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marcia
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 Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: "Alternative Health" quackery causes death |
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On Nov 29, 12:39 pm, "M.T. DuGatta" <inva...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
[quote]"Richard Schultz" <schu...@mail.biu.ack.il> wrote in message
news:ggdugj$nef$2@news.iucc.ac.il...
In misc.health.alternative Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:
: Why not type "homeopathic antibiotics" in google scholar and be
: surprised?
If you>re talking about Colloidal Silver, it>s all but useless.
[/quote]
Unless your goal is to turn your skin an ugly shade of gray-blue. |
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M.T. DuGatta
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: "Alternative Health" quackery causes death |
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"Richard Schultz" <schultr@mail.biu.ack.il> wrote in message
news:ggdugj$nef$2@news.iucc.ac.il...
[quote]In misc.health.alternative Citizen Jimserac <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote:
: Why not type "homeopathic antibiotics" in google scholar and be
: surprised?
[/quote]
If you>re talking about Colloidal Silver, it>s all but useless.
[quote]If you are trying to convince someone that "homeopathic antibiotic" is
not an oxymoron, you are, as an earlier poster has suggested, either
deluded or dishonest.
-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean. Do you have to salt your
truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?"[/quote] |
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M.T. DuGatta
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: "Alternative Health" quackery causes death |
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"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:vFIWk.12358$Ws1.5958@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
[quote]
"marcia" <marcia12345.c@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0829c323-86b5-477b-9c22-bd019d547da3@o2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 23, 12:14 am, jurim...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Nov 19, 1:02 pm, marcia <marcia1234...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 19, 2:57 pm, true.blue.bl...@gmail.com wrote:
Mary Ann Palmer wrote:
First, he made his own choice as was his right. That he made the
wrong
choice could very well be that he did not have the correct
information.
Clearly. All he needed was antibiotics.
I almost died of gangrene back in 1979 (from a closed wound trauma).
I>m certain I would have died without antibiotics, especially since
gangrene can (and did in my case) cause sepsis, which would require a
powerful course of IV antibiotics. Even with antibiotics, many people
die from multi-system failure by the time the infection becomes
systemic. This is definitely NOT something you would want to treat
with homeopathy.
Alternatives have been suppressed for years.
Alternatives aren>t "suppressed"- they simply don>t work.
I>ve yet to see anyone in this thread suggest an "alternative
antibiotic" (whatever the hell that is) that would have saved the
guy>s life.
Marcia (Mark):
Tim (Debbee):
How interesting that you would use an example that could have come
right out of the "Death by Medicine" statistics. You are admitting
that some "conventional" practitioner nearly killed you.
No, Tim, are you stupid (rhetorical)? My horse running through a fence
and crushing my leg against a post nearly killed me. Not getting
timely medical attention because I didn>t recognize the seriousness of
my injury nearly killed me. The doctors and nurses who treated me with
conventional medicine saved my life -- and leg -- for which I>m
profoundly grateful.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/msg/b47238df12888f43
*Anecdotes are not facts. They are, at best interesting stories. At
worst, outright lies*. Mark S Probert, Merrick, NY.
[/quote]
Anecdotes are meaningless. Anyone with sense would know that.
[quote]
Was the
operation done in a sewer? Did they ever clean the Operating room?
Was the duct work from the air conditioner ever cleaned out? Didn>t
you check to see if the instruments had EVER been cleaned before they
operated on you?
What operation? The only surgery I had was one small incision in my
leg for the insertion of a suction drain, under sterile conditions,
and no, it didn>t become infected. The gangrene was present before I
ever entered the hospital, as was the sepsis.
The situation you descibe is NORMAL in the Medical Establishment - and
they seem to think that their lack of cleanliness can be mitigated by
antibiotics?
Yeah, I agree. The medical establishment saved me from certain death,
as they have done for countless others. Conventional medicine
acknowledges nosocomial infections, but I didn>t acquire one during my
lengthy stay.
