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 Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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On Oct 10, 2:55 pm, Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote:
[quote]On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:35:18 -0700, Video61 wrote:
On Oct 10, 11:12 am, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:26:24 -0400, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
Nasdaq at Jan 1998 lvels
DOW at March 1998 levels.
I think the "free trade" chickens have come home to roost.
I think they>re being trucked to the processing plant.
Maybe.., but the politicians, the media, academia still worship, in a
cult like manner, at the altar of free trade and tax cutting too.
yes, but there are cracks appearing. the lower the markets go, the
less clout the free market has. we might not see the cult wiped out for
decades, but, it can be neutralized.
Do not attack "free markets". That is still a fools game. We have an
extreme amount of REAL wealth in America and it is simply because our
natural resource to population ratio is very high. Free trade does not
hurt that fact. The lack of a proper distribution of gains from free
markets is the real problem. In the Republican version of "free trade"
the owners of foreign assets get very rich while the rest of us suck
eggs. That can also be said for asset utilization based on H1B and
illegal immigrant labor. We must do away with the immigrant labor (not
LEGAL immigrants mind you) and do away with H1B visas. We may well be
able to increase LEGAL IMMIGRATION quotas but wages in this nation must
rise substantially before that can be done.
Our problem is _*OIL*_. But the middle class will be a lot better off
paying $10 a gallon for fuel while having a good job, than they will
paying $3 a gallon and not having a job.
A different and better economy is not too far away.
[/quote]
there are certain connotations to the word free, as i have said,
liberty, or freedom can mean, free to do as you please. i was very
pleased to watch nurial roubini state that on t.v. about 2 weeks ago,
when he was arguing with a laissez-fairest. |
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:26:24 -0400, dapra <dapra1@comcast.net> wrote:
[quote]retrogrouch@comcast.net wrote:
Nasdaq at Jan 1998 lvels
DOW at March 1998 levels.
I think the "free trade" chickens have come home to roost.
[/quote]
Where are all those boys who said we were "the sky is falling" chicken
littles and "doom and gloom purveyors" when we were warning this
couldn>t continue this way?
They>re no rearranging their excuses and lining up their blame game.
No responsibility for them. |
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dapra
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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retrogrouch@comcast.net wrote:
[quote]On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:26:24 -0400, dapra <dapra1@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogrouch@comcast.net wrote:
Nasdaq at Jan 1998 lvels
DOW at March 1998 levels.
I think the "free trade" chickens have come home to roost.
I think they>re being trucked to the processing plant.
[/quote]
Maybe.., but the politicians, the media, academia still worship, in a
cult like manner, at the altar of free trade and tax cutting too. |
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alexy
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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retrogrouch@comcast.net wrote:
[quote]On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:26:24 -0400, dapra <dapra1@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogrouch@comcast.net wrote:
Nasdaq at Jan 1998 lvels
DOW at March 1998 levels.
I think the "free trade" chickens have come home to roost.
Where are all those boys who said we were "the sky is falling" chicken
littles and "doom and gloom purveyors"
Well, I referred to Lisa-Lisa>s "This is the beginning of the end"[/quote]
hyperbole as chicken-little, and I stand by that. I certainly didn>t
think it would get this bad, but I still think that three years from
now we will look back on this as an ugly memory, not as "the beginning
of the end". I think Obama will provide the kind of leadership needed
to "right the ship".
[quote]when we were warning this couldn>t continue this way
I presume this is a typo?[/quote]
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:47:24 -0400, alexy <nospam@asbry.net> wrote:
[quote]retrogrouch@comcast.net wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:26:24 -0400, dapra <dapra1@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogrouch@comcast.net wrote:
Nasdaq at Jan 1998 lvels
DOW at March 1998 levels.
I think the "free trade" chickens have come home to roost.
Where are all those boys who said we were "the sky is falling" chicken
littles and "doom and gloom purveyors"
Well, I referred to Lisa-Lisa>s "This is the beginning of the end"
hyperbole as chicken-little, and I stand by that. I certainly didn>t
think it would get this bad,
[/quote]
This bad? SHit, you haven>t seen bad yet. This is just starting.
[quote]but I still think that three years from
now we will look back on this as an ugly memory, not as "the beginning
of the end". I think Obama will provide the kind of leadership needed
to "right the ship".
[/quote]
You just need to ask her "the end of what"?
