Science and Technology news... :: View topic - Si-diodes in Second World War radar & Communication equipmen

ronwer · Guest

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes
-name/type number of radar/communication equipment
-technical infor on those systems
-info on producers
-pictures of actual diodes, also "in" the circuits
-anecdotal stories about the actual use
-anything else!

The information will be used for an on-going study project related to
practical application of minerals (i.e. quartz) in industry and technology.

So, since this is an aspect of a broader study, other quartz-related info
would
be most appreciated, especially about early use of piezoelectric
quartz crystals in electronic equipment.

If you>d prefer, answering off-list is possible:

neo.dymium@yahoo.com

Thanks for ANY help!

Ronald
Norway

Joerg · Guest

ronwer wrote:
[quote]Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes
-name/type number of radar/communication equipment
-technical infor on those systems
-info on producers
-pictures of actual diodes, also "in" the circuits
-anecdotal stories about the actual use
-anything else!

The information will be used for an on-going study project related to
practical application of minerals (i.e. quartz) in industry and technology.

So, since this is an aspect of a broader study, other quartz-related info
would
be most appreciated, especially about early use of piezoelectric
quartz crystals in electronic equipment.

If you>d prefer, answering off-list is possible:

neo.dymium@yahoo.com

Thanks for ANY help!

[/quote]
Probably you could start by finding information about this gear but
there would have to be someone on the team who can understand German:
http://www.100-jahre-radar.de/index.html?/gdr_5_deutschefunkmesstechnikim2wk.html

Many such sites have links to British and American gear but often also
in German. Another option are senior centers. A few of the EEs from
those days are still alive but there won>t be much time left.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

John Fields · Guest

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
<neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes
[/quote]
---
1N23 is a good place to start.
---

[quote]-name/type number of radar/communication equipment
-technical infor on those systems
-info on producers
-pictures of actual diodes, also "in" the circuits
[/quote]
---
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=1N23+pictures

JF

John Fields · Guest

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

[quote]On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.
[/quote]
---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn>t appear until the '50>s, I believe.

JF

Michael A. Terrell · Guest

John Fields wrote:
[quote]
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.
[/quote]

I still have one, wrapped in the lead foil that was surplused from
some earlier WE microwave relay equipment. From the looks of it, it was
probably made for 'White Alice'.

--
aioe.org is home to cowards and terrorists

Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file
* drop Path:*aioe.org!not-for-mail to drop all aioe.org traffic.

http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

Michael A. Terrell · Guest

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
[quote]
John Fields wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

I still have one, wrapped in the lead foil that was surplused from
some earlier WE microwave relay equipment. From the looks of it, it was
probably made for 'White Alice'.
[/quote]

Actually, I think it is a 1N21.

Here is a web page selling some of the early microwave diodes:
http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/rf-diodes.html

--
aioe.org is home to cowards and terrorists

Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file
* drop Path:*aioe.org!not-for-mail to drop all aioe.org traffic.

http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

ronwer · Guest

[quote]Probably you could start by finding information about this gear but there
would have to be someone on the team who can understand German:
http://www.100-jahre-radar.de/index.html?/gdr_5_deutschefunkmesstechnikim2wk.html

Many such sites have links to British and American gear but often also in
German. Another option are senior centers. A few of the EEs from those
days are still alive but there won>t be much time left.

--
Regards, Joerg
[/quote]

Thanks! I will check this out. German is no problem whatsoever!

Best regards,

Ronald
Norway

Don Bowey · Guest

On 4/12/08 9:31 AM, in article
KqmdnRpvIuJgfp3VnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

[quote]
John Fields wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

I still have one, wrapped in the lead foil that was surplused from
some earlier WE microwave relay equipment. From the looks of it, it was
probably made for 'White Alice'.

[/quote]
In which case it was likely used in the FPS19 radar or/and the Tropo systems
if my memory isn>t fractured. But the early Projects were begun in the 50s.

John>s post reprogrammed my erroneous thought that the 1N23 is germanium.
It is the 1N21 that is germanium, and likely existed in the 40s.

