Science and Technology news... :: View topic - "Alternative Health" quackery causes death

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 19, 9:47 am, "Mary Ann Palmer" <mapalmer...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
[quote] First, he made his own choice as was his right. That he made the wrong
choice could very well be that he did not have the correct information.
Alternatives have been suppressed for years. He might better to have used
maggots for the Gangrene. But how and where would he get them? Alternative
Medicine did not cause his death, lack of information did. Perhaps if the
"mainstreamers" would shut up, more helpful information would be easily
available?<humbert.engled...@gmail.com> wrote in message

[/quote]
Quite correct.

You will note that the mainstreamers fall curiously silent at the
several deaths from the unfortunates who relied
on Vioxx but the slightest variance in alternative medicine practice
causes them to act as though it is a threat to civilization -
actually it is a threat to the "civilization" of instituiionalized
pharmaceutical companies and their unhealthy allicance
with ONE medical system to the exclusion of all else.

A profound threat.

Hence their hysteria.

Citizen Jimserac

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 19, 10:52 am, rpautrey2 <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]MP:
How many college biology courses did you pass?
How many college physics courses did you pass?
How many college microbiology courses did you pass?
How many college geography courses did you pass?
How many college A&P courses did you pass?
How many college electronics courses did you pass?
How many college math courses did you pass?

You>re a two-bit, second rate, disbarred attorney.
There>s no lie you won>t tell.
You have absolutely no scientific background.

You>re an an idiot and a cyberpunk!

[/quote]
Please do NOT respond to the pretentious idiot calling
himself Mark Probert.

Citizen Jimserac

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 19, 2:57 pm, true.blue.bl...@gmail.com wrote:
[quote]Mary Ann Palmer wrote:

First, he made his own choice as was his right. That he made the wrong
choice could very well be that he did not have the correct information.

Clearly. All he needed was antibiotics.

Alternatives have been suppressed for years.

Alternatives aren>t "suppressed"- they simply don>t work.
[/quote]
Wrong again. There are antimicrobial, antifungal and antibacterial
herbs that have been known for quite some time.

Citizen Jimserac

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 19, 2:59 pm, true.blue.bl...@gmail.com wrote:
[quote]rpautrey2 wrote:
Mr. Wisdom:
Name your treatment protocol.

It>s too late for that - the patient>s dead, due to his belief in
"alternative" medicine.
[/quote]
EXCUSE ME? Some patients have died taking
pharmaceutical drugs, for example Vioxx -> SHALL WE BAN
ALL OF MEDICINE BECAUSE OF THIS?

SHALL WE CONCLUDE THAT ALL PHARMACEUTICALS DON>T WORK
BASED ON THIS?

Such is your argument, if such leaps of non-thinking
and sweeping generalitzations could be so dignified.

Citizen Jimserac

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 19, 5:30 pm, true.blue.bl...@gmail.com wrote:
[quote]drcee...@insightbb.com wrote:
On Nov 19, 2:59 pm, true.blue.bl...@gmail.com wrote:
rpautrey2 wrote:
Mr. Wisdom:
Name your treatment protocol.

It>s too late for that - the patient>s dead, due to his belief in
"alternative" medicine.

Do keep in mind that nearly 1,000 patients per day will die due to
their belief in allopathic medicine,

"allopathic medicine"? Do you mean evidence-based medicine? Where do
you get those figures from?
[/quote]
Excuse me did you say "evidence" based medicine - looks like
another fool has been taken in by that one.

The vast majority of standard medical procedures were developed
clinically and DO NOT HAVE DOUBLE BLINDED PLACEBO CONTROLLED
RANDOMIZED TESTS behind them, if THAT is what you mean by "evidence".

Quick, cite some figures for "evidence" testing of knee replacement
operations,
uterine fibroid removal, heart surgeries, chemotherpapy. On that
last "evidence"
based procedure, go look up the survival statistics both long and
short term
and get shocked.

