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Torsten Brinch · Guest

"An environmental assessment of Roundup Ready(R) Wheat:
Risks for direct seeding systems in Western Canada.
by RC Van Acker,AL Brúle-Babel and LF Friesen

The report concludes:
"The unconfined release of Roundup Ready wheat will negatively
affect the environment and limit farmer>s ability to conserve
natural ressources on farms in western Canada. The effect of this
novel product will have is unique because of the nature of the
trait involved and its relationsship to the way in which crops
are farmed in western Canada. Under current conditions the release
of Roundup Ready wheat in western Canada would be environmentally
unsafe."

full text of report:
http://www.cwb.ca/en/topics/biotechnology/report/pdf/070803.pdf

ddwyer · Guest

In article <3F0C9DAC.3A7DCC8E@exchangenet.net>, cor@exchangenet.net
writes
[quote]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: SCHMEISER>S BATTLE FOR THE SEED
Date: 9 Jul 2003 07:58:53 -0500
From: MichaelP <papadop@peak.org

THE INSTITUTE OF SCIENCE IN SOCIETY,
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/SLBFTS.php

What makes a farmer from a small rural community in Saskatchewan stand up
to Monsanto? And possibly, win? Dr. Mae-Wan Ho reports.

Percy Schmeiser, now in his early seventies, a soft-spoken, mild-mannered
Canadian farmer from the small rural community of Bruno some 80km east of
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, never dreamt he would be catapulted to the status
of a contemporary folk- hero. He had been farming for 40 years when he was
taken to court by biotech giant Monsanto in August 1998. The company
claimed he had illegally planted its genetically engineered Roundup Ready
canola without paying a $37-per-hectare fee for the privilege.

Schmeiser was not alone. Monsanto had accused scores of farmers of patent
infringing on its genetically engineered seed. But, instead of settling
out of court with Monsanto like the others, Schmeiser fought back. He had
been sowing each crop with seeds saved and selected from the previous
harvest for years, and had never purchased seed from Monsanto. Even so, he
found more than 320 hectares of his land contaminated by Monsanto>s
Roundup Ready canola.

Schmeiser insisted that any Roundup Ready growing on his land was spread
by wind or by grain trucks travelling on roads adjacent to his fields.

On 10 August 1999, mediation talks to settle the dispute ended in failure.
The next day, Schmeiser launched a $10 million lawsuit against Monsanto,
accusing the company of a variety of wrongs, including libel, trespass and
contaminating his fields with Roundup Ready canola. But Schmeiser>s
lawsuit against Monsanto won>t be dealt with until the original lawsuit
has been resolved. Little did he know what a long, hard battle he has
taken on.

It is a battle for the seed, for every farmer>s right to save and resow
harvested seed, to freely share and exchange without restriction, as
farmers have been doing for at least 15 000 years since agriculture began.

The trial was heard in June 2000, in the Federal Court in Saskatoon. At
the trial, Monsanto presented evidence from two dozen witnesses and
samplers that Schmeiser>s eight fields were all more than 90% Roundup
Ready. Monsanto had performed no independent tests, however; the tests
were all performed in house or by experts hired by the company.

In defence, Schmeiser presented his own farm-based evidence, that the
fields ranged from nearly zero to 68% Roundup Ready, which was confirmed
independently by research scientists at the University of Manitoba,
Winnipeg. Schmeiser>s defence also contained evidence that he did not
knowingly acquire Monsanto>s product, nor did he segregate the
contaminated seeds for future use or spray his canola crops with Roundup

But the Federal Court ruled against Schmeiser. Justice Andrew McKay upheld
the validity of Monsanto>s patented gene. In a key part of the ruling, the
judge agreed a farmer can generally own the seeds or plants grown on his
land if they blow in or are carried there by pollen; but this is not true
in the case of genetically modified seed.

It didn>t matter how the Roundup Ready canola got to his fields. He was
deemed to have infringed Monsanto patent, and was fined $15/acre x 1030
acres licence fee, plus the value of his entire crop, $105,000 (including
fields that did not have any Roundup Ready canola), plus $25,000 for
punitive and exemplary damages.

"Where does Monsanto>s rights end and mine begin?" Percy Schmeiser asked.
He refused to abide by the judgement, and launched an appeal, which was
heard in May 2002 in Saskatoon.

