata>, unless Sp. *bata or *bato, borrowed from Ar.
bat.t.>, was crossed with the other Sp. word for 'duck', <parro>,
which is said to be onomatopoeic (cf. <parpar> 'to quack as a duck').
Such an influence seems much less likely than the one presumed for
papagayo>.
Among the Spanish words in <ba-> is <barchilla> 'a dry measure used in
Alicante, Castellón, and Valencia', referred to an Arabic <barji:la
or <barja:lla>, itself from Latin *particella 'portion, parcel' (at
the time of borrowing, very likely pronounced /parc^e.lla/, much like
Italian <parcèlla> 'bill'). Arabic, of course, has no /p/, and
commonly renders /t/ from Latin/Romance borrowings as /t./. This
suggests that Ar. <bat.t.> 'goose' could be borrowed from a Hispano-
Latin *patta 'duck', with Sp. <pata> continuing *patta, and <pato
continuing the specifically masculine *pattus 'drake' formed on *patta
by analogy, much like Late Latin <cattus> 'tomcat' formed on <catta
'cat', which was originally epicene (Sp. <gato>, <gata>).
As a non-Semitist, I would like to know whether there is any objection
on the Arabic side to seeing <bat.t.> as a loanword from Latin/
Romance, such as ancient cognates in other Semitic languages.
Georgian <bat.i> 'goose' and some similar North Caucasian words for
'duck' are likely borrowed from Arabic.
Brockelmann Lexicon Syriacum has baTaa (consonant length not marked)
'anas' (is that 'duck'?) < Pers.
[/quote]
Yes, <anas> is Latin for 'duck'.
[quote]D. Cohen Dictionnaire des racines semitiques has baTTaa 'canard' only
in Syr and Ar but doesn>t offer an origin. How would you choose
between Persian and Latin?
[/quote]
Persian is doubtless correct. Steingass cites 'duck' as <bat>, with
the Arabic borrowing as <baT> or <baTT>. There is no Roman Latin
*patta or *pattus 'duck'; these are hypothetical Ibero-Latin forms of
unknown origin intended to explain the Spanish and Portuguese for
'duck'. Persian has a noun <patta-da:r> 'leaseholder', so there is no
reason it would deform a borrowed *patta into <bat>.
I find it implausible that Spanish would devoice only one or two
Arabic loanwords in /ba-/ to /pa-/, so I think the Pers./Syr./Ar. and
Sp./Port. words for 'duck' should be regarded as unrelated. |
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Douglas G. Kilday
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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Craoibhi wrote:
[quote]Harlan Messinger wrote:
Douglas G. Kilday wrote:
Spanish <pata> 'duck', <pato> 'drake' are derived from Arabic <bat.t.
according to the Real Academia>s dictionary (18th ed., 1956). The
only other Spanish words in <pa-> in this dictionary which are
referred to an Arabic source in <ba-> are those for 'parrot',
papagayo>, <-a>, from Ar. <babbaga:'>.
That>s interesting because their current on-line dictionary (22nd
edition) says it>s of unknown origin. Did they forget since the 18th?
[/quote]
They probably became more cautious.
[quote]I don>t know about Real Academia, but Wahrig proposes an unspecified
"westafrikan. Eingeborenensprache" as the ultimate source of the
German "Papagei", mediated through Arabic and Romance languages.
[/quote]
That makes sense. The Ibero-Romance and Arabic forms would then be
independent borrowings from this West African source, with Arabic
necessarily substituting /b/ for /p/. No need for any paretymological
substitution to explain the Romance /p/. |
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Douglas G. Kilday
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:41 am Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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Italo wrote:
[quote]Peter T. Daniels wrote:
Douglas G. Kilday wrote:
[...]
As a non-Semitist, I would like to know whether there is any objection
on the Arabic side to seeing <bat.t.> as a loanword from Latin/
Romance, such as ancient cognates in other Semitic languages.