SHe>s quite bright. I>m sure she>d give you an answer that would turn
out to be true.
[quote]when we were warning this couldn>t continue this way
I presume this is a typo?
[/quote]
Why? You presume a different "this". |
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alexy
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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retrogrouch@comcast.net wrote:
[quote]On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:47:24 -0400, alexy <nospam@asbry.net> wrote:
retrogrouch@comcast.net wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:26:24 -0400, dapra <dapra1@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogrouch@comcast.net wrote:
Nasdaq at Jan 1998 lvels
DOW at March 1998 levels.
I think the "free trade" chickens have come home to roost.
Where are all those boys who said we were "the sky is falling" chicken
littles and "doom and gloom purveyors"
Well, I referred to Lisa-Lisa>s "This is the beginning of the end"
hyperbole as chicken-little, and I stand by that. I certainly didn>t
think it would get this bad,
This bad? SHit, you haven>t seen bad yet. This is just starting.
I hope you>re wrong. We>ll see.[/quote]
[quote]
but I still think that three years from
now we will look back on this as an ugly memory, not as "the beginning
of the end". I think Obama will provide the kind of leadership needed
to "right the ship".
You just need to ask her "the end of what"?
SHe>s quite bright. I>m sure she>d give you an answer that would turn
out to be true.
Well, I asked Vid <g>.[/quote]
[quote]when we were warning this couldn>t continue this way
I presume this is a typo?
Why? You presume a different "this".
Aha. Understood.[/quote]
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:45:30 -0400, alexy <nospam@asbry.net> wrote:
[quote]This bad? SHit, you haven>t seen bad yet. This is just starting.
I hope you>re wrong. We>ll see.
[/quote]
I wish I was too. If people had listened to us chicken little 4 years
ago or even 2 this could have been contained to a minor thing. But
instead they just shored it up with duct tape and kept building the
house of cards higher.
A friend described it as built leaning into the wind of faith till
faith was all that held it up. Now that wind has stopped. |
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Michael Coburn
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:06:56 -0700, Video61 wrote:
[quote]On Oct 10, 9:26Â am, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
Nasdaq at Jan 1998 lvels
DOW at March 1998 levels.
I think the "free trade" chickens have come home to roost.
Free trade is a simple idea of the Corporate Oligarchy; Â Use foreign,
cheap labor to make more profit. It will help to reduce the price of
domestic labor at the same time and make more profit. Since the foreign
'slave' laborers can>t afford to buy what they produce, tariffs must be
eliminated, and products must be sold to 'rich' customers. Phase I.
As the 'rich' customers become less and less 'rich'. It>s time to
persuade them that they are still 'rich'. Cheap money, increased value
of their homes can do the trick, and induce them to borrow and consume
more. Phase II.
Then the merry go around stops, crash, the party is over. Phase III.
But wait! When the people are sucked dry our politicians can still sell
our yet unborn grandchildren>s future to the Corporate Oligarchy. Phase
IV is under way.
that is all correct.
[/quote]
NO. It need not be correct. The nice thing about fiat money is that,
unlike diamonds, it is not "forever". We can always print more of it and
the stuff that currently exists in Chinese T-Bills and bonds and in the
Swiss bank accounts will be dramatically devalued. The nice part is that
the true "investments" in real capital -- in real businesses will be fine. |
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Michael Coburn
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:35:18 -0700, Video61 wrote:
[quote]On Oct 10, 11:12Â am, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:26:24 -0400, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
Nasdaq at Jan 1998 lvels
DOW at March 1998 levels.
I think the "free trade" chickens have come home to roost.
I think they>re being trucked to the processing plant.
Maybe.., but the politicians, the media, academia still worship, in a
cult like manner, at the altar of free trade and tax cutting too.
yes, but there are cracks appearing. the lower the markets go, the
less clout the free market has. we might not see the cult wiped out for
decades, but, it can be neutralized.
[/quote]
Do not attack "free markets". That is still a fools game. We have an
extreme amount of REAL wealth in America and it is simply because our
natural resource to population ratio is very high. Free trade does not
hurt that fact. The lack of a proper distribution of gains from free
markets is the real problem. In the Republican version of "free trade"
the owners of foreign assets get very rich while the rest of us suck
eggs. That can also be said for asset utilization based on H1B and
illegal immigrant labor. We must do away with the immigrant labor (not
LEGAL immigrants mind you) and do away with H1B visas. We may well be
able to increase LEGAL IMMIGRATION quotas but wages in this nation must
rise substantially before that can be done.
