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Taka · Guest

There may be some truth to what Tom says about the n-3/n-6
precursors. Let the body decide and manufacture the LC-PUFAs as it
needs. But too much of the precursors may cause problems as well as
can be seen in the previous posts associating ALA with prostate
cancer, premature births and cataracts. The human "beast" can utilize
the plant 18 carbon precursors linoleic (LA) and alpha-linolenic (ALA)
acids which should be supplied in balance and not in excess. This is
close to what the "big professor" says:

http://www.brianpeskin.com/

On the other hand trying to outsmart the nature by supplying the LC-
PUFAs as Matti suggests may be dangerous particularly in the case of
Omega-3s (EPA, DHA) which are not only immunosuppressive (NK
inhibition) and cause allergies (Th1/Th2 balance disturbed) but most
importantly will oxidize and damage tissues. They are only helpful in
killing cancers or sedate overactive people all caused by excessive AA
signaling. There are much safer ways to accomplish that such as
removing excessive AA from the body.

We will be soon hearing about chronic/modern diseases caused by
overactive delta-5 desaturase or underactive delta-6 (causing lower
relative GLA levels). These genetic polymorphisms seem to be present
e.g. in atopy and some Japanese.

Then there is the cat which seems to require the "plant" LA for skin
health ...

The farmed fish is fed grains and thus gets more AA than EPA/DHA these
days as in the salmon case.

Excessive AA can be "safely" reduced in young and healthy people by
strenuous exercise since it is burned in muscle to form prostaglandins
which in turn stimulate muscle growth. On the other hand sugar will
"discharge" it in a dangerous way. Matti>s claim that EPA/DHA
stimulate brain development in babies is a double-edged sword since it
will also speed up the aging program. Girls starting to menstruate at
the age of 10 these days while it was at the age of 20 over a century
ago. Then they get breast cancers and diabetes at the age of 40 and
pay the drug industry till the end of their lives ...

Taka

Matti Narkia · Guest

Taka wrote:

[quote]There may be some truth to what Tom says about the n-3/n-6
precursors. Let the body decide and manufacture the LC-PUFAs as it
needs.
[/quote]
Actually, during two millions years of evolution before the invention
of agriculture 10000 - 15000 years ago our bodies have adapted to
getting the long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA, which have been
readily available in the meat of wild animals in addition to seafood,
directly from food. Perhaps for that reason the conversion of ALA to
long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA has remained so ineffiecient
and unreliable: it has not been important. So our bodies don>t cope
very well with the situation, whera ALA is the only source of omega-3s.

At one point of evolution there was also an vegetarian branch
in our "family tree", but it became extinct. Only the omnivorous
branch survived.

For optimal health we need to get some EPA and DHA directly from
food (or supplements).

[quote]But too much of the precursors may cause problems as well as
can be seen in the previous posts associating ALA with prostate
cancer, premature births and cataracts. The human "beast" can utilize
the plant 18 carbon precursors linoleic (LA) and alpha-linolenic (ALA)
acids which should be supplied in balance and not in excess. This is
close to what the "big professor" says:

http://www.brianpeskin.com/

As I told you last summer, this source is crap. Please reread my post[/quote]

Brian Peskin
<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/msg/1c49aac093af50c4>

See also the quackwatch articles mentioned in the end of this post:

Brian S. Peskin Charged with Deception
<http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/Peskin/peskin.html>

Temporary Injunction against Brian Peskin
<http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/tmp.html>

[quote]On the other hand trying to outsmart the nature by supplying the LC-
PUFAs as Matti suggests may be dangerous particularly in the case of
Omega-3s (EPA, DHA) which are not only immunosuppressive (NK
inhibition) and cause allergies (Th1/Th2 balance disturbed) but most
importantly will oxidize and damage tissues.
[/quote]
Getting the long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA directly from food is
what we have been adapted to in evolution. In other words it is the
the way "nature intended" us to get most of our EPA and DHA. If it
were a dangerously immunosuppressive way to get our EPA and DHA,
the omnnivorous branch of human "family tree" would probably
have become extinct instead of the vegetarian branch. That did
not happen. The review article

Differential immunomodulation with long-chain n-3 PUFA in health and
chronic disease.
Sijben JW, Calder PC.
Proc Nutr Soc. 2007 May;66(2):237-59. Review.
PMID: 17466105
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17466105> (abstract)
<http://tinyurl.com/6lxcck> (full text)

seems to confirm that long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA are not
harmful for immune function, but may even improve it in some
conditions. An excerpt:

"... The reviewed studies provide no indications that the
immunomodulatory effects of long-chain n-3 PUFA impair immune
function or infectious disease resistance. In contrast, in some
conditions the immunomodulatory effects of EPA+DHA might improve
immune function."

As for allergies, they are characterized by a shift towards Th2
domination in Th1/Th2 balance. EPA and DHA do not cause such a shift.
EPA is neutral in relation to Th1/Th2 balance, and DHA may cause a
slight shift toward Th1 domination, i.e. a shift _preventing_
allergies and other atopic diseases. In fact there is evidence
that fish oil is beneficial in asthma and atopy, see for example
the review article

Th1/Th2 balance: the hypothesis, its limitations, and implications for
health and disease.
Kidd P.
Altern Med Rev. 2003 Aug;8(3):223-46. Review.
PMID: 12946237
<http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/8/3/223.pdf>

"... Th1 Cells Boost Antiviral and Antibacterial Resistance

One aspect of the Th1/Th2 hypothesis is that the Th1 pathway
primarily acts against intracellular pathogens, particularly
viruses and bacteria. Findings regarding tuberculosis infection
are consistent with this claim.

[...]

A Few Disorders Feature Th2 Overactivation

Allergen-reactive Th2 cells are thought to be primarily involved
in the triggering of type 1 hypersensitivity disorders, including
allergy, asthma, eczema, hay fever, and urticaria."

[...]

Meanwhile, the long-chain omega-3 fatty acid preparations (LCw3),
especially eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic
acid (DHA) have proven anti-inflammatory effects. They have proven
benefit against circulatory inflammatory states (heart attack,
coronary artery disease, restenosis, hypertension); kidney
nephropathy and transplant; inflammatory bowel diseases; and cancer
cachexia (pancreas).85 Repeatedly, studies have failed to
demonstrate either pro-Th1 or pro-Th2 mechanisms. Yet, a
substantial body of work indicates they substantially improve
quality of life in diseases currently considered to be Th1 or Th2
oriented.

[...]

Calder and colleagues assessed 13 controlled studies with fish oils
for RA, completed through year 2001.86 All of these reported
clinical improvement including reduced morning stiffness, reduced
joint tenderness, reduced time to fatigue, and increased grip
strength. Fish oil preparations benefit asthma and atopy,87,88 and
there is preliminary evidence the LCw3 also benefit SLE.89 In
immunoglobulin A (IgA) nephropathy, the most common glomerular
disease worldwide, initial trials with LCw3 have been sufficiently
promising that further trials are underway comparing fish oil to
prednisone, the only other encouraging treatment for the disease.90

These striking findings with LCw3 suggest it is not essential to
intervene specifically at the T-helper cell level in order to
benefit the patient. Beyond their proven nutritional support for
anti-inflammatory eicosanoid balance, EPA and DHA also operate
through non-eicosanoid mechanisms that include down-regulation of
pro-inflammatory cytokines.85 Their proven benefits for subjects
with inflammatory and autoimmune pathology argue against any
central role for Th1/Th2 balance in ameliorating disease states."

[quote]They are only helpful in
killing cancers or sedate overactive people all caused by excessive AA
signaling.
[/quote]
As seen even in many studies posted here, the available evidence
disagrees with you.

[quote]There are much safer ways to accomplish that such as
removing excessive AA from the body.