For alternative medicine, the "evidence" is a wee bit more specific ->
the patient is cured.

Citizen Jimserac
[quote]
their blind fath in monopoly doctors,

What the hell is that? Real Doctors who are regulated by a
professional body and who are required to demonstrate knowledge and
skills in biology?

I suppose you prefer the charlatans who clearly would flunk a high-
school biology course and recommend nonsense and flumblmblum instead?

and the vain beleif that the docs can "poison" the ill into
becoming healthy.

Whatever that means.
Perhaps you have a homeopathic "alternative" to performing a coronary
bypass?

As we>ve seen, your "alternative" to antibiotics doesn>t exist.[/quote]

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 21, 4:11 pm, rpautrey2 <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]MP (Lame Brain),

Why do you continuously call me a homeopath
when in reality I>m not? Describing me as a naturopath
would be far more accurate. Can>t you do better than
that? Your 'Barrett Quackpot Cult' is on the retreat. You
are desperate. There>s no lie a disbarred attorney
won>t tell.

Casey Anthony Syndrome!

Paul
[/quote]
He is an idiot, you are WASTING YOUR TIME
attempting to communicate with him in any way.

He is only interested in innuendo, nothing more.

Citizen Jimserac

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 26, 1:08 am, humbert.engled...@gmail.com wrote:
[quote]CitizenJimseracwrote:
On Nov 19, 4:02 pm, marcia <marcia1234...@gmail.com> wrote:

Alternatives aren>t "suppressed"- they simply don>t work.

I>ve yet to see anyone in this thread suggest an "alternative
antibiotic" (whatever the hell that is) that would have saved the
guy>s life.

Why not type "homeopathic antibiotics" in google scholar and be
surprised?

LoL! A bunch of references to whacky sites that seem to believe that
Homeopathy actually does something.

Here>s a clue: Homeopathy is pure and unadulterated 18th Century
quackery and it does not work, and cannot work. There is absolutely no
scientific basis for the nonsense Homeopathy purveys.
[/quote]
Here>s a clue for YOU - all your doing is parroting a lot of anti-
Homeopathy
media stuff. STEP NUMBER 1 -> stop and think WHAT INDUSTRY MY
FIND THE IDEA OF NON-SURGICAL, LOW COST DRUGS THREATENING?

STEP NUMBER 2 -> GO TO THE INTERNET AND TRY AND SEARCH PAST
ALL THE ANTI-HOMEOPATHY INNUENDO AND SEE IF THERE IS ANY
RESEARCH SUPPORTING THE CRAZY IDEA THAT SUBSTANCES DILUTED
PAST THE AVOGADRO LIMIT COULD POSSIBILY HAVE BIOLOGICAL INFLUENCE.

There is - you will find several experiments, for example the work of
M. Ennis
who was acutally a skeptic of some work by a French researcher
(NO, it was NOT Benveniste) and decided to repeat his experiment. She
found
that that histamine production by basophil cells was stimulated by a
substance
which had all the molecules of the stimulant diluted away. She
published this
research in the journal "Inflammation Ressearch", vol 53, p181
and several international labs (3 out of 4) repeated her experiment
and confirmed the results.

In the spirit of anti-Homeopathy innuendo and hysteria such as you
represent
in your statements, a BBC Horizon documentary PURPORTED to repeat
Ennis' experiment in 2001 in a documentary on Homeopathy seen by
millions.
The results appeared to be negative - but after months of questioning
them,
the producers finally admitted that they had never iintended to repeat
her experiment.
The inexperienced researcher who performed her experiment, added a
chemical which
KILLS basophils cells, thus ruining the experiment either by design or
incompetency.

