Science and Technology news... :: View topic - "Alternative Health" quackery causes brain damage

rpautrey2 · Guest

Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Have you ever heard of NCCAM? They are a government agency, part of
the NIH, which doles out money for studies of alternative treatments,
even those where no patent is applicable.
[/quote]

MP,
On average, how much money do the pharmaceutical
companies spend on each drug put on the market?
$1.2 Billion!

How much is the NCCAM Funding?
FY 1992: $2.0 million!
FY 2008: $121.5 million!

The links are below.

How many indepth studies can NCCAM do?
None!

Paul

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Average Cost to Develop a New Biotechnology Product Is $1.2 Billion
http://csdd.tufts.edu/NewsEvents/NewsArticle.asp?newsid=69

BOSTON – Nov. 9, 2006 – The Tufts Center for the Study of Drug
Development today announced it has developed the first comprehensive
estimate of the average cost of developing a new biotechnology
product, and pegged it at $1.2 billion.

Tufts CSDD said the $1.2 billion estimate reflects the costs of drugs
that fail in testing and the time costs associated with bringing a new
biopharmaceutical to market. Of this amount, capitalized out-of-pocket
preclinical cost totaled $615 million, while similar clinical period
cost totaled $626 million.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NCCAM Funding: Appropriations History
http://nccam.nih.gov/about/appropriations/index.htm

Congress established the Office of Alternative Medicine in 1992 and
the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine in
1999. Funding appropriated for each fiscal year is listed below.
National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine
FY 2008: $121.5 million
FY 2007: $121.6 million
FY 2006: $122.7 million
FY 2005: $123.1 million
FY 2004: $117.7 million
FY 2003: $114.1 million
FY 2002: $104.6 million
FY 2001: $89.2 million
FY 2000: $68.7 million
FY 1999: $50.0 million
Office of Alternative Medicine
FY 1998: $19.5 million
FY 1997: $12.0 million
FY 1996: $7.7 million
FY 1995: $5.4 million
FY 1994: $3.4 million
FY 1993: $2.0 million
FY 1992: $2.0 million

On Nov 22, 10:37 am, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 21, 8:06 pm, rpautrey2 <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote:

marcia <marcia1234...@gmail.com> wrote:
Pssst. Is it because of The Conspiracy?

I never said anything about a conspiracy.
Don>t put words in my mouth.
Vitamin C can>t be patented.
Money for indepth studies!

Have you ever heard of NCCAM? They are a government agency, part of
the NIH, which doles out money for studies of alternative treatments,
even those where no patent is applicable. Why are the VitCers applying
for those buks? Hmmm?

As for the lack of patentability, that has not stopped some of your
heroes from seeking to patent the use of Lupron, which they do not
hold the patent to, in the treatment of Autism. In case you do not
recall, they are the Geiers.[/quote]

t · Guest

Perhaps because Pub Med is written by bought and paid for shills?
"marcia" <marcia12345.c@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:23ca662b-b883-409a-a3d3-af918d67fc78@k8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
[quote]On Nov 21, 5:43 pm, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:
true.blue.bl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:0a41de52-65a6-46c1-921b-a6c1bb685e66@d10g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

Ah, "Vitamin C cures...", eh? And your published data to support this
is....where exactly?

1,200 peer review citations collated by Dr
Levyhttp://whale.to/a/levy4.html

chew on that asshole

Yet not a single one of those articles appears on PubMed. Why is that?[/quote]

t · Guest

Awwww you two are sooooo cute. Ignorant , but cute.
"marcia" <marcia12345.c@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e148b11a-3636-4f0d-96fd-26e42d6e678e@j32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
[quote]On Nov 21, 6:46 pm, MothWrangler <mothwrang...@hotmail.com> wrote:
marcia wrote:
On Nov 21, 5:43 pm, "JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote:

true.blue.bl...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:0a41de52-65a6-46c1-921b-a6c1bb685e66@d10g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

Ah, "Vitamin C cures...", eh? And your published data to support this
is....where exactly?

1,200 peer review citations collated by Dr
Levyhttp://whale.to/a/levy4.html

chew on that asshole

Yet not a single one of those articles appears on PubMed. Why is that?

Well, goodness, Marcia, I guess you haven>t been reading MHA long enough
to know the answer to that.

The articles aren>t published in PubMed because there>s a world-wide
conspiracy involving science-based medicine and pharmaceutical companies
that supresses any information which would attest to the efficacy of
alternative treatments of any kind.

And, yet, despite this vast international conspiracy that keeps all of
this information super-secret, somehow, many of the pro-alt posters on
MHA seem to know a great deal about these proven alternative treatments.