Unfortunately, all three judges ruled against him yet again. By this time,
he and Louise, his wife of 50 years, had already spent $ 200 000 in legal
fees. He had ceased to plant canola, for any canola crop he planted would
belong to Monsanto.

Monsanto had kept up a constant campaign of harassment and intimidation
all through the trial in 1999 and 2000. And in 2001, Monsanto brought a
new case against Schmeiser for $1 million in court costs -- $750 000 for
their lawyers, $250 000 for disbursements which included travel expenses,
payments for expert witnesses and $15 000 lawyer>s night entertainments'.

Undaunted, Percy Schmeiser took his case to the Supreme court, and in May
2003, when I caught up with him at the Biodevastation 7 meeting held in
Monsanto>s hometown St. Louis, Missouri, he just got the good news that he
has won his right to be heard in the Supreme Court. There were loud cheers
in the hall.

Percy Schmeiser has been tireless in travelling the world to tell his
story. Everywhere, farmers are fighting for their lives and livelihoods.
Monsanto winning would be the very last straw, not just for farmers, for
everyone. Schmeiser has come to symbolise our collective struggle against
corporate serfdom. Just as independent scientists are oppressed and
victimised, farmers are subject to the same or worse treatment.

Monsanto>s tactics are well known. The company gets farmers to sign away
all their rights in an unbelievable technology contract. The farmer must
not use his or her own seed, must buy seed and chemicals from Monsanto.
Monsanto can send inspectors onto your fields for three years even if you
grow the company>s crops for only one year.

Monsanto also openly advertises for people to tell on their neighbours if
they are suspected of having GM crops without licence. The company>s
representatives can trespass onto your fields even when you are not at
home, or fly over your field and spray Roundup to see if the crop dies.

Immediately after Monsanto had obtained its judgement against Percy
Schmeiser, the company had declared war on all Saskatchewan farmers.
Schmeiser received hundreds of phone calls from farmers who have been
contacted by Monsanto representatives and received demand letters saying
that they have unauthorised GM crops growing in their fields and must pay
so many thousands of dollars to avoid lawsuit. Many of the farmers who
called Schmeiser were in the same circumstances: they never bought any
seed from Monsanto or signed any contract.

But things may be turning Schmeiser>s (and our) way at long last.

In June 2002, a report from the Canadian Biotechnology Advisory Committee
said that the Patent Act should be amended to permit farmers to save and
sow seeds from patented plants such as genetically engineered (GE) crops.

It also said that farmers who find GE plants growing in their fields
through "the adventitious spreading of patented seed or patented genetic
material or the insemination of an animal by a patented animal" should be
considered as innocent bystanders and not be liable to prosecution.

While biotechnology developments are patentable, the report said the
holder does not have "the right to market or even use the invention. This
is because some applications of the technology may pose risks to human or
animal health or to the environment, challenge the capacity of current
approaches to protecting health and the environment and or raise other
serious social and ethical questions that must be addressed."

The report suggests that the farmer be allowed to use the seed of a GE
crop or the offspring of a GE animal for his or her own use but not for
commercial purposes.

Better yet, in December 2002, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that the
genetically engineered Harvard oncomouse is not patentable (see "Canada
rejects patents on higher forms of life ", ISIS Report, March 2003 ). This
opens the door to revoking patents on GM seeds, such as Monsanto>s Roundup
Ready canola. This could be the last nudge to get GM crops off our globe.

Help Percy fight Monsanto and get patents on life revoked for a GM-Free
world. Make a donation on his website: www.percyschmeiser.com

======================

*** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material
is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest
in receiving the included information for research and educational
purposes. Feel free to distribute widely but PLEASE acknowledge the
original source. ***
[/quote]
Outrageous , one law for the powerful another for the Farmer.
Monsanto will end up destroyed through public opinion.

I warn of further hazards associated through GM food species.
Those in favour argue that plant species have been modified by selective
breeding for thousands of years and this is similar to current GM.
Note that GM is employed to advantage to modify species to produce
beneficial drugs of great subtlety and potency as required.
Traditional plant breeding cannot do this .
GM foodstuffs have the new potential to produce unexpected bio-active
proteins as a by-product of their new capabilities.
The probability of this occurring is small but risk analysis shows that
the small risk must be modified (multiplied) by the potential quantities
of new varieties each carrying the risk and the volume of populations
consuming.
The tiny advantage to the individual, does not justify the risk.
The responsibility must lie with the vendor of the new species to
demonstrate safety to a pharmaceutical standard. Demonstrating safety to
a pharmaceutical standard is expensive and wont be done unless
regulatory authorities insist.
Demonstrating safety to a pharmaceutical standard has come about only as
the consequence of Thalidomide like disasters, GM could bring this to a
large part of the population, should we wait or act now?