By definition an excessive amount of anything should be avoided.[/quote]
But reducing AA is not enough, for optimal health you also need
to get a sufficient amount of EPA and DHA from the food or supplements.

[quote]We will be soon hearing about chronic/modern diseases caused by
overactive delta-5 desaturase or underactive delta-6 (causing lower
relative GLA levels). These genetic polymorphisms seem to be present
e.g. in atopy and some Japanese.

That>s your speculation, but even if so happens, what>s your point?[/quote]
EPA _reduces_ delta-5 desaturase activity!
[quote]
The farmed fish is fed grains and thus gets more AA than EPA/DHA these
days as in the salmon case.

It gets LA and not AA from grains, which leads to higher production[/quote]
of AA than in wild fish. Accrding to my information farmed salmon
does not have more AA that EPA+DHA. However, it does have about four
times more AA than wild salmon. EPA+DHA content of farmed salmon
is actually higher that in wild salmon. It>s relatively high AA
content however makes it inferior source of fatty acids when compared
with wild salmon. Therefore I always recommend the use of wild fish
or/and fish oil supplements.

[quote]Matti>s claim that EPA/DHA
stimulate brain development in babies is a double-edged sword since it
will also speed up the aging program.
[/quote]
There is no evidence of that. EPA and DHA are anti-inflammatory and
therefore help to reduce the harms of chronic low-grade inflammation,
which increase when we age. Also, as mentioned many times, Japanese
and Icelandic, who get more EPA and DHA than others, also live
longer than others.

[quote]Girls starting to menstruate at
the age of 10 these days while it was at the age of 20 over a century
ago. Then they get breast cancers and diabetes at the age of 40 and
pay the drug industry till the end of their lives ...

What>s you point? Surely that has nothing to do with long-chain[/quote]
omega-3 PUFAs.

You start sounding like a very bad politician trying to advance his
questionable cause by bringing up all kind of unrelated and irrelevant
arguments and topics.

--
Matti Narkia

http://ma.gnolia.com/groups/Nutrition

Guest

Genius intellect is not required here, Taka. Just make modifications
in your diet, and you can see for yourself (as I have) that dietary
PUFAs and not required and can only cause harm. Then, after you have
done harm, the omega 3s might mitigate the damage omega 6s do to some
degree, but that is clearly an illogical way to live your life.

Matti Narkia · Guest

Matti Narkia wrote:

[quote]Taka wrote:

There may be some truth to what Tom says about the n-3/n-6
precursors. Let the body decide and manufacture the LC-PUFAs as it
needs.

Actually, during two millions years of evolution before the invention
of agriculture 10000 - 15000 years ago our bodies have adapted to
getting the long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA, which have been
readily available in the meat of wild animals in addition to seafood,
directly from food. Perhaps for that reason the conversion of ALA to
long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA has remained so ineffiecient
and unreliable: it has not been important. So our bodies don>t cope
very well with the situation, whera ALA is the only source of omega-3s.

At one point of evolution there was also an vegetarian branch
in our "family tree", but it became extinct. Only the omnivorous
branch survived.

For optimal health we need to get some EPA and DHA directly from
food (or supplements).

These messages from last August provide some information about[/quote]
preagricultural diet, especially about their long-chain omega-3 PUFA
content:

<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/msg/4c8fceb4f8426774>
<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/msg/9f9fbf00bf7d7f21>
<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/msg/bf537d309a680dd8>
<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/msg/eb8e9b51a94d26f4>

--
Matti Narkia

http://ma.gnolia.com/groups/Nutrition

MikeV · Guest

"Matti Narkia" <mna@mbnet.fi> wrote in message
news:5kRXk.97963$_03.2279@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
[quote]Taka wrote:

There may be some truth to what Tom says about the n-3/n-6
precursors. Let the body decide and manufacture the LC-PUFAs as it
needs.

Actually, during two millions years of evolution before the invention
of agriculture 10000 - 15000 years ago our bodies have adapted to
getting the long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA, which have been
readily available in the meat of wild animals in addition to seafood,
directly from food. Perhaps for that reason the conversion of ALA to
long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA has remained so ineffiecient
and unreliable: it has not been important. So our bodies don>t cope
very well with the situation, whera ALA is the only source of omega-3s.

At one point of evolution there was also an vegetarian branch
in our "family tree", but it became extinct. Only the omnivorous
branch survived.

For optimal health we need to get some EPA and DHA directly from
food (or supplements).

But too much of the precursors may cause problems as well as
can be seen in the previous posts associating ALA with prostate
cancer, premature births and cataracts. The human "beast" can utilize
the plant 18 carbon precursors linoleic (LA) and alpha-linolenic (ALA)
acids which should be supplied in balance and not in excess. This is
close to what the "big professor" says:

http://www.brianpeskin.com/

As I told you last summer, this source is crap. Please reread my post

Brian Peskin
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/msg/1c49aac093af50c4

See also the quackwatch articles mentioned in the end of this post:

Brian S. Peskin Charged with Deception
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/Peskin/peskin.html

Temporary Injunction against Brian Peskin
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/tmp.html

On the other hand trying to outsmart the nature by supplying the LC-
PUFAs as Matti suggests may be dangerous particularly in the case of
Omega-3s (EPA, DHA) which are not only immunosuppressive (NK
inhibition) and cause allergies (Th1/Th2 balance disturbed) but most
importantly will oxidize and damage tissues.

Getting the long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA directly from food is
what we have been adapted to in evolution. In other words it is the
the way "nature intended" us to get most of our EPA and DHA. If it
were a dangerously immunosuppressive way to get our EPA and DHA,
the omnnivorous branch of human "family tree" would probably
have become extinct instead of the vegetarian branch. That did
not happen. The review article

Differential immunomodulation with long-chain n-3 PUFA in health and
chronic disease.
Sijben JW, Calder PC.
Proc Nutr Soc. 2007 May;66(2):237-59. Review.
PMID: 17466105
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17466105> (abstract)
http://tinyurl.com/6lxcck> (full text)

seems to confirm that long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA are not
harmful for immune function, but may even improve it in some
conditions. An excerpt:

"... The reviewed studies provide no indications that the
immunomodulatory effects of long-chain n-3 PUFA impair immune
function or infectious disease resistance. In contrast, in some
conditions the immunomodulatory effects of EPA+DHA might improve
immune function."

As for allergies, they are characterized by a shift towards Th2
domination in Th1/Th2 balance. EPA and DHA do not cause such a shift.
EPA is neutral in relation to Th1/Th2 balance, and DHA may cause a
slight shift toward Th1 domination, i.e. a shift _preventing_
allergies and other atopic diseases. In fact there is evidence
that fish oil is beneficial in asthma and atopy, see for example
the review article

Th1/Th2 balance: the hypothesis, its limitations, and implications for
health and disease.
Kidd P.
Altern Med Rev. 2003 Aug;8(3):223-46. Review.
PMID: 12946237
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/8/3/223.pdf

"... Th1 Cells Boost Antiviral and Antibacterial Resistance

One aspect of the Th1/Th2 hypothesis is that the Th1 pathway
primarily acts against intracellular pathogens, particularly
viruses and bacteria. Findings regarding tuberculosis infection
are consistent with this claim.

[...]

A Few Disorders Feature Th2 Overactivation

Allergen-reactive Th2 cells are thought to be primarily involved
in the triggering of type 1 hypersensitivity disorders, including
allergy, asthma, eczema, hay fever, and urticaria."

[...]

Meanwhile, the long-chain omega-3 fatty acid preparations (LCw3),
especially eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic
acid (DHA) have proven anti-inflammatory effects. They have proven
benefit against circulatory inflammatory states (heart attack,
coronary artery disease, restenosis, hypertension); kidney
nephropathy and transplant; inflammatory bowel diseases; and cancer
cachexia (pancreas).85 Repeatedly, studies have failed to
demonstrate either pro-Th1 or pro-Th2 mechanisms. Yet, a
substantial body of work indicates they substantially improve
quality of life in diseases currently considered to be Th1 or Th2
oriented.

