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Matt Giwer
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 Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the Old |
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Note it lacks ANY connection whatsoever to anyone who might have operated the
mine. But here it is, a neutral discovery with a bible story woven around it.
That is all it takes to convince bible thumpers and other assorted idiots.
Daily Mail, England
Tuesday, Oct 28 2008
Solomon>s real mine? 3,000 years on, archaeologists uncover fabled site in
desert
By David Derbyshire
Last updated at 11:17 AM on 28th October 2008
In a discovery straight out of an Indiana Jones movie, archaeologists
believe they have uncovered one of the lost mines of King Solomon.
The vast copper mine lies in an arid valley in modern-day Jordan and was
created in the 10th century BC - around the time Solomon is believed to
have ruled over the ancient Hebrews.
The mines are enormous and would have generated a huge income for the king,
who is famed for bringing extraordinary wealth and stability to the
newly-united kingdom of Israel and Judah.
Ancient: The outline of a large square fortress and more than 100 smaller
buildings at Khirbat en-Nahas. The black slag indicates large-scale copper
production occurred here
Ancient: The outline of a large square fortress and more than 100 smaller
buildings at Khirbat en-Nahas. The black slag indicates large-scale copper
production occurred here
The announcement will today reopen the debate about how much of the Old
Testament is myth and how much is history.
According to the Bible, Solomon was the third king of Israel. The son of
King David, he was renowned for his wisdom, the size of his harem and the
splendour of his kingdom.
During his reign, he is said to have accumulated a huge fortune from mining
and trading, some of which was spent on building the grand temple and
opulent palace of Jerusalem.
Archaeologists and treasure-hunters have searched for the mines for more
than a century since the best-selling Victorian novel, King Solomon>s Mines
by H Rider Haggard, claimed they could hold a treasure of gold and diamonds.
But now, it seems the real version could have been closer to home, supplying
the king with copper.
Powerful: King Solomon supervises the building of a temple - archaeologists
believe they have uncovered one of his lost mines
Powerful: King Solomon supervises the building of a temple - archaeologists
believe they have uncovered one of his lost mines
The ancient mine was found in a desolate region south of the Dead Sea in
southern Jordan in an area called Khirbat en-Nahas, which means 'ruins of
copper' in Arabic.
The region was known in the Old Testament as the Kingdom of Edom. By
Solomon>s time, it had become a vassal state, paying tribute to Jerusalem.
Digs at the site in the 1970s and 1980s suggested metalworking began there
in the 7th century, long after the time of Solomon.
But Dr Thomas Levy, of the University of California, San Diego, and Mohammed
Najjar, of Jordan>s Friends of Archaeology, have dated it to the 10th
century BC.
Dr Levy said: 'We have evidence that complex societies were indeed active in
the 10th and 9th centuries BC and that brings us back to the debate about
the historicity of the Bible narratives related to this period.
'We can>t believe everything ancient writings tell us. But this research
represents a confluence between the archaeological and scientific data and
the Bible.'
The ancient site contains around 100 buildings, including a fortress, in the
middle of 24 acres of land covered in black slag. The mine works are covered
with trials and holes, and are big enough to be seen on Google Earth>s
satellite images.
The team also found ancient Egyptian artifacts at the site including a
scarab and amulet from the 10th century BC.
When Solomon died, his kingdom was thrown into chaos and the Pharaoh
Sheshonq is believed to have attempted to crush economic activity.
The findings are reported in today>s issue of Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences.
--
If abortion is murder the woman should receive
the death penalty.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4074
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo/ a8 |
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Martin Edwards
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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Matt Giwer wrote:
[quote]Note it lacks ANY connection whatsoever to anyone who might have
operated the mine. But here it is, a neutral discovery with a bible
story woven around it. That is all it takes to convince bible thumpers
and other assorted idiots.
Daily Mail, England
Tuesday, Oct 28 2008
Solomon>s real mine? 3,000 years on, archaeologists uncover fabled site in
desert
By David Derbyshire
Last updated at 11:17 AM on 28th October 2008
In a discovery straight out of an Indiana Jones movie, archaeologists
believe they have uncovered one of the lost mines of King Solomon.