Ennis' experiments have been confirmed in recent research:

1: Lorenz I, Schneider EM, Stolz P, Brack A, Strube J.
Influence of the diluent on the effect of highly diluted histamine
on
basophil
activation.
Homeopathy. 2003 Jan;92(1):11-8.
PMID: 12587990 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

2: Sainte-Laudy J, Belon P.
Use of four different flow cytometric protocols for the analysis of
human
basophil activation. Application to the study of the biological
activity of high
dilutions of histamine.
Inflamm Res. 2006 Apr;55 Suppl 1:S23-4. No abstract available.
PMID: 16705375 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

3: Sainte-Laudy J, Boujenaini N, Belon P.
Confirmation of biological effects of high dilutions. Effects of
submolecular
concentrations of histamine and 1-, 3- and 4-methylhistamines on
human
basophil
activation.
Inflamm Res. 2008;57 Suppl 1:S27-8. No abstract available.
PMID: 18345504 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

4: Sainte-Laudy J, Belon P.
Improvement of flow cytometric analysis of basophil activation
inhibition by high
histamine dilutions. A novel basophil specific marker: CD 203c.
Homeopathy. 2006 Jan;95(1):3-8.
PMID: 16399248 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

By repeating insults to the GENUINE SCIENTSTS
working on the theory of Homepathy and by insulting
the numerous MD>s and other health professionals working
as Homeopathic doctor, all you are doing is contributing
to the Naziistic attempt to restrict freedom of choice
and ban an entire system of medicine. It>s been
tried before. THE NAZIS LOST.

Citizen Jimserac

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 26, 6:17 am, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:

POSTINGS PERMANENTLY IGNORED.

Richard Schultz · Guest

In misc.health.alternative Citizen Jimserac <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote:

: Wrong again. There are antimicrobial, antifungal and antibacterial
: herbs that have been known for quite some time.

Since you don>t believe that disease is caused by microbes or fungi, what
is the relevance of your comment? That>s leaving aside your apparent lack
of awareness that mainstream evidence-based medicine does not reject the
notion that plants may contain substances useful to medicine. Or do you
consider paclitaxel and aspirin (inter alia) to be "alternative" treatments
for cancer and headaches, respectively?

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You don>t even have a clue about which clue you>re missing."

Guest

On Nov 26, 9:50 am, schu...@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
[quote]In misc.health.alternative Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:

: Wrong again. There are antimicrobial, antifungal and antibacterial
: herbs that have been known for quite some time.

Since you don>t believe that disease is caused by microbes or fungi, what
is the relevance of your comment? That>s leaving aside your apparent lack
of awareness that mainstream evidence-based medicine does not reject the
notion that plants may contain substances useful to medicine. Or do you
consider paclitaxel and aspirin (inter alia) to be "alternative" treatments
for cancer and headaches, respectively?

-----
Richard Schultz schu...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You don>t even have a clue about which clue you>re missing."
[/quote]
Say, Schlutz, if you are a chemist you should know that drugs have
traditionally been developed through three phases:

1. Isolate the active ingredient in an herb or botanical.

2. Chemically synthesize the compound and chemically modify it so
that it can be patented.

3. Make the original herb or botanical illegal to sell or advertise
( thus protecting your drug from competition ).

DrCee
You cannot secure nor restore health with pus or poisons.

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 26, 9:50 am, schu...@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
[quote]In misc.health.alternative CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:

: Wrong again. There are antimicrobial, antifungal and antibacterial
: herbs that have been known for quite some time.

Since you don>t believe that disease is caused by microbes or fungi, what
is the relevance of your comment? That>s leaving aside your apparent lack
of awareness that mainstream evidence-based medicine does not reject the
notion that plants may contain substances useful to medicine.
[/quote]
I rejoice that you are able to admit this.

To admit this is the first step on the road to the
full acceptance of alternative medicine.

I do want to make note of your mistaken belief regarding "evidence'
based medicine,
indicative that you>ve got a little "awareness" problem of your own.

The grand delusion that ANY medicine is "evidence" based has been made
part of the attacks on the "Homeopath" crowd for quite some time. The
claim, for example, that the mechanism of action of the Homeopathic
remedies is unknown and that this somehow discredits their use is
laughable considering the huge number of standard pharmaceutical
drugs, including those designed for psychiatric purposes, for which
the exact mechanism of action remains unknown.
Why even aspirin>s mode of action was, not so long ago, unknown.

