| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Helmut Richter
Guest
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:34 am Post subject: Re: result of an action: adjective or adverb? |
 |
|
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, Nathan Sanders wrote:
[quote]I think Helmut might be asking about what syntacticians call
resultatives. For shave, it would be something like "shave your face
smooth", in parallel to "paint the wall red".
I agree that non-resultative "shave smooth", without an overt direct
object, would be ungrammatical in standard English (though I freely
use adjectives as adverbs, so it>s fine for me).
[/quote]
This is an important observation. In German as well, it does not work
without a direct object in the active voice, or a subject in the passive
voice. That could be a hint that "smooth" behaves a bit more like an
adjective commenting a noun or pronoun than as an adverb commenting a
verb.
In German, a passive-voice sentence needs no subject. It has a subject
when the corresponding active-voice sentence had a direct (accusative)
object, which is not necessary. In this example, however, the subject is
necessary:
Man fährt schnell. -- People are driving fast.
Es wird schnell gefahren. -- People are driving fast. (pass.)
Er ist glattrasiert. -- He is smooth-shaven. (status)
Er wird glattrasiert. -- He is being shaved smooth.
*Es wird glattrasiert. -- People are shaving smooth. (pass.)
Note the ungrammaticality of the last German sentence. (I do not omment on
the English ones although I wonder which ones are acceptable or can be
repaired.)
As to "glattrasiert" vs. "glatt rasiert": they are now *both* accepted as
correct spelling. A clear adverb like "schnell" in the first sentence is
written as a separate word which is logical as it can appear anywhere in
the sentence whereas "glatt" has a fixed position at the end of the clause
(before "rasieren" if that is not inflected, as is here the case; at the
very end of the clause if "rasieren" is inflected and thus in the second
position).
--
Helmut Richter |
|
| |
|
 Back to top |
mb
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: Re: result of an action: adjective or adverb? |
|
|
On Jul 30, 2:13 am, "aslan" <aslanski2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]"mb" <azyth...@gmail.com>, iletisinde sunu yazdi,news:1177e146-6b52-49bf-a34b-6261981b7efe@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 29, 2:39 am, "aslan" <aslanski2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Examples:
iyi = good or well
HIZLI = fast
çabuk = fast
HIZLI araba = fast car
*çabuk araba = impossible construction, çabuk only usable with a verb
HIZLI sürmek = to drive fast
çabuk sürmek = to drive fast
***
I don>t understand your point. You mean HIZLI doesn>t mean fast or are you
trying to show that my example is not good or correct?
The point is related, as said, to your response to Richter>s
statement. This example illustrates the fact that there is no full
confluence of adjective and adverb in Turkish.
***
I was talking about adjectives being used as adverbs also. Çabuk is a Farsi
loan and is used as an adverb mostly, it has limited usage as an adjective
(AFAIK çabuk çorba = instant soup).
You should give an adjective example
that cannot be used as an adverb instead.
[/quote]
No, I "should" not. Obviously there is no full merging of the two
categories. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
aslan
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: result of an action: adjective or adverb? |
|
|
"mb" <azythos2@gmail.com>, iletisinde sunu yazdi,
news:1177e146-6b52-49bf-a34b-6261981b7efe@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 29, 2:39 am, "aslan" <aslanski2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]Examples:
iyi = good or well
HIZLI = fast
çabuk = fast
HIZLI araba = fast car
*çabuk araba = impossible construction, çabuk only usable with a verb
HIZLI sürmek = to drive fast
çabuk sürmek = to drive fast
***
I don>t understand your point. You mean HIZLI doesn>t mean fast or are you
trying to show that my example is not good or correct?
[/quote]
The point is related, as said, to your response to Richter>s
statement. This example illustrates the fact that there is no full
confluence of adjective and adverb in Turkish.
***
I was talking about adjectives being used as adverbs also. Çabuk is a Farsi
loan and is used as an adverb mostly, it has limited usage as an adjective
(AFAIK çabuk çorba = instant soup). You should give an adjective example
that cannot be used as an adverb instead. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: result of an action: adjective or adverb? |
|
|
On Jul 29, 3:42 am, Trond Engen <trond...@engen.priv.no> wrote:
[quote]Hei.