The vast copper mine lies in an arid valley in modern-day Jordan and was
created in the 10th century BC - around the time Solomon is believed to
have ruled over the ancient Hebrews.
The mines are enormous and would have generated a huge income for the king,
who is famed for bringing extraordinary wealth and stability to the
newly-united kingdom of Israel and Judah.
Ancient: The outline of a large square fortress and more than 100 smaller
buildings at Khirbat en-Nahas. The black slag indicates large-scale copper
production occurred here
Ancient: The outline of a large square fortress and more than 100 smaller
buildings at Khirbat en-Nahas. The black slag indicates large-scale copper
production occurred here
The announcement will today reopen the debate about how much of the Old
Testament is myth and how much is history.
According to the Bible, Solomon was the third king of Israel. The son of
King David, he was renowned for his wisdom, the size of his harem and the
splendour of his kingdom.
During his reign, he is said to have accumulated a huge fortune from mining
and trading, some of which was spent on building the grand temple and
opulent palace of Jerusalem.
Archaeologists and treasure-hunters have searched for the mines for more
than a century since the best-selling Victorian novel, King Solomon>s Mines
by H Rider Haggard, claimed they could hold a treasure of gold and
diamonds.
But now, it seems the real version could have been closer to home,
supplying
the king with copper.
Powerful: King Solomon supervises the building of a temple - archaeologists
believe they have uncovered one of his lost mines
Powerful: King Solomon supervises the building of a temple - archaeologists
believe they have uncovered one of his lost mines
The ancient mine was found in a desolate region south of the Dead Sea in
southern Jordan in an area called Khirbat en-Nahas, which means 'ruins of
copper' in Arabic.
The region was known in the Old Testament as the Kingdom of Edom. By
Solomon>s time, it had become a vassal state, paying tribute to Jerusalem.
Digs at the site in the 1970s and 1980s suggested metalworking began there
in the 7th century, long after the time of Solomon.
But Dr Thomas Levy, of the University of California, San Diego, and
Mohammed
Najjar, of Jordan>s Friends of Archaeology, have dated it to the 10th
century BC.
Dr Levy said: 'We have evidence that complex societies were indeed
active in
the 10th and 9th centuries BC and that brings us back to the debate about
the historicity of the Bible narratives related to this period.
'We can>t believe everything ancient writings tell us. But this research
represents a confluence between the archaeological and scientific data and
the Bible.'
The ancient site contains around 100 buildings, including a fortress, in
the
middle of 24 acres of land covered in black slag. The mine works are
covered
with trials and holes, and are big enough to be seen on Google Earth>s
satellite images.
The team also found ancient Egyptian artifacts at the site including a
scarab and amulet from the 10th century BC.
When Solomon died, his kingdom was thrown into chaos and the Pharaoh
Sheshonq is believed to have attempted to crush economic activity.
The findings are reported in today>s issue of Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences.
Sorry to bang on about History Channel, but they did it again last night[/quote]
(in UK). An otherwise exemplary programme about the reign of Tiberius
then flashed back to the birth of Jesus in the previous reign and did
the whole Judea-in-turmoil, Jesus upset the collaborators, they made
Pilate croak him etc narrative. Incidentally a very recent work by
Martin Gilbert argues that Judea was peaceful, and only kicked off in 70
CE because of the incompetence of the governor of the time.
--
Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it
has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management
decisions. -From “Rollerball” |
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Kendall K Down
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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In message <4907d47c$0$17056$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:
[quote]But Dr Thomas Levy, of the University of California, San Diego, and Mohammed
Najjar, of Jordan>s Friends of Archaeology, have dated it to the 10th
century BC.
Dr Levy said: 'We have evidence that complex societies were indeed active in
the 10th and 9th centuries BC and that brings us back to the debate about
the historicity of the Bible narratives related to this period.
'We can>t believe everything ancient writings tell us. But this research
represents a confluence between the archaeological and scientific data and
the Bible.'
[/quote]
Poor old Matt the Pratt. How it burns his heart to find that scholars
take the Bible seriously - not, as he attempts to caricature, by
accepting every word as divinely inspired, but by treating it as
historical.
[quote]The findings are reported in today>s issue of Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences.
[/quote]
Isn>t that awful? Imagine, support for the Bible as history in a
proper scientific journal. Published>n>all.