John Larkin · Guest

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
<neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes
-name/type number of radar/communication equipment
-technical infor on those systems
-info on producers
-pictures of actual diodes, also "in" the circuits
-anecdotal stories about the actual use
-anything else!

The information will be used for an on-going study project related to
practical application of minerals (i.e. quartz) in industry and technology.

So, since this is an aspect of a broader study, other quartz-related info
would
be most appreciated, especially about early use of piezoelectric
quartz crystals in electronic equipment.

If you>d prefer, answering off-list is possible:

neo.dymium@yahoo.com

Thanks for ANY help!

Ronald
Norway

[/quote]
Volume 15 of the MIT RadLab books, "Crystal Rectifiers" 440 pages, is
all about that. History, theory, parts, applications. Appendix D lists
the common mixer types. The history part mentions early mineral-based
rectifiers.

Some interesting sections are one which notes that some diodes have
power gain when used as mixers, and a suggestion that semiconductor
triodes should be possible, and some interesting 100-volt
welded-junction "power" diodes.

Volume 16, "Microwave Mixers" has some more stuff.

These books show up on ebay, or a used-book thing like Alibris.

I think Bliley Corp may have some papers on the history of quartz
crystals. They, along with the point-contact diode, helped to win the
war.

John

Joerg · Guest

ronwer wrote:
[quote]Probably you could start by finding information about this gear but there
would have to be someone on the team who can understand German:
http://www.100-jahre-radar.de/index.html?/gdr_5_deutschefunkmesstechnikim2wk.html

Many such sites have links to British and American gear but often also in
German. Another option are senior centers. A few of the EEs from those
days are still alive but there won>t be much time left.

--
Regards, Joerg

Thanks! I will check this out. German is no problem whatsoever!

Best regards,

Ronald
Norway

[/quote]
Ah, Norway. Then you might even find some WW-II veterans from the German
side. I>ve met a few when I was younger. Some had been stationed there
and liked it so much that they later moved to Scandinavia or bought a
summer house there. One friend of mine would have known a lot about
these Radars but unfortunately he passed away. He went on vacation to
Norway pretty much every year.

In contrast to today the guys at the sites were intimately familiar with
the circuitry because they had to repair this stuff on the component level.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Neodymium · Guest

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> skrev i melding
news:Ac8Mj.8403$2g1.7646@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
[quote]ronwer wrote:
Probably you could start by finding information about this gear but
there would have to be someone on the team who can understand German:
http://www.100-jahre-radar.de/index.html?/gdr_5_deutschefunkmesstechnikim2wk.html

Many such sites have links to British and American gear but often also
in German. Another option are senior centers. A few of the EEs from
those days are still alive but there won>t be much time left.

--
Regards, Joerg

Thanks! I will check this out. German is no problem whatsoever!

Best regards,

Ronald
Norway

Ah, Norway. Then you might even find some WW-II veterans from the German
side. I>ve met a few when I was younger. Some had been stationed there and
liked it so much that they later moved to Scandinavia or bought a summer
house there. One friend of mine would have known a lot about these Radars
but unfortunately he passed away. He went on vacation to Norway pretty
much every year.

In contrast to today the guys at the sites were intimately familiar with
the circuitry because they had to repair this stuff on the component
level.

--
Regards, Joerg
[/quote]
Hi Joerg,

Not a bad idea at all! I should try to locate one of those organisations for
WW-II veterans, you never know!

Thanks!

Ronald
Norway

Neodymium · Guest

[quote]Volume 15 of the MIT RadLab books, "Crystal Rectifiers" 440 pages, is
all about that. History, theory, parts, applications. Appendix D lists
the common mixer types. The history part mentions early mineral-based
rectifiers.

Some interesting sections are one which notes that some diodes have
power gain when used as mixers, and a suggestion that semiconductor
triodes should be possible, and some interesting 100-volt
welded-junction "power" diodes.

Volume 16, "Microwave Mixers" has some more stuff.

These books show up on ebay, or a used-book thing like Alibris.
[/quote]
OK, thanks for the titles, will definitely look for them on eBay or Amazone.
Alibris is new to me, but I>ll check.