[...]

Calder and colleagues assessed 13 controlled studies with fish oils
for RA, completed through year 2001.86 All of these reported
clinical improvement including reduced morning stiffness, reduced
joint tenderness, reduced time to fatigue, and increased grip
strength. Fish oil preparations benefit asthma and atopy,87,88 and
there is preliminary evidence the LCw3 also benefit SLE.89 In
immunoglobulin A (IgA) nephropathy, the most common glomerular
disease worldwide, initial trials with LCw3 have been sufficiently
promising that further trials are underway comparing fish oil to
prednisone, the only other encouraging treatment for the disease.90

These striking findings with LCw3 suggest it is not essential to
intervene specifically at the T-helper cell level in order to
benefit the patient. Beyond their proven nutritional support for
anti-inflammatory eicosanoid balance, EPA and DHA also operate
through non-eicosanoid mechanisms that include down-regulation of
pro-inflammatory cytokines.85 Their proven benefits for subjects
with inflammatory and autoimmune pathology argue against any
central role for Th1/Th2 balance in ameliorating disease states."

They are only helpful in
killing cancers or sedate overactive people all caused by excessive AA
signaling.

As seen even in many studies posted here, the available evidence
disagrees with you.

There are much safer ways to accomplish that such as
removing excessive AA from the body.

By definition an excessive amount of anything should be avoided.
But reducing AA is not enough, for optimal health you also need
to get a sufficient amount of EPA and DHA from the food or supplements.

We will be soon hearing about chronic/modern diseases caused by
overactive delta-5 desaturase or underactive delta-6 (causing lower
relative GLA levels). These genetic polymorphisms seem to be present
e.g. in atopy and some Japanese.

That>s your speculation, but even if so happens, what>s your point?
EPA _reduces_ delta-5 desaturase activity!

The farmed fish is fed grains and thus gets more AA than EPA/DHA these
days as in the salmon case.

It gets LA and not AA from grains, which leads to higher production
of AA than in wild fish. Accrding to my information farmed salmon
does not have more AA that EPA+DHA. However, it does have about four
times more AA than wild salmon. EPA+DHA content of farmed salmon
is actually higher that in wild salmon. It>s relatively high AA
content however makes it inferior source of fatty acids when compared
with wild salmon. Therefore I always recommend the use of wild fish
or/and fish oil supplements.

Matti>s claim that EPA/DHA
stimulate brain development in babies is a double-edged sword since it
will also speed up the aging program.

There is no evidence of that. EPA and DHA are anti-inflammatory and
therefore help to reduce the harms of chronic low-grade inflammation,
which increase when we age. Also, as mentioned many times, Japanese
and Icelandic, who get more EPA and DHA than others, also live
longer than others.

Girls starting to menstruate at
the age of 10 these days while it was at the age of 20 over a century
ago. Then they get breast cancers and diabetes at the age of 40 and
pay the drug industry till the end of their lives ...

What>s you point? Surely that has nothing to do with long-chain
omega-3 PUFAs.

You start sounding like a very bad politician trying to advance his
questionable cause by bringing up all kind of unrelated and irrelevant
arguments and topics.

--
Matti Narkia

http://ma.gnolia.com/groups/Nutrition
[/quote]
Matti:
Eloquently, precisely, (and dare I say, irrefutably) argued.
(historical reasons for a position being completely ignored by the siamese
twins!)
This one is for my files.

mikeV

Matti Narkia · Guest

Matti Narkia wrote:

[quote]Matti Narkia wrote:

Taka wrote:

There may be some truth to what Tom says about the n-3/n-6
precursors. Let the body decide and manufacture the LC-PUFAs as it
needs.

Actually, during two millions years of evolution before the invention
of agriculture 10000 - 15000 years ago our bodies have adapted to
getting the long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA, which have been
readily available in the meat of wild animals in addition to seafood,
directly from food. Perhaps for that reason the conversion of ALA to
long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA has remained so ineffiecient
and unreliable: it has not been important. So our bodies don>t cope
very well with the situation, whera ALA is the only source of omega-3s.

At one point of evolution there was also an vegetarian branch
in our "family tree", but it became extinct. Only the omnivorous
branch survived.

For optimal health we need to get some EPA and DHA directly from
food (or supplements).

These messages from last August provide some information about
preagricultural diet, especially about their long-chain omega-3 PUFA
content:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/msg/4c8fceb4f8426774
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/msg/9f9fbf00bf7d7f21
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/msg/bf537d309a680dd8
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/msg/eb8e9b51a94d26f4
'
The extinct vegetarian branch in human evolution was Australopithecus[/quote]
(or Australopithicus) robustus a.k.a. Paranthropus robustus, who lived
at the same time as our direct ancestor Homo habilis. See

Nutrition
by Ron Kennedy, M.D., Santa Rosa, California
<http://www.nzlf.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=42>

"Fifteen million years ago, Africa was a land of dense jungle,
beginning to give way to open plains and broken forests known
as "savannas." In the forest was a species of ape which had
developed the ability to walk on two, as well as four limbs.
Around six to seven million years ago, one venturesome band of
these apes came out of the forest to live part of the time on
the savanna. The savanna was populated with large carnivores.
Those ape-men/women who dared to walk more frequently on two
legs were able to better see approaching danger by looking over
the vegetation. They survived to reproduce, and thus did this
band of ape-men/women become able, through natural selection,
to walk exclusively upright. With their upper limbs freed, they
found many interesting and useful things to do with them.
They became handy with sticks and stones, and because they
stuck and stoned together, they survived without a lot of
change in their anatomy. This all happened about five million
years ago. This prehuman creature developed into several
different varieties of human-like creatures: Australopithicus
robustus (a giant who remained a vegetarian), Australopithicus
africanus (a smallish creature) and Homo habilis, your direct
ancestor. (This is the short course in paleoanthropology and
human evolution.)

As his name implies, Homo habilis was very good with his hands.
Handyman was so skilled with his hands that he eventually
killed off the other two species of proto-humans. Handyman
perfected his upright posture (paying a certain price in the
form of lower back pain) and doubled the size of his brain; and
by 1.5 million years ago became Homo erectus: the first fully
upright man.

During all this time, "socialization" was proceeding — which
means that man and woman were coming to depend on each other
for survival. Man, always looking for a shortcut, took to
killing other animals for food, while woman stayed closer to
home and continued to gather plants. Homo erectus, as part of
his newly developed hunting habit, completed the extermination
of Australopithicus africanus and probably also the giant
vegetarian Australopithicus robustus — unless a few of the
later survived to become Sasquatch (this remains to be proven).
Around 200,000 years ago, Handyman>s brain case again expanded,
and this led to the development of Homo sapiens or "thinking
man." Fifty thousand years ago there appeared a new variety of
Thinking Man, Homo sapien sapien, "wise thinking man," with a
high forehead and a new kind of vocal apparatus, allowing the
sophisticated kind of speech to which we are accustomed, an
audible representation of the hand sign language which it.
´ This new kind of man then managed to kill off, or breed and
blend with, another strain of wise thinking man, who we now
call Neanderthal after the valley in Germany where their
remains were first discovered. There evolution stood until the
about four thousand years ago. The next step in evolution did
not occur with an anatomical change, but probably with a neuro-
chemical change. Humans began to appear on the earth, aware of
themselves as more than animals, but also possessed of a soul.
This evolution was a transformation, and we are still in the
midst of it right now. I interpret your participation with this
web site network to represent your stand for forwarding this
stage of evolution. Part of the transformative process is a
heightened awareness of the importance of our physical nature
and the value of attending diligently to the well-being of our
bodies."