Our problem is _*OIL*_. But the middle class will be a lot better off
paying $10 a gallon for fuel while having a good job, than they will
paying $3 a gallon and not having a job.
A different and better economy is not too far away. |
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alexy
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:27 am Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote:
[quote]On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:35:18 -0700, Video61 wrote:
On Oct 10, 11:12 am, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:26:24 -0400, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
Nasdaq at Jan 1998 lvels
DOW at March 1998 levels.
I think the "free trade" chickens have come home to roost.
I think they>re being trucked to the processing plant.
Maybe.., but the politicians, the media, academia still worship, in a
cult like manner, at the altar of free trade and tax cutting too.
yes, but there are cracks appearing. the lower the markets go, the
less clout the free market has. we might not see the cult wiped out for
decades, but, it can be neutralized.
Do not attack "free markets". That is still a fools game.
[/quote]
Absolutely, and a lot has to do with semantics. "Free" and "freedom"
are perceived very positively. Attacking "free" is, as you say, a
fools errand. You will note that intelligent people make many of the
same argument promoting fair trade rather than knocking free trade.
"Fair" and "Free" are both positive concepts. Even if the effects are
largely the same, someone promoting a positive will be much more
favorably received than someone opposing a positive.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:33 am Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:27:37 -0400, alexy <nospam@asbry.net> wrote:
[quote]someone promoting a positive will be much more
favorably received than someone opposing a positive.
[/quote]
From your mouth to McCain>s ear. |
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alexy
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:50 am Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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Stray Dog <sdog2008@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
[quote]
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, alexy wrote:
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:27:37 -0400
From: alexy <nospam@asbry.net
Newsgroups: alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values
Michael Coburn <mikcob@verizon.net> wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:35:18 -0700, Video61 wrote:
On Oct 10, 11:12 am, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 10:26:24 -0400, dapra <dap...@comcast.net> wrote:
retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
Nasdaq at Jan 1998 lvels
DOW at March 1998 levels.
I think the "free trade" chickens have come home to roost.
I think they>re being trucked to the processing plant.
Maybe.., but the politicians, the media, academia still worship, in a
cult like manner, at the altar of free trade and tax cutting too.
yes, but there are cracks appearing. the lower the markets go, the
less clout the free market has. we might not see the cult wiped out for
decades, but, it can be neutralized.
Do not attack "free markets". That is still a fools game.
Absolutely, and a lot has to do with semantics. "Free" and "freedom"
are perceived very positively. Attacking "free" is, as you say, a
fools errand. You will note that intelligent people make many of the
same argument promoting fair trade rather than knocking free trade.
"Fair" and "Free" are both positive concepts.
Only to the extent that a person is willing to pay for access to that
"freedom". If you are broke/poor, you don>t have any freedom.
Even if the effects are
largely the same, someone promoting a positive will be much more
favorably received than someone opposing a positive.
You mean that anyone selling the idea that it is a good idea to buy into
the stock market now because the shares are so cheap is selling a
"positive"?
[/quote]
No, go back and try to read more carefully. I was comparing being FOR
fair trade versus being AGAINST free trade.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently. |
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alexy
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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retrogrouch@comcast.net wrote:
[quote]On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:27:37 -0400, alexy <nospam@asbry.net> wrote:
someone promoting a positive will be much more
favorably received than someone opposing a positive.
From your mouth to McCain>s ear.
[/quote]
Yep, and I hope he goes down so hard that the lesson is learned.
Okay, maybe the "lesson is learned" part is a pipe dream, but one can
always hope!
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently. |
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alexy
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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Stray Dog <sdog2008@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
[quote]And, you did not read MY clarification that "free" does not mean cheap or
without costs.
[/quote]
And exactly how do you claim to know that?
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently. |
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Stray Dog
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values |
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2008, alexy wrote:
[quote]Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:39:38 -0400
From: alexy <nospam@asbry.net
Newsgroups: alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: Dow at October 1997 values
Stray Dog <sdog2008@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
And, you did not read MY clarification that "free" does not mean cheap or
without costs.
And exactly how do you claim to know that?
[/quote]
The answer was in the part you deleted. Thanks for showing everyone what a
sneaky-cheaty-tricky guy you are by the use of one of many of your tricks.
[quote]--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.
[/quote] |
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