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Guest · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Rest mass

[quote]
No I guess you can>t compress the fluid. You can only compress the
bubbles, squish them or flatten them.

Well that doesn>t work because if you cannot compress that fluid, you
cannot expand that fluid. No big suck.
And so what would make the bubbles expand?
If there was only the liquid that formed the bubbles, if the liquid
was all bubbles. All foam.
Then the big suck would work.

I don>t know. There is just not enough information yet.
Perfect elasticity. That is what Einstein called it.
With regards to Brownian motion.
The idea that something can bounce back, with the exact same amount of
energy and no energy is lost to the medium.
Like a pin ball machine, elastic bumper, that would not absorb any of
the force, but would return the exact amount of force to the ball,
that it hit the elastic with.
You see the quantum foam is expanding, so is the fkuid expanding with
it and if not, the fluid will get thin and the foam will brust and it
would have happened by now, you would think.
So then, does it have perfect elasticity?
Or at least a great deal of elasticity so that eventually the foam
will burst.
The other option, is that it is expanding into Hilbert Space. And is
not really changing in size in this 3D space.
But then you can see how that would work with balloons, because
surrounding the balloons is the void, and they can expand into that
void and you would not see any change except eventually the skin would
get too thin and pop.
Seeds of entropy. If there were seeds of entropy would that not mean
there would have to be, a seed for every bubble?
If you take a liquid in a bell jar and flip the switch evacuate it,
poof you get foam. Inflationary period of the universe.
It is still expanding.
Well, we don>t have all the answers yet.
What if, they were not bubbles, but like cells, and using a form of
cell division, the universe was expanding.
Well that would mean that the universe doubles in size ever time they
divide and so that can>t be right.
We should put condensate through as many tests as we can, and liquid
helium, and see what we can find out about the properties of the foam,
and the energy emitted.
I think we have found the missing dark energy though. If the foam is
expanding, and emitting spherical waves, then thats a lot of
background radiation permeating the universe.
[/quote]
Yes that would be zero point energy.

Guest · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Rest mass

On Jul 22, 3:01 am, rick_so...@hotmail.com wrote:
[quote]No I guess you can>t compress the fluid. You can only compress the
bubbles, squish them or flatten them.

Well that doesn>t work because if you cannot compress that fluid, you
cannot expand that fluid. No big suck.
And so what would make the bubbles expand?
If there was only the liquid that formed the bubbles, if the liquid
was all bubbles. All foam.
Then the big suck would work.

I don>t know. There is just not enough information yet.
Perfect elasticity. That is what Einstein called it.
With regards to Brownian motion.
The idea that something can bounce back, with the exact same amount of
energy and no energy is lost to the medium.
Like a pin ball machine, elastic bumper, that would not absorb any of
the force, but would return the exact amount of force to the ball,
that it hit the elastic with.
You see the quantum foam is expanding, so is the fkuid expanding with
it and if not, the fluid will get thin and the foam will brust and it
would have happened by now, you would think.
So then, does it have perfect elasticity?
Or at least a great deal of elasticity so that eventually the foam
will burst.
The other option, is that it is expanding into Hilbert Space. And is
not really changing in size in this 3D space.
But then you can see how that would work with balloons, because
surrounding the balloons is the void, and they can expand into that
void and you would not see any change except eventually the skin would
get too thin and pop.
Seeds of entropy. If there were seeds of entropy would that not mean
there would have to be, a seed for every bubble?
If you take a liquid in a bell jar and flip the switch evacuate it,
poof you get foam. Inflationary period of the universe.
It is still expanding.
Well, we don>t have all the answers yet.
What if, they were not bubbles, but like cells, and using a form of
cell division, the universe was expanding.
Well that would mean that the universe doubles in size ever time they
divide and so that can>t be right.
We should put condensate through as many tests as we can, and liquid
helium, and see what we can find out about the properties of the foam,
and the energy emitted.
I think we have found the missing dark energy though. If the foam is
expanding, and emitting spherical waves, then thats a lot of
background radiation permeating the universe.

Yes that would be zero point energy.
[/quote]
"Well sand particles can act like a fluid"

But then why don>t we see large pieces of absolute space-time in solid
blocks, where these irregular shaped sand bits have gathered together
and locked up?

How would a black hole ever explode if space-time in the center of a
black hole was a solid block of sand particles?
They aren>t elastic.

