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John Larkin
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 Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Si-diodes in Second World War radar & Communication equi |
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On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:42:57 -0700, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote]On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:04:37 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:17:10 -0700, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:45:08 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:03:32 GMT, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:59:36 -0700, Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net
wrote:
On 4/20/08 11:26 AM, in article am2n04hciv1c0trs9vmfala4pf78ic80nb@4ax.com,
"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi!
I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.
What I would be interested in is as follows:
-type numbers of the diodes
---
1N23 is a good place to start.
---
Oops... brain fart.
The 1N23 didn>t appear until the '50>s, I believe.
JF
Not only that it was germanium not silicon.
Do you have a solid reference for that? "Credible" references I found said
they were silicon.
The most conclusive evidence i know of, is someone here who actually
put one to test and the result was germanium. A heck of a lot of
"official" or "authoritative" records are pure fertilizer.
What test?
John
V(f) @ 1 mA. Result < 180 mV. Thus Ge, not Si.
Here are some curves from the RadLab book:
ftp://66.117.156.8/RadLabDiodes.JPG
ftp://66.117.156.8/RadDiode2.JPG
Your data point is dead on the point-contact Silicon diode curve.
John
Say what you will. I was playing with 1950>s (or older) parts in the
1960>s. All the datasheets back then said Ge. Compare proper
contemporaneous parts.
[/quote]
Well, I>m sure your memory is more accurate than my books and
datasheets.
John |
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John Popelish
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Si-diodes in Second World War radar & Communication equi |
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John Larkin wrote:
[quote]On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:42:57 -0700, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com
Say what you will. I was playing with 1950>s (or older) parts in the
1960>s. All the datasheets back then said Ge. Compare proper
contemporaneous parts.
Well, I>m sure your memory is more accurate than my books and
datasheets.
[/quote]
I found an oral history from someone who was involved in the
research at the time (Art Uhlir Jr.). It is a bit
scattered, but very close to this discussion:
http://semiconductormuseum.com/Transistors/BellLabs/OralHistories/Uhlir/Uhlir_Index.htm
Bottom of page 10 gets to the 1N23.
--
Regards,
John Popelish |
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Jeff Liebermann
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Si-diodes in Second World War radar & Communication equi |
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On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:42:57 -0700, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote]Say what you will. I was playing with 1950>s (or older) parts in the
1960>s. All the datasheets back then said Ge. Compare proper
contemporaneous parts.
[/quote]
I still have a few 1N21 and 1N23 diodes used as mixers in ancient
X-band radar receivers. 2K25 klystron for a local oscillator.
Anyway, they>re both silicon, not germanium. See:
<http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_1n21a.html>
<http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_1n23c.html>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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Jim Thompson
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Si-diodes in Second World War radar & Communication equi |
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On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:10:26 -0400, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:
[quote]John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:42:57 -0700, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com
Say what you will. I was playing with 1950>s (or older) parts in the
1960>s. All the datasheets back then said Ge. Compare proper
contemporaneous parts.
Well, I>m sure your memory is more accurate than my books and
datasheets.
I found an oral history from someone who was involved in the
research at the time (Art Uhlir Jr.). It is a bit
scattered, but very close to this discussion:
http://semiconductormuseum.com/Transistors/BellLabs/OralHistories/Uhlir/Uhlir_Index.htm
Bottom of page 10 gets to the 1N23.
[/quote]
Corroborates my thought that they were probably point-contact.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC>s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave |
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Eeyore
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Si-diodes in Second World War radar & Communication equi |
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JosephKK wrote: John Larkin wrote:
[quote]
Your data point is dead on the point-contact Silicon diode curve.
John
Say what you will. I was playing with 1950>s (or older) parts in the
1960>s. All the datasheets back then said Ge. Compare proper
contemporaneous parts.
[/quote]
Maybe they changed from Si to Ge ?
My IEE book on the subject says the early radar diodes were silicon though.
Graham |
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Phil Allison
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: JosephKKK = Flat Earther |
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"Eeysore"
JosephKK
[quote]
Say what you will. I was playing with 1950>s (or older) parts in the
1960>s. All the datasheets back then said Ge. Compare proper
contemporaneous parts.
Maybe they changed from Si to Ge ?
My IEE book on the subject says the early radar diodes were silicon
though.
[/quote]
** Wake up - you pathetic dope.
You are wasting your remaining life arguing with a bona-fide " flat earther
" here.
Stop now - or else you will fall right off the edge ... .. ... ... ...
... .
T - hump . . .. ..
.... Phil |
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John Fields
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Si-diodes in Second World War radar & Communication equi |
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On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:06:12 -0700, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote]On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:51:25 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:00:35 -0700, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:42:10 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:19:49 GMT, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, ronwer wrote:
I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.
Did they even _have_ silicon diodes in WWII? I remember when they
announced the first transistor, some time in the early 1950>s.
Thanks,
Rich
Yup. Most of the WWII radar diodes were silicon point-contact types,
Schottky diodes actually. The best 1943-vintage mixer parts were about
as good as any packaged schottky you can buy today... 0.2 Vf, 0.2 pF,
decent noise figures to 30 GHz.
The point-contact transistor was invented at Bell Labs in 1947. Most
of the relevant semiconductor theory - bandgaps, hole/electron
conduction, doping - was well understood by about 1940. The RadLab
guys didn>t develop a PN-junction diode or the transistor because
their mandate was to develop radar to win the war.
John
Gee, John. Where do you get schottky diodes with V(f) below 0.2 V at
I(f) of 1 mA? All the ones i could find were over 0.33 V and mostly
0.4 to 0.5 V.
---
I just pulled a random 1N5817 out of stock, put 1.000 milliamps
through it and measured 0.1383 volts across it.
JF
And what is the junction capacitance and does it make a good microwave
mixer?
[/quote]
---
Who cares?
Your statement that: "All the ones i could find were over 0.33 V and
mostly 0.4 to 0.5 V." had nothing to do with junction capacitance and
suitability for use as microwave mixers, all you were trying to do was
discredit Larkin by using bogus data. Which Schottky diodes were you
referring to, BTW?
JF |
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legg
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Si-diodes in Second World War radar & Communication equi |
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On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:04:37 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
According to the Henney>s Radio Engineering Handbook 4th ed (1950),
1N25 and 1N26 silcon point contact 'crystals' for use in UHF and SHF
converters (1 to 25 GHz) are discussed in commercial publications by
Cornelius in 1945; 1N34 and 1N38 germanium 'crystals' for use at VHF
(~200mHz) appear in publications the following year.
Waritime radar operated in the 195MHz-10,000MHz range.
1N21B 'crystal' mixers were used by GE in commercial 2GHz relay
service before 1948 and similar parts were used by Bell in multiplex
telephone and television relay systems at 4GHz around the same time.
RL |
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