--
ddwyer

Torsten Brinch · Guest

Plans for Iraqi farm sector hampered by Post-War Strife

-------
The worsening security situation in Iraq is adversely affecting the
development of Iraq>s agriculture sector, the top American and
Australian farming administrators for Iraq said on June 9th.

Ever since the invasion of Iraq by a coalition of renegade nations led
by USA, Iraq>s ability to feed its own people with adequate supplies
of wheat, rice, poultry and other commodities has eroded. Now there is
increasingly armed attacks against American soldiers by Iraqi
Resistance Forces, and faulting or non-cooperation by the general
Iraqi population.

"The security issue is serious," said Daniel Amstutz, top U.S.
agriculture administrator for Iraq, who recently returned from his
first visit to Baghdad. "We have difficulty getting around," he said.

Amstutz and his Australian counterpart Trevor Flugge spoke to
reporters and told them security problems are impeding coalition
efforts aimed at restoring electricity and water, which are necessary
for successful farming operations in Iraq.

"Over the past couple weeks, things have changed" Flugge said, with
reference to the worsening situation in Iraq. "Security is not as good
as it should be."

Flugge also noted sabotage of utilities by Iraqi Resistance groups,
and mentioned, what he called "random shooting events."

The result of this, said Flugge, is a significant hindrance
for U.S. and Australian efforts to get Iraq>s Agriculture Ministry
operating again under their occupation authority. According to other
sources, the Iraqi Agriculture Ministry building in Baghdad will
remain closed until September.

The worsening security situation in the country has meant that
efforts to revive Iraq farming will be slowed "significantly",
Flugge said.

Recently, it has been reported that a huge warehouse near Baghdad,
thought to have housed massive stores of fertilizers and other
agriculture supplies to be used for the fall plantings, has been found
emptied by looters and "vandals".

Over the past several years -- until Iraq brutally was assaulted in
March 2003 by outlaw nation USA -- Iraqis were assured of adequate
food supplies by a United Nations /Iraqi government program, that
used revenues from Iraqi oil sales to finance purchase of food, and
distributed it to those who needed it.

That program is scheduled to end by the end of October, by which time
planners from the illegal occupation force>s agricultural
administration for Iraq had hoped to "move Iraq to market-oriented
food purchases".

However, Amstutz, the US agriculture administrator for Iraq, said that
over the next year or so, "Iraq will have to depend on wheat and rice
imports." He did not give details on how Iraq would decide to make
those purchases without a legitimate government.

Groups from two of the renegade nations now occupying Iraq in defiance
of international law, USA and Australia, are hoping to compete for
Iraq>s wheat market.

Torsten Brinch · Guest

The serious disruption of Iraq>s agriculture we are looking at now,
and the ongoing erosion of the food supply system in the war-battered
country, now appears to have been all unleashed by deceitful, baseless
or knowingly insufficiently based claims to justify war, made by the
governments of USA, UK, Australia and Denmark.

They have found no WMD in Iraq, no evidence of the imminent threat
from Iraq against its neighbors, or against the world, which they
belligerently crowed about before the war. They discover now, that
lies return to their owner, just as chickens come home to roost.

----------

Bush grilled on Iraq
(CBS/AP) 11.July
"The Bush administration Friday denied reports that the Central
Intelligence Agency had tried to delete a reference to Iraq>s alleged
attempt to buy uranium in Africa from the president>s State of the
Union address. Senior administration officials tell CBS News the
president>s apparently mistaken claim was included in the Jan. 28
speech over the CIA>s initial objections. "

"As long as the statement was attributed to British Intelligence, the
White House officials argued, it would be factually accurate. The CIA
officials dropped their objections and that’s how it was delivered.
“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently
sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa,” Mr. Bush said.
The statement was technically correct, since it accurately reflected
the British paper. But the bottom line is the White House knowingly
included in a presidential address information its own CIA had
explicitly warned might not be true."
------

