Science and Technology news... :: View topic - American Slice of Petroleum Pie In 15 Years

Bret Cahill · Guest

[quote]That>s the point of the trolly wire. ï¿½The size of the battery can be
reduced by 1 - 2 orders of magnitude because, unlike an EV or plug in,
the tractor charges up every 6 - 10 minutes, after each pass.

Bret, if the tractor goes (what was it?) 1 mph or so, and it needs 10 minutes for one pass (5 min each way), then the field is no
wider than 440 feet.
Is that a reasonable assumption ?

If so, why not just use a high-voltage extension cable ?

When steam traction engines were in use, the plows were sometimes
pulled between two stationary engines with a winch in Britain.
The considerable weight of the traction engines would often mire
down in some of the soils there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_engine#Ploughing_engine
[/quote]
What about that Brit who beat the Wright Bros into the air with a
steam powered airplane?

Bret Cahill

B Richardson · Guest

On 2008-07-25, Rob Dekker <rob@verific.com> wrote:
[quote]
"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message news:58cfec07-a606-4c22-87f2-93be5337296c@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com...

That>s the point of the trolly wire. The size of the battery can be
reduced by 1 - 2 orders of magnitude because, unlike an EV or plug in,
the tractor charges up every 6 - 10 minutes, after each pass.

Bret, if the tractor goes (what was it?) 1 mph or so, and it needs 10 minutes for one pass (5 min each way), then the field is no
wider than 440 feet.
Is that a reasonable assumption ?

If so, why not just use a high-voltage extension cable ?
[/quote]
When steam traction engines were in use, the plows were sometimes
pulled between two stationary engines with a winch in Britain.
The considerable weight of the traction engines would often mire
down in some of the soils there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_engine#Ploughing_engine

[quote]
Actually, a 10kV line can be miles long without too many losses (for the 300 kW that you need).

Rob

[/quote]

Frank Ketchum · Guest

<BretCahill@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:c3f1f4ca-b8e6-4ed8-8d0f-7046657904f7@h17g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
[quote]
In 2 years, with the price of hydrocarbon fuel spiraling by 30% a
year, that cost will be $150,000/yr.

In six years the cost of the fuel will be half a million dollars.

[/quote]
Ignoring the other glaring errors in your post and concentrating only on
this part, you are projecting the cost of hydrocarbon fuel to continue to
spiral up and at the same rate.

A few questions for you:

1) How many oil future contracts do you own? Surely if you believe what you
post here you must spend every spare penny you own in the crude futures
market buying up all that you can.

2) Where is your calculation on what the price of electricity will be when
everything switches over as you advocate? I haven>t seen anyone address the
fact that when the demand for electricity far outweighs the supply then it>s
price will skyrocket much much faster than hydrocarbon fuels.

3) If we are to power everything with electricity as you suggest here and
elsewhere, how will the power be generated? Do you advocate building more
fossil fuel power plants or do you advocate nuclear plants? Or do you have
some untried, unproven type of power?

Frank

[quote]And that>s just for one field.

Maybe if we have massive truck and bus conversion to natural gas --
include farm tractors in Pickens plan -- the price will "only" be
$350,000/field in 6 years.

The battery tractor would be cheaper even if grid power tripled and
even if you went to your overpriced Apple Inc. store and bought the
batteries one by one and wired them together one by one yourself.

Now, if you don>t believe laptop batteries exist, please go to alt.
conspiracy and post there.

Bret Cahill

[/quote]

Guest

On Jul 26, 4:31 pm, knews4u2c...@yahoo.com wrote:
[quote]JW will be a guest on Jeff Rense>s talk show Tuesday July 29th at 7pm
PST.
That>s 8pm MST.
9pm CST
10PM EST

He will be discussing his 13 years association with Stanley A. Meyer
the inventor of the patented Water Fuel Cell(R) technology and other
energy producing devices.