Amused in California...
snip the insult from marcia
Tim Bolen
[/quote] |
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Citizen Jimserac
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: Re: "Alternative Health" quackery causes death |
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On Nov 29, 1:48 am, pautrey2 <pautr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you have migraines? Typing crap like that should cause them.
Casey Anthony (MP),
Feverfew?
Migraine?
Traditional Medicine!
Homeopathy - Law Of Similars!
Material Dose!
Effective!
LOOK IT UP!
Paul
[/quote]
They will not look it up because they are denialists and
the key aspect of the denialist to maintain the pretense
that there are no vialble alternatives.
Citizen Jimserac |
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Citizen Jimserac
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: Re: Psychotic Homeopaths equate "Evidence" with "Fascism" |
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On Nov 28, 6:20 pm, henry.peregrine.law...@gmail.com wrote:
Comments unworthy of response, ignored.
Sorry.
Citizen Jimserac |
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Richard Schultz
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:45 am Post subject: Re: "Alternative Health" quackery causes death |
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In misc.health.alternative marcia <marcia12345.c@gmail.com> wrote:
: On Nov 29, 12:39 pm, "M.T. DuGatta" <inva...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
:> "Richard Schultz" <schu...@mail.biu.ack.il> wrote in message
:> news:ggdugj$nef$2@news.iucc.ac.il...
:> > In misc.health.alternative Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:
:> > : Why not type "homeopathic antibiotics" in google scholar and be
:> > : surprised?
:> If you>re talking about Colloidal Silver, it>s all but useless.
: Unless your goal is to turn your skin an ugly shade of gray-blue.
In which case, you can always get a gig as the hero of a novel by
Wilkie Collins.
-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"I>ve lost my harmonica, Albert." |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Psychotic Homeopaths equate "Evidence" with "Fascism" |
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Citizen Jimserac wrote:
[quote]On Nov 28, 6:20�pm, henry.peregrine.law...@gmail.com wrote:
Comments unworthy of response, ignored.
[/quote]
....because you support the dissemination of dishonest nonsense to
vulnerable, sick people.
People who lack medical qualifications and press others to use
ineffective treatment programs based on gobbledegook such as Homepathy
should be arrested and charged with offences under the trade practices
act or under criminal law where their treatment has either caused harm
or caused harm to occur by failure to apply timely correct treatment.
There is no intellectual basis for claiming tolerance is necessary for
the medical theories of Homeo-morons who demonstrate no understanding
of basic chemistry and a contempt for scientific method.
The article you>ve quoted demonstrates the hallmarks of a paranoid
psychosis, paraphrased thus: "People don>t listen to us [talking
rubbish] so they must be fascists out to get us". |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: "Alternative Health" quackery causes death: Gullible and |
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pautrey2 wrote:
[quote]Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you have migraines? Typing crap like that should cause them.
Feverfew?
Migraine?
[/quote]
What a wonderful example.
Feverfew contains many chemicals, one of which (Parthenolide) may be
effective in treating migraine.
The "Alternative Health" pharmacological industry, unfortunately, is
sloppy, careless, poorly regulated and dishonest, and patients who
decide to medicate with feverfew face the problems of *seriously*
variable dosage:
http://ajhp.highwire.org/cgi/content/abstract/59/16/1527
"Parthenolide content per dosage form varied 150-fold (from 0.02 to
3.0 mg), while percent parthenolide varied 5.3-fold (from 0.14% to
0.74%). If a person consumed the daily dose recommended on the label,
intake of dried feverfew leaf would range from 225 to 2246 mg/day, a
10-fold variation, while intake of parthenolide would range from 0.06
to 9.7 mg/day, a 160-fold variation. Large variations were observed in
the parthenolide contents and daily intake as recommended by the
labeling in commercial feverfew products."
Additionally, Feverfew contains numerous other chemicals which could
cause the following list of side-effects:
Investigation of possible genetoxic effects of feverfew in migraine
patients. Hum Toxicol. 1987 Nov;6(6):533–534.