The page

The Evolution of Man
<http://www.dribbleglass.com/subpages/evolution.htm>

provides timeline for human evolution:

Australopithecus afarensis: 4 to 2.7 million years ago
Australopithecus africanus: 3 to 2 million years ago
Australopithecus robustus: 2.2 to 1.6 million years ago
Homo habilis: 2.2 to 1.6 million years ago
Homo erectus: 2.0 to 0.4 million years ago
Neanderthal: 200 to 35 thousand years ago
Cro-magnon: 35 thousand years ago
Homo sapien: 200 thousand years ago to present

See also

Ancient History/Human Evolution/Paleolithic Age
<http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ancient_History/Human_Evolution/Paleolithic_Age>

"Our ancestors also developed a taste for a broad variety of foods.
Early hominins, like Australopithicus robustus, were clearly '
vegetarian plant-eaters, based on their teeth and jaw structure.
But later hominins, including Australopithicus afarensis and Homo
erectus, clearly used their incisors to tear meat and their molars
to chew it."

Australopithicus robustus: A contemporary of early human species
<http://www.wsu.edu:8001/vwsu/gened/learn-modules/top_longfor/timeline/robustus/robustus-a.html>
<http://tinyurl.com/6ba98r>

"These australopithicines (ape species) are small brained (about 400
cc) compared to human species contemporaneous with them, and they
are not regarded as ancestral to human beings,. Their huge teeth
and skulls, often with prominent dorsal crests to which large jaw
muscles attached, show that they specialized in eating tough plant
material. They were apparently vegetarians, while our ancestors
evolved as omnivores with a taste for meat."

Australopithecus robustus
<http://everything2.com/e2node/Australopithecus%2520robustus>

"The generally held opinion is that Robustus was a vegetarian and
its large jaw muscles and molars were adapted to a diet of coarse,
tough plants processed by laborious chewing."

Human Origin
<http://www.stanford.edu/~harryg/protected/evolve5.htm>

--
Matti Narkia

http://ma.gnolia.com/groups/Nutrition

ironjustice · Guest

On Nov 27, 6:32 pm, Taka <taka0...@gmail.com> wrote: The human
"beast" can utilize the plant 18 carbon precursors linoleic (LA) and
alpha-linolenic (ALA)
acids which should be supplied in balance and not in excess. This is
close to what the "big professor" says: <<

One might want to start there and work backward ..

According to .. serendipity .. the balance to treat aids is .. 7 parts
"neutral lipids" (ordinary fats like butter) , 2 parts
phosphatidylcholine , part phosphatidylethanolamine.

Those neutral lipids is what all this Mead acid sht is about ..

"AL 721 is an experimental AIDS treatment derived from egg yolks. It
is known to be safe and without serious side effects.
All available information from laboratory studies, clinical
trials, and anecdotal reports suggests that although
it is not a cure, it appears to be helpful even at severe stages of
HIV infection."

http://www.aids.org/atn/a-030-01.html

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

[quote]
http://www.brianpeskin.com/

On the other hand trying to outsmart the nature by supplying the LC-
PUFAs as Matti suggests may be dangerous particularly in the case of
Omega-3s (EPA, DHA) which are not only immunosuppressive (NK
inhibition) and cause allergies (Th1/Th2 balance disturbed) but most
importantly will oxidize and damage tissues. They are only helpful in
killing cancers or sedate overactive people all caused by excessive AA
signaling. There are much safer ways to accomplish that such as
removing excessive AA from the body.

We will be soon hearing about chronic/modern diseases caused by
overactive delta-5 desaturase or underactive delta-6 (causing lower
relative GLA levels). These genetic polymorphisms seem to be present
e.g. in atopy and some Japanese.

Then there is the cat which seems to require the "plant" LA for skin
health ...

The farmed fish is fed grains and thus gets more AA than EPA/DHA these
days as in the salmon case.

Excessive AA can be "safely" reduced in young and healthy people by
strenuous exercise since it is burned in muscle to form prostaglandins
which in turn stimulate muscle growth. On the other hand sugar will
"discharge" it in a dangerous way. Matti>s claim that EPA/DHA
stimulate brain development in babies is a double-edged sword since it
will also speed up the aging program. Girls starting to menstruate at
the age of 10 these days while it was at the age of 20 over a century
ago. Then they get breast cancers and diabetes at the age of 40 and
pay the drug industry till the end of their lives ...

Taka[/quote]

ironjustice · Guest

On Nov 28, 7:33 pm, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
acids which should be supplied in balance and not in excess. This
is
close to what the "big professor" says: <<

Getting regeneration in neurons with the proper balance it seems and
this phosphatidylcholine is important.

Relationships Between Phosphatidylcholine, Phosphatidylethanolamine,
and Sphingomyelin Metabolism in Cultured Oligodendrocytes
Jan P. Vos, Catharina G. M. de Haas, Lambert M. G. van Golde, and
Matthijs Lopes-Cardozo
Laboratory of Veterinary Biochemistry, Utrecht University, Utrecht,
The Netherlands
Address correspondence and reprint requests to Dr. M. Lopes-Cardozo at
Laboratory of Veterinary Biochemistry, Utrecht University, P.O. Box
80.176, 3508 TD Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Copyright Blackwell Science Inc
KEYWORDS
Spingomyelin synthesis • Ceramide phosphoethanolamine • Rat
oligodendrocyte • Phosphatidylethanolamine methylation
ABSTRACT
Abstract: In most cell types the major pathway of sphingomyelin
synthesis is the direct transfer of the phosphocholine head group from
phosphatidylcholine to ceramide catalyzed by the enzyme l-
acylsphingosine:phosphatidylcholine phosphocholinetransferase (SM
synthase; EC 2.7.8.-). Although this pathway has been demonstrated in
brain tissue, its quantitative importance has been questioned.
An alternative biosynthetic pathway for sphingomyelin synthesis in
brain tissue has been proposed, viz., the direct transfer of
phosphoethanolamine from phosphatidylethanolamine to ceramide,
followed by methylation of the ethanolamine moiety to a choline
group.
We have evaluated various possible biosynthetic pathways of
sphingomyelin synthesis in rat spinal cord oligodendrocytes, the
myelin-forming cells of the CNS, by labeling cells in culture with
radiolabeled choline, ethanolamine, or serine.
Our results indicate that, in oligodendrocytes, most of the
phosphocholine for the biosynthesis of sphingomyelin is provided by
phosphatidylcholine, which is predominantly derived from de novo
synthesis.
No evidence was found for the operation of the alternative pathway via
ceramide-phosphoethanolamine.
Furthermore, our results indicate that a small pool of
phosphatidylcholine is provided by methylation of
phosphatidylethanolamine, which in turn is formed preferentially by
decarboxylation of phosphatidylserine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Resubmitted manuscript September 23, 1996; accepted October 18, 1996.

DIGITAL OBJECT IDENTIFIER (DOI)
10.1046/j.1471-4159.1997.68031252.x About DOI
Journal of Neurochemistry
Volume 68 Issue 3, Pages 1252 - 1260
Published Online: 18 Nov 2002

Journal compilation © 2008 International Society for Neurochemistry

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

ironjustice · Guest

On Nov 28, 7:33 pm, ironjustice <teamtan...@hotmail.com> wrote: "AL
721 is an experimental AIDS treatment derived from egg yolks." 7
parts
"neutral lipids" (ordinary fats like butter) , 2 parts
phosphatidylcholine ,
part phosphatidylethanolamine http://www.aids.org/atn/a-030-01.html <<

Anybody want to do a study in their heads .. ?

They have shown breast cancer spread goes down by 500% if you have a
higher alpha-linolenic acid content in your tissue ..

What WOULD be the result of this trial with AL 721 in HIV lymph node
swelling ..