George Hammond · Guest

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:59:29 +0200, "CRxx"
<spam@christine.demon.nl> wrote:

[quote]
"George Hammond"

[Christine]
Dear George. Why do the cells stop firing?

[Hammond]
Who cares! Why is it relevant?
You>re asking why people die? No one knows... and it isn>t
relevant to this discussion.

[Christine]
Obviously there are a number of thing we disagree on. Cells stop firing
because they do not function anymore. It is not the other way around. I
would call that rather relevant. It would place the moment at which your
things take place, at a moment when the cells already stopped functioning.

[/quote]
[Hammond]
NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT SO, the Life After Death mechanism I
propose could occur 1-millisecond B-E-F-O-R-E brain death-
and be the last involuntary (reflex) biological act of the
dying brain. the entire Life After Death readout would
require no more than a microsecond at optical frequencies
(Jibu et al) and could contain enout information for 5 YEARS
of subjective experience in the Afterlife. Again your
objections are irrelevant.

[quote][Christine]
Microtubules are polymers tubelike. It is hardware. Tubular structures
areprone to behave like conduits.

[/quote]
[Hammond]
NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT SO. Microtubules are not simply inert
"conduits", they are actually, unbeknownst to you
apparently, "serial string computers" composed of a MILLION
bistable, switchable tubulin dimers per millimeter. the MAP
junctions located every 100 nm or so along the microtubules
act as the I/O connections and link all the microtubules of
the brain together into one mammoth computer.... this has
been fundamental technical dogma in microtubule research for
DECADES!

[quote][Hammond]
All that is common knowlege! There are THOUSANDS of
scientists studying microtubules and publishing thousands of
papers about microtubule function and have been for DECADES!

Indeed. Common knowledge. The computer theory however, is not just as
widely
regarded though. It is understandable that some people come up with a
notion
like that. But it appears from the fast body of research that the
microtubules function as intracellular distribution systems. A system like
that could function as a computer, but not really much more than the wiring
in a radio could function as a computer.

[/quote]
[Hammond]
WRONG.... A "wire" or a pipe" is an inert/passive object
with no moving parts. A microtubule a mm long contains a
BILLION bipolar, on-off switches similar to the switchable
transistors in a conventional computer! These switches are
turned off and on at the nanosecond time scale by the
microwave/optical signals inside the microtubule which are
fed into the microtubule by the MAP conections situated all
along the microtubule. The cytoskeleton has been studied
for DECADES as a MASSIVE biological computer by Hameroff and
many others. Hameroff is an MD by the way and an
anethesiologist, and he and others discovered that
anesthetics (halothane, ether, etc) act by difussing into
the microtubules and switching ALL of the dimers to the off
position at which point the person becomes unconscious.
Happily the procedure is reversible.... a few whiffs of
fresh air and the person recovers consciousness.

[quote][Christine]
To say they have a function is wishful
thinking,

[Hammond]
Oh come off it, stop the handwaving arguments.

With that many Phd scientists studying the "microtubule
computer" for over a decade now, for you to call it "wishful
thinking" doesn>t even rise to credibility much less
professional critisism

You do seem to react here before you understood what i wrote. I did not say
they did not function. I said they did not have a function. Things are.
That>s how nature works. One should not make the mistake of putting a
meaning there where none is. The fact that something functions in a certain
way, does not mean it was meant to function at all.

[/quote]
[Hammond]
we are concerned here only with what the "experts" think and
publish in the peer reviewed literature, not with what line
professional academic hoi paloy gossip about.

[quote]
[Hammond]
I>ll state the well established fact flat out: The
cytoskeleton microtubule system in the neurons of the brain
(and all cells in the body) HAS BEEN SUFFICIENTLY CONFIRMED
EXPERIMENTALLY to function as a computer information
processor with a collective processing speed of 10^15
bits/second. A recent (2005) summary of this can be found
here in one of Hameroff>s recent papers:
http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/Sicily.htm
Note the number of scientists and research studies cited in
this paper!

I can also note the number of scientists you cite. That does not make it
more true. As you well know. It is rather controversial. You should have
noticed that not everybody agrees with you on this issue.

Microtubules are important. Just like any other cell structure is.
Changes
in microtubules, especially in synaptic regions of neurons, are likely
to
have an effect. But it is a bit awkward to overstate their importance.