Give up, Matt the Pratt. The facts are against you.
Ken Down
--
================ ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIGGINGS ===============
| Australia>s premier archaeological magazine |
| http://www.diggingsonline.com |
======================================================== |
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Kendall K Down
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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In message <CFUNk.144646$Qh1.75760@newsfe30.ams2>
Martin Edwards <big_mart_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]Sorry to bang on about History Channel, but they did it again last night
(in UK). An otherwise exemplary programme about the reign of Tiberius
then flashed back to the birth of Jesus in the previous reign and did
the whole Judea-in-turmoil, Jesus upset the collaborators, they made
Pilate croak him etc narrative. Incidentally a very recent work by
Martin Gilbert argues that Judea was peaceful, and only kicked off in 70
CE because of the incompetence of the governor of the time.
[/quote]
Ah, Deputy Dawg hanging onto his hero>s coattails.
Ken Down
--
================ ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIGGINGS ===============
| Australia>s premier archaeological magazine |
| http://www.diggingsonline.com |
======================================================== |
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Matt Giwer
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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Martin Edwards wrote:
....
[quote]Sorry to bang on about History Channel, but they did it again last night
(in UK). An otherwise exemplary programme about the reign of Tiberius
then flashed back to the birth of Jesus in the previous reign and did
the whole Judea-in-turmoil, Jesus upset the collaborators, they made
Pilate croak him etc narrative. Incidentally a very recent work by
Martin Gilbert argues that Judea was peaceful, and only kicked off in 70
CE because of the incompetence of the governor of the time.
[/quote]
The Jesus thing is clearly off topic. Also the entire revolt thing is not a
bible issue. Judea-in-turmoil is not found in the bible. So not only is
Tiberius embellished with bible stories but the bible stories are embellished
with material not found in the bible. Another example of the power of modern
myth.
--
Hodie tertio Kalendas Octobres MMVIII est
-- The Ferric Webcaesar
http://www.giwersworld.org a1 |
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Matt Giwer
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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Kendall K Down wrote:
[quote]In message <4907d47c$0$17056$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:
But Dr Thomas Levy, of the University of California, San Diego, and Mohammed
Najjar, of Jordan>s Friends of Archaeology, have dated it to the 10th
century BC.
Dr Levy said: 'We have evidence that complex societies were indeed active in
the 10th and 9th centuries BC and that brings us back to the debate about
the historicity of the Bible narratives related to this period.
'We can>t believe everything ancient writings tell us. But this research
represents a confluence between the archaeological and scientific data and
the Bible.'
Poor old Matt the Pratt. How it burns his heart to find that scholars
take the Bible seriously - not, as he attempts to caricature, by
accepting every word as divinely inspired, but by treating it as
historical.
The findings are reported in today>s issue of Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences.
Isn>t that awful? Imagine, support for the Bible as history in a
proper scientific journal. Published>n>all.
Give up, Matt the Pratt. The facts are against you.
[/quote]
The bible stuff is not in the journal.
The facts are very clear.
"The team also found ancient Egyptian artifacts at the site including a
scarab and amulet from the 10th century BC."
The only artifacts found there which possibly result in an earlier date are
Egyptian. Considering Egypt ruled bibleland in the 10th c. BC the mine was, by
all the presently available evidence, an Egyptian enterprise.
You are free to present something connecting it with Solomon any time you are
up to it.
--
God is a single parent who sent his son to earth on a suicide mission.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4065
http://www.giwersworld.org/palestine/answers.phtml a9 |
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Martin Edwards
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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Kendall K Down wrote:
[quote]In message <CFUNk.144646$Qh1.75760@newsfe30.ams2
Martin Edwards <big_mart_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sorry to bang on about History Channel, but they did it again last night
(in UK). An otherwise exemplary programme about the reign of Tiberius
then flashed back to the birth of Jesus in the previous reign and did
the whole Judea-in-turmoil, Jesus upset the collaborators, they made
Pilate croak him etc narrative. Incidentally a very recent work by
Martin Gilbert argues that Judea was peaceful, and only kicked off in 70
CE because of the incompetence of the governor of the time.