Fogh grilled on Iraq
The Copenhagen Post 11. July
"in Denmark, the [Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen] government
has refuted every suggestion for an investigation of events leading up
to the nation>s participation in the Iraq war, noting that the
government>s knowledge of Iraqi WMD was based on "information commonly
known to the public."
"The entire case on Iraqi WMD as the basis for the war is devolving
into a farce. Whether or not anything is ever found, it>s clear that
the public has been pumped full of lies by the American president and
his minions," said [opposition party leader] Søndergaard." The
government stands by the correctness of its decision, and
(furthermore) it has never been proven that these weapons of mass
destruction did not exist," Fogh Rasmussen said"

------
Howard grilled on Iraq
11 July, Associated Press CANBERRA, Australia
"Australian Prime Minister John Howard remained unrepentant Friday
before analysts and opposition lawmakers who suggested his
administration knowingly misled the country over the war with Iraq."

"while Howard has largely escaped the fierce political pressure being
applied to British Prime Minister Tony Blair over his alleged deceits
on Iraq, Washington>s admission this week that it doubted claims Iraq
had sought uranium from Africa caused new headaches for Canberra.
Howard made the same claim to Parliament in a key speech outlining his
reasons for joining the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq."

"What we find, day by day, is a new revelation," said the opposition
Labor Party>s foreign policy spokesman Kevin Rudd, who claims Howard
misled the public and Parliament. "Extracting truth from the Howard
government on this matter is like extracting blood from a stone."

--------

Blair grilled on Iraq
11 July, The Telegraph, London
"Tony Blair called a special Cabinet meeting yesterday to plan ways of
restoring the Government>s credibility after Downing Street was forced
to admit that no actual weapons of mass destruction are likely to be
found in Iraq.

"The Prime Minister is also absolutely confident that we will find
evidence not only of his WMD programmes but concrete evidence of the
product of those programmes as well," the No 10 spokesman said.
However, during repeated questioning he refused to say whether such a
"product" would be the weapons that Mr Blair had originally claimed
could be deployed at 45 minutes' notice. It is understood that it
could be chemicals used in the preparation of WMD or plans for their
construction.

Labour opponents of the war were infuriated by the admission that the
weapons might might not be found. Robin Cook, the former foreign
secretary, said Britain and America did have to produce the weapons -
not just a few scientists who might at some time have had a capacity
to develop them."

"Former Prime Minister John Major and the current Tory leader, Iain
Duncan Smith, both repeated calls for an independent probe after
reports that Britain believed it would not find WMD in Iraq."

Moosh:] · Guest

On 6 Jul 2003 03:02:24 -0700, gmp@adres.nl (Hua Kul) wrote:

[quote]MO0$H <nill@nill.nill> wrote in message news:<rd5fgvgc1692ke9i8c07s50i7ugjsgkm11@4ax.com>...
On 5 Jul 2003 14:26:25 -0700, banmilk@hotmail.com (Ron) wrote:

If your corporations are not doing as you wish, get out and vote for a
regulator that will make them do so.

Let me fill you in on what your omniscient regulators are doing in the
US.
[/quote]
Not my regulators, Sunshine. I vote for mine with a view to doing the
best for the Australian community.

[quote]They are forbidding the Amish farmers in my home state from
selling their milk. The Amish don>t practice pasteurization.
[/quote]
Seems fair enough. Public safety and all that. Why won>t they make it
safe by pasteurisation? Same reason they wear those silly hats?

[quote]It
doesn>t matter if I want to drink their milk anyway, I have to be
protected from their *evil* old-fashioned practice, which somehow was
good enough for thousands of years.
[/quote]
If you drank the milk and got ill, who would have to look after you
and yours? The public purse? If you could arrange to sign a legal
waiver of your (and your dependents') civil rights here, you probably
would be allowed to buy it.

Else you could start your own country with your own rules.

Moosh:] · Guest

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 17:24:13 +0100, "Jim Webster"
<Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:

[quote]"James Curts" <jamescurts@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:UpWNa.49412$926.5334@sccrnsc03...
Well, don>t have a run away here. In reality it was Not good enough for
thousands of years. Milk is an ideal growing ground for bacteria which
without cooling or refrigeration is unfit to consume in a number of hours.
Most of the world did not have access to storageble quantities of milk
until
relatively recent times and the utilization of pasteurization made it
possible.