The attempt to reduce medicine to some laboratory exercise in
scientific reasoning is doomed to failure precisely because
a human being is not some collection of mechanical parts which can be
replaced, radiated, or medicated at will in order
to restore proper action to the whole. Hence the success of
alternative medicine systems such as Homeopathy.

Look in any 1,000 page Homeopathic repertory and observe the
incredible depth and breadth of the symptom patterns. Observe that
these facts were built up laboriously from provings on real live human
volunteers who took months to complete the study, meticulously
recording the effects, mental as well as physical, under varying
doseages of a substance which was unknown to them. No laboratory
animals needed.

Irrespective of the veracity of the theory of Homeopathic
now undergoing serious scientific research (as opposed to the rather
pathetic "placebo" effect rationaliations used by some to easily
dismiss it and, of course, cancel the research), standard medicine
might learn a thing or two from such an approach.

Citizen Jimserac

Richard Schultz · Guest

In misc.health.alternative Citizen Jimserac <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote:
: On Nov 26, 9:50?am, schu...@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
:> In misc.health.alternative CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:

:> : Wrong again. ?There are antimicrobial, antifungal and antibacterial
:> : herbs that have been known for quite some time.

:> Since you don>t believe that disease is caused by microbes or fungi, what
:> is the relevance of your comment? That>s leaving aside your apparent lack
:> of awareness that mainstream evidence-based medicine does not reject the
:> notion that plants may contain substances useful to medicine.

: I rejoice that you are able to admit this.

What "admission"? What I write is hardly new. On the other hand, you
seem to be unaware of the inconsistency between your support for homeopathy
and your claim that antifungal or antimicrobial activity is somehow
relevant to the cure of disease, which, as I said before, is evidence
that you are either deluded, very stupid, or a liar. Not that those
three categories are mutually exclusive.

: To admit this is the first step on the road to the
: full acceptance of alternative medicine.

No, to "admit this" is to acknowledge that nature is sometimes very
clever in its application of natural laws. "Alternative" medicine is based
on the belief that there *are* no natural laws.

: I do want to make note of your mistaken belief regarding "evidence'
: based medicine,
: indicative that you>ve got a little "awareness" problem of your own.

What mistaken belief would that be? The "mistaken" belief that there is
such a thing as objective reality?

: The grand delusion that ANY medicine is "evidence" based has been made
: part of the attacks on the "Homeopath" crowd for quite some time.

Next time you wonder why people call you stupid, please keep the above
in mind.

: The claim, for example, that the mechanism of action of the Homeopathic
: remedies is unknown and that this somehow discredits their use is
: laughable considering the huge number of standard pharmaceutical
: drugs, including those designed for psychiatric purposes, for which
: the exact mechanism of action remains unknown.

The next time people call you a liar, please keep the above in mind. You
have been told enough times why your argument is a straw man that you
should be able to recognize by now that it is meaningless.

: Why even aspirin>s mode of action was, not so long ago, unknown.

There is a difference between not knowing the mechanism of something that
does not violate fundamental physical laws and recognizing that something
cannot work because it violates fundamental physical law. Before the
mode of action of aspirin was known, what fundamental physical law was the
claim that aspirin works as an analgesic believed to be violating?

: The attempt to reduce medicine to some laboratory exercise in
: scientific reasoning is doomed to failure precisely because
: a human being is not some collection of mechanical parts which can be
: replaced, radiated, or medicated at will in order
: to restore proper action to the whole. Hence the success of
: alternative medicine systems such as Homeopathy.

I have stated on more than one occasion my belief that one reason that
alternative medicine "works" is that its practitioners are more likely
than HMO doctors to consider the patient as a whole person rather than
as a machine with a limited number of broken parts, and that this aspect
of healing is one that should be emphasized more in medical education.