1 Completed A Study of AL721 in HIV-Infected Patients With Swollen
Lymph Nodes
Condition: HIV Infections
Intervention: Drug: AL 721

Study ID Numbers: ACTG 022
First Received: November 2, 1999
Last Updated: June 23, 2005
ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00001012
Health Authority: United States: Federal Government

--------------------------

"Alpha-linolenic acid might delay or prevent metastases in breast
cancer"

Alpha-linolenic acid prevents breast cancer from spreading
TOURS, FRANCE.
Medical doctors at the University Hospital in Tours have discovered
that breast cancer victims who have a high content of alpha-
linolenic
acid (9,12,15-octadecatrienoic acid) in their breast tissue are less
likely to develop metastases (cancer in distant organs such as the
stomach, intestines, etc.).
The study involved 121 women who had been diagnosed with localised
breast cancer.
The researchers analyzed samples of adipose (fatty) tissue taken
close
to the tumor at the time of surgery.
They found that the cancer was more likely to have spread to the
lymph
nodes in the armpits in women with a low level of alpha-linolenic
acid
in their tissue.
They found no relationship between alpha-linolenic acid content and
tumor size. After an average follow up of 31 months, 21 of the women
developed metastases. The researchers discovered that women who had a
high adipose tissue content of alpha-linolenic acid at the time of
surgery were five times less likely to have developed metastases than
did women with a low content (less than 0.38 per cent).
Original tumor size was also an important factor in predicting risk
of
metastasis which is the main cause of death among breast cancer
patients.
Women who had a tumor with a diameter greater than 5 cm had a 4.7
times greater risk of developing metastases than did women with
smaller tumors.
The researchers conclude that dietary supplementation with alpha-
linolenic acid might delay or prevent the development of metastases
in
breast cancer patients. They also point out that previous research
has
shown that a high intake of dietary fat originating from fish helps
prevent breast cancer in the first place and also improves survival
among breast cancer patients.
NOTE:
Flax oil, pumpkin oil and purslane are good sources of alpha-
linolenic
acid.

Bougnoux, P., et al. Alpha-linolenic acid content of adipose breast
tissue: a host determinant of the risk of early metastasis in breast
cancer. British Journal of Cancer, Vol. 70, No. 2, August 1994, pp.
330-34

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

Matti Narkia · Guest

monty1945@lycos.com wrote:

[quote]Genius intellect is not required here, Taka. Just make modifications
in your diet, and you can see for yourself (as I have) that dietary
PUFAs and not required and can only cause harm. Then, after you have
done harm, the omega 3s might mitigate the damage omega 6s do to some
degree, but that is clearly an illogical way to live your life.
[/quote]
And that is true because you say so? Give us some evidence for example
by telling us again that wonderful story about your great grandparents
not getting any PUFAs and still living long, and ignore again that
there have been plenty of people in Okinawa, Japan, who have gotten
_a lot_ of long-chain omega-3 PUFAs and have lived _much_ longer than
your great grandparents. I>m sure there are smokers, who have lived as
long as your great grandparents, but I haven>t heard any of their
relatives going around recommending smoking to everyone.

I hate arrogance, but even more I hate arrogance and stupidity in the
same person and same message.

--
Matti Narkia

http://ma.gnolia.com/groups/Nutrition

MikeV · Guest

<monty1945@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:738682d2-b577-41c9-9248-64760faac96b@t3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
[quote]Genius intellect is not required here, Taka. Just make modifications
in your diet, and you can see for yourself (as I have) that dietary
PUFAs and not required and can only cause harm. Then, after you have
done harm, the omega 3s might mitigate the damage omega 6s do to some
degree, but that is clearly an illogical way to live your life.
[/quote]
Ah! Both intellectual constipation and hemispherical dwarfism. You have
ideal qualifications for the topic.

Mike V

Taka · Guest

On Nov 28, 9:18 pm, Matti Narkia <m...@mbnet.fi> wrote:
[quote]Taka wrote:
There may be some truth to what Tom says about the n-3/n-6
precursors. Let the body decide and manufacture the LC-PUFAs as it
needs.

Actually, during two millions years of evolution before the invention
of agriculture 10000 - 15000 years ago our bodies have adapted to
getting the long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA, which have been
readily available in the meat of wild animals in addition to seafood,
directly from food.
[/quote]
The human race has not evolved on a seashore. Land animals are not
rich in LC-PUFAs. Actually the bacteria in rumen biohydrogenate the
PUFAs and thus reduce their double bond content. But if you feed the
cattle grains with antibiotics as during most modern meat production
you kill the FA saturase expressing bacteria in rumen and then the
PUFAs get straight into the animal fat. The bacteria (killed by
antibiotics) actually protect the fiber digesting symbiotic protozoa
(as well as the host) from the toxic effects of PUFAs.

[quote]Perhaps for that reason the conversion of ALA to
long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA has remained so ineffiecient
and unreliable: it has not been important. So our bodies don>t cope
very well with the situation, whera ALA is the only source of omega-3s.
[/quote]
They do cope well, if the EPA or DHA is needed the appropriate
desaturases/elongases are upregulated as during the pregnancy and
lactation.

[quote]On the other hand trying to outsmart the nature by supplying the LC-
PUFAs as Matti suggests may be dangerous particularly in the case of
Omega-3s (EPA, DHA) which are not only immunosuppressive (NK
inhibition) and cause allergies (Th1/Th2 balance disturbed) but most
importantly will oxidize and damage tissues.

Getting the long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA directly from food is
what we have been adapted to in evolution. In other words it is the
the way "nature intended" us to get most of our EPA and DHA. If it
were a dangerously immunosuppressive way to get our EPA and DHA,
the omnnivorous branch of human "family tree" would probably
have become extinct instead of the vegetarian branch.
[/quote]
So in your thinking omnivore equals cold water fatty fish eater?

[quote]As for allergies, they are characterized by a shift towards Th2
domination in Th1/Th2 balance. EPA and DHA do not cause such a shift.
EPA is neutral in relation to Th1/Th2 balance, and DHA may cause a
slight shift toward Th1 domination, i.e. a shift _preventing_
allergies and other atopic diseases.
[/quote]
Dead wrong again:

Dietary (n-3) polyunsaturated fatty acids modulate murine Th1/Th2
balance toward the Th2 pole by suppression of Th1 development.
PMID: 15987859

Dietary fish oil inhibits antigen-specific murine Th1 cell development
by suppression of clonal expansion.
PMID: 16920860

J Leukoc Biol. 2001 Mar;69(3):449-57.

Dietary fatty acids influence the production of Th1- but not Th2-type
cytokines.

Wallace FA, Miles EA, Evans C, Stock TE, Yaqoob P, Calder PC.
Institute of Human Nutrition, University of Southampton, United
Kingdom.

C57B16 mice were fed for 6 weeks on a low-fat diet or on high-fat
diets containing coconut oil (rich in saturated fatty acids),
safflower oil [rich in n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs)], or
fish oil (rich in n-3 PUFAs) as the main fat sources. The fatty acid
composition of the spleen lymphocytes was influenced by that of the
diet fed. Thymidine incorporation into concanavalin A-stimulated
spleen lymphocytes and interleukin (IL)-2 production were highest
after feeding the coconut oil diet. Interferon (IFN)-gamma production
was decreased by safflower oil or fish oil feeding. IL-4 production
was not significantly affected by diet, although production was lowest
by lymphocytes from fish oil-fed mice. The ratio of production of Th1-
to Th2-type cytokines (determined as the IFN-gamma/IL-4 ratio) was
lower for lymphocytes from mice fed the safflower oil or fish oil
diets. After 4 h of culture, IL-2 mRNA levels were higher in cells
from mice fed coconut oil, and IFN-gamma mRNA levels were higher in
cells from mice fed coconut oil or safflower oil. After 8 h of
culture, IL-2, IFN-gamma, and IL-4 mRNA levels were lowest in cells
from mice fed fish oil. The ratio of the relative levels of IFN-gamma
mRNA to IL-4 mRNA was highest in cells from mice fed coconut oil and
was lowest in cells of mice fed fish oil. The influence of individual
fatty acids on IL-2 production by murine spleen lymphocytes was
examined in vitro. Although all fatty acids decreased IL-2 production
in a concentration-dependent manner, saturated fatty acids were the
least potent and n-3 PUFAs the most potent inhibitors, with n-6 PUFAs
falling in between in terms of potency. It is concluded that saturated
fatty acids have minimal effects on cytokine production. In contrast,
PUFAs act to inhibit production of Th1-type cytokines with little
effect on Th2-type cytokines; n-3 PUFAs are particularly potent. The
effects of fatty acids on cytokine production appear to be exerted at
the level of gene expression.
PMID: 11261793

If any "EFAs" are helpful in autoimmunity diseases it>s the Omega-6
series, ever heard of TREGs?

