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Duan Vukoti
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 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Vamos a hablar claro |
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On Jul 30, 5:51pm, Antnio Marques <m...@sapo.pt> wrote:
[quote]Harlan Messinger wrote:
Duan Vukoti wrote:
That Spanish humo and Latin fumus are undisputable related to Slavic
dim (smoke) speaks the English word chimney (Sp. chimenea, Serb.
dimnjak; OHG cheminta).
Are you going to try to *force* us to go off on this tangent again?
Just what fumus has to do with chimney is the part that escapes me.
[/quote]
I don>t thing that this guy, Antonio, has ever read any serious
linguistic literature. If he had read just the basic books about the
history of language development, he wouldn>t have asked such a naive
question. Maybe the Manx chymlee can help him here, or Irish
seimileur, simne (chimney; cf. Serb. dimljenje fumigation, dimnjak
chimney)? It seems he is unable to grasp that chimney is related to
fumus (Slavic dim; dimnjak <= chimney).
DV |
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Harlan Messinger
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Vamos a hablar claro |
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Duan Vukoti wrote:
[quote]On Jul 30, 3:08 pm, Harlan Messinger
hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Duan Vukoti wrote:
On Jul 25, 1:02 pm, Antnio Marques <m...@sapo.pt> wrote:
Harlan Messinger wrote:
By the way--in Spanish, any idea why "fumar" as well as "humear"?
'Humear' is normal, either coming directly from latin or being derived
from 'humo'.
'Fumar' is a 16th century word, not necessarily created from humo.
Notice that even in portuguese, which has fumo/fumar, the connection
between the two isn>t that obvious, and this in a language in which such
relationships are usually clear to speakers (iow, smoke from a fire is
the primary meaning of 'fumo', while cigar smoke almost feels like a
simple homophone). That said, there is a _humar_ 'emit smoke', and
'fumar' could be construed as a learned variation, but I think the
primary sense of 'fumar' is transitive, which is not possible with
'humar'. To make a long story short, sp. 'fumar' appears only in the
16th century, either taken from latin or as a latin-influenced creation
from 'humar'.
--
Antnio Marques
--
This signature does not include a prefab parting phrase
** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
That Spanish humo and Latin fumus are undisputable related to Slavic
dim (smoke) speaks the English word chimney (Sp. chimenea, Serb.
dimnjak; OHG cheminta).
Are you going to try to *force* us to go off on this tangent again?
I bet you are unable to grasp why Spanish horno (furnace; Lat.fornax)
became horn (chimney) in Romanian?
Who says we even care?
Even in Serbian there are the verbs
hurnjati and furnjati (both with meaning "to burn"), but they are
derived from different basis (furnjati comes from purenje "burn",
while hurnjati sprang from goreti/gorjeti <= gor-gneti; gorenje
"flaming"). How it happened that you have in Spanish fumigar and
humear (both with the meaning "fumigate")? Of course, both of these
words are derived from the same basis - Gon-Bel-Gon (*(t)koi-mo-; hom-
=> dom-).
How can they "of course" be from something you made up
How long are you going to repeat this infantile question?
[/quote]
Infantile? It>s the question that will logically follow, in perpetuity,
when someone repeatedly claims that words are derived from some system
that he made up.
[quote]I made nothing up;
[/quote]
Then prove it.
[quote]the Gon-Bel-Gon basis is one of a few forms of the
primal agglutination of articulated syllables and its basic meaning is
"round heap": oblak, cloud, zemlja, heaven, Himmel, hip etc.
[/quote]
You>ve said so many times and, like all the other times, you expect it
to be taken as true just because you say it is.
[quote]But your
ability of critical thinking is equal to zero!
[/quote]
Only in the sense that "critical thinking" means "accepting everything
you>re told by someone who can>t support his claims". But if you think
that that>s what "critical thinking" means, you>re mistaken. |
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António Marques
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Vamos a hablar claro |
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Harlan Messinger wrote:
[quote]Dušan Vukotić wrote:
That Spanish humo and Latin fumus are undisputable related to Slavic
dim (smoke) speaks the English word chimney (Sp. chimenea, Serb.
dimnjak; OHG chemināta).
Are you going to try to *force* us to go off on this tangent again?