Ah, Deputy Dawg hanging onto his hero>s coattails.
Ken Down
I know you don>t see too well, Vince, but check it out if you got cable[/quote]
anywhere near your dig.
--
Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it
has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management
decisions. -From Rollerball |
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Martin Edwards
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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Matt Giwer wrote:
[quote]Martin Edwards wrote:
...
Sorry to bang on about History Channel, but they did it again last
night (in UK). An otherwise exemplary programme about the reign of
Tiberius then flashed back to the birth of Jesus in the previous reign
and did the whole Judea-in-turmoil, Jesus upset the collaborators,
they made Pilate croak him etc narrative. Incidentally a very recent
work by Martin Gilbert argues that Judea was peaceful, and only kicked
off in 70 CE because of the incompetence of the governor of the time.
The Jesus thing is clearly off topic. Also the entire revolt thing
is not a bible issue. Judea-in-turmoil is not found in the bible. So not
only is Tiberius embellished with bible stories but the bible stories
are embellished with material not found in the bible. Another example of
the power of modern myth.
They get their real history from the estimable Andrew Wallace-Hadrill,[/quote]
then interview some professor of "Bible History" as if s/he were an
academic in the same way, which of course they are not. It may be that
Wallace-Hadrill does not even know what is in the rest of the programme.
--
Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it
has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management
decisions. -From “Rollerball” |
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Martin Edwards
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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Kendall K Down wrote:
[quote]In message <4907d47c$0$17056$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:
But Dr Thomas Levy, of the University of California, San Diego, and Mohammed
Najjar, of Jordan>s Friends of Archaeology, have dated it to the 10th
century BC.
Dr Levy said: 'We have evidence that complex societies were indeed active in
the 10th and 9th centuries BC and that brings us back to the debate about
the historicity of the Bible narratives related to this period.
'We can>t believe everything ancient writings tell us. But this research
represents a confluence between the archaeological and scientific data and
the Bible.'
Poor old Matt the Pratt. How it burns his heart to find that scholars
take the Bible seriously - not, as he attempts to caricature, by
accepting every word as divinely inspired, but by treating it as
historical.
The findings are reported in today>s issue of Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences.
Isn>t that awful? Imagine, support for the Bible as history in a
proper scientific journal. Published>n>all.
Give up, Matt the Pratt. The facts are against you.
Ken Down
See the reply which should come in above.[/quote]
--
Corporate society looks after everything. All it asks of anyone, all it
has ever asked of anyone, is that they do not interfere with management
decisions. -From Rollerball |
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Kendall K Down
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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In message <49093e21$0$4949$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:
[quote]"The team also found ancient Egyptian artifacts at the site including a
scarab and amulet from the 10th century BC."
The only artifacts found there which possibly result in an earlier date are
Egyptian.
[/quote]
Do you know what the word "also" means, Matt the Pratt?
Ken Down
--
================ ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIGGINGS ===============
| Australia>s premier archaeological magazine |
| http://www.diggingsonline.com |
======================================================== |
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SolomonW
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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In article <49093e21$0$4949$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, jull43
@tampabay.REMover.rr.com says...
[quote] The only artifacts found there which possibly result in an earlier date are
Egyptian.
[/quote]
No there is radiocarbon dating on date seeds, sticks of tamarisk and
other woods used for charcoal in smelting (along with Bayesian analysis)
to obtain the 10th- and 9th-century BCE dates.
[quote]Considering Egypt ruled bibleland in the 10th c. BC the mine was, by
all the presently available evidence, an Egyptian enterprise.
[/quote]
The only Egyptian rulers in the 10th century BCE was Pharaoh Sheshonq I
(aka "Shishak" in the Bible). He only was in the region only for a short
period of time.
[quote] You are free to present something connecting it with Solomon any time you are
up to it.
[/quote]
We can say that a complex societies was indeed active in 10th and 9th
centuries BCE in Edom. |
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Matt Giwer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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Martin Edwards wrote:
[quote]Matt Giwer wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
...
Sorry to bang on about History Channel, but they did it again last
night (in UK). An otherwise exemplary programme about the reign of
Tiberius then flashed back to the birth of Jesus in the previous
reign and did the whole Judea-in-turmoil, Jesus upset the
collaborators, they made Pilate croak him etc narrative.