Lipids. 2003 Apr;38(4):323-41.
Fatty acids, the immune response, and autoimmunity: a question of n-6
essentiality and the balance between n-6 and n-3.
PMID: 12848277

"high intakes of long-chain n-3 fatty acids (fish oils) are inhibitory
on a wide range of functions, e.g., antigen presentation, adhesion
molecule expression, Th1 and Th2 responses, proinflammatory cytokine
and eicosanoid production, and they induce lymphocyte apoptosis"

"In experimentally induced T cell-mediated autoimmune disease diets
supplemented with long-chain n-3 PUFA augment disease, whereas n-6
PUFA prevent or reduce the severity ... in both T cell- and antibody-
mediated autoimmune disease, the desaturated/elongated metabolites of
LA are protective"

[quote]We will be soon hearing about chronic/modern diseases caused by
overactive delta-5 desaturase or underactive delta-6 (causing lower
relative GLA levels). These genetic polymorphisms seem to be present
e.g. in atopy and some Japanese.

That>s your speculation, but even if so happens, what>s your point?
EPA _reduces_ delta-5 desaturase activity!
[/quote]
And thus kills prostaglandin and Mead acid production ...

[quote]Matti>s claim that EPA/DHA
stimulate brain development in babies is a double-edged sword since it
will also speed up the aging program.

There is no evidence of that. EPA and DHA are anti-inflammatory and
therefore help to reduce the harms of chronic low-grade inflammation,
which increase when we age.
[/quote]
Not so in those with Mead acid in their cells ...

[quote]Also, as mentioned many times, Japanese
and Icelandic, who get more EPA and DHA than others, also live
longer than others.
[/quote]
Okinawans have very high total cholesterol because they consume lot of
fatty pork meat, not fish. And I guess the pigs are fed coconut
instead of grains in that tropical climate. Never heard of Icelandic
longevity though.

[quote]Girls starting to menstruate at
the age of 10 these days while it was at the age of 20 over a century
ago. Then they get breast cancers and diabetes at the age of 40 and
pay the drug industry till the end of their lives ...

What>s you point? Surely that has nothing to do with long-chain
omega-3 PUFAs.
[/quote]
Nutr Cancer. 1998;30(2):137-43.

Effects of dietary n-3-to-n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid ratio on
mammary carcinogenesis in rats.

Sasaki T, Kobayashi Y, Shimizu J, Wada M, In>nami S, Kanke Y, Takita
T.
Division of Bioregulation Studies, Tokyo University of Agriculture,
Japan.

We investigated the effects of the dietary n-3-to-n-6 polyunsaturated
fatty acid (PUFA) ratio (n-3/n-6 ratio) on mammary carcinogenesis
induced by 7,12-dimethylbenz[a]anthracene in rats by feeding them
several types of dietary fat with a fixed PUFA-to-saturated fatty acid
ratio. Dietary fat was fed to the rats as 10% of the total feed
weight, starting two weeks before the initiation. An increase in the
n-3/n-6 ratio did not suppress the incidence or reduce the latency of
mammary tumor development. The number and weight of mammary tumors per
tumor-bearing rat tended to be large in the group with an n-3/n-6
ratio of 7.84 compared with those in the other groups. As the n-3/n-6
ratios were elevated, the total number and weight of tumors increased
gradually. The prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) concentration in mammary tumor
tissue was markedly low in the group with an n-3/n-6 ratio of 1.03
compared with the group with an n-3/n-6 ratio of 0.01. In addition,
PGE2 concentrations were almost constant when n-3/n-6 ratios were >
1.03. These results suggested that the increase in the n-3/n-6 ratio
of dietary fat with the fixed PUFA-to-saturated fatty acid ratio
cannot suppress the mammary carcinogenesis but can promote development
of tumors, despite reduced PGE2 concentration in the tumor.
PMID: 9589432

Carcinogenesis. 2005 Sep;26(9):1563-72. Epub 2005 May 11.

Opposing effects of prepubertal low- and high-fat n-3 polyunsaturated
fatty acid diets on rat mammary tumorigenesis.

Olivo SE, Hilakivi-Clarke L.
Lombardi Comprehensive Cancer Center, Georgetown University, 3970
Reservoir Road NW, Washington, DC, USA.

To determine whether dietary fat intake during childhood affects the
later risk of developing breast cancer, we fed prepubertal rats
between post-natal days 5 and 25 a low (16% energy) or high-fat (39%
energy) diet composed mainly of n-6 or n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids
(PUFAs) originating either from corn oil or menhaden oil,
respectively, in the ratios of 16-17:1 (n-6 PUFA diets) or 2-3:1 (n-3
PUFA diets). We also examined whether changes in risk are associated
with perturbations in biological processes previously linked to fatty
acid intake and breast cancer. Mammary tumorigenesis was induced by
treating 50-day-old rats with the carcinogen 7,12-dimethylbenz[a]
anthracene. When compared with the reference low-fat n-6 PUFA diet,
prepubertal exposure to the low-fat n-3 PUFA diet decreased, whereas a
high-fat n-3 PUFA diet increased mammary tumor incidence; the high-fat
n-6 PUFA diet had no effect. Both the low and high-fat n-3 PUFA diets
induced mammary epithelial differentiation by reducing the number of
terminal end buds (TEBs) and increasing the presence of lobulo-
alveolar structures. They also increased lipid peroxidation and
reduced cyclooxygenase-2 activity. Prepubertal exposure to the low-fat
n-3 PUFA diet increased apoptosis, determined using TUNEL assay, and
reduced cell proliferation, determined using PCNA staining. In marked
contrast, prepubertal exposure to the high-fat n-3 PUFA diet induced
cell proliferation and inhibited apoptosis in the TEBs and lobular
structures. The latter is consistent with the finding that pAkt, a
survival factor that inhibits apoptosis, was elevated in their mammary
glands. In summary, although prepubertal exposure to a low-fat n-3
PUFA diet reduced later mammary tumorigenesis in rats, high levels of
this fatty acid can have adverse effects on the prepubertal mammary
gland and increase subsequent breast cancer risk.
PMID: 15888492

J Nutr. 2005 Dec;135(12 Suppl):2946S-2952S.

Mechanisms mediating the effects of prepubertal (n-3) polyunsaturated
fatty acid diet on breast cancer risk in rats.

Hilakivi-Clarke L, Olivo SE, Shajahan A, Khan G, Zhu Y, Zwart A, Cho
E, Clarke R.
Department of Oncology, Georgetown University Medical Center,
Washington, DC 20057, USA.