Bart Mathias skreiv:
ranjit_math...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Jul 28, 10:57 am, Helmut Richter <hh...@web.de> wrote:
My own language does not make a strict distinction between adjectives
and adverbs;
Mine does, but does English?
Malayalam "I happily be" (literal translation) has to be reworded as
"I am happy" in a translation to English.
Is "I am happy" short for "I am a happy person"? If not, why is an
adjective (rather than an adverb) used with the verb "am"? In
contrast, when the verb is "run", one doesn>t say "I run happy"; one
says "I run happily".
Might depend on who "one" is. I can imagine myself running happy.
As for the "am" case, since I have usually restricted my public
appearances as a "linguist" to Japanese (which might match Malayalam
in this case), I>ve been able to handle that privately by classifying
"happy" in "I am happy" as the verbal, and "am" as an auxiliary. (Cf.
near-English "Me happy.")
My thought was that the malayalam, and now the Japanese, verb is felt to
be less void of semantic content (or that it has been until recently).
Thus something like "I exist happily".
[/quote]
.... except that there>s a different word for exist although that word
is also used as a verbal auxiliary like the English "have".
eg. [sAdj@ta un.d.Ajirunnu] = "there had been a possibility" where
[un.d.*] is had and [iru*] is been.
[quote]I don>t have Routledge>s "The
Celtic languages" with me, so I can>t check the details, but I remember
reading just a few days ago that in cases where the existencial form of
"to be", rather than the semantically void copula, is used with a
predicate, which is a trend in the current language, there>s a tendency
to add a prefix to the adjective identical to the adverbial prefix.[/quote] |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Dan McGrath
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: result of an action: adjective or adverb? |
|
|
On Jul 28, 2:21 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
[quote]I believe Helmut was using therareform "fast" as in "the barnacles
stick fast to the hull of the ship." As the confusion in the responses
[/quote]
Why did you say "rare"?
--
Daniel G. McGrath
Binghamton, New York |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Peter T. Daniels
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: result of an action: adjective or adverb? |
|
|
On Jul 31, 10:12 am, Dan McGrath <dmcg6...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 28, 2:21 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
I believe Helmut was using therareform "fast" as in "the barnacles
stick fast to the hull of the ship." As the confusion in the responses
Why did you say "rare"?
[/quote]
Because it doesn>t occur very often, by comparison with the 'quick'
meaning of "fast."
Why did you ask? |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Larry Swain
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: result of an action: adjective or adverb? |
|
|
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
[quote]On Jul 28, 12:33 pm, Larry Swain <gi...@poetic.com> wrote:
Helmut Richter wrote:
My own language does not make a strict distinction between adjectives
and adverbs; so I have a question of whether the result of an action
appears as adjective or adverb. Examples:
"shave smooth(ly)", ie. shave so that the result is smooth,
"tighten fast(ly)", ie. tighten so that the result is fast,
"paint red(ly)", ie. paint so that the result is red.
Neither, the result of an action is a noun. In your examples:
to shave smoothly--adverb, you are describing HOW to shave; in everyday
speech someone may say "I shave smooth", but the adjective form is
simply acting as an adverb there, and is grammatically incorrect though
meaning is conveyed. Contrast "a smooth shave" and "a smoothly shave";
or a smooth shave vs. a shave smoothly done.
The skillful barber shaved the customer>s cheek as smooth as a baby>s
bottom.
The skillful barber shaved the customer>s cheek as smoothly as the
skilled carpenter planed the mahogany board.
to tighten fast-- the form "fast" may operate as an adjective or an
adverb; here as an adverb since it describes HOW the tightening is done
(coompare the adjective quick with the adverbial form quickly. Fast
Eddy, Eddy is fast, Eddy runs fast vs. Quick Eddy, Eddy is quick, Eddy
runs QUICKLY)
I believe Helmut was using the rare form "fast" as in "the barnacles
stick fast to the hull of the ship." As the confusion in the responses
has shown, this word is scarcely present in the consciousness of
English-speakers, and doubtless reflects the German cognate _fest_.
[/quote]
I don>t find that form to be rare, nor in use with the verb "tighten",
at least in English. Nonetheless, the same observations would pertain:
the form is used for both adjective and adverb. In either case, its the
same word. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