LOL. Is this another post about osmosis?[/quote]

Blinky Bill · Guest

"Mark Probert" <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6a212ae1-7cea-416b-9d60-ebc907591a7e@n10g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
[quote]On Nov 21, 6:55 pm, "Blinky Bill" <nos...@anytime.com> wrote:
"JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:WPWdnZxZZdcepLrUnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@bt.com...

true.blue.bl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0a41de52-65a6-46c1-921b-a6c1bb685e66@d10g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

Ah, "Vitamin C cures...", eh? And your published data to support this
is....where exactly?

1,200 peer review citations collated by Dr Levy
http://whale.to/a/levy4.html

The source you cite doesn>t claim to have 1200 peer reviewed articles
that
support the efficacy of Vitamin C. In fact it disputes the relevance of
the
peer review process. Perhaps you should read it before you cite it.

Hey, Binky, wanna really laugh? John is the autor of the site that he
mis-cited.

On the open end stupid scale, that rates a 150.
[/quote]
Full scale deflection on the loon-o-meter - needle hard up against the
stop-pin.

Jan Drew · Guest

"Mark Probert" <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote:

[quote]On Nov 20, 4:32 pm, rpautrey2 <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Paulie,
Nine times out of ten my responses/posts are
more important and factual so I am resuming
my top-posting. You definitely need to work
on your critical reading skills. I did not already
post this article in this thread. You and numerous
others in this group belong to the 'WackoMedicine Cult'
and probably numerous other cults. You cannot be a
'Mind Control' victim*. Your opinions and knowledge
are actually the opinions and knowledge of the
cults you belong to. Your wacko 'loon babble'
would fit in perfectly if you would post it in your
wacko groups.

Marcia,
Nine times out of ten my responses/posts are
more important and factual so I am resuming
my top-posting. You definitely need to work
on your critical reading skills. I did not already
post this article in this thread. You and numerous
others in this group belong to the 'Allopathy Cult'
and probably numerous other cults. You are a
'Mind Control' victim. Your opinions and knowledge
are actually the opinions and knowledge of the
cults you belong to. Your allopathy 'loon babble'
would fit in perfectly if you would post it in your
cult groups.[/quote]

Richard Schultz · Guest

In misc.health.alternative Mark Probert <mark.probert@gmail.com> wrote:

: As for the lack of patentability, that has not stopped some of your
: heroes from seeking to patent the use of Lupron, which they do not
: hold the patent to, in the treatment of Autism. In case you do not
: recall, they are the Geiers.

I don>t know the details of this particular case, but if you find a
new use for a known pharmaceutical, the new use can be patented (under
certain circumstances).

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."

Jan Drew · Guest

"Jan Drew" wrote:

You keep getting this Deja Vu feeling is not the subject.

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 20, 4:32 pm, rpautrey2 <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Marcia,
Nine times out of ten my responses/posts are
more important and factual so I am resuming
my top-posting. You definitely need to work
on your critical reading skills. I did not already
post this article in this thread. You and numerous
others in this group belong to the 'Allopathy Cult'
and probably numerous other cults. You are a
'Mind Control' victim. Your opinions and knowledge
are actually the opinions and knowledge of the
cults you belong to. Your allopathy 'loon babble'
would fit in perfectly if you would post it in your
cult groups.

Paul

[/quote]
Trust me on this one, I believe there is hope for her.

Citizen Jimserac

Citizen Jimserac · Guest

On Nov 20, 5:39 pm, true.blue.bl...@gmail.com wrote:

[quote]
I first became aware ofHomeopathyjust a few years ago when my wife
brought home some sort of homeopathic "medicine" - I read the prattle
on the bottle and was immediately fascinated that it was even legal
for a pharmacy to sell something which was so obviously a mis-labelled
placebo.
[/quote]
Did you say "obviously a mis-labeled placebo"???

Are you aware that no research exists as to what exactly
a placebo is?

Are you aware that a highly regarded meta analysis of Homeopathy that
appeared in the Lancet in 2005 has been completely refuted in
two recent articles, one of them appearing in the Journal of Clinical
Epidemeology?

Are you aware of numerous research involving double blinded placebo
controlled randomized
tests which, for some conditions, clearly indicate Homeopathy works
and works
well above placebo?

[quote]Then I borrowed a book from the library which earnestly explained all
this 18th-century nonsense about "like cures like" and "proving" and
then all this dilution "until there is less than 1 molecule of active
ingredient"...how could anybody read that particular phrase and not
realise thatHomeopathyis utter nonsense?
[/quote]
Wow! One book, eh? Are you aware of the experiments of M. Ennis
regarding
the stimulation of biological activity (release of histamine by
basophil cells)
by high dilution substances which no longer contain any atoms of the
stimulant?