The Amish should only force their illiteracy on themselves. Their refusal
to
move along with the times is yet another form of control of one man over
others and has little of merit on which to proceed.

Pasteurization of milk was huge step forward and especially for our
children.

drunk unpasturised milk all my life, and everyone in our family for as far
back as anyone wants to go,
[/quote]
Lived on a farm, Jim? Would you drink unpasteurised from just
anywhere? Pooled milk? Thought not :)

[quote]certainly no TB or similar in the family in the
20th cent and none that we know of in the century before that. With TB and
Brucella testing in milk on an almost daily basis these are not going to be
a problem any more.
[/quote]
But the Amish wouldn>t do that either, for similar reasons, would
they?

[quote]It is probable that urban people with their lower level of immunity to many
things
[/quote]
Where do you get this from?

[quote]might be wise to avoid it, but to the best of my knowledge the only
countries than ban the sale of unpasturised milk are Scotland and Canada,
althrough I might be wrong here.
[/quote]
I believe you might :)

[quote]Certainly in the midst of one of our food scares they were even talking
about banning unpasturised cheese, at which point it was pointed out that
they couldn>t because the French make and sell vast quantities of
unpasturised cheese to us. We would have to prove it a health risk to ban
the import and no one can come up with enough evidence
[/quote]
I thought they had.

Moosh:] · Guest

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:02:14 +0100, "Jim Webster"
<Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:

[quote]
"Moosh:]" <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote in message
news:560vgvsmbaekuikaqvoh3pc65g740ccmqb@4ax.com...
On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 17:24:13 +0100, "Jim Webster"
Jim@feeswerve.spam.co.uk> wrote:

"James Curts" <jamescurts@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:UpWNa.49412$926.5334@sccrnsc03...
Well, don>t have a run away here. In reality it was Not good enough for
thousands of years. Milk is an ideal growing ground for bacteria which
without cooling or refrigeration is unfit to consume in a number of
hours.
Most of the world did not have access to storageble quantities of milk
until
relatively recent times and the utilization of pasteurization made it
possible.

The Amish should only force their illiteracy on themselves. Their
refusal
to
move along with the times is yet another form of control of one man
over
others and has little of merit on which to proceed.

Pasteurization of milk was huge step forward and especially for our
children.

drunk unpasturised milk all my life, and everyone in our family for as
far
back as anyone wants to go,

Lived on a farm, Jim? Would you drink unpasteurised from just
anywhere? Pooled milk? Thought not :)

have done in the UK when we could get it. Given the testing it has to go
through I haven>t any worries.
[/quote]
That>s fine, but the Amish, or their supporters seem to want to
dispense with all of that new fangled testing and stuff. I wouldn>t
buy unpasteurised dairy from a roadside stall.

[quote]certainly no TB or similar in the family in the
20th cent and none that we know of in the century before that. With TB
and
Brucella testing in milk on an almost daily basis these are not going to
be
a problem any more.

But the Amish wouldn>t do that either, for similar reasons, would
they?

god alone kows
[/quote]
Two puns in the one short sentence. Good one, Jim :)

[quote]It is probable that urban people with their lower level of immunity to
many
things

Where do you get this from?

just read widely, you find that rural populations and farm populations tend
to have higher immunity to certain things
[/quote]
I>ve not heard this. Farm populations in Australia have just as high
rates of asthma which is odd considering all the speculation about
pollution being the cause. I imagine any population is more immune to
what it is often exposed to. And those who don>t measure up just die
out :)

[quote]might be wise to avoid it, but to the best of my knowledge the only
countries than ban the sale of unpasturised milk are Scotland and Canada,
althrough I might be wrong here.

I believe you might :)

Certainly in the midst of one of our food scares they were even talking
about banning unpasturised cheese, at which point it was pointed out that
they couldn>t because the French make and sell vast quantities of
unpasturised cheese to us. We would have to prove it a health risk to ban
the import and no one can come up with enough evidence

I thought they had.

plenty of hysteria, no evidence
[/quote]
Can>t remember where (or what day it is :) but recently I read about
the number of cases of food poisoning from unpasteurised cheese.
Perhaps it was a public scare propaganda campaign to stop
unpasteurised imports :)

Hua Kul · Guest

"Moosh:]" <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote in message news:<u10vgvcdd2ag9ghp6qck9e07hdk6dcatdb@4ax.com>...
[quote]
If your corporations are not doing as you wish, get out and vote for a
regulator that will make them do so.