Live link.http://rense.com/general57/notice.htm[/quote]

hhc314@yahoo.com · Guest

On Jul 26, 11:50 pm, knews4u2c...@yahoo.com wrote:
[quote]On Jul 26, 4:31 pm, knews4u2c...@yahoo.com wrote:

JW will be a guest on Jeff Rense>s talk show Tuesday July 29th at 7pm
PST.
That>s 8pm MST.
9pm CST
10PM EST

He will be discussing his 13 years association with Stanley A. Meyer
the inventor of the patented Water Fuel Cell(R) technology and other
energy producing devices.

Live link.http://rense.com/general57/notice.htm- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
JW, gimme a break here. Who the hell is Jeff Rense, and on what major
networks is his show carried, and when?

JW, hate to burst you bubble, but realize that the greater part of the
scientific community has never heard of the guy Rense or you, not that
it matters.

JW, have fun with this guy. Why not suggest to him that Stans body be
exhumed, and actually have some well know forensic pathologist
actually determine the precise cause of his death.

Harry C,

habshi · Guest

Why not build funnels to channel the wind as in China below?

excerpt

He installed fins on cooling coils inside the freezer to increase
efficiency and moved the condenser to the top of the building, where
natural wind flow helped cool it. Within a year, he>d cut energy
consumption by 30 percent.

Vagadia says the faulty blades have affected Suzlon>s reputation and
the company is working with customers to limit the damage. Suzlon has
set aside $139 million to compensate customers for the cracked blades
and now ships a stiffer product called V3, made of fiber-reinforced
plastic, that hasn>t broken.

Offshore Wind Farms

Projects worth $120 billion are stalled partly because of a shortage
of construction ships and the soaring cost of steel used in the
turbines. Repower>s 5-megawatt turbine stands on a tower about 90
meters tall, holds blades that are 61.5 meters long and can only be
serviced using a helicopter.

Material costs have driven up turbine prices about 20 percent since
about July 2007.

In the U.S., public opposition to offshore wind farms that may
obstruct panoramic views is such a big obstacle that none have been
built. The Cape Wind project in Nantucket Sound off the coast of
Massachusetts has been stymied by lawsuits.
....
the vast natural wind tunnel that is Dabancheng, the gales that roar
between the snow-capped mountain ridges get so strong that trains have
been gusted off railway tracks and lorries overturned.

Such is the ferocity of the elements that police sometimes have to
stop the traffic that passes through this arid, six-mile-wide plain on
what was once part of the Silk Road. That used to be bad for business
in Xinjiang, the most westerly region of China, which formerly
depended on the trade route between central Asia and the densely
populated cities in the far east.

Today, however, the gales themselves have become big business in
Dabancheng. The area is home to one of Asia>s biggest wind farms and a
pioneer in a Chinese industry that is forecast to lead the world by
the end of next year.

From the road, 118 giant turbines are visible miles before you reach
them. Tourists stop for pictures, hair blowing as they pose near the
whirring towers.

At the end of last year, China had 6 gigawatts of installed wind power
generating capacity, covering 202 projects. Another 445 sites have
been targeted for development in the near future - according to data
from Azure International, a consultancy in Beijing.

We went inside one of the taller towers to a small room with computers
controlling the direction of the 68-metre-high turbine. The sound of
the whirring blades vibrated through the enclosed chamber as Li
pointed to the readings: Wind speed 10.4km per hour (6.4mph), power
generation 1,000 kilowatts.

"This is the future in China," said Li. "Everyone is opting for big
turbines. It is more economic to have one 1,500 kw turbine than two
750kw turbines and the maintenance costs are lower."

But even this will soon be trumped. At Jiuquan in Gansu province, the
ground has been broken for what could one day be the world>s biggest
wind farm.

Even the first phase - to be completed by 2010 - will add 3.8
gigawatts, more than the wind generating capacity of the entire
country at the end of 2006. When the project is finished, it will be
almost three times bigger and linked up to a "wind energy corridor"
through Gansu which will be connected to an expanded national grid.

In addition to the current 6 gigawatts of generating capacity, Azure
estimates that a staggering 130 gigawatts is in the pipeline in China.

Established turbine manufacturers continue to ramp up production even
as new entrants try to squeeze their way into the market. If all of
their plans are added together, China>s new production capacity could
surge to 11 gigawatts this year - almost three times the amount
installed last year.