A platelet phospholipase inhibitor from the medicinal herb feverfew
(Tanacetum parthenium). Prostaglandins Leukot Med. 1982 Jun;8(6):653–
660
Extracts of feverfew inhibit granule secretion in blood platelets and
polymorphonuclear leucocytes. Lancet. 1985 May 11;1(8437):1071–1074.
The effect of an aqueous extract of Tanacetum parthenium L. on
arachidonic acid metabolism by rat peritoneal leucocytes. J Pharm
Pharmacol. 1986 Jan;38(1):71–72
The activity of compounds extracted from feverfew on histamine release
from rat mast cells. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1987 Jun;39(6):466–470.
Extracts of feverfew inhibit mitogen-induced human peripheral blood
mononuclear cell proliferation and cytokine mediated responses: a
cytotoxic effect. Br J Clin Pharmacol. 1987 Jan;23(1):81–83.
Compounds extracted from feverfew that have anti-secretory activity
contain an alpha-methylene butyrolactone unit. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1986
Sep;38(9):709–712.
Extracts of feverfew may inhibit platelet behaviour via neutralization
of sulphydryl groups. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1987 Jun;39(6):459–465. |
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Citizen Jimserac
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Psychotic Homeopaths equate "Evidence" with "Fascism" |
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On Nov 30, 3:13 pm, henry.peregrine.law...@gmail.com wrote:
Ignored. |
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Citizen Jimserac
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: "Alternative Health" quackery causes death: Gullible and |
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On Nov 30, 3:24 pm, henry.peregrine.law...@gmail.com wrote:
[quote]pautrey2 wrote:
Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you have migraines? Typing crap like that should cause them.
Feverfew?
Migraine?
What a wonderful example.
Feverfew contains many chemicals, one of which (Parthenolide) may be
effective in treating migraine.
The "Alternative Health" pharmacological industry, unfortunately, is
sloppy, careless, poorly regulated and dishonest, and patients who
decide to medicate with feverfew face the problems of *seriously*
variable dosage:
http://ajhp.highwire.org/cgi/content/abstract/59/16/1527
"Parthenolide content per dosage form varied 150-fold (from 0.02 to
3.0 mg), while percent parthenolide varied 5.3-fold (from 0.14% to
0.74%). If a person consumed the daily dose recommended on the label,
intake of dried feverfew leaf would range from 225 to 2246 mg/day, a
10-fold variation, while intake of parthenolide would range from 0.06
to 9.7 mg/day, a 160-fold variation. Large variations were observed in
the parthenolide contents and daily intake as recommended by the
labeling in commercial feverfew products."
Additionally, Feverfew contains numerous other chemicals which could
cause the following list of side-effects:
Investigation of possible genetoxic effects of feverfew in migraine
patients. Hum Toxicol. 1987 Nov;6(6):533–534.
A platelet phospholipase inhibitor from the medicinal herb feverfew
(Tanacetum parthenium). Prostaglandins Leukot Med. 1982 Jun;8(6):653–
660
Extracts of feverfew inhibit granule secretion in blood platelets and
polymorphonuclear leucocytes. Lancet. 1985 May 11;1(8437):1071–1074.
The effect of an aqueous extract of Tanacetum parthenium L. on
arachidonic acid metabolism by rat peritoneal leucocytes. J Pharm
Pharmacol. 1986 Jan;38(1):71–72
The activity of compounds extracted from feverfew on histamine release
from rat mast cells. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1987 Jun;39(6):466–470.
Extracts of feverfew inhibit mitogen-induced human peripheral blood
mononuclear cell proliferation and cytokine mediated responses: a
cytotoxic effect. Br J Clin Pharmacol. 1987 Jan;23(1):81–83.
Compounds extracted from feverfew that have anti-secretory activity
contain an alpha-methylene butyrolactone unit. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1986
Sep;38(9):709–712.