[Hammond]
When Sir Roger Penrose the world>s leading physicist
writes a book about how they are a computer and publishes
another paper about it in the Philosophical Transactions of
the Royal Society based on experimental research by
Hameroff and dozens of others and the entire research has
been the topic of several large discussion groups, annual
university symposiums (Tuscon) with Sir Roger himself in
attendence and hundreds of published papers and millions of
dollars in research funding-- saying that I am "overstating
the case" is a kudicrous amateur banality on your part and
nothing more.

I do not say you overstate the case. I say that according to you Hammeroff
and Penrose overstate the case. I do think you are right about their
opinions. I do not think you are right about the value of their opinions. I
have a bit of a suspicion the "put creationism into science" lobby is
instrumental in some of the funding, but I did not look into it.

[/quote]
[Hammond]
I>m not a religious or superstitious person and neither
is Frank tipler, we are by the book physicists.
Look Christine I>ve advanced a SIMPLE scientific
mechanism that "CAN" scientifically explain the 5,000 year
"mystery" of the universal belief in Life After Death. The
thesis is simple, supported by experimentql evidence, and
can be judged by any astute scientific mind as to its
"reasonableness, logicalness, and plausibility". It>s as
simple as that.... despite the fact that I have many jealous
as hell detractors such as "TMG" trying to smear me by
labeling me a "mental case" for chrissakes.

[quote]But as I see it, I see people taking the tube post system in a 70>s office
building and determining it to be the computer of the building.

[/quote]
[Hammond]
It>s not a "TUBE POST" system by any stretch of the
imagination..... your analogy is a technical FAUX PAUX of
the first magnitude! Each microtubule is a "string
computer" containing MILLIONS of bi-stable tubulin dimer
switches per millimeter! These tubulin dimers switch state
in nanoseconds and all of the microtubules are wired
together by the interconnecting MAP bridges and the
signalling is connected cell to cell making the entire brain
the most massive and powerful computer known to history..
and its right inside the human brain!
Frank Tipler who is a professor of Mathermatical-Physics
at Tulane and also a collegue of Sir Roger Penrose>s is also
a computer scientist and points out that a "big enough
computer" could "emulate a person". In 1993 when he wrote
_The Physics of Immortality_ the microtubule computer
system was still UNDISCOVERED... so he fantisized about
actually building a galactic sized computer in outer space
that would be big enough to "resurrect" the entire human
race; for chrissakesl!
Of course what Frank tipler didn>t know in 1993 is that
the brain already possesses its own MAMMOTH COMPUTER which
is EASILY big enough to do the trick for a single person and
we DON>T NEED to build a "Resurrection computer in outer
space"..... God already gave each of us our own "Personal
Resurrection Computer" built into our heads at birth!

[quote]As for computing on other peculiar objects: Anthills are used to base
information systems on. (University of Bologna). I guess the connection
between the microtubule system inside cells, is more like an anthill that
like a computer. And that goes back to the difference of meaning in the
structure and meaning in its actual setting.

[/quote]
[Hammond]
Wrong again... the microtuble system is now KNOWN to be the
worlds single largest and most powerful computer.

[quote]Christine!

[/quote]
[Hammond]
Talk to me Christine... you>re one of the albest minds I>ve
run into in years. Boy that story about the ant hills
really takes the cake!

========================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
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GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
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========================================

jjs · Guest

"George Hammond" <Nowhere1@notspam.org> wrote in message
news:UNeri.6276$ug4.4644@trndny07...

[quote][Christine]
Microtubules are polymers tubelike. It is hardware. Tubular structures
areprone to behave like conduits.

[Hammond]
NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT SO. Microtubules are not simply inert
"conduits", they are actually, unbeknownst to you
apparently, "serial string computers" composed of a MILLION
bistable, switchable tubulin dimers per millimeter. the MAP
junctions located every 100 nm or so along the microtubules
act as the I/O connections and link all the microtubules of
the brain together into one mammoth computer.... this has
been fundamental technical dogma in microtubule research for
DECADES!
[/quote]
I am not up-to-date with the outcome, if there was one, in Penrose>s theory
that the microtubles can interact with Quantum space. As I recall, he found
they might be small/narrow enough, but there was a question regarding the
fluid inside them and whether they could sustain (however briefly) a quantum
state.