Dietary exposures during childhood may influence later breast cancer
risk. We tested in an animal model the hypothesis that prepubertal
intake of (n-3) PUFAs, present mainly in fish, reduces susceptibility
to breast cancer. Between postnatal days 5 to 25, rat pups were fed
(n-3) PUFA-containing diets at a 2:1 ratio of (n-6):(n-3) PUFAs
(typical of prehistoric societies) or a control (n-6) PUFA diet at a
17:1 ratio of (n-6):(n-3) PUFAs (comparable with current Western
societies). These fatty acids were given in a low- or high-fat context
(16 or 39% energy from fat). The low-(n-3) PUFA diet reduced while the
high-(n-3) PUFA diet increased carcinogen-induced mammary
tumorigenesis. The low-(n-3) PUFA diet reduced mammary cell
proliferation and increased apoptosis, particularly in the terminal
end buds (the mammary source of malignant breast tumors). The high-
(n-3) PUFA diet had opposite effects on these 2 key biomarkers and
increased phospho-Akt levels, a survival factor. Microarray analyses
identified genes that were permanently upregulated in the low-(n-3)
PUFA-exposed glands and function in oxidative damage repair. Serum
levels of 8-hydroxy-2>deoxyguanosine, a marker of DNA damage, were
significantly reduced in these low-(n-3) PUFA-fed rats, and increased
in the high-(n-3) PUFA-exposed group. The latter group exhibited
reduced expression of BRCA1, a DNA repair gene. Our results indicate
that the opposing susceptibilities to mammary tumorigenesis between
the low- versus high-fat (n-3) PUFA-exposed groups were associated
with altered DNA damage repair and gene expression linked to
proliferation, survival, and differentiation.
PMID: 16317153

You would supplement those prepubertal girls with fish oil, wouldn>t
you Matti?

Taka

Matti Narkia · Guest

Taka wrote:

[quote]On Nov 28, 9:18 pm, Matti Narkia <m...@mbnet.fi> wrote:
Taka wrote:
There may be some truth to what Tom says about the n-3/n-6
precursors. Let the body decide and manufacture the LC-PUFAs as it
needs.
Actually, during two millions years of evolution before the invention
of agriculture 10000 - 15000 years ago our bodies have adapted to
getting the long-chain omega-3 PUFAs EPA and DHA, which have been
readily available in the meat of wild animals in addition to seafood,
directly from food.

The human race has not evolved on a seashore.
[/quote]
Actually it has. Some researches think that we all originate from a
settlement on the coast of southern Africa 164000 years ago, where have
been excavated a collection of shellfish remains, ochre pigments and
stone blades.

Even before that our ancestors living in inland Africa may have had
access to fish, shellfish and crustaceans. Unlike most other hot
climate animals, we have no real physiological adaptations to conserve
water. We needed to be by a plentiful and reliable supply of water. We
depended on the rivers, lakes, and marshes to survive the often fierce
African heat. This meant we were 'tied' to adjacent watercourses and
lakes within the Savannah and woodlands, and the fish and freshwater
shellfish and crustaceans they contained.

Here a study about that settlement on the coast of southern Africa
164000 years ago:

Early human use of marine resources and pigment in South Africa during
the Middle Pleistocene.
Marean CW, Bar-Matthews M, Bernatchez J, Fisher E, Goldberg P, Herries
AI, Jacobs Z, Jerardino A, Karkanas P, Minichillo T, Nilssen PJ,
Thompson E, Watts I, Williams HM.
Nature. 2007 Oct 18;449(7164):905-8.
PMID: 17943129
doi: 10.1038/nature06204
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v449/n7164/abs/nature06204.html

"Genetic and anatomical evidence suggests that Homo sapiens arose
in Africa between 200 and 100 thousand years (kyr) ago, and
recent evidence indicates symbolic behaviour may have appeared
approximately 135-75 kyr ago. From 195-130 kyr ago, the world
was in a fluctuating but predominantly glacial stage (marine
isotope stage MIS6); much of Africa was cooler and drier, and
dated archaeological sites are rare. Here we show that by
approximately 164 kyr ago (+/-12 kyr) at Pinnacle Point (on the
south coast of South Africa) humans expanded their diet to
include marine resources, perhaps as a response to these harsh
environmental conditions. The earliest previous evidence for
human use of marine resources and coastal habitats was dated to
approximately 125 kyr ago. Coincident with this diet and habitat
expansion is an early use and modification of pigment, probably
for symbolic behaviour, as well as the production of bladelet
stone tool technology, previously dated to post-70 kyr ago.
Shellfish may have been crucial to the survival of these early
humans as they expanded their home ranges to include coastlines
and followed the shifting position of the coast when sea level
fluctuated over the length of MIS6."

News articles commenting this study:

Early humans knew their way around makeup, tools and shellfish
22. 10. 2007.
<http://www.whatmakesushuman.com/news/>

"Researchers say the findings in South Africa suggest that the
hallmarks of modern human behavior had begun to develop much
earlier than previously thought.

Small stone blades and a reddish body pigment recently discovered
in a cave near the southern tip of South Africa suggest that the
use of symbolism and tools -- hallmarks of modern human behavior --
had already begun to develop 164,000 years ago, far earlier than
previously believed, researchers report.

Arizona researchers also found in the cave the earliest evidence
of seafood consumption. The earliest previous evidence of the
consumption of shellfish was dated to 125,000 years ago, and
the oldest stone tools, known as bladelets, were 70,000 years old.

[...]

Africa was cold and very dry during this period, and Marean and
his colleagues speculated that the shellfish were a kind of
"starvation food" the early humans turned to when there was
little else available.

Evidence indicates there were only a handful of places in Africa
where humans could have survived during this glacial period.
Mossel Bay may have been one of them, they said.

"It is possible that this population could be the progenitor
population for all modern humans," they wrote."

Early modern humans had a taste for seafood
New Scientist, 17 October 2007
<http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19626265.200-early-modern-humans-had-a-taste-for-seafood.html>
<http://tinyurl.com/6he76l>

"OUR ancestors dined on seafood, painted their bodies and made
delicate stone blades 164,000 years ago, much earlier than
previously realised. The discovery means that these cultural
features must have developed soon after modern humans evolved.

The evidence comes from a cave in South Africa overlooking the
Indian Ocean. Researchers led by Curtis Marean, an anthropologist
at Arizona State University in Tempe, excavated a collection of
shellfish remains, ochre pigments and stone blades, some of which
were just a centimetre wide. The team dated the earliest material
to 164,000 years ago, give or take 12,000 years (Nature, DOI:
10.1038/nature06204). This fits with estimates of sea level
during that period, which indicate that the cave was only within
easy walking distance of the shore about 167,000 years ago."

Earliest Known Seafood Dinner Discovered
Scientific American, October 17, 2007
<http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=earliest-known-seafood-di>

"When the going got tough, early humans went to the beach for
seafood and possibly a dose of symbolic thought, according to
a new study. Researchers excavating a cave on the southern coast
of South Africa discovered a bowl>s worth of edible shellfish
dating back to about 165,000 years ago, when Africa was colder
and drier—pushing back the earliest known seafood meal by
40,000 years. ..."

Cave clue to 'first beachcombers'
BBC News, Wednesday, 17 October 2007
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7049597.stm>

""Coastlines have few resources to attract hunter-gatherers if
their diets do not include shellfish and/or fish. Once they do,
coastlines become attractive for settlement and movement," they
write.

"It has been argued that shellfish exploitation was crucial to
a potential early coastal route of modern humans out of Africa
via the Red Sea coast."

One of the great challenges for scientists has been to assemble
the data to back up this theory. The difficulty is that rising
and falling sea levels over millennia have almost certainly
washed away key evidence.

The Pinnacle Point cave, although it stands directly on the
coast today some 15m above the waves, would actually have been
a few km from the shoreline when its inhabitants were eating
their shellfish meals.

Settlements directly on or near the beach 164,000 years ago
would now be under water.

As well as ASU workers, the research team included members from
Israel, Australia, UK, Greece, and South Africa itself.