Georgian <bat.i> 'goose' and some similar North Caucasian words for
'duck' are likely borrowed from Arabic.
Brockelmann Lexicon Syriacum has baTaa (consonant length not marked)
'anas' (is that 'duck'?) < Pers.
D. Cohen Dictionnaire des racines semitiques has baTTaa 'canard' only
in Syr and Ar but doesn>t offer an origin. How would you choose
between Persian and Latin?
How about Egyptian? bDA = goose.
http://www.wordgumbo.com/aa/egy/beinlich.txt
[/quote]
That seems not to have survived into Coptic, so perhaps it was a
loanword from some West African language, and possibly related to the
ancestor of Sp./Port. 'duck'. We do have pre-Punic place-name
elements like -ippo on both sides of the Straits of Gibraltar.
However, other examples with comparable phonetic correspondences are
required to make such a connection plausible. |
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Douglas G. Kilday
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:34 am Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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António Marques wrote:
[quote]Douglas G. Kilday wrote:
Spanish<pata> 'duck',<pato> 'drake' are derived from
Arabic<bat.t.> according to the Real Academia>s dictionary (18th ed.,
1956). The only other Spanish words in<pa-> in this dictionary
which are referred to an Arabic source in<ba-> are those for
'parrot', <papagayo>,<-a>, from Ar.<babbaga:'>. Against these are a
large number of Spanish words in<ba-> derived from Arabic words
in<ba->, such as Sp.<bata> 'sleeved housecoat' from Ar.<batt> 'type
of coarse cloak'.
Portuguese has pato, papagaio, bata.
- Pato doesn>t feel foreign at all, but seems to be linked to pata
'animal foot', given their conspicuous feet. 'Pata' is one of the few
words which can take the suffix -orra, in its case acting as a jocular
augmentative (while meaning 'animal foot', not while meaning 'female duck').
[/quote]
Another chestnut. ATILF thinks the French cognate <patte> 'animal
foot, paw' is onomatopoeic, which I regard as a cop-out. Likewise,
AHD thinks Middle English <patte> 'pat' is probably imitative. Native-
speaker intuition cuts both ways. Natives are hardly in a position to
judge whether a given word is onomatopoeic, having undergone a
lifetime of associating the sound with the sense.
[quote]- Papagaio is said to be influenced by latin gaius. Regarding
contamination by papa- 'eats' (here one can appreciate the echt romance
way of compouding, 3PSg+Object), I>d expect it to have kept /pap-/,
instead of having it reduced to /p@p-/ (spanish, of course, doesn>t know
the difference), but it>s not impossible.
[/quote]
But the /p@p-/ indicates that natives don>t regard it as one of those
echtromanisch compounds, so it probably wasn>t contaminated by 'eats',
and thus not a deformed borrowing from Arabic.
[quote]Among the words with erratic behaviour are varrer 'sweep', vassoura
'broom', which seem to have b in spanish and e in latin.
[/quote]
As a wild guess, perhaps the reflexes of L. <verrere> and <versu:ra>
were crossed with *barr-, *bars-, of Celtic origin, from PIE *bhar(s)-
'projection, point, prickle', used to denote prickly plants, and
possibly the broom? In the East Alps we have Friulian <barats>
'Gestrüpp, Dornicht, Brombeerstrauch' and similar forms.
[quote]And Beja is from Pax Iulia, in yet another arabic p>b.
[/quote]
And, importantly, the /b/ didn>t return to /p/ in Romance.
[quote]Every portuguese child has an intimate knowledge of ducks (patinhos are
all over nursery rhymes), but they>re seldom heard of from puberty on
(except when people insist that you should join them on having some rice
au duck).
[/quote]
So wild ducks are scarce there? My neighborhood is full of them.
It>s not uncommon to see a love triangle with two drakes. Several
years ago, a drake destroyed the eggs in a neighbor>s backyard which
his rival had fathered. Avian malthusism, I suppose. |
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Italo
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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Douglas G. Kilday wrote:
[quote]Italo wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
Douglas G. Kilday wrote:
[...]