Any word on that?

Thanks in advance,

George Hammond · Guest

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:56:42 -0500, "jjs"
<jjs@stop.right.there.net> wrote:

[quote]
"George Hammond" <Nowhere1@notspam.org> wrote in message
news:UNeri.6276$ug4.4644@trndny07...

[Christine]
Microtubules are polymers tubelike. It is hardware. Tubular structures
areprone to behave like conduits.

[Hammond]
NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT SO. Microtubules are not simply inert
"conduits", they are actually, unbeknownst to you
apparently, "serial string computers" composed of a MILLION
bistable, switchable tubulin dimers per millimeter. the MAP
junctions located every 100 nm or so along the microtubules
act as the I/O connections and link all the microtubules of
the brain together into one mammoth computer.... this has
been fundamental technical dogma in microtubule research for
DECADES!

[jjs]
I am not up-to-date with the outcome, if there was one, in Penrose>s theory
that the microtubles can interact with Quantum space. As I recall, he found
they might be small/narrow enough, but there was a question regarding the
fluid inside them and whether they could sustain (however briefly) a quantum
state.

Any word on that?

Thanks in advance, jjs

[/quote]
[Hammond]
Penrose put microtubule computers on the map in 1994--
that>s 13 long years ago. Since then the research has been
enormous and the conclusion is now very firm at this point
that YES the microtubule system is a massive intra/intercell
computer conducting BOTH classical and quantum computing at
the rate of nearly 10^15 bits/second and having an intrinsic
memory at least as large.
Stuart Hameeroff told me that he overheard Sir Roger at a
recent conference say that a microtubule is "... just large
enough for a massless exchange boson to travel right down
the center like a rifle bullet..". the evidence now shows
that there are MULTIPLE computer switching mechanisms taking
place in the microtubule dimers including:

* There is classical sequential dimer switching
* That there are EM infrared standing waves
(superradiance, Jibu et. al) inside the
microtubules.
* Dimer switching due to electron tunneling
(Frolich microwave frequency)
in the double-dimer potential well
* That the tubulin MAPS are clearly the I/O structure
of the computer.
* That there is Phonon transmission also.

All of this has taken a new twist and relevance vis a vis
FRANK TIPLER>S ubiquitous 1994 publication _The Physics of
Immortality_ in which he demonstrated that a "large enough"
computer could "emulate a human being" and thereby provide a
"cybernetic Resurrection" and "computerized Afterlife". Of
course he didn>t know where such a mammoth computer could be
found and naievly proposed that we BUILD ONE in outer
space... for which he became the laughing stock of the
scientific community. HOWEVER.... since he wrote the book,
the MAMMOTH MICROTUBULE COMPUTER in the brain has been
DISCOVERED (by Penrose and Hameroff and many others)... and
CONSEQUENTLY, HAMMOND has now proposed that Tipler>s
mythical computer HAS BEEN FOUND and we don>t need to look
any further than the microptubule system in the brain.....
AND THEREFORE..... there is a darn good chance that the
microtubule computer ACTUALLY DOES "resurrect" us moments
after death in a "super version of a Lucid Dream".... and
hence..... the entire Christian theory of "Heaven" is in
fact CORRECT.
Needless to say people are buzzing on the Internet about
this development? And I personally am trying to get in
touch with Frank Tipler!
========================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
========================================

jjs · Guest

George Hammond wrote:

[quote]Penrose put microtubule computers on the map in 1994--
that>s 13 long years ago. Since then the research has been
enormous [...]
[/quote]

Me gosh, you are right. Time is going so quickly past me.

[... snip good stuff, thank you...]

George Hammond · Guest

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:14:54 -0500, jjs
<jj.nowhere.universe> wrote:

[quote]George Hammond wrote:

Penrose put microtubule computers on the map in 1994--
that>s 13 long years ago. Since then the research has been
enormous [...]

Me gosh, you are right. Time is going so quickly past me.
[/quote]
[Hammond]
The principle phenomenological manifestation of God is a
subjective time dilation...try being a little more
curious.... it slows down time.

========================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
========================================

jjs · Guest

"George Hammond" <Nowhere1@notspam.net> wrote in message
news:p5sua3pc1bfruv2bpgvf84cd8dg3ol8mqb@4ax.com...

