Science and Technology news... :: View topic - Si-diodes in Second World War radar & Communication equipmen

Joerg · Guest

Joerg wrote:
[quote]ronwer wrote:
Probably you could start by finding information about this gear but
there would have to be someone on the team who can understand German:
http://www.100-jahre-radar.de/index.html?/gdr_5_deutschefunkmesstechnikim2wk.html

Many such sites have links to British and American gear but often
also in German. Another option are senior centers. A few of the EEs
from those days are still alive but there won>t be much time left.

--
Regards, Joerg

Thanks! I will check this out. German is no problem whatsoever!

Best regards,

Ronald
Norway

Ah, Norway. Then you might even find some WW-II veterans from the German
side. I>ve met a few when I was younger. Some had been stationed there
and liked it so much that they later moved to Scandinavia or bought a
summer house there. One friend of mine would have known a lot about
these Radars but unfortunately he passed away. He went on vacation to
Norway pretty much every year.

In contrast to today the guys at the sites were intimately familiar with
the circuitry because they had to repair this stuff on the component level.

[/quote]
Here is another link for you. Looks like the first patent for a silicon
diode was issued in 1906. That blew me away. Starts at page 7:

http://assets.cambridge.org/052183/5267/sample/0521835267ws.pdf

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Barry Lennox · Guest

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
<neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes
-name/type number of radar/communication equipment
-technical infor on those systems
-info on producers
-pictures of actual diodes, also "in" the circuits
-anecdotal stories about the actual use
-anything else!
[/quote]
As mentioned by another, Vol 15 and 16 of the Radlab series has a lot
of what you will be after. But also check out the Vol 17: "Components
handbook" that also has a fair amount on diodes.

Also, look at "A History of Engineering and Science in the Bell
System1925-1975" There are 6 volumes, ranging from 360 to about 1000
pages, and they all cover diodes to some extent.

The RSGB "Technical Topics" scrapbooks (there>s now 4) compiled by
G3VA, Pat Hawker, also mentions WW2 equipments and components in many
places. He was initially a VI, then joined Special Comms and SOE
during the war.

I also had an interesting book by Philips back in the 60>s on diodes,
long gone now tho!

Barry

Don Bowey · Guest

On 4/13/08 12:41 PM, in article io6dneayupGK_5_VRVnzvQA@telenor.com,
"Neodymium" <neo.dymium@yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]
"Don Bowey" <dbowey@comcast.net> skrev i melding
news:C42650B2.B518B%dbowey@comcast.net...
On 4/12/08 9:31 AM, in article
KqmdnRpvIuJgfp3VnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

John Fields wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

I still have one, wrapped in the lead foil that was surplused from
some earlier WE microwave relay equipment. From the looks of it, it was
probably made for 'White Alice'.

In which case it was likely used in the FPS19 radar or/and the Tropo
systems
if my memory isn>t fractured. But the early Projects were begun in the
50s.

John>s post reprogrammed my erroneous thought that the 1N23 is germanium.
It is the 1N21 that is germanium, and likely existed in the 40s.

I googled for 1N23, some say germanium, others silicon...
[/quote]
Some of the "documentation" is so bad it>s impossible to interpret it with
any assurance of being correct. However, I did find what I believe to be
valid data: the 1N23 is a Point Contact, Silicon device.

[quote]
But you are sure it IS silicon!?
[/quote]
Now I am.
[quote]
One datasheet I found was in Japanese/Chineze, and the other didn>t mention
Si/Ge at all. Max f=9,325 GHz

It>s hard surfing effectively with only 56 kbs at a hilltop far from the
civilized world.

At Wikipedia they said germanium:
[/quote]
Wiki has some Very bad information about diodes.

[quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMA_tube_designation

I am out on a job, but when I get back in Mai I can check my own sample with
a multimeter, that will give a result.
[/quote]
Handle them carefully, as static discharge can destroy them easily.

[quote]

Ronald
Norway

[/quote]

John Fields · Guest

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:41:52 +0200, "Neodymium" <neo.dymium@yahoo.com>
wrote:

[quote]
"Don Bowey" <dbowey@comcast.net> skrev i melding
news:C42650B2.B518B%dbowey@comcast.net...
On 4/12/08 9:31 AM, in article
KqmdnRpvIuJgfp3VnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

John Fields wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

I still have one, wrapped in the lead foil that was surplused from
some earlier WE microwave relay equipment. From the looks of it, it was
probably made for 'White Alice'.

In which case it was likely used in the FPS19 radar or/and the Tropo
systems
if my memory isn>t fractured. But the early Projects were begun in the
50s.

John>s post reprogrammed my erroneous thought that the 1N23 is germanium.
It is the 1N21 that is germanium, and likely existed in the 40s.

I googled for 1N23, some say germanium, others silicon...

But you are sure it IS silicon!?
[/quote]
---
http://www.advancedsemiconductor.com/pdf/diodes/SiliconPointContactMixer.pdf

And, here>s a _good_ one:

http://www.computerhistory.org/semiconductor/timeline/1941-semiconductor.html

JF

JosephKK · Guest

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

[quote]On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn>t appear until the '50>s, I believe.

JF
[/quote]
Not only that it was germanium not silicon.

Don Bowey · Guest

On 4/20/08 11:26 AM, in article am2n04hciv1c0trs9vmfala4pf78ic80nb@4ax.com,
"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn>t appear until the '50>s, I believe.

JF

Not only that it was germanium not silicon.
[/quote]
Do you have a solid reference for that? "Credible" references I found said
they were silicon.