As a non-Semitist, I would like to know whether
there is any objection on the Arabic side to seeing
bat.t.> as a loanword from Latin/ Romance, such as
ancient cognates in other Semitic languages.
Georgian <bat.i> 'goose' and some similar North
Caucasian words for 'duck' are likely borrowed from
Arabic.
Brockelmann Lexicon Syriacum has baTaa (consonant
length not marked) 'anas' (is that 'duck'?) < Pers.
D. Cohen Dictionnaire des racines semitiques has
baTTaa 'canard' only in Syr and Ar but doesn>t offer
an origin. How would you choose between Persian and
Latin?
How about Egyptian? bDA = goose.
http://www.wordgumbo.com/aa/egy/beinlich.txt
That seems not to have survived into Coptic, so perhaps
it was a loanword from some West African language, and
possibly related to the ancestor of Sp./Port. 'duck'. We
do have pre-Punic place-name elements like -ippo on both
sides of the Straits of Gibraltar. However, other
examples with comparable phonetic correspondences are
required to make such a connection plausible.
[/quote]
19 different words for goose in that Egyptian wordlist does
suggest loanwords. But Egypt is slightly closer to Persia
than to Gibraltar. Perhaps the Egyptian word only goes back
to the Persian period, i.e. after 525BC? Arabs were in Egypt
at that time too.
Is there any possibility that Spanish <pata> 'duck' may be
connected to 'boat', O.E. <bat>? (reminds me of
Vogelbarke type ships, btw.) |
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Italo
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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Douglas G. Kilday wrote:
[quote]I find it implausible that Spanish would devoice only one or two
Arabic loanwords in /ba-/ to /pa-/,
[/quote]
There is patache < batash (type of ship) |
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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On Jul 19, 2:58 pm, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
[quote]Italo wrote:
Douglas G. Kilday wrote:
I find it implausible that Spanish would devoice only one or two
Arabic loanwords in /ba-/ to /pa-/,
There is patache < batash (type of ship)
Interestingly, rae.es says "infl. por *pato*", which seems to beg the
question.
Well, this is interesting. Under "pato" they have "Del ár. hisp. páá¹á¹,
este del ár. clás. baá¹á¹, y este del persa bat". So did *Iberian Arabic*
develop /p/ where Classical Arabic had /b/?
[/quote]
There are two ways to determine that: from loanwords into Iberian
languages, and from fully pointed Judeo-Arabic texts from Andalusia --
which could show a Pe with dagesh. Hary in WWS registers only plain Pe
and Pe with raphe, but most Judeo-Arabic texts are from the Cairo
Genizah and so do not reflect an Iberian-influenced dialect. |
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Yusuf B Gursey
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Spanish and Arabic for 'duck' |
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On Jul 19, 4:47Â pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 19, 2:58 pm, Harlan Messinger
hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Italo wrote:
Douglas G. Kilday wrote:
I find it implausible that Spanish would devoice only one or two
Arabic loanwords in /ba-/ to /pa-/,
There is patache < batash  (type of ship)
Interestingly, rae.es says "infl. por *pato*", which seems to beg the
question.
Well, this is interesting. Under "pato" they have "Del ár. hisp. páá¹á¹,
este del ár. clás. baá¹á¹, y este del persa bat". So did *Iberian Arabic*
develop /p/ where Classical Arabic had /b/?
There are two ways to determine that: from loanwords into Iberian
[/quote]
IIRC thereare also romanized colloquial arabic - spanish vocabularies
from the late period.
[quote]languages, and from fully pointed Judeo-Arabic texts from Andalusia --
which could show a Pe with dagesh. Hary in WWS registers only plain Pe
and Pe with raphe, but most Judeo-Arabic texts are from the Cairo
Genizah and so do not reflect an Iberian-influenced dialect.[/quote] |
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