[/quote]
Just what fumus has to do with chimney is the part that escapes me. I>ve
already given him the possible(?) relationship between fumus and dim
(fum- < dhum-), but he doesn>t seem to like it. It>s also a mystery* why
he keeps hammering on spanish, as every single word he>s brought up so
far can be just as fancifully 'compared' to slavic in its original latin
version.
(*) Or maybe not. Maybe it>s just confirmation
[quote]I bet you are unable to grasp why Spanish horno (furnace; Lat.fornax)
became horn (chimney) in Romanian?
Who says we even care?
[/quote]
Romanian horn, is, itself, from slavic, and has nothing to do (unless at
an earlier stage, of course) with horno, which is a completely regular
development from latin furnus (pt forno, catoc forn, etc), of which the
romanian development would have been furnu (there is furnal, likely from
fr fourneau).
[quote]How it happened that you have in Spanish fumigar and
humear (both with the meaning "fumigate")?
[/quote]
Humear means 'to emit smoke' and is inherited. Fumigar is a learned word
and means 'to expose to smoke'.
--
António Marques
--
This signature does not include a prefab parting phrase
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
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Harlan Messinger
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: Re: Vamos a hablar claro |
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Duan Vukoti wrote:
[quote]On Jul 30, 5:51 pm, Antnio Marques <m...@sapo.pt> wrote:
Harlan Messinger wrote:
Duan Vukoti wrote:
That Spanish humo and Latin fumus are undisputable related to Slavic
dim (smoke) speaks the English word chimney (Sp. chimenea, Serb.
dimnjak; OHG cheminta).
Are you going to try to *force* us to go off on this tangent again?
Just what fumus has to do with chimney is the part that escapes me.
I don>t thing that this guy, Antonio, has ever read any serious
linguistic literature. If he had read just the basic books about the
history of language development, he wouldn>t have asked such a naive
question. Maybe the Manx chymlee can help him here, or Irish
seimileur, simne (chimney; cf. Serb. dimljenje fumigation, dimnjak
chimney)? It seems he is unable to grasp that chimney is related to
fumus (Slavic dim; dimnjak <= chimney).
[/quote]
Since "chymlee", "seimileur", and "simne" don>t look any more like
"fumus" than "chimney" does, and since you have provided no support for
an etymological connection between any of them and "dimnjak", I>m
curious in what way you think you>ve answered Antonio>s question. If
you>re so attuned to the serious linguistic literature, then perhaps you
can indicate *where* in the serious linguistic literature this
connection is demonstrated. Or is this just one more instance of you
using the phrase "unable to grasp" to mean "not believing it just
because I say so"? |
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Duan Vukoti
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Vamos a hablar claro |
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On Jul 30, 10:28 pm, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
[quote]Duðan Vukotiã wrote:
On Jul 30, 5:51 pm, António Marques <m...@sapo.pt> wrote:
Harlan Messinger wrote:
Duðan Vukotiã wrote:
That Spanish humo and Latin fumus are undisputable related to Slavic
dim (smoke) speaks the English word chimney (Sp. chimenea, Serb.
dimnjak; OHG cheminâta).
Are you going to try to *force* us to go off on this tangent again?
Just what fumus has to do with chimney is the part that escapes me.
I don>t thing that this guy, Antonio, has ever read any serious
linguistic literature. If he had read just the basic books about the
history of language development, he wouldn>t have asked such a naive
question. Maybe the Manx chymlee can help him here, or Irish
seimileur, simne (chimney; cf. Serb. dimljenje fumigation, dimnjak
chimney)? It seems he is unable to grasp that chimney is related to
fumus (Slavic dim; dimnjak <= chimney).
Since "chymlee", "seimileur", and "simne" don>t look any more like
"fumus" than "chimney" does, and since you have provided no support for
an etymological connection between any of them and "dimnjak", I>m
curious in what way you think you>ve answered Antonio>s question. If
you>re so attuned to the serious linguistic literature, then perhaps you
can indicate *where* in the serious linguistic literature this
connection is demonstrated. Or is this just one more instance of you
using the phrase "unable to grasp" to mean "not believing it just
because I say so"?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
In Serbia, when one couns the number of households of a settlement one
counts the number od chimneys; i.e. the fraze "how many chimneys (a
certain place have)" is used instead of "how many housholds". As I
already told, chimney is "dimnjak" in Serbian, and that word is
clearly related to the other Serbian words as domaćin (master, host,
lord), domaćinstvo (household) and dom (home).