John Larkin · Guest

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:59:36 -0700, Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net>
wrote:

[quote]On 4/20/08 11:26 AM, in article am2n04hciv1c0trs9vmfala4pf78ic80nb@4ax.com,
"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn>t appear until the '50>s, I believe.

JF

Not only that it was germanium not silicon.

Do you have a solid reference for that? "Credible" references I found said
they were silicon.

[/quote]
All my references say that the 1N23 is a silicon point-contact
(Schottky) diode. MicroMetrics still makes them - at insane prices -
and theirs are definitely silicon.

http://www.micrometrics.com/pdfs/PC_SXBandMixer.pdf

Some of the WWII vintage mixer diodes are impressive. Vf was typically
about 250 mV at 1 mA, and junction capacitances were a couple of
tenths of a pF, about as good as any packaged diode you can buy today.

John

John Larkin · Guest

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

[quote]On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn>t appear until the '50>s, I believe.

JF
[/quote]
Early 40>s, actually. It was widely used as a radar mixer in WWII.

John

Michael A. Terrell · Guest

John Larkin wrote:
[quote]
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn>t appear until the '50>s, I believe.

JF

Early 40>s, actually. It was widely used as a radar mixer in WWII.
[/quote]

A lot of existing devices were given JEDEC numbers after the system
was created. Different manufacturers made similar parts, with different
numbering. That was why the standard was created.

--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

Michael A. Terrell · Guest

John Larkin wrote:
[quote]
All my references say that the 1N23 is a silicon point-contact
(Schottky) diode. MicroMetrics still makes them - at insane prices -
and theirs are definitely silicon.

http://www.micrometrics.com/pdfs/PC_SXBandMixer.pdf
[/quote]

Some originals are still avilible as NOS surplus, if you know where
to look. :)

[quote]Some of the WWII vintage mixer diodes are impressive. Vf was typically
about 250 mV at 1 mA, and junction capacitances were a couple of
tenths of a pF, about as good as any packaged diode you can buy today.

John
[/quote]

--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm

John Fields · Guest

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:51:24 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

[quote]On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn>t appear until the '50>s, I believe.

JF

Early 40>s, actually. It was widely used as a radar mixer in WWII.
[/quote]
---
Cite?

JF

John Larkin · Guest

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 18:29:32 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

[quote]On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:51:24 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn>t appear until the '50>s, I believe.

JF

Early 40>s, actually. It was widely used as a radar mixer in WWII.

---
Cite?

JF
[/quote]
MIT RadLab books, volume 15, "Crystal Rectifiers", appendix D,
published in 1948.

What is the citation for your statement that "The 1N23 didn>t appear
until the '50>s, I believe." ?

John

JosephKK · Guest

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:59:36 -0700, Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net>
wrote:

[quote]On 4/20/08 11:26 AM, in article am2n04hciv1c0trs9vmfala4pf78ic80nb@4ax.com,
"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn>t appear until the '50>s, I believe.

JF

Not only that it was germanium not silicon.

Do you have a solid reference for that? "Credible" references I found said
they were silicon.

[/quote]
The most conclusive evidence i know of, is someone here who actually
put one to test and the result was germanium. A heck of a lot of
"official" or "authoritative" records are pure fertilizer.

Phil Allison · Guest

"JosephKK"

[quote]
Not only that it was germanium not silicon.

Do you have a solid reference for that? "Credible" references I found
said
they were silicon.

The most conclusive evidence i know of, is someone here who actually
put one to test and the result was germanium.
[/quote]

** What "test " was that then - was the diode chip was removed, ground
up and fed into an " atomic absorption spectrometer " to see if it was
germanium ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Absorption_Spectrophotometry

Or maybe it was just a simple multimeter test of the forward voltage drop -
eh ?

Which gives an ambiguous result for germanium and silicon point contact
diodes - cos the forward drops are so similar.

[quote]A heck of a lot of "official" or "authoritative" records are pure
fertilizer.
[/quote]

** No Mr. KKK -

it is YOUR totally autism fucked, tiny brain that is so full of putrid
horse shit.

..... Phil

John Larkin · Guest

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:03:32 GMT, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com>
wrote:

[quote]On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:59:36 -0700, Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net
wrote:

On 4/20/08 11:26 AM, in article am2n04hciv1c0trs9vmfala4pf78ic80nb@4ax.com,
"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:29:18 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:24:19 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:51:10 +0200, "ronwer"
neo.dymium.removethisfirst@dontwantspam.yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi!

I am doing a study into the early use of silicon diodes in radar and
communication equipment during the Second World War.

What I would be interested in is as follows:

-type numbers of the diodes

---
1N23 is a good place to start.

---
Oops... brain fart.

The 1N23 didn>t appear until the '50>s, I believe.

JF

Not only that it was germanium not silicon.

Do you have a solid reference for that? "Credible" references I found said
they were silicon.

The most conclusive evidence i know of, is someone here who actually
put one to test and the result was germanium. A heck of a lot of
"official" or "authoritative" records are pure fertilizer.
[/quote]
What test?

John


www.GetXFactor.com Leading Technology, Science, Agriculture News and information	Part of the Identityscape.com network... getxfactor.com jmoodmusic.com smartbusinesschoices.com mintdepot.com lowfaresalways.com evangelicalview.com shoppingpodder.com soproudlywehail.com webnews.ws currenthumor.com

Science and Technology news... Forum Index -> Electonics - Starter Forum	Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next
Page 2 of 6