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dank
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 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: Psychology, religion, and brainwashing... |
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My opinion is that the pseudoscience known as psychology qualifies as a
a religion. Like religious beliefs, psychology beliefs have no basis
in science and there is no way to measure its effectiveness because
the evidence is inside the participant>s head.
Expensive psychotherapy does indeed make some people happy, but giving
money to teevee preechers makes other people happy, and still others
blow their paychecks on psychics and tarot card readers and buy lots
of magic crystals and that makes them happy. Measuring an increase in
happiness does not prove the scientific validity of any of these
philosophies, and almost all "normal" people would view these "happy"
people as brainwashed.
The problem with psychology is that it uses scientific-sounding language
to elevate its status above that of common brainwashing cults like
xianity, newage, or izlam. Bizarre religious cults like Scientology
even use similar pseudoscientific language to blur the lines between it
and "mainstream" psychology, and there really is no apparent difference
in that both psychology and scientology involve annoying people asking
you a lot of questions and taking all your money. |
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M Winther
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Psychology, religion, and brainwashing... |
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Den 2007-10-15 14:07:28 skrev dank <dank@nugget.org>:
[quote]My opinion is that the pseudoscience known as psychology qualifies as a
a religion. Like religious beliefs, psychology beliefs have no basis
in science and there is no way to measure its effectiveness because
the evidence is inside the participant>s head.
Expensive psychotherapy does indeed make some people happy, but giving
money to teevee preechers makes other people happy, and still others
blow their paychecks on psychics and tarot card readers and buy lots
of magic crystals and that makes them happy. Measuring an increase in
happiness does not prove the scientific validity of any of these
philosophies, and almost all "normal" people would view these "happy"
people as brainwashed.
The problem with psychology is that it uses scientific-sounding language
to elevate its status above that of common brainwashing cults like
xianity, newage, or izlam. Bizarre religious cults like Scientology
even use similar pseudoscientific language to blur the lines between it
and "mainstream" psychology, and there really is no apparent difference
in that both psychology and scientology involve annoying people asking
you a lot of questions and taking all your money.
[/quote]
Had elemental particles, like electrons, had recourse to a "free will"
then physics and quantum mechanics would not qualify as a science
either, because the damned electrons would tend to go in any direction
they happen to prefer. Nevertheless, even if psychology cannot fully
qualify as science it has no other choice than to accomodate to the
scientific ideals to the best of its ability. So it will qualifiy as
"almost science", and this is good enough.
The relentless attacks against psychotherapy are hard to understand.
While we are social, communicative creatures, we tend to feel better
if we can express our inner ailments in therapy with another person.
The problems are moved into consciousness. In the light of day the
problems get their proper dimension and can be dealt with. The other
person helps to carry the moral burden.
In itself, it has a therapeutic effect only to express one>s problems
to another person. If our body aches then we immediately feel better
after a massage. This is how we humans function. There is nothing
magic about therapy. It is not a hoax. Psychotherapy helps in a
majority of cases.
Mats |
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dank
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Psychology, religion, and brainwashing... |
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M Winther wrote...
[quote]The relentless attacks against psychotherapy are hard to understand.
While we are social, communicative creatures, we tend to feel better
if we can express our inner ailments in therapy with another person.
The problems are moved into consciousness. In the light of day the
problems get their proper dimension and can be dealt with. The other
person helps to carry the moral burden.
[/quote]
It is not hard to understand at all. I grew up around religion and
soon became aware of what it was and saw the most fucked up people
earn a living within the religion industry. People with no useful
skills and who are seriously mentally disturbed are able to convince
others of the necessity of their services, services normal people
can easily live without. Paying pedophile priests to listen to you
confess your sins and bestow the gods' forgiveness may make you
happy, but it is an unscientific scam.
I paused on the Dr. Fucking Phil show the other day and he reminds
me so much of a typical xian preecher, using psychobabble instead
of scripture to make guests feel like sinners. Since some people
like to be abused, they purchase Dr. Fucking Phil>s self-help books
and magic herbal diet pills and make him very rich. |
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M Winther
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Psychology, religion, and brainwashing... |
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Den 2007-10-15 15:58:44 skrev dank <dank@nugget.org>:
[quote]M Winther wrote...
The relentless attacks against psychotherapy are hard to understand.
While we are social, communicative creatures, we tend to feel better
if we can express our inner ailments in therapy with another person.
The problems are moved into consciousness. In the light of day the
problems get their proper dimension and can be dealt with. The other
person helps to carry the moral burden.