This year, the big five utilities are bleeding money because coal
costs have been steadily rising. They cannot pass costs on to their
customers because of government regulation of power prices.

Even so, wind energy produces a kilowatt-hour of electricity at about
twice the cost of a Chinese coal-fired power plant. Even with the
recent price rises, coal remains king in China. To meet the demands of
the fast growing economy, power plants and factories burn 2bn tonnes
of coal each year, about a third of the world>s total.

This is why China has overtaken the US as the biggest emitter of
greenhouse gases and it is unlikely to fall back to second place for
decades.

habshi · Guest

On another note , there is apparently enough energy in the
rocks 4km down for us to extract for all our needs and its starting in
Iceland.
On one programme Tommorows world , one man heated his swimming pool
by putting iron bars in concrete of the pool floor . During the day
the iron absorbed the heat from above and radiated it back through the
concrete to the water above so that it warmed a lot faster the next
day. Cant we use this concrete idea to heat our houses?

BradGuth · Guest

On Jul 13, 12:42 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
<ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
[quote]In sci.physics, Uncle Al
Uncle...@hate.spam.net
wrote
on Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:18:37 -0700
487949DD.B7149...@hate.spam.net>:

BradGuth wrote:

On Jun 23, 3:51 pm, hab...@anony.com (habshi) wrote:
The best way is to use electriticy to split water and store
the hydrogen in metal hydrides and ship the oxygen to those who smoke
and suffer from lung disease.
[snip crap]

The aluminum hydrides are certainly a good idea,
[snip creato crap]

Hey fucking stooopid - have you ever worked with LiH, alane, AlH4(-),
BH4(-) or HYSTOR alloys? No - you>re just fucking stoooopid.

I do believe he>s worked with pizza and beer, though. ;-)
Not sure why he couldn>t work with more sophisticated
meals, as I>ve seen freeze-dried meals allegedly for NASA
astronauts (possibly surplus from a manufacturing run for
the Space Shuttle astronauts, though freeze-drying>s been
around for decades).

In any event, there>s already a prototype of a
home-baseable water electrolyzer, and another prototype
of a home-baseable fermentation tank for the production
of non-human-consumable alcohol suitable for fuel; both
have been in the news recently but I>d have to dig for
the specifics.

Admittedly, burning coal to make hydrogen with electricity
as an intermediary doesn>t make a lot of sense to me.
[/quote]
It does if you>re ENRON or some derivative (aka spin-off) of such,
whereas consuming as much fossil fuel and as fast as possible is their
ultimate goal on behalf of those nuclear energy freaks in charge of
our New World Order, that don>t even want to consider using thorium.

BTW, where>s our resident of dirt cheap and supposedly green hydrogen
wizard of Oz, William Mook?

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

BradGuth · Guest

On Jul 27, 3:48 am, hab...@anony.com (habshi) wrote:
[quote]On another note , there is apparently enough energy in the
rocks 4km down for us to extract for all our needs and its starting in
Iceland.
On one programme Tommorows world , one man heated his swimming pool
by putting iron bars in concrete of the pool floor . During the day
the iron absorbed the heat from above and radiated it back through the
concrete to the water above so that it warmed a lot faster the next
day. Cant we use this concrete idea to heat our houses?
[/quote]
Our perpetual geothermal energy as getting pumped up continually by
the 2e20 N/sec of our Selene/moon tidal flexing is by far the ultimate
motherload of potentially clean energy. Of course by then we>ll be
pleased as punch at paying $10/gallon of synfuel and counting our
lucky stars if paying only $1/kwhr, no matters what.

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

BradGuth · Guest

Mass produced wind turbines and all that>s necessary is relatively
dirt cheap at not 10% the all-inclusive and birth-to-grave cost of
modern nuclear energy, and perhaps still a good forth the cost of
going with the likes of those failsafe thorium reactors.

If folks can>t independently think inside the box, then by all means
forget about thinking the least bit outside the box.