Extracts of feverfew may inhibit platelet behaviour via neutralization
of sulphydryl groups. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1987 Jun;39(6):459–465.
[/quote]
There exists a medical system known as Homeopathy
whose Migraine remedies contain NO side effects.
Does it work? THAT is under research.
Some studies show positive benefit for these remedies,
some do not.
In high dilution Homeopathic remedies, there are NO side effects.
Question: Can high dilution substances have any biological
effect?
Answer: Research indicates it might - current research going
back to M. Ennis inidicates, for example, that basophil cells
can be stimulated to release histamine by a substance in which
all molecules of the stimulant have been diluted away.
How is this possible? Unknown - it is being researched
by scientists.
Current research?
Here:
M. Ennis, Inflammation Research vol 53, p.181
Any recent research suporting this, replication?
Yes, HERE:
1: Lorenz I, Schneider EM, Stolz P, Brack A, Strube J.
Influence of the diluent on the effect of highly diluted histamine
on
basophil
activation.
Homeopathy. 2003 Jan;92(1):11-8.
PMID: 12587990 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
2: Sainte-Laudy J, Belon P.
Use of four different flow cytometric protocols for the analysis of
human
basophil activation. Application to the study of the biological
activity of high
dilutions of histamine.
Inflamm Res. 2006 Apr;55 Suppl 1:S23-4. No abstract available.
PMID: 16705375 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
3: Sainte-Laudy J, Boujenaini N, Belon P.
Confirmation of biological effects of high dilutions. Effects of
submolecular
concentrations of histamine and 1-, 3- and 4-methylhistamines on
human
basophil
activation.
Inflamm Res. 2008;57 Suppl 1:S27-8. No abstract available.
PMID: 18345504 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
4: Sainte-Laudy J, Belon P.
Improvement of flow cytometric analysis of basophil activation
inhibition by high
histamine dilutions. A novel basophil specific marker: CD 203c.
Homeopathy. 2006 Jan;95(1):3-8.
PMID: 16399248 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
What about calling research scientists and MD>s and professional
Homeopathic
physicians who utilize Homeopathy quacks and "con" artists?
Only a medical FASCIST would do that - someone who wants to stop the
research
based on innuendo, then complain that there is no research to support
them!
And now a question for you - where is the EVIDENCE for knee
replacement operations,
heart surgeries, CHEMOTHERAPY? Can YOU provide statistics for the
survival rate
of patient in hospitals? Could some of the people supporting these
thearapies be quacks?
It wouls seem the DEATH RATE FROM ALLOPATH-QUACKERY is somewhat higher
than ANY alternative system of medicine. Maybe its time for some
reform, for looking
at the "EVIDENCE" for this poltically protected system of medicine....
the REAL EVIDENCE,
OR LACK THEREOF.
What are the deaths from pharmaceutical drugs each year? Perhaps you
are looking for
quacks in the wrong place and should start focusing on Pharma-quacks
too.
How about side effcts of Pharmaceutical drugs - have any statistics
for that?
Let>s see exactly WHICH system of medicine is not exactly what it
quacked up to be.
Citizen Jimserac |
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Richard Schultz
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: "Alternative Health" quackery causes death: Gullible and |
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In misc.health.alternative Citizen Jimserac <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote:
: There exists a medical system known as Homeopathy
: whose Migraine remedies contain NO side effects.
They also don>t include any effects that would be classified as
curing the condition.
: Question: Can high dilution substances have any biological
: effect?
: Answer:
No.
: How is this possible?
If you clap your hands, Tinker Bell will be magically restored to life.
-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You don>t even have a clue about which clue you>re missing." |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: "Alternative Health" quackery causes death: Gullible and |
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Citizen Jimserac wrote:
[quote]On Nov 30, 3:24�pm, henry.peregrine.law...@gmail.com wrote:
pautrey2 wrote:
Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you have migraines? Typing crap like that should cause them.
Feverfew?
Migraine?