I think you know that Russian комната (room) is the cognate of the
Latin word caminus (forge, stove). In fact, Russian "komnata" is
probably a loan word from MHG kemenate (room with a fireplace; MLHG
chemināta). Now compare Slavic dim (smoke) and dom (home), dimnjak
(chimney) and domaćinstvo (household) and you will probably be able to
see that Latin caminus is the word which has been derived from the
same source as home, humus, fumus, dominus etc.
It is interesting to mention that the Serbo-Slavic kamen (stone) is
also coming from the "gonbelgonic" or "round-heaping" source. It
means, kamen is related to zemlja, zemlja to heaven, heaven to nebula,
nebula to himmel, himmel to cumulus, cumulus to globus, globus to
glava (človek to homo) and selo, selo to habitat, habitat to hamlet,
hamlet to home, home to dome, dome to dim, dim to dimnjak, dimnjak to
chimney etc.
DV |
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Harlan Messinger
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Vamos a hablar claro |
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Dušan Vukotić wrote:
[quote]On Jul 30, 10:28 pm, Harlan Messinger
hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Duðan Vukotiã wrote:
On Jul 30, 5:51 pm, António Marques <m...@sapo.pt> wrote:
Harlan Messinger wrote:
Duðan Vukotiã wrote:
That Spanish humo and Latin fumus are undisputable related to Slavic
dim (smoke) speaks the English word chimney (Sp. chimenea, Serb.
dimnjak; OHG cheminâta).
Are you going to try to *force* us to go off on this tangent again?
Just what fumus has to do with chimney is the part that escapes me.
I don>t thing that this guy, Antonio, has ever read any serious
linguistic literature. If he had read just the basic books about the
history of language development, he wouldn>t have asked such a naive
question. Maybe the Manx chymlee can help him here, or Irish
seimileur, simne (chimney; cf. Serb. dimljenje fumigation, dimnjak
chimney)? It seems he is unable to grasp that chimney is related to
fumus (Slavic dim; dimnjak <= chimney).
Since "chymlee", "seimileur", and "simne" don>t look any more like
"fumus" than "chimney" does, and since you have provided no support for
an etymological connection between any of them and "dimnjak", I>m
curious in what way you think you>ve answered Antonio>s question. If
you>re so attuned to the serious linguistic literature, then perhaps you
can indicate *where* in the serious linguistic literature this
connection is demonstrated. Or is this just one more instance of you
using the phrase "unable to grasp" to mean "not believing it just
because I say so"?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
In Serbia, when one couns the number of households of a settlement one
counts the number od chimneys; i.e. the fraze "how many chimneys (a
certain place have)" is used instead of "how many housholds".
[/quote]
Wow, that is just *so* relevant. (Not.)
[quote]As I
already told, chimney is "dimnjak" in Serbian, and that word is
clearly related to the other Serbian words as domaćin (master, host,
lord), domaćinstvo (household) and dom (home).
[/quote]
No, it is not *clearly* related. Do you have evidence or is this because
you say so?
[quote]
I think you know that Russian комната (room) is the cognate of the
Latin word caminus (forge, stove).
[/quote]
Perhaps, but do you have evidence, or is it just because you say so?
[quote]In fact, Russian "komnata" is
probably a loan word from MHG kemenate (room with a fireplace; MLHG
chemināta). Now compare Slavic dim (smoke) and dom (home), dimnjak
(chimney) and domaćinstvo (household) and you will probably be able to
see that Latin caminus is the word which has been derived from the
same source as home, humus, fumus, dominus etc.
[/quote]
All I see is you claiming it to be so. Evidence?
[quote]It is interesting to mention that the Serbo-Slavic kamen (stone) is
also coming from the "gonbelgonic" or "round-heaping" source.
[/quote]
And now we are squarely back into Fantasyland.