You>re right about there not being any acceptable theory of how
Homeopathy might
work, but there is NO DOUBT, that it DOES WORK for SOME conditions,
and work well.
That>s not to mention that the research for Homeopathy is but a
FRACTION of what
the big pharma companies have and almost every research report I read
ends with "more research needed".

There are people who were given up for DEAD by standard medicine
that are alive or whose lives were saved by Homeopathy.

It is just that simple and there>s no wiggling out of it, calling it
quackery
or any other bit of innuendo. You can repeat yourself till your blue
in
the face and those people that were saved - nothing is going to change
that.

Now you can ADMIT that there might be some sort of Homeopathic
curative effect
based on unknown causes, decide that there is no effect, or claim that
there is a Homeopathic effect
but it is actually placebo. Either way, there a LOT of dedicated
SCIENTISTS working on it,
they are not quacks and some of them are probably risking their
careers to do it.

Here>s a link just in case you get in the mood to stop your
unmitigated stupidity
of repetition that it>s all nonsense and actually want to learn
something of what it is all about:

It>s from the blog of an MD who became a practicing Homeopathic
physician
and he explains why, what it>s all about. Be sure to read the
comments at the
end from the sceptical math teacher who shuts off his thinking ability
as soon as the no molecules in the remedy fact is reached. Be sure to
read
The Homeopaths response.

http://heroesnotzombies.wordpress.com/2007/09/26/why-homeopathy-and-what-is-it-anyway/

Good luck in you learning.

Citizen Jimserac

D. C. Sessions · Guest

Richard Schultz wrote:

[quote]I don>t know the details of this particular case, but if you find a
new use for a known pharmaceutical, the new use can be patented (under
certain circumstances).
[/quote]
In light of the recent /Bilski/ decision, that>s not at all clear.

--
| The brighter the stupid burns, the more |
| chance that someone will see the light. |
+- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> -+

Mark Probert · Guest

On Nov 22, 7:21 pm, "Blinky Bill" <nos...@anytime.com> wrote:
[quote]"Mark Probert" <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:6a212ae1-7cea-416b-9d60-ebc907591a7e@n10g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

On Nov 21, 6:55 pm, "Blinky Bill" <nos...@anytime.com> wrote:
"JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:WPWdnZxZZdcepLrUnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@bt.com...

true.blue.bl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0a41de52-65a6-46c1-921b-a6c1bb685e66@d10g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

Ah, "Vitamin C cures...", eh? And your published data to support this
is....where exactly?

1,200 peer review citations collated by Dr Levy
http://whale.to/a/levy4.html

The source you cite doesn>t claim to have 1200 peer reviewed articles
that
support the efficacy of Vitamin C. In fact it disputes the relevance of
the
peer review process. Perhaps you should read it before you cite it.
Hey, Binky, wanna really laugh? John is the autor of the site that he
mis-cited.
On the open end stupid scale, that rates a 150.

Full scale deflection on the loon-o-meter - needle hard up against the
stop-pin.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
Whale.to is the internet>s largest suppository of mis-information

rpautrey2 · Guest

Casey Anthony,

Wrong!

You are the internet>s largest suppository of disinformation!

Paul

On Nov 24, 5:19 am, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 22, 7:21 pm, "Blinky Bill" <nos...@anytime.com> wrote:

"Mark Probert" <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:6a212ae1-7cea-416b-9d60-ebc907591a7e@n10g2000yqm.googlegroups.com....

On Nov 21, 6:55 pm, "Blinky Bill" <nos...@anytime.com> wrote:
"JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:WPWdnZxZZdcepLrUnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@bt.com...

true.blue.bl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0a41de52-65a6-46c1-921b-a6c1bb685e66@d10g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

Ah, "Vitamin C cures...", eh? And your published data to support this
is....where exactly?

1,200 peer review citations collated by Dr Levy
http://whale.to/a/levy4.html

The source you cite doesn>t claim to have 1200 peer reviewed articles
that
support the efficacy of Vitamin C. In fact it disputes the relevance of
the
peer review process. Perhaps you should read it before you cite it.
Hey, Binky, wanna really laugh? John is the autor of the site that he
mis-cited.
On the open end stupid scale, that rates a 150.

Full scale deflection on the loon-o-meter - needle hard up against the
stop-pin.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Whale.to is the internet>s largest suppository of mis-information- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -[/quote]

Mark Probert · Guest

On Nov 29, 1:06 am, rpautrey2 <rpautr...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Casey Anthony,

Wrong!

You are the internet>s largest suppository of disinformation!
[/quote]
You cannot even be original. How sad for you.