That belief, believe it or not, is not inconsistent with the belief that
medicines work because they affect specific biological and biochemical
processes, and that these modes of action can be understood in principle.

: Look in any 1,000 page Homeopathic repertory and observe the
: incredible depth and breadth of the symptom patterns. Observe that
: these facts were built up laboriously from provings on real live human
: volunteers who took months to complete the study, meticulously
: recording the effects, mental as well as physical, under varying
: doseages of a substance which was unknown to them. No laboratory
: animals needed.

And yet, whenever such tests are done correctly, no effect is seen.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Apparently, you take me for a complete fool."
"Yeah -- more or less."
Bob & Ray, "Garish Summit"

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 27, 3:10 am, schu...@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
[quote]In misc.health.alternative CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:
: On Nov 26, 9:50?am, schu...@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
:> In misc.health.alternative CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:

:> : Wrong again. ?There are antimicrobial, antifungal and antibacterial
:> : herbs that have been known for quite some time.

:> Since you don>t believe that disease is caused by microbes or fungi, what
:> is the relevance of your comment? That>s leaving aside your apparent lack
:> of awareness that mainstream evidence-based medicine does not reject the
:> notion that plants may contain substances useful to medicine.

: I rejoice that you are able to admit this.

What "admission"? What I write is hardly new. On the other hand, you
seem to be unaware of the inconsistency between your support for homeopathy
and your claim that antifungal or antimicrobial activity is somehow
relevant to the cure of disease, which, as I said before, is evidence
that you are either deluded, very stupid, or a liar. Not that those
three categories are mutually exclusive.
[/quote]
Or .... could it be that Doctor Richard Schultz has become
so enamored of the world of theory that he has forgotten the world
of reality.

LIFE...my dear Schultz, it>s all about life, not test tubes.

What about this inconsistency you are spouting about between my
support for Homeopathy and my claim that antifungal, or antimicrobial
activity is
somehow relevant to the cure of disease - THERE IS NO INCONSISTENCY
my dear Schultz except in your test tube chemical equations oxidation
reduction
reaction laden head - NO INCONSISTENCY at all.

That>s what INTEGRATIVE MEDICINE is all about - the INTEGRATION
(do look up the word) of diverse, even disparate system of medicine.

Do you know what they do in China - they have big hospitals with a
western medicine
wing on one side and a Chinease Acupuncture-Herbology-Traditional
Chinese Medcine
wing on the other side. Some patients don>t do well or get no help
from the western wing
get shunted right over to the TCM wing for Acupuncture and Chinese
Herbology treatments - it
often helps where western medicine did nothing. Some patients get
nothing from the Acpuncture/Herbology,
they get scooted right over to the western wing for more (ahem)
western treatments (vee will help you - vee
will FORCE you to be better, ya?).

Welcome to reality - slow learners keep to the right....

So what about the disease theory. I told you I do NOT AGREE with Cees
ideas, though I have
not rejected them - I>m still evaluating, thinking about it, reading,
LEARNING - something you
should try before spouting your knee jerk Aristotelian reactions.

What about Homeopathy disease theory and modern
disease theory? Homeopathy does not claim to address
directly microbes and fungi. Well Schultizie old stale academic dude
that you are,
did it ever occur to your monodimensional, straight line hypnotize the
chicken,
see things only one way mentality that BOTH views might be correct?

Entertain that idea and to reinforce it, read some Emerson, for
example
the part where he says that "consistency is the...." (you can fill in
the rest).
[quote]
: To admit this is the first step on the road to the
: full acceptance of alternative medicine.

No, to "admit this" is to acknowledge that nature is sometimes very
clever in its application of natural laws. "Alternative" medicine is based
on the belief that there *are* no natural laws.

: I do want to make note of your mistaken belief regarding "evidence'
: based medicine,
: indicative that you>ve got a little "awareness" problem of your own.