[quote]It
means, kamen is related to zemlja, zemlja to heaven, heaven to nebula,
nebula to himmel, himmel to cumulus, cumulus to globus, globus to
glava (človek to homo) and selo, selo to habitat, habitat to hamlet,
hamlet to home, home to dome, dome to dim, dim to dimnjak, dimnjak to
chimney etc.
[/quote]
I note a total failure on your part to provide evidence for any of this. |
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Duan Vukoti
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Vamos a hablar claro |
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On Jul 31, 12:19 pm, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
[quote]Dušan Vukotić wrote:
On Jul 30, 10:28 pm, Harlan Messinger
hmessinger.removet...@comcast.net> wrote:
Duðan Vukotiã wrote:
On Jul 30, 5:51 pm, António Marques <m...@sapo.pt> wrote:
Harlan Messinger wrote:
Duðan Vukotiã wrote:
That Spanish humo and Latin fumus are undisputable related to Slavic
dim (smoke) speaks the English word chimney (Sp. chimenea, Serb.
dimnjak; OHG cheminâta).
Are you going to try to *force* us to go off on this tangent again?
Just what fumus has to do with chimney is the part that escapes me.
I don>t thing that this guy, Antonio, has ever read any serious
linguistic literature. If he had read just the basic books about the
history of language development, he wouldn>t have asked such a naive
question. Maybe the Manx chymlee can help him here, or Irish
seimileur, simne (chimney; cf. Serb. dimljenje fumigation, dimnjak
chimney)? It seems he is unable to grasp that chimney is related to
fumus (Slavic dim; dimnjak <= chimney).
Since "chymlee", "seimileur", and "simne" don>t look any more like
"fumus" than "chimney" does, and since you have provided no support for
an etymological connection between any of them and "dimnjak", I>m
curious in what way you think you>ve answered Antonio>s question. If
you>re so attuned to the serious linguistic literature, then perhaps you
can indicate *where* in the serious linguistic literature this
connection is demonstrated. Or is this just one more instance of you
using the phrase "unable to grasp" to mean "not believing it just
because I say so"?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
In Serbia, when one couns the number of households of a settlement one
counts the number od chimneys; i.e. the fraze "how many chimneys (a
certain place have)" is used instead of "how many housholds".
Wow, that is just *so* relevant. (Not.)
> As I
already told, chimney is "dimnjak" in Serbian, and that word is
clearly related to the other Serbian words as domaćin (master, host,
lord), domaćinstvo (household) and dom (home).
No, it is not *clearly* related. Do you have evidence or is this because
you say so?
I think you know that Russian комната (room) is the cognate of the
Latin word caminus (forge, stove).
Perhaps, but do you have evidence, or is it just because you say so?
In fact, Russian "komnata" is
probably a loan word from MHG kemenate (room with a fireplace; MLHG
chemināta). Now compare Slavic dim (smoke) and dom (home), dimnjak
(chimney) and domaćinstvo (household) and you will probably be able to
see that Latin caminus is the word which has been derived from the
same source as home, humus, fumus, dominus etc.
Evidence?[/quote]
In a form of regular sound relations? Do not be silly? There is a
great number of similar, unpredicted sound changes. Is English
"change" related to Lat. cambio, cambire (exchange). If it is, it
means that change is also related to Serb. zamena (Russ. замена). What
about the word combat? As for me, the things are absolutely clear: all
these words are derived from the Gon-Bel-Gon basis; i.e. from Latin
compello (drive together; Serb. kobeljati to roll about, hobble), in
the initial instance these words stemmed from nebula (Serbo-Slavic
oblak cloud).
Of course, I know it is too hard for you to understand exactly what I
am talking about, because your reasoning is burdened with a great
number of learned "rules" and conditional reflexes ("условный
рефлекс").
DV
[quote]It is interesting to mention that the Serbo-Slavic kamen (stone) is
also coming from the "gonbelgonic" or "round-heaping" source.
And now we are squarely back into Fantasyland.
It
means, kamen is related to zemlja, zemlja to heaven, heaven to nebula,
nebula to himmel, himmel to cumulus, cumulus to globus, globus to
glava (človek to homo) and selo, selo to habitat, habitat to hamlet,
hamlet to home, home to dome, dome to dim, dim to dimnjak, dimnjak to
chimney etc.
I note a total failure on your part to provide evidence for any of this.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -[/quote] |
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