[quote]I think Bliley Corp may have some papers on the history of quartz
crystals. They, along with the point-contact diode, helped to win the
war.
[/quote]
I will definitely try Bliley!

But otherwise, yes, that is one of the important issues I want to document:
to what extent where these components decisive for the outcome of the war.
Interesting stuff, good for the museum expositions I am working on!

Ronald
Norway

Neodymium · Guest

"Don Bowey" <dbowey@comcast.net> skrev i melding
news:C42650B2.B518B%dbowey@comcast.net...
[quote]On 4/12/08 9:31 AM, in article
KqmdnRpvIuJgfp3VnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

John Fields wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

I still have one, wrapped in the lead foil that was surplused from
some earlier WE microwave relay equipment. From the looks of it, it was
probably made for 'White Alice'.

In which case it was likely used in the FPS19 radar or/and the Tropo
systems
if my memory isn>t fractured. But the early Projects were begun in the
50s.

John>s post reprogrammed my erroneous thought that the 1N23 is germanium.
It is the 1N21 that is germanium, and likely existed in the 40s.
[/quote]

I googled for 1N23, some say germanium, others silicon...

But you are sure it IS silicon!?

One datasheet I found was in Japanese/Chineze, and the other didn>t mention
Si/Ge at all. Max f=9,325 GHz

It>s hard surfing effectively with only 56 kbs at a hilltop far from the
civilized world.

At Wikipedia they said germanium:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMA_tube_designation

I am out on a job, but when I get back in Mai I can check my own sample with
a multimeter, that will give a result.

Ronald
Norway

Michael A. Terrell · Guest

Neodymium wrote:
[quote]
I googled for 1N23, some say germanium, others silicon...

But you are sure it IS silicon!?

One datasheet I found was in Japanese/Chineze, and the other didn>t mention
Si/Ge at all. Max f=9,325 GHz

It>s hard surfing effectively with only 56 kbs at a hilltop far from the
civilized world.

At Wikipedia they said germanium:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMA_tube_designation

I am out on a job, but when I get back in Mai I can check my own sample with
a multimeter, that will give a result.
[/quote]

Be careful. Those early diodes were very fragile. They were easy to
damage with static, or over current. The military had a special test
set for them. You might luck out and find the schematic online. The link
I posted in another message had the Test Set model number TS-286C/U
listed.

http://www.avtechpulse.com/faq.html/ might be of interest, as well.

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/RMP/v67/i2/p397_1

--
aioe.org is home to cowards and terrorists

Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file
* drop Path:*aioe.org!not-for-mail to drop all aioe.org traffic.

http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

John Larkin · Guest

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:27:04 +0200, "Neodymium" <neo.dymium@yahoo.com>
wrote:

[quote]Volume 15 of the MIT RadLab books, "Crystal Rectifiers" 440 pages, is
all about that. History, theory, parts, applications. Appendix D lists
the common mixer types. The history part mentions early mineral-based
rectifiers.

Some interesting sections are one which notes that some diodes have
power gain when used as mixers, and a suggestion that semiconductor
triodes should be possible, and some interesting 100-volt
welded-junction "power" diodes.

Volume 16, "Microwave Mixers" has some more stuff.

These books show up on ebay, or a used-book thing like Alibris.

OK, thanks for the titles, will definitely look for them on eBay or Amazone.
Alibris is new to me, but I>ll check.

I think Bliley Corp may have some papers on the history of quartz
crystals. They, along with the point-contact diode, helped to win the
war.

I will definitely try Bliley!

But otherwise, yes, that is one of the important issues I want to document:
to what extent where these components decisive for the outcome of the war.
Interesting stuff, good for the museum expositions I am working on!

Ronald
Norway

[/quote]
Also look into mica capacitors, and the use of mica as structural
insulators in vacuum tubes and as a filler in phenolic sockets and
such. Mica is unique: it>s a good dielectric, a great high-temperature
insulator and support, and naturally fractures into high-quality
transparant sheets of nearly any desired thickness, yet is easily
sheared and punched.

John


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