[quote]HOWEVER.... since he wrote the book,
the MAMMOTH MICROTUBULE COMPUTER in the brain has been
DISCOVERED (by Penrose and Hameroff and many others)... and
CONSEQUENTLY, HAMMOND has now proposed that Tipler>s
mythical computer HAS BEEN FOUND and we don>t need to look
any further than the microptubule system in the brain.....
AND THEREFORE..... there is a darn good chance that the
microtubule computer ACTUALLY DOES "resurrect" us moments
after death in a "super version of a Lucid Dream"
[/quote]
I don>t follow the leap that concludes that the computer has been found. Do
you mean that if/because the human brain has an interface to quantum
space/time that it necessarily follows that there is a computer 'out there'
(or somewhere) that assimulates the human>s mind after death and holds it
forever?

George Hammond · Guest

On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 13:31:25 -0500, "jjs"
<jjs@stop.right.there.net> wrote:

[quote]
"George Hammond" <Nowhere1@notspam.net> wrote in message
news:p5sua3pc1bfruv2bpgvf84cd8dg3ol8mqb@4ax.com...

[Hammond
HOWEVER.... since he wrote the book,
the MAMMOTH MICROTUBULE COMPUTER in the brain has been
DISCOVERED (by Penrose and Hameroff and many others)... and
CONSEQUENTLY, HAMMOND has now proposed that Tipler>s
mythical computer HAS BEEN FOUND and we don>t need to look
any further than the microptubule system in the brain.....
AND THEREFORE..... there is a darn good chance that the
microtubule computer ACTUALLY DOES "resurrect" us moments
after death in a "super version of a Lucid Dream"

[jjs]
I don>t follow the leap that concludes that the computer has been found. Do
you mean that if/because the human brain has an interface to quantum
space/time that it necessarily follows that there is a computer 'out there'
(or somewhere) that assimulates the human>s mind after death and holds it
forever?

[/quote]
[Hammond]
Frank Tipler wrote his notoriously celebrated book _The
Physics of Immortality_ B-E-F-O-R-E the existence of the
"microtubule computer" inside the human brain was discovered
and mad famous by Sir Roger Penrose and Dr. Stuart Hameroff!
Tipler, for his part however, had scientifically
established that a "big enough computer could emulate a
person" and therefore could in theory "cybernetically
Resurrect" a person AFTER DEATH! Tipler>s dilemma was that
no large enough computer existed at the time to do it... so
he proposed building one in outer space... for which he was
roundly ridiculed by the scientific community.
MEANWHILE of course, Penrose and Hameroff had stumbled on
the existence of the MAMMOTH MICROTUBULE COMPUTER already
extant right inside the cells of the human brain.
SO.... Hammond is here to merely point out.....that

TIPLER>S RESURRECTION COMPUTER HAS BEEN FOUND

and it>s not "OUT THERE" in outer space..... it>s right "IN
HERE" inside the human brain cells..... just like St. Paul
said it was in the first place!
Of course Tipler doesn>t REALIZE this because:

1. He doesn>t clearly understand what God is to begin with.

2. He doesn>t clearly understand what Eternal Life is
either:
(I.e. he doesn>t realize that 'Eternal Life' is
a SPEEDOMETER reading (a time dilation),
not an ODOMETER reading (a time span).

SO OK... we can>t expect an internationally famous
Professor of Mathematical-Physics to also be a genius
Theologian and Psychologist (altho he>s head and shouders
above most physicists). HOWEVER, because he is UNAWARE of
the basic scientific elements of Religion and went off half
cocked, he simply hasn>t recognized that a 10^15 bits/second
microtubule computer CAN EASILY play back a lifetime-
prerecorded dream of "Life After Death", and it is NOT
NECESSARY to build his HUMONG0US 10^10^123 bits/sec
ASTRONIMACAL sized computer he thought necessary to "emulate
all possible possible human beings" in order to save us!

Thanks for you interest.

========================================
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========================================

jjs · Guest

"George Hammond" <Nowhere1@notspam.net> wrote in message
news:cut1b35fbkr6t43e93hkmect836hetdqdj@4ax.com...

[quote][Hammond]
[...]
Tipler, for his part however, had scientifically
established that a "big enough computer could emulate a
person" and therefore could in theory "cybernetically
Resurrect" a person AFTER DEATH!
[/quote]
If I recall properly, he made the more detailed version of that assertion
half-way into the book, and preceded it with something like, "I now ask the
reader to suspend disbelief."