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

habshi wrote:
[quote]Why not build funnels to channel the wind as in China below?

excerpt

He installed fins on cooling coils inside the freezer to increase
efficiency and moved the condenser to the top of the building, where
natural wind flow helped cool it. Within a year, he>d cut energy
consumption by 30 percent.

Vagadia says the faulty blades have affected Suzlon>s reputation and
the company is working with customers to limit the damage. Suzlon has
set aside $139 million to compensate customers for the cracked blades
and now ships a stiffer product called V3, made of fiber-reinforced
plastic, that hasn>t broken.

Offshore Wind Farms

Projects worth $120 billion are stalled partly because of a shortage
of construction ships and the soaring cost of steel used in the
turbines. Repower>s 5-megawatt turbine stands on a tower about 90
meters tall, holds blades that are 61.5 meters long and can only be
serviced using a helicopter.

Material costs have driven up turbine prices about 20 percent since
about July 2007.

In the U.S., public opposition to offshore wind farms that may
obstruct panoramic views is such a big obstacle that none have been
built. The Cape Wind project in Nantucket Sound off the coast of
Massachusetts has been stymied by lawsuits.
...
the vast natural wind tunnel that is Dabancheng, the gales that roar
between the snow-capped mountain ridges get so strong that trains have
been gusted off railway tracks and lorries overturned.

Such is the ferocity of the elements that police sometimes have to
stop the traffic that passes through this arid, six-mile-wide plain on
what was once part of the Silk Road. That used to be bad for business
in Xinjiang, the most westerly region of China, which formerly
depended on the trade route between central Asia and the densely
populated cities in the far east.

Today, however, the gales themselves have become big business in
Dabancheng. The area is home to one of Asia>s biggest wind farms and a
pioneer in a Chinese industry that is forecast to lead the world by
the end of next year.

From the road, 118 giant turbines are visible miles before you reach
them. Tourists stop for pictures, hair blowing as they pose near the
whirring towers.

At the end of last year, China had 6 gigawatts of installed wind power
generating capacity, covering 202 projects. Another 445 sites have
been targeted for development in the near future - according to data
from Azure International, a consultancy in Beijing.

We went inside one of the taller towers to a small room with computers
controlling the direction of the 68-metre-high turbine. The sound of
the whirring blades vibrated through the enclosed chamber as Li
pointed to the readings: Wind speed 10.4km per hour (6.4mph), power
generation 1,000 kilowatts.

"This is the future in China," said Li. "Everyone is opting for big
turbines. It is more economic to have one 1,500 kw turbine than two
750kw turbines and the maintenance costs are lower."

But even this will soon be trumped. At Jiuquan in Gansu province, the
ground has been broken for what could one day be the world>s biggest
wind farm.

Even the first phase - to be completed by 2010 - will add 3.8
gigawatts, more than the wind generating capacity of the entire
country at the end of 2006. When the project is finished, it will be
almost three times bigger and linked up to a "wind energy corridor"
through Gansu which will be connected to an expanded national grid.

In addition to the current 6 gigawatts of generating capacity, Azure
estimates that a staggering 130 gigawatts is in the pipeline in China.

Established turbine manufacturers continue to ramp up production even
as new entrants try to squeeze their way into the market. If all of
their plans are added together, China>s new production capacity could
surge to 11 gigawatts this year - almost three times the amount
installed last year.

This year, the big five utilities are bleeding money because coal
costs have been steadily rising. They cannot pass costs on to their
customers because of government regulation of power prices.

Even so, wind energy produces a kilowatt-hour of electricity at about
twice the cost of a Chinese coal-fired power plant. Even with the
recent price rises, coal remains king in China. To meet the demands of
the fast growing economy, power plants and factories burn 2bn tonnes
of coal each year, about a third of the world>s total.

This is why China has overtaken the US as the biggest emitter of
greenhouse gases and it is unlikely to fall back to second place for
decades.[/quote]

Guest · Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Very cheap solar power

In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.com> wrote:
[quote]On another note , there is apparently enough energy in the
rocks 4km down for us to extract for all our needs and its starting in
Iceland.
[/quote]
It isn>t 4 km down in Iceland, which is why it is usefull there.