What mistaken belief would that be? The "mistaken" belief that there is
such a thing as objective reality?
[/quote]
NO my dear Schultz, the mistaken belief that reality for modern
medicine
is somehow different in Homeopathy. It is (surpirse!) the SAME
REALITY
and in that reality, sometimes one system of medicine works,
SOMETIMES THE OTHER. The absurd delusion that one system has
"evidence' and the other does not straw man of GODZILLIAN proportions.
The patient is CURED - THAT IS THE REALITY, that is the EVIDENCE.
Get it now? Slow learners stay to the right.

[quote]: The grand delusion that ANY medicine is "evidence" based has been made
: part of the attacks on the "Homeopath" crowd for quite some time.

Next time you wonder why people call you stupid, please keep the above
in mind.
[/quote]
No wonder about your stupidity.

[quote]: The claim, for example, that the mechanism of action of the Homeopathic
: remedies is unknown and that this somehow discredits their use is
: laughable considering the huge number of standard pharmaceutical
: drugs, including those designed for psychiatric purposes, for which
: the exact mechanism of action remains unknown.

The next time people call you a liar, please keep the above in mind. You
have been told enough times why your argument is a straw man that you
should be able to recognize by now that it is meaningless.
[/quote]
Excuse me? Consult any pharmacology text book - the mechanism
of action of a huge number of currently prescribed pharmaceutical
drugs
is UNKNOWN. You>re not going to make me post some examples of
this are you? NO. You can>t be THAT STUPID.
[quote]
: Why even aspirin>s mode of action was, not so long ago, unknown.

There is a difference between not knowing the mechanism of something that
does not violate fundamental physical laws and recognizing that something
[/quote]
No no no my dear Schultz, there is NO VIOLATION OF PHYSICAL LAWS
BY HOMEOPATHY. False premise denied, remainder of statement goes
bye bye!!!!!!

[quote]: The attempt to reduce medicine to some laboratory exercise in
: scientific reasoning is doomed to failure precisely because
: a human being is not some collection of mechanical parts which can be
: replaced, radiated, or medicated at will in order
: to restore proper action to the whole. Hence the success of
: alternative medicine systems such as Homeopathy.

I have stated on more than one occasion my belief that one reason that
alternative medicine "works" is that its practitioners are more likely
than HMO doctors to consider the patient as a whole person rather than
as a machine with a limited number of broken parts, and that this aspect
of healing is one that should be emphasized more in medical education.
[/quote]
WOW, EVERYONE LOOK !!!! THIS IS HISTORIC, DOCTOR SCHULTZ
IS IN AGREEMENT WITH CITIZEN JIMSERAC (BANNERSS WAVING, MUSIC
PLAYING,
SOUZA MARCHES, CROWDS CHEERING)

And now for the next step Schultz, if the person is a unified whole,
then we need a system of
medicine that treats that wholeness, that "implicate order" (thanks
Bohm!!, crazy book but great statement),
eh?

[quote]
That belief, believe it or not, is not inconsistent with the belief that
medicines work because they affect specific biological and biochemical
processes, and that these modes of action can be understood in principle.

: Look in any 1,000 page Homeopathic repertory and observe the
: incredible depth and breadth of the symptom patterns. Observe that
: these facts were built up laboriously from provings on real live human
: volunteers who took months to complete the study, meticulously
: recording the effects, mental as well as physical, under varying
: doseages of a substance which was unknown to them. No laboratory
: animals needed.

And yet, whenever such tests are done correctly, no effect is seen.
[/quote]
The master of sweeping generalizations has spoken.

That IS the issue in dispute and will require RESEARCH.

Are you..... UP TO IT old dude?

Citizen Jimserac
(that Dr. Schultz does seem to be slowly getting it. Who knows, in
time...)

Richard Schultz · Guest

In misc.health.alternative Citizen Jimserac <Jimserac@gmail.com> wrote:

: What about this inconsistency you are spouting about between my
: support for Homeopathy and my claim that antifungal, or antimicrobial
: activity is somehow relevant to the cure of disease - THERE IS NO
: INCONSISTENCY my dear Schultz except in your test tube chemical equations
: oxidation reduction reaction laden head - NO INCONSISTENCY at all.