[quote]SO.... Hammond is here to merely point out.....that

TIPLER>S RESURRECTION COMPUTER HAS BEEN FOUND

and it>s not "OUT THERE" in outer space..... it>s right "IN
HERE" inside the human brain cells..... just like St. Paul
said it was in the first place!
[/quote]
Might that also relate to, or account for the possibility of reincarnation
into a newborn>s brain?

George Hammond · Guest

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 13:03:55 -0500, "jjs"
<jjs@stop.right.there.net> wrote:

[quote]
"George Hammond" <Nowhere1@notspam.net> wrote in message
news:cut1b35fbkr6t43e93hkmect836hetdqdj@4ax.com...

[Hammond]
[...]
Tipler, for his part however, had scientifically
established that a "big enough computer could emulate a
person" and therefore could in theory "cybernetically
Resurrect" a person AFTER DEATH!

If I recall properly, he made the more detailed version of that assertion
half-way into the book, and preceded it with something like, "I now ask the
reader to suspend disbelief."

SO.... Hammond is here to merely point out.....that

TIPLER>S RESURRECTION COMPUTER HAS BEEN FOUND

and it>s not "OUT THERE" in outer space..... it>s right "IN
HERE" inside the human brain cells..... just like St. Paul
said it was in the first place!

Might that also relate to, or account for the possibility of reincarnation
into a newborn>s brain?

[/quote]
[Hammond]
Na...... "Reincarnation" is a METAPHOR AND political
CAVEAT used to remind the low birthrate middle and upper
classes that the poor people of the world ENJOY A FABULOUS
AND LUXURIOUS BIRTHRATE having as many as 15 or 20 kids at a
whack. The BIRTHRATE is the principle WEAPON of the lower
classes against the upper classes, in case you haven>t
noticed... expecially in INDIA where so called
"Reincarnation" was invented . Poor people worship "family"
e.g. childbirth, and boast about it constantly.
Na..... the "spiritual body" of the Afterlife is
Resurrected right within your OWN BRAIN within split seconds
of your own death.... or as St. Paul put it "at the last
trump, in the twinkling of an eye". And it is the
MICROTUBULE brain computer which does it... and we can thank
Sir Roger Penrose, Dr. Stuart Hameroff and Prof. Frank
Tipler, and yours truly, for discovering the scientific
mechanism of Life After Death!

PS: I appreciate your on-topic posts.

========================================
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Barb Knox · Guest

In article <p2e4b35qc4t0f6khea764ke61imbjhh7m2@4ax.com>,
George Hammond <Nowhere1@notspam.net> wrote:
[snip]

[quote][T]he "spiritual body" of the Afterlife is
Resurrected right within your OWN BRAIN within split seconds
of your own death.... or as St. Paul put it "at the last
trump, in the twinkling of an eye". And it is the
MICROTUBULE brain computer which does it... and we can thank
Sir Roger Penrose, Dr. Stuart Hameroff and Prof. Frank
Tipler, and yours truly, for discovering the scientific
mechanism of Life After Death!
[/quote]
So, according to your view a brain has two different processing modes:
normal (when alive) and super-fast microtubule (when recently dead).
This raises some obvious questions:

(1) If brains can operate in super-fast mode, why do we bother at all
with the much slower normal mode? What>s the evolutionary point of
having all that processing power and not using it for real life?

(2) Do people who die from massive traumatic brain injury get to
participate in your form of afterlife?

(3) Even if the dying brain, running super-fast, can provide many
subjective years (or millennia) of hallucinatory dreams, it cannot
provide any new sensory or social inputs. Wouldn>t you get really
really really bored interacting with just your own recycled dream
figments for millennia? Or do you also posit some sort of
trans-personal microtubular telepathy?

And BTW, your exegesis of Paul is thoroughly off-base. The return of
Jesus was expected to change the world all at once, not one individual
at a time (whenever they died).