I vote for mine with a view to doing the
best for the Australian community.

If you drank the milk and got ill, who would have to look after you
and yours? The public purse? If you could arrange to sign a legal
waiver of your (and your dependents') civil rights here, you probably
would be allowed to buy it.

[/quote]
Little buzzing fly wants to be Big Brother. If you had lived in the
United States in 1776 you probably would have been a Loyalist. "Can>t
drink my tea without paying huge taxes on it? Sure! Tax my milk too,
even though the cow is mine!"

--Hua Kul

Moosh:] · Guest

On 12 Jul 2003 06:08:44 -0700, gmp@adres.nl (Hua Kul) wrote:

[quote]"Moosh:]" <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote in message news:<u10vgvcdd2ag9ghp6qck9e07hdk6dcatdb@4ax.com>...

If your corporations are not doing as you wish, get out and vote for a
regulator that will make them do so.

I vote for mine with a view to doing the
best for the Australian community.

If you drank the milk and got ill, who would have to look after you
and yours? The public purse? If you could arrange to sign a legal
waiver of your (and your dependents') civil rights here, you probably
would be allowed to buy it.

Little buzzing fly wants to be Big Brother. If you had lived in the
United States in 1776 you probably would have been a Loyalist. "Can>t
drink my tea without paying huge taxes on it? Sure! Tax my milk too,
even though the cow is mine!"
[/quote]
Not sure what you are rabbitting on about, but you seem to require a
little sociology education and a short civics primer.
You don>t seem to realise the responsibilities and duties required of
living in your society. Oh well, you>re in good company :(

James Curts · Guest

"Hua Kul" <gmp@adres.nl> wrote in message
news:3da4c6e5.0307120508.67bb4ae2@posting.google.com...
[quote]"Moosh:]" <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote in message
news:<u10vgvcdd2ag9ghp6qck9e07hdk6dcatdb@4ax.com>...

If your corporations are not doing as you wish, get out and vote for
a
regulator that will make them do so.

I vote for mine with a view to doing the
best for the Australian community.

If you drank the milk and got ill, who would have to look after you
and yours? The public purse? If you could arrange to sign a legal
waiver of your (and your dependents') civil rights here, you probably
would be allowed to buy it.

Little buzzing fly wants to be Big Brother. If you had lived in the
United States in 1776 you probably would have been a Loyalist. "Can>t
drink my tea without paying huge taxes on it? Sure! Tax my milk too,
even though the cow is mine!"

--Hua Kul
[/quote]
Hua Kul,

Your history is somewhat flawed but of more import is the fact that owning a
production item (cow) does not impart to you the unrestricted right to sell
at profit a product from this production item which does not conform to the
standards deemed safe today and enforced by law.

I do not condemn your isolationist way of life but certainly do not wish
it>s short comings and risks foisted on friends and family.

Thank you

James Curts

Torsten Brinch · Guest

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 03:13:02 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
<gcouger@NOSPAMprovalue.net> wrote:

[quote]
"Torsten Brinch" <iaotb@inet.uni2.dk> wrote in message
news:ml6lgvsa4s8u6i8cdckrrsoanl5d88mu5a@4ax.com...

Thus far, countries such as China, Cuba, North Korea, Iraq, USA,
Libya, Burma, Pakistan, have refused to sign the ICC Treaty.

I have explained how treaties work in this country. They must pass the
senate. 100 Americans 2 from each state which give them a heavy conservitive
bias. The majority of people of this country see no reason that others have
any seventy over the US what so ever. We do not like the idea of progressive
taxes. We don>t like paying the lions share of he UN and we don>t like
doing you wet work and we will never allow a UN leader to lead US troop
again after turning tail and running and living our boys to die.
[/quote]
As librarian said, that>s the funny thing about America: Always that
dark undercurrent of racism, fervid nationalism, unhealthy patriotism,
smug I-got-mine-ism, lethal NIMBYism, and pompous assertion of moral
(and any other kind of) superiority at the drop of a bucket.

[quote]The Kyoto treaty has a better chance of passing than that one. The world can
cry whine and get it>s panties in a wad all it wants we will not put one
Americans life in foreign hands after the way we have been treated.
[/quote]
Also funny, how lethargically many Americans default to regurgitating
the propaganda lies their government has told them, despite having the
best access to the most modern information technology in the world.