What a wonderful example.
Feverfew contains many chemicals, one of which (Parthenolide) may be
effective in treating migraine.
The "Alternative Health" pharmacological industry, unfortunately, is
sloppy, careless, poorly regulated and dishonest, and patients who
decide to medicate with feverfew face the problems of *seriously*
variable dosage:
http://ajhp.highwire.org/cgi/content/abstract/59/16/1527
"Parthenolide content per dosage form varied 150-fold (from 0.02 to
3.0 mg), while percent parthenolide varied 5.3-fold (from 0.14% to
0.74%). If a person consumed the daily dose recommended on the label,
intake of dried feverfew leaf would range from 225 to 2246 mg/day, a
10-fold variation, while intake of parthenolide would range from 0.06
to 9.7 mg/day, a 160-fold variation. Large variations were observed in
the parthenolide contents and daily intake as recommended by the
labeling in commercial feverfew products."
Additionally, Feverfew contains numerous other chemicals which could
cause the following list of �side-effects:
Investigation of possible genetoxic effects of feverfew in migraine
patients. Hum Toxicol. 1987 Nov;6(6):533�534.
A platelet phospholipase inhibitor from the medicinal herb feverfew
(Tanacetum parthenium). Prostaglandins Leukot Med. 1982 Jun;8(6):653�
660
Extracts of feverfew inhibit granule secretion in blood platelets and
polymorphonuclear leucocytes. Lancet. 1985 May 11;1(8437):1071�1074.
The effect of an aqueous extract of Tanacetum parthenium L. on
arachidonic acid metabolism by rat peritoneal leucocytes. J Pharm
Pharmacol. 1986 Jan;38(1):71�72
The activity of compounds extracted from feverfew on histamine release
from rat mast cells. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1987 Jun;39(6):466�470.
Extracts of feverfew inhibit mitogen-induced human peripheral blood
mononuclear cell proliferation and cytokine mediated responses: a
cytotoxic effect. Br J Clin Pharmacol. 1987 Jan;23(1):81�83.
Compounds extracted from feverfew that have anti-secretory activity
contain an alpha-methylene butyrolactone unit. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1986
Sep;38(9):709�712.
Extracts of feverfew may inhibit platelet behaviour via neutralization
of sulphydryl groups. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1987 Jun;39(6):459�465..
There exists a medical system known as Homeopathy
whose Migraine remedies contain NO side effects.
[/quote]
ROTFL!
That>s because they contain no "effects" in the first place, for
reasons which are obvious to anybody who managed to stay awake during
their high school chemistry lessons.
[quote]Does it work? THAT is under research.
[/quote]
In other words: "no, it doesn>t work".
[quote]Question: Can high dilution substances have any biological
effect?
Answer: Research indicates it might - <SNIP
[/quote]
In other words, in reality, it is clear they have no effect, although
the hard-of-understanding are still trying to gin-up some "research"
to support their pathetic fantasies about this 19th-Century quackery. |
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D. C. Sessions
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Psychotic Homeopaths equate "Evidence" with "Fascism" |
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Citizen Jimserac wrote:
[quote]On Nov 30, 3:13 pm, henry.peregrine.law...@gmail.com wrote:
Ignored.
[/quote]
You do seem to be good at maintaining your ignorance, Pannozzi.
--
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+ |
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D. C. Sessions
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: "Alternative Health" quackery causes death: Gullible and |
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Citizen Jimserac wrote:
[quote]There exists a medical system known as Homeopathy
whose Migraine remedies contain NO side effects.
[/quote]
And no front effects either; the only "back effects" are
to the wallet.
--
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+ |
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Mark Probert
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: Psychotic Homeopaths equate "Evidence" with "Fascism" |
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On Dec 2, 8:05 am, Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 30, 3:13 pm, henry.peregrine.law...@gmail.com wrote:
Ignored.
[/quote]
In one word, Jimmy shows just how dumb he is.
That is amazingly efficient. |
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