If you think this is such a great idea, why don>t you grab a shovel
and start digging the 4 km hole?

[quote]On one programme Tommorows world , one man heated his swimming pool
by putting iron bars in concrete of the pool floor . During the day
the iron absorbed the heat from above and radiated it back through the
concrete to the water above so that it warmed a lot faster the next
day. Cant we use this concrete idea to heat our houses?
[/quote]
Iron bars in concrete are called rebar and are already in all
structural concrete.

You are still a babbling idiot.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

The Ghost In The Machine · Guest

In sci.physics, habshi
<habshi@anony.com>
wrote
on Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:48:03 GMT
<488c51c4.12500859@news.clara.net>:
[quote] On another note , there is apparently enough energy in the
rocks 4km down for us to extract for all our needs and its starting in
Iceland.
[/quote]
And the form of that energy is ... ?

There>s enough energy in a US nickel (weighing 5 grams)
to satisfy the entire world>s current energy needs for
about 3.5 minutes, by completely destroying the nickel.
However, such a scheme is currently rather impractical,
and it is far from clear whether such is ever possible.

[quote]On one programme Tommorows world , one man heated his swimming pool
by putting iron bars in concrete of the pool floor . During the day
the iron absorbed the heat from above and radiated it back through the
concrete to the water above so that it warmed a lot faster the next
day. Cant we use this concrete idea to heat our houses?
[/quote]
And what does one do when one wishes to go swimming in a
heated pool on a cloudy or rainy day?

Also, the angle is of importance; at 40 degrees latitude
(either north or south), the Sun is 63.5 degrees from the
horizon at high summer at noontime, but only 16.5 degrees
at noontime at winter. There are also issues regarding
the length of time it is out.

(This turns out to have far more relevance than the
variance of the Earth>s orbit from 147.6 million km to
152.6 million km. In fact, we>re farthest from the Sun
sometime in Northern summer, yet we still get very warm...)

--
#191, ewill3@earthlink.net
Windows Vista. Now in nine exciting editions. Try them all!
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Guest

On Jul 26, 4:31 pm, knews4u2c...@yahoo.com wrote:
[quote]JW will be a guest on Jeff Rense>s talk show Tuesday July 29th at 7pm
PST.
That>s 8pm MST.
9pm CST
10PM EST

He will be discussing his 13 years association with Stanley A. Meyer
the inventor of the patented Water Fuel Cell(R) technology and other
energy producing devices.

Live link.http://rense.com/general57/notice.htm[/quote]

Guest

In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.com> wrote:
[quote]Why not build funnels to channel the wind as in China below?
[/quote]
No one built "funnels", you idiot, those are mountain passes.

Read this about the wonders of wind power:

"Thousands of homeowners may see the value of their properties plummet
after a court ruled that living near a wind farm decreases house prices."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/07/26/eawind126.xml

Build a wind farm, make your home worthless.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

zzbunker@netscape.net · Guest

On Jul 28, 1:45 pm, j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
[quote]In sci.physics habshi <hab...@anony.com> wrote:

Why not build funnels to channel the wind as in China below?

No one built "funnels", you idiot, those are mountain passes.

Read this about the wonders of wind power:

"Thousands of homeowners may see the value of their properties plummet
after a court ruled that living near a wind farm decreases house prices."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/07/26/eaw....

Build a wind farm, make your home worthless.
[/quote]
But the way idiot courts rule about property value is why
cruise missiles, computers, solar energy arrays, and robots were
invented,
So it propably only makes a difference to idiots stupid enough
to live in New York anyway.

[quote]
--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.[/quote]


www.GetXFactor.com Leading Technology, Science, Agriculture News and information	Part of the Identityscape.com network... getxfactor.com jmoodmusic.com smartbusinesschoices.com mintdepot.com lowfaresalways.com evangelicalview.com shoppingpodder.com soproudlywehail.com webnews.ws currenthumor.com

Science and Technology news... Forum Index -> Energy forum	Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 ... , 37, 38, 39 Next
Page 38 of 39