FACT: The Court will have no jurisdiction over crimes committed on
U.S. soil unless the United States ratifies its treaty. As regards
American citizens accused of crimes overseas, they are already subject
to foreign jurisdiction. This is a basic and well-established
principle of international law. If an American citizen or service
member is accused today of a serious crime in Japan or Germany, for
example, Japan or Germany have the right to try him, even if the
United States wants to prosecute the crime itself. Countries that
ratify the Rome Treaty are simply exercising their sovereign right to
allow an international court to prosecute certain crimes committed on
their territory rather than conducting these trials themselves.

[quote]Too much
of the world disagrees with the way we do things. We will not give them
sacrificial lambs.
[/quote]
FACT: The ICC will provide defendants with greater due process rights
and protections than many countries to which the United States
extradites its own citizens. Moreover, unlike national courts that try
Americans, it must defer to American justice when the United States is
willing to investigate and prosecute an alleged crime itself.

[quote]I don>t think it is right but people like you, France, South Africa and the
Arab world we don>t trust for a fair trial.
[/quote]
FACT: The ICC Treaty establishes strict criteria for the selection of
the prosecutor and the judges, requiring experts whose reputation,
moral character and independence are beyond reproach. They will be
prohibited from any activity during their term in office that might
jeopardize their independence, and will be excused from particular
cases if there is any question of partiality. The judges will be
accountable to an assembly of member states and can be removed by a
simple vote of those countries in the unlikely event that they abuse
their powers.

Guest

Ron wrote:
[quote]
.

The Bully>s New Victim

Monsanto has declared war on another little guy. Monsanto is
a big bully, but I>ve got a secret that will bring them to
their knees.

Their timing was designed to create despair and suffering.
Their legal papers were filed on the Thursday before the
long July 4th holiday weekend. No time for attorneys to
review the complaint. A long Friday, Saturday, and Sunday
for Althea, Stanley, and William Bennett, third generation
owners of Oakhurst Dairy in Portland, Maine.

Their timing is also unfortunate for Monsanto>s
stockholders. As biotechnology is being debated around the
world, as the European Community considers easing rules
....[/quote]

[quote]
Monsanto has filed papers in federal court, arguing that
milk from cows treated with their genetically engineered
bovine growth hormone is no different from untreated milk.

That is a lie, of course, and Monsanto knows it.
[/quote]

The proof of that is that they hold a patent.
a patented product is by definition something unique and special,
otherwise it wouldn>t be patentable.
If the hormones have no effect on the cows, how are they
producing more milk per unit of feed?
I think Monsanto is planting the seeds for that patent to be revoked or
to reinvent physiology for a brave new world of hormones with no
effects.

[quote]
I have evidence that Monsanto>s own scientist (Margaret
Miller) confirmed the validity of an assay that can
determine the difference between genetically engineered milk
....[/quote]

Torsten Brinch · Guest

On 9 Jul 2003 00:34:34 -0700, jtnospam@yahoo.com (jitney) wrote:

[quote]--Rire d>un Américain! s'écria J.-T. Maston, mais voilà un casus
belli!... (De la terre à la lune, par Jules Verne)

Thus far, countries such as China, Cuba, North Korea, Iraq, USA,
Libya, Burma, Pakistan, have refused to sign the ICC Treaty.

Guilt by association? An old Stalinist tactic. Then by bleating in
French <snip
[/quote]
m-) I was just stating fact.

As regards the Jules Verne quote; I would have loved to quote that
little jewel from the American translation of Jules Verne>s famous
book. But, I found it to be curiously -- not only not translated --
but simply omitted there.

Rire d>un Américain! s'écria J.-T. Maston, mais voilà un casus
belli!...

Jim Webster · Guest

<cor@exchangenet.net> wrote in message
news:3F113281.94B61451@exchangenet.net...
[quote]all those in your family that where born! A bunch of fetuses probably
got the natural selection hatchet before having a chance of drinking
milk, thanks to having you and your relatives as idiotic parents.

Keep it up,
You might get one of those Darwin awards in the listeriosis category:
How to get rid of your progeny before is born!
[/quote]
tsk tsk, we are hysterical aren>t we

you are far more likely to suffer ill health from the stress of believing
half the loonie scares that circulate than you are from actually eating the
food

Jim Webster


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