[quote]
Paul

On Nov 24, 5:19 am, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Nov 22, 7:21 pm, "Blinky Bill" <nos...@anytime.com> wrote:

"Mark Probert" <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:6a212ae1-7cea-416b-9d60-ebc907591a7e@n10g2000yqm.googlegroups.com....

On Nov 21, 6:55 pm, "Blinky Bill" <nos...@anytime.com> wrote:
"JOHN" <j...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:WPWdnZxZZdcepLrUnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@bt.com...

true.blue.bl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0a41de52-65a6-46c1-921b-a6c1bb685e66@d10g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

Ah, "Vitamin C cures...", eh? And your published data to support this
is....where exactly?

1,200 peer review citations collated by Dr Levy
http://whale.to/a/levy4.html

The source you cite doesn>t claim to have 1200 peer reviewed articles
that
support the efficacy of Vitamin C. In fact it disputes the relevance of
the
peer review process. Perhaps you should read it before you cite it..
Hey, Binky, wanna really laugh? John is the autor of the site that he
mis-cited.
On the open end stupid scale, that rates a 150.

Full scale deflection on the loon-o-meter - needle hard up against the
stop-pin.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Whale.to is the internet>s largest suppository of mis-information- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -[/quote]

Guest

Citizen Jimserac wrote:

[quote]On Nov 20, 5:39ï¿½pm, true.blue.bl...@gmail.com wrote:

I first became aware ofHomeopathyjust a few years ago when my wife
brought home some sort of homeopathic "medicine" - I read the prattle
on the bottle and was immediately fascinated that it was even legal
for a pharmacy to sell something which was so obviously a mis-labelled
placebo.

Did you say "obviously a mis-labeled placebo"???

Are you aware that no research exists as to what exactly
a placebo is?
[/quote]
Is that a trick question? Any primary schoolchild can tell you what a
placebo is.

[quote]Are you aware that a highly regarded meta analysis of Homeopathy that
appeared in the Lancet in 2005 has been completely refuted in
two recent articles, one of them appearing in the Journal of Clinical
Epidemeology?
[/quote]
References, please? "Something I just pulled out of my arse, 2008"
doesn>t count.

[quote]Are you aware of numerous research involving double blinded placebo
controlled randomized
tests which, for some conditions, clearly indicate Homeopathy works
and works
well above placebo?
[/quote]
No, I>m not, and nor is any peer-reviewed publication aware of any
such thing, which is clearly a deluded fantasy.

[quote]Are you aware of the experiments of M. Ennis
regarding
the stimulation of biological activity (release of histamine by
basophil cells)
by high dilution substances which no longer contain any atoms of the
stimulant?
[/quote]
Utter gibberish. 19th Century quackery.

[quote]You>re right about there not being any acceptable theory of how
Homeopathy might
work,
[/quote]
That>s a nice admission - you cannot give us any rational explanation
for Homeopathy. We are all agreed then.

[quote]but there is NO DOUBT, that it DOES WORK for SOME conditions,
and work well.
[/quote]
SO get in your lab and prove it.

Nobody else has managed to prove it yet, for reasons that are obvious
to anybody who understands even basic chemistry.

Guest

t wrote:

[quote]henry, you really should check your assumptions before posting. You are
wrong.
[/quote]
I see you can>t offer any facts in support of Homeopathy.

[quote]henry.peregrine.lawson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:90b305a9-e77e-4685-9654-0046267742e9@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

Citizen Jimserac wrote:

Are you aware that no research exists as to what exactly
a placebo is?

Is that a trick question? Any primary schoolchild can tell you what a
placebo is.

Are you aware that a highly regarded meta analysis of Homeopathy that
appeared in the Lancet in 2005 has been completely refuted in
two recent articles, one of them appearing in the Journal of Clinical
Epidemeology?

References, please? "Something I just pulled out of my arse, 2008"
doesn>t count.

Are you aware of numerous research involving double blinded placebo
controlled randomized
tests which, for some conditions, clearly indicate Homeopathy works
and works
well above placebo?

No, I>m not, and nor is any peer-reviewed publication aware of any
such thing, which is clearly a deluded fantasy.

Are you aware of the experiments of M. Ennis
regarding
the stimulation of biological activity (release of histamine by
basophil cells)
by high dilution substances which no longer contain any atoms of the
stimulant?

Utter gibberish. 19th Century quackery.

You>re right about there not being any acceptable theory of how
Homeopathy might
work,

That>s a nice admission - you cannot give us any rational explanation
for Homeopathy. We are all agreed then.

but there is NO DOUBT, that it DOES WORK for SOME conditions,
and work well.

SO get in your lab and prove it.

Nobody else has managed to prove it yet, for reasons that are obvious
to anybody who understands even basic chemistry.[/quote]


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