--
---------------------------
| BBB b \ Barbara at LivingHistory stop co stop uk
| B B aa rrr b |
| BBB a a r bbb | Quidquid latine dictum sit,
| B B a a r b b | altum viditur.
| BBB aa a r bbb |
-----------------------------

jjs · Guest

Barb Knox wrote:

[quote]So, according to your view a brain has two different processing modes:
normal (when alive) and super-fast microtubule (when recently dead).
This raises some obvious questions:

(1) If brains can operate in super-fast mode, why do we bother at all
with the much slower normal mode? What>s the evolutionary point of
having all that processing power and not using it for real life?
[/quote]
Good question, Ms. Knox. It could be that "we bother... with slow modes"
because we are hardwired that way. We do not have the rest of the
hardware to make it Real Time, perhaps not evolved enough. Our human
chemistry is rather slow. "It is not how well the bear dances, but that
the bear dances at all." :)

[quote](2) Do people who die from massive traumatic brain injury get to
participate in your form of afterlife?
[/quote]
Good one! I look forward to the response.

[quote](3) Even if the dying brain, running super-fast, can provide many
subjective years (or millennia) of hallucinatory dreams, it cannot
provide any new sensory or social inputs.
[/quote]
In other words, pure play-back. I suspect our friend will find that in
that space the mind will be in quantum space so that it can find
feedback among the others who are there, who have been there.

But I>m a science fiction writer... :)

[quote]And BTW, your exegesis of Paul is thoroughly off-base. [...]
[/quote]
Yes, Ham would do well to avoid such references.

Very good to read your post!

jjs

George Hammond · Guest

On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 11:42:17 +1200, Barb Knox
<see@sig.below> wrote:

[quote]In article <p2e4b35qc4t0f6khea764ke61imbjhh7m2@4ax.com>,
George Hammond <Nowhere1@notspam.net> wrote:
[snip]

[T]he "spiritual body" of the Afterlife is
Resurrected right within your OWN BRAIN within split seconds
of your own death.... or as St. Paul put it "at the last
trump, in the twinkling of an eye". And it is the
MICROTUBULE brain computer which does it... and we can thank
Sir Roger Penrose, Dr. Stuart Hameroff and Prof. Frank
Tipler, and yours truly, for discovering the scientific
mechanism of Life After Death!

So, according to your view a brain has two different processing modes:
normal (when alive) and super-fast microtubule (when recently dead).
This raises some obvious questions:

[/quote]
[Hammond]
Your observation is correct..... there are "two brains"
(a brain within a brain).... the microtubule system is a
"micro-servous system" located INSIDE EACH BRAIN CELL.
But don>t for a minute assume this micro-brain is not
WORKING during ordinary everyday life... it SURE IS! sensory
input is analyzed (processed) FIRST by the microtubule
system, and when the results are computed, they are fed to
the "macro-brain" (the ordinary NEURONAL SYSTEM that we know
and love) where it gets PRESENTED to our consciousness.
It has been known for years that the NEURONAL BRAIN had a
processing speed (capacity) of 10^15 bits/sec. What
Hameroff and Penrose have discovered is that the mico-brain
adds an ADDITIONAL capacity of another 10^15 bits/sec, so
that the total processing speed of the brain is actually
10^30 bits/sec.
All I>m pointing out is that this ADDITIONAL computing
power makes TIPLER>S "Computer Resurrection" to the
Afterlife a REAL WORLD CREDIBLE THEORY for the first time in
history.

[quote](1) If brains can operate in super-fast mode, why do we bother at all
with the much slower normal mode? What>s the evolutionary point of
having all that processing power and not using it for real life?

[/quote]
[Hammond]
We DO USE IT all the time, every waking moment. the NEW
THEORY HERE is that when we DIE, the brain (naturally)
shuts down from the top-down..... first the NEURONAL system
shuts down (popularly called "EEG FLATLINE")... then the
next thing that happens is that the MICROTUBULE system shuts
down, but believe it or not, due to all that whole lifetime
of computer processing, it has STORED a precomputed and
STORE "super-Lucid dream" which "downloads" from the
microtubule memory (like downloading a video movie on your
computer, and this movie is "LIFE AFTER DEATH" so called.
And by the way, the Afterlife doesn>t last millions and
billions of years.... don>t be stupid..... what would a
person DO foe a billion years? No.... "ETERNAL LIFE" means
that we reach "real time" not 'infinite time" for
chrissakes! "eternal Life" is NOT "perpetual life" (as
tipler, and you, and almost EVERY LAY PERSON believes.
Eternal Life means reaching REAL TIME which is also called
"Beatific Vision" and it is DE FACTO a condition of
"Immortality" (100% Life).
Finally, I appreciate your patience, and do not think you
are stupid..... it is just that the average amateur has a
lot to learn before he (or she) can carry on an intelligent
conversation in these areas.