It is not hard to understand at all. I grew up around religion and
soon became aware of what it was and saw the most fucked up people
earn a living within the religion industry. People with no useful
skills and who are seriously mentally disturbed are able to convince
others of the necessity of their services, services normal people
can easily live without. Paying pedophile priests to listen to you
confess your sins and bestow the gods' forgiveness may make you
happy, but it is an unscientific scam.
I paused on the Dr. Fucking Phil show the other day and he reminds
me so much of a typical xian preecher, using psychobabble instead
of scripture to make guests feel like sinners. Since some people
like to be abused, they purchase Dr. Fucking Phil>s self-help books
and magic herbal diet pills and make him very rich.
[/quote]
But Dr. Phil is an uncommon phenomenon in the therapeutic world.
There are similarities with the American business-oriented preachers
(a phenomenon unknown here in Europe). But Dr. Phil has one
advantage. To some extent he teaches people how to deal with their
little neuroses and to take heed of moral issues. I don>t think it>s
altogether bad. Everything has a downside and an upside. Existence
is ambivalent. Don>t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Mats |
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ªºª rrock
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Psychology, religion, and brainwashing... |
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dank wrote:
[quote]My opinion is that the pseudoscience known as psychology qualifies as a
a religion. Like religious beliefs, psychology beliefs have no basis
in science and there is no way to measure its effectiveness because
the evidence is inside the participant>s head.
Expensive psychotherapy does indeed make some people happy, but giving
money to teevee preechers makes other people happy, and still others
blow their paychecks on psychics and tarot card readers and buy lots
of magic crystals and that makes them happy. Measuring an increase in
happiness does not prove the scientific validity of any of these
philosophies, and almost all "normal" people would view these "happy"
people as brainwashed.
[/quote]
Uhm, so, how many "normal" people are we talking about?
[quote]The problem with psychology is that it uses scientific-sounding language
to elevate its status above that of common brainwashing cults like
xianity, newage, or izlam. Bizarre religious cults like Scientology
even use similar pseudoscientific language to blur the lines between it
and "mainstream" psychology, and there really is no apparent difference
in that both psychology and scientology involve annoying people asking
you a lot of questions and taking all your money.[/quote] |
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ªºª rrock
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Psychology, religion, and brainwashing... |
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M Winther wrote:
[quote]Den 2007-10-15 14:07:28 skrev dank <dank@nugget.org>:
My opinion is that the pseudoscience known as psychology qualifies as a
a religion. Like religious beliefs, psychology beliefs have no basis
in science and there is no way to measure its effectiveness because
the evidence is inside the participant>s head.
Expensive psychotherapy does indeed make some people happy, but giving
money to teevee preechers makes other people happy, and still others
blow their paychecks on psychics and tarot card readers and buy lots
of magic crystals and that makes them happy. Measuring an increase in
happiness does not prove the scientific validity of any of these
philosophies, and almost all "normal" people would view these "happy"
people as brainwashed.
The problem with psychology is that it uses scientific-sounding language
to elevate its status above that of common brainwashing cults like
xianity, newage, or izlam. Bizarre religious cults like Scientology
even use similar pseudoscientific language to blur the lines between it
and "mainstream" psychology, and there really is no apparent difference
in that both psychology and scientology involve annoying people asking
you a lot of questions and taking all your money.
Had elemental particles, like electrons, had recourse to a "free will"
then physics and quantum mechanics would not qualify as a science
either, because the damned electrons would tend to go in any direction
they happen to prefer. Nevertheless, even if psychology cannot fully
qualify as science it has no other choice than to accomodate to the
scientific ideals to the best of its ability. So it will qualifiy as
"almost science", and this is good enough.
The relentless attacks against psychotherapy are hard to understand.
While we are social, communicative creatures, we tend to feel better
if we can express our inner ailments in therapy with another person.
The problems are moved into consciousness. In the light of day the
problems get their proper dimension and can be dealt with. The other
person helps to carry the moral burden.
In itself, it has a therapeutic effect only to express one>s problems
to another person. If our body aches then we immediately feel better
after a massage. This is how we humans function. There is nothing
magic about therapy. It is not a hoax. Psychotherapy helps in a
majority of cases.
Mats
[/quote]
So, in effect, you are saying that psychotherapy ranks right up there
with the Christian confession booths and uses the same technique. Since
the latter was around before the former, does that make the former more
of a godless-religion? or the latter a science? All you>d need to add
to psychotherapy to make it a direct fit would be that the subject be
also given some positive affirmations to repeat to himself a number of
times to assist in self-brainwashing his problems away. |
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