For someone who claims to have some knowledge of homeopathy, you are
remarkably unfaimiliar with the homeopathic theory of what causes disease
and why homeopathic medicines are expected to work under that theory.

: So what about the disease theory. I told you I do NOT AGREE with Cees
: ideas, though I have not rejected them - I>m still evaluating, thinking
: about it, reading, LEARNING - something you
: should try before spouting your knee jerk Aristotelian reactions.

Unlike you, I am interested in learning about the real world.

:> : The claim, for example, that the mechanism of action of the Homeopathic
:> : remedies is unknown and that this somehow discredits their use is
:> : laughable considering the huge number of standard pharmaceutical
:> : drugs, including those designed for psychiatric purposes, for which
:> : the exact mechanism of action remains unknown.

:> The next time people call you a liar, please keep the above in mind. ?You
:> have been told enough times why your argument is a straw man that you
:> should be able to recognize by now that it is meaningless.

: Excuse me? Consult any pharmacology text book - the mechanism
: of action of a huge number of currently prescribed pharmaceutical
: drugs is UNKNOWN. You>re not going to make me post some examples of
: this are you? NO. You can>t be THAT STUPID.

But you can -- at least from the complete lack of reading comprehension
that you have demonstrated.

:> : Why even aspirin>s mode of action was, not so long ago, unknown.

:> There is a difference between not knowing the mechanism of something that
:> does not violate fundamental physical laws and recognizing that something

: No no no my dear Schultz, there is NO VIOLATION OF PHYSICAL LAWS
: BY HOMEOPATHY.

Apparently you know about as much about physical laws as you do about
everything else related to science -- i.e., nothing.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
". . . for while he was not dumber than an ox, he was not any smarter."
-- James Thurber, _My Life and Hard Times_

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 27, 11:15 am, schu...@mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
[quote]In misc.health.alternative CitizenJimserac<Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:

[/quote]
Unable to maintain an intellectual defense of his untenable position,
Doctor Schultz has served up "Auntie Stew", the usual insults
sprinkled with words like "liar" etc. etc..

Therefore, no point in attempting to continue the "discussion" with
Schultz.

Those who wish to learn more about the intellectual underpinnings
of his mistaken ideas regarding Homeopathy in particular
and CAM in general is directed to this link, paying particular
attention to the final sentence of the quote from the linked article:

For more information on FUNDAMENTALIST DENIALISM
characteristic of misinformed posters such as Schultz,
see THIS link:
http://www.hpathy.com/papersnew/milogram-homeopathy-fundamentalism.asp

quoted from
"Homepathy and the New Fundamentalism:" by L. Milgrom PhD, F.R.S.C

"Acts of terrorism aside, in a pluralistic society intolerance can
work far more insidiously on an intellectual level, by stifling and
ultimately removing access to alternative forms of knowledge. For
example, the evidence-based discourse that some think has “colonized”
much of contemporary conventional medicine1 could be said to be based
on a “naïve inductivist” scientific paradigm2,3 (i.e., that purely
objective observations can be made that lead to irrefutable facts:
that generalizations can be induced from these facts; and that
scientific laws and theories result from these inductions) that
ideologically excludes alternative therapies (such as homeopathy),
and
their discourses. The discourse of evidence-based medicine (EBM) has
recently been compared to a “fascist” structure for its active
intolerance of pluralism in health care systems.1 As such,
overzealous
interpretation of the principles of EBM could be said to promote an
attitude that demeans and attempts to disempower practitioners and
patients of homeopathy/complementary and alternative medicines
(CAMs),
ultimately seeking to deprive millions of people of these therapeutic
choices because they are considered “unscientific.” The uglier side
of
this attitude is displayed on internet websites virtually on a daily
basis."

Citizen Jimserac


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