Incidentally a very recent work by Martin Gilbert argues that Judea
was peaceful, and only kicked off in 70 CE because of the
incompetence of the governor of the time.
The Jesus thing is clearly off topic. Also the entire revolt thing
is not a bible issue. Judea-in-turmoil is not found in the bible. So
not only is Tiberius embellished with bible stories but the bible
stories are embellished with material not found in the bible. Another
example of the power of modern myth.
They get their real history from the estimable Andrew Wallace-Hadrill,
then interview some professor of "Bible History" as if s/he were an
academic in the same way, which of course they are not. It may be that
Wallace-Hadrill does not even know what is in the rest of the programme.
[/quote]
Or, as happens in so many newspaper interviews, the filmed an hour interview,
focused on the bible parts and did not show the qualifiers such as "some
believe" or "the long discredited idea that".
--
Abraham was such a great con artist he sold his wife to kings many times
over and convinced the world god gave him Palestine.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4063
http://www.haaretz.com What is Israel really like? http://www.jpost.com a7 |
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Matt Giwer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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SolomonW wrote:
[quote]In article <49093e21$0$4949$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>, jull43
@tampabay.REMover.rr.com says...
The only artifacts found there which possibly result in an earlier date are
Egyptian.
No there is radiocarbon dating on date seeds, sticks of tamarisk and
other woods used for charcoal in smelting (along with Bayesian analysis)
to obtain the 10th- and 9th-century BCE dates.
[/quote]
The article says the artifacts were used for dating. Where did you read that
claim? However grain and charcoal would only date not show who ran the operation.
[quote]Considering Egypt ruled bibleland in the 10th c. BC the mine was, by
all the presently available evidence, an Egyptian enterprise.
The only Egyptian rulers in the 10th century BCE was Pharaoh Sheshonq I
(aka "Shishak" in the Bible). He only was in the region only for a short
period of time.
[/quote]
Excuse me but the bible story is bullshit and you should know it. The New
Kingdom of Egypt ruled bibleland all the way to the Euphrates from about 1600
BC until about the 9th c. BC. After the 9th c. BC it was under continuous rule
by other nations, Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks and
Romans. It was never independent. I am certain you consider that a minor error
in an otherwise perfect historical record of the bible. The people of the
region called themselves the Syrians of Palestine according to Herodotus who
traveled there.
[quote] You are free to present something connecting it with Solomon any time you are
up to it.
We can say that a complex societies was indeed active in 10th and 9th
centuries BCE in Edom.
[/quote]
What does that have to do with the only evidence given showing the mine was
an Egyptian enterprise?
--
Newman is the best known jew in the world.
Not Paul, Alfred E.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4068
http://www.giwersworld.org/environment/aehb.phtml a2 |
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Kendall K Down
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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In message <490a63a4$0$4895$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:
[quote]Excuse me but the bible story is bullshit and you should know it. The New
Kingdom of Egypt ruled bibleland all the way to the Euphrates from about 1600
BC until about the 9th c. BC. After the 9th c. BC it was under
continuous rule by other nations, Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians,
Persians, Greeks and Romans. It was never independent. I am certain
you consider that a minor error in an otherwise perfect historical
record of the bible. The people of the region called themselves the
Syrians of Palestine according to Herodotus who traveled there.
[/quote]
Thus speaketh Matt the Pratt. Perhaps he would care to tell us the
date when Herodotus travelled there?
Ken Down
--
================ ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIGGINGS ===============
| Australia>s premier archaeological magazine |
| http://www.diggingsonline.com |
======================================================== |
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Matt Giwer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Soon to become proof positive of Solomon and all of the |
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Kendall K Down wrote:
[quote]In message <49093e21$0$4949$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:
"The team also found ancient Egyptian artifacts at the site including a
scarab and amulet from the 10th century BC."
The only artifacts found there which possibly result in an earlier date are
Egyptian.
Do you know what the word "also" means, Matt the Pratt?
[/quote]
When you have physical evidence of any artifacts connecting this with Solomon
you be sure to post it.
--
The greater Israel>s atrocities the more antisemitic
it is to mention them.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4070
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo/nizgas3.html a4 |
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