[quote](2) Do people who die from massive traumatic brain injury get to
participate in your form of afterlife?

[/quote]
[Hammond]
Yes.... even a peerson who gets his head blown off with a
cannonball in a millisecond has time to "get to Heaven"...
in fact, the FASTEST that a person can die is about
1-nanosecond.... because that>s how long it takes a light
beam to cross the human head and destroy the brain (an
A-Bomb blast for instance). Even THEN... the microtuble
readout of the "lucid death dream" is FAST ENOUGH to allow
you to get to heaven for at least 10 seconds (my estimate)
which is LONG ENOUGH to achieve "eternal life". Fro the
ordinary pedestrian death, the average person will spend,
say, 5 years in Heaven.

[quote](3) Even if the dying brain, running super-fast, can provide many
subjective years (or millennia) of hallucinatory dreams,
[/quote]
[Hammond]
We don>t live for "millenia" for chrissakes.... that>s a
fairy tale we tell kids because they can>t tell the
difference between an ODOMETER and a SPEEDOMETER. "Eternal
Life" is a condition of FLAT SUBJECTIVE SPACETIME not a
condition of "PERPETUAL TIME"... it is only called
"perpetual time" because the average person is INCAPABLE OF
UNDERSTANDING what a "variable clock rate" is.... and can>t
comprehend that WE are living in DILATED TIME but in heaven
there is ZERO TIME DILATION.

[quote]it cannot
provide any new sensory or social inputs.
[/quote]
[Hammond]
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG..... A THOUSAND TIMES WRONG!!!!
The ENTIRE PURPOSE of "going to Heaven" is to SEE a
COMPLETELY ALTERED SENSORY INPUT (VISION) of the world
called the "Beatific Vision" by THEOLOGIANS, and called
"Flat subjective spacetime" by the PHYSICISTS. Its the
difference between eating a T-bone steak and eating the bark
off a tree!

[quote]Wouldn>t you get really
really really bored interacting with just your own recycled dream
figments for millennia?
[/quote]
[Hammond]
A. The Afterlife only lasts between 10 seconds and 10
years, depending on circumstances. NO WAY does it
last decades, centuries, millenia, or millions of
years!

B. The ENTIRE PURPOSE of the Afterlife is to see the world
with "perfect vision".... (flat spacetime/Beatific
Vision).... of COURSE it would be stupid and naive to
just live the same life all over again.... how boring!

[quote]Or do you also posit some sort of
trans-personal microtubular telepathy?

[/quote]
[Hammond]
Na, na, na.... no FANTASIMICAL STUFF PLEASE.... I>m a by the
book physicist.... nothing FANCY please!

[quote]And BTW, your exegesis of Paul is thoroughly off-base. The return of
Jesus was expected to change the world all at once, not one individual
at a time (whenever they died).
[/quote]
[Hammond]
I>m an expert in Biblical exegesis AND theoretical
physics.... believe me I don>t have time to talk to amateurs
with a little bit of knowlege who are looking
for an argument, for chrissakes!
either stay ON-TOPIC and don>t try to argue with me
unless you can demonstrate superior education.... or take a
hike... I>ll killfile anyone who wants to tete atete in a
heartbeat!
I don>t have much respect for people who don>t have a LOT
of formal learning under their belt, believe you me, 30 year
old PhD>s don>t impress me much! Amateurs even less!

========================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
========================================

TMG · Guest

George Hammond wrote:

[quote][Hammond]
I>m an expert in Biblical exegesis AND theoretical
physics.... believe me I don>t have time to talk to amateurs
with a little bit of knowlege who are looking
for an argument, for chrissakes!
[/quote]
He>s raving. AN EXPERT in this and that! Crazy as the common
out-house-mouse.

[quote]either stay ON-TOPIC and don>t try to argue with me
unless you can demonstrate superior education.... or take a
hike... I>ll killfile anyone who wants to tete atete in a
heartbeat!
[/quote]

OHHH - the dreaded killfile. I>m number 1 in George>s killfile. He
responds to me all the time. His "killfile" is made up crap, that he
doesn>t even understand.

[quote]I don>t have much respect for people .
[/quote]
Yep.


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