One tantalising find was a whale barnacle. "It suggests they
might have used whale blubber. They probably weren>t hunting
the whale but if it washed up on shore they probably thought it
was good to eat," said Ms Thompson.One tantalising find was a
whale barnacle. "It suggests they might have used whale blubber.
They probably weren>t hunting the whale but if it washed up on
shore they probably thought it was good to eat," said Ms
Thompson."

This study claims that the fossil record from East Africa shows that
certain hominins were consuming large amounts of catfish, which are
easily caught by hand, and perch at least 2 million years ago:

Docosahexaenoic acid and human brain evolution: missing the forest for
the trees--comments by Cunnane.
Cunnane SC.
Br J Nutr. 2007 May;97(5):1021-2; discussion 1025.
PMID: 17408531
<http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=6&fid=986664&jid=&volumeId=&issueId=05&aid=986660>
<http://tinyurl.com/6ksq9e>

"... the fossil record from East Africa shows that certain
hominins were consuming large amounts of catfish and perch,
not 100 000 years ago but at least 2 million years ago (
Stewart, 1994). Hence, at least some groups of the first Homo
species (habilis) purposefully fished and were very familiar
with shore-based food resources. Freshwater fish are not as
rich in DHA as marine coldwater species but East African
catfish contain more than sufficient DHA to provide a very
good source (Pauletto et al. 1996; Broadhurst et al. 1998).
Furthermore, catfish are easily caught by hand, obviating the
need to postulate any advanced brain power, skills or
technology, as would have been necessary to hunt live animals,
marine fish or, indeed, to dissect the skulls or long bones
of dead savannah herbivores.

More about inmportance of DHA and seafood in the development of human
brain:

Origins and evolution of the Western diet: implications of iodine and
seafood intakes for the human brain.
Cunnane SC.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 Aug;82(2):483; author reply 483-4.
PMID: 16087997
<http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/short/82/2/483>
<http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/82/2/483>

"... The focusing of some attention on the human health
implications of declining iodine and seafood intakes is
warranted because those declining intakes are directly linked
to brain development. The modern-day vulnerability of the
developing human brain to inadequate intakes of iodine, iron,
docosahexaenoic acid, and several other brain-selective nutrients
shows that, if seafood had not been a significant component of t
he Paleolithic diet, the modern human brain probably would not
have evolved in the first place (6, 7)."

Evidence for the unique function of docosahexaenoic acid during the
evolution of the modern hominid brain.
Crawford MA, Bloom M, Broadhurst CL, Schmidt WF, Cunnane SC, Galli C,
Gehbremeskel K, Linseisen F, Lloyd-Smith J, Parkington J.
Lipids. 1999;34 Suppl:S39-47. Review.
PMID: 10419087
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10419087>

Here some information about fish in African inland waters:

Natural food-Seafood & Fresh water Food
<http://www.naturalhub.com/natural_food_guide_seafood.htm>

" ... Most of these larger watercourse fish would
probably Kasiha valley and river, Mahale Mountains, adjacent
only have been available in the most severe of dry spells,
when water levels were abnormally low. But we no doubt hunted
fish in shallow tributaries and the drying water courses
towards the end of the regular winter-spring dry season of
Southern Africa (may to november). Fish of the Cichilid group (
which includes species of Tilapia, now being commercially aqua
cultured in some countries) are important in shallow and slow
moving waters of Southern African river systems, especially in
the lower reaches of the rivers. They are particularly
successful in drought conditions, and one, Oreochromis
mossambicus, can survive extreme drought by breeding even when
stunted by poor conditions. Another, Pseudocrenilabrus
philander, is adapted to living in extremely shallow water-
perhaps a tempting subject for our evolving ancestors to trap
in crude weirs or brushwood traps.

The cycle of seasonal but unreliable rains with its concomitant
filling of smaller watercourses and subsequent slow drying out
again has been going on so long in Africa that one of the fish,
the African lungfish, Protopterus sp., has evolved to survive
in a-semi desiccated 'suspended animation' in the hardened mud
of the dried up river until the next rains releases it. These
fish were probably only accessible when the rivers were very
shallow, but before they had burrowed into the mud.
Nevertheless, they would have been a regular, if intermittent
resource.

Even the summer wet season may have had it>s fishing
opportunities. Shoals of small 'minnows' (various species of
the genus Barbus) increase in population rapidly following the
summer rain. The particularly common Barbus viviparus likes
shallow waters."

The Big Bang of modern human evolution
<http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2008/06/big-bang-of-modern-human-evolution.html>

"... Virtually all of these sites had piles of seashells. Together
with the much older evidence from the cave at Pinnacle Point, the
shells suggest that seafood may have served as a nutritional
trigger at a crucial point in human history, providing the fatty
acids that modern humans needed to fuel their outsize brains:
"This is the evolutionary driving force," says University of Cape
Town archaeologist John Parkington. "It is sucking people into
being more cognitively aware, faster-wired, faster-brained,
smarter." Stanford University paleoanthropologist Richard Klein
has long argued that a genetic mutation at roughly this point in
human history provoked a sudden increase in brainpower, perhaps
linked to the onset of speech."

PROFESSOR MICHAEL CRAWFORD - SEAFOOD HUMAN EVOLUTION AND GOOD HEALTH
<http://www.seafood.net.au/page/?pid=404>

"In an interview with Martin Bowerman, Professor Crawford discusses
the vital role that seafood played in human evolution, the
importance of seafood to human health, and the range of health
problems, including an increase in brain disorders, caused by the
decline in seafood consumption."'

Evidence for the unique function of docosahexaenoic acid during the
evolution of the modern hominid brain.
Crawford MA, Bloom M, Broadhurst CL, Schmidt WF, Cunnane SC, Galli C,
Gehbremeskel K, Linseisen F, Lloyd-Smith J, Parkington J.
Lipids. 1999;34 Suppl:S39-47. Review.
PMID: 10419087
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10419087>

[quote]Land animals are not
rich in LC-PUFAs.
[/quote]
Some are, some are not. Wild game meat is relatively rich in LC omega-3
PUFAs, so was probably meat of wild animals hunted by our ancestors.
And our ancestors didn>t eat only muscle meats, the eat also organ
meats including brain, which is particularly rich in omega-3 DHA
(also: wild bears fishing salmons in the rivers of Alaska eat only
brains of salmon end eggs of female salmon during the high salmon season).

Modern domestic grain-fed animals are not so rich in LC omega-3 PUFAs,
but even then they still seem to form almost half of the average
modern day adult>s intake of LC omega-3 PUFAs, mostly DPA:

Dietary intake of long-chain omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids:
contribution of meat sources.
Howe P, Meyer B, Record S, Baghurst K.
Nutrition. 2006 Jan;22(1):47-53. Epub 2005 Nov 14.
PMID: 16289978
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16289978>

"... CONCLUSION: Meat is a major source of LCn3PUFA, particularly
DPA, for most Australians. When DPA is included in the definition
of LCn3PUFAs, almost half the average adult intake of LCn3PUFA
appears to originate from meat sources."

Meat of modern grass.fed animals is richer in LC omega-3 PUFAs than
meat of typically grain-fed animals:

Effect of feeding systems on omega-3 fatty acids, conjugated linoleic
acid and trans fatty acids in Australian beef cuts: potential impact on
human health.
Ponnampalam EN, Mann NJ, Sinclair AJ.
Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2006;15(1):21-9.
PMID: 16500874
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16500874>

"There was a significantly higher level of total omega-3 (n-3) and
long chain n-3 FA in grass-fed beef (P< 0.0001) than the grain-fed
groups regardless of cut types.

[...]

Data from the present study show that grain feeding decreases
functional lipid components (long chain n-3 FA and CLA) in
Australian beef regardless of meat cuts, while increasing total


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