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Jim Thompson
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 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: Spice Model for PMT |
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Anyone have a Spice model for a photo-multiplier TUBE ??
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC>s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: Re: Spice Model for PMT |
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On Jul 18, 12:51爌m, John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:
[quote]Jim Thompson wrote:
Just photon->anode current
Not a spice model, but perhaps, some data that will help you
build one. 燗 few years ago, I came up with a functional fit
between total supply voltage and gain for an Hamamatsu R928
stage side view multiplier:http://sales.hamamatsu.com/assets/pdf/parts_R/R928.pdf
The function I pulled out of my but and fit to the data
sheet curve is:
gain(a,b,v,N)=(a*(v/(N+1))^b)^N
Where N=9 successive internal gain stages,
a=0.185, b=0.755, and
v = the total voltage applied across the voltage divider
socket type E717-21, shown at the end of the above data sheet.
Add propagation delay and capacitance and I think you are
close, if this is the sort of PMT.
[/quote]
Don>t try and pull too much current out of the tube though. There are
at least eight different sources of photomultiplier non-linearity,
starting with space charge in the photo-cathode to first dynode space.
Space charge between the last two dynodes (which are usually on either
side of the anode) and the anode usually limits the anode current to
less than 100mA (unless you use fairly high voltages across the last
few dynodes).
There was a rather dire Spice simulation of a PMT in IEEE Trans.
Electron Devices vol.36 (9) 2005-2010 (Sept 1989) and my comment on it
was published in 1991."Comment on 'Computer aided simulation study of
photomultiplier tubes'", IEEE Transactions on Electron Devices, ED-38
679-680 (1991).
It lists a bunch of papers on photomultiplier non-linearity. The best
of them - by Sauerbrey - is in Applied Optics, but in German. I>ve got
a translation somewhere.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen |
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Phil Hobbs
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Spice Model for PMT |
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Jim Thompson wrote:
[quote]Anyone have a Spice model for a photo-multiplier TUBE ??
...Jim Thompson
[/quote]
Do you need all 14 pins modelled, or just the photon->anode current
response?
Even if it>s just the anode current, PMTs vary greatly in transit time,
transit time spread, afterpulses, and so on--you can get pulse widths of
500 ps to 50 ns from one primary photoelectron.
Cheers,
Phil Hobbs |
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Spehro Pefhany
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Spice Model for PMT |
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:58:26 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
[quote]
Anyone have a Spice model for a photo-multiplier TUBE ??
...Jim Thompson
[/quote]
www-boone.fnal.gov/publicpages/detector_tdr.ps.gz
Page 82 has some simple models.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it>s the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
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Jim Thompson
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Spice Model for PMT |
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:10:53 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
[quote]Jim Thompson wrote:
Anyone have a Spice model for a photo-multiplier TUBE ??
...Jim Thompson
Do you need all 14 pins modelled, or just the photon->anode current
response?
[/quote]
Just photon->anode current
[quote]
Even if it>s just the anode current, PMTs vary greatly in transit time,
transit time spread, afterpulses, and so on--you can get pulse widths of
500 ps to 50 ns from one primary photoelectron.
Cheers,
Phil Hobbs
[/quote]
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC>s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Liberalism is a persistent vegetative state |
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Jim Thompson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Spice Model for PMT |
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:13:44 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
[quote]On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:58:26 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
Anyone have a Spice model for a photo-multiplier TUBE ??
...Jim Thompson
www-boone.fnal.gov/publicpages/detector_tdr.ps.gz
Page 82 has some simple models.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
[/quote]
Thanks!
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC>s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Liberalism is a persistent vegetative state |
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John Popelish
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Spice Model for PMT |
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Jim Thompson wrote:
[quote]Just photon->anode current
[/quote]
Not a spice model, but perhaps, some data that will help you
build one. A few years ago, I came up with a functional fit
between total supply voltage and gain for an Hamamatsu R928
stage side view multiplier:
http://sales.hamamatsu.com/assets/pdf/parts_R/R928.pdf
The function I pulled out of my but and fit to the data
sheet curve is:
gain(a,b,v,N)=(a*(v/(N+1))^b)^N
Where N=9 successive internal gain stages,
a=0.185, b=0.755, and
v = the total voltage applied across the voltage divider
socket type E717-21, shown at the end of the above data sheet.
Add propagation delay and capacitance and I think you are
close, if this is the sort of PMT.
--
Regards,
John Popelish |
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Jim Thompson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Spice Model for PMT |
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:51:41 -0400, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:
[quote]Jim Thompson wrote:
Just photon->anode current
Not a spice model, but perhaps, some data that will help you
build one. A few years ago, I came up with a functional fit
between total supply voltage and gain for an Hamamatsu R928
stage side view multiplier:
http://sales.hamamatsu.com/assets/pdf/parts_R/R928.pdf
The function I pulled out of my but and fit to the data
sheet curve is:
gain(a,b,v,N)=(a*(v/(N+1))^b)^N
Where N=9 successive internal gain stages,
a=0.185, b=0.755, and
v = the total voltage applied across the voltage divider
socket type E717-21, shown at the end of the above data sheet.
Add propagation delay and capacitance and I think you are
close, if this is the sort of PMT.
[/quote]
Thanks!
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC>s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Liberalism is a persistent vegetative state |
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Jim Thompson
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Spice Model for PMT |
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On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:26:42 -0700 (PDT), bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:
[quote]On Jul 18, 12:51聽pm, John Popelish <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Just photon->anode current
Not a spice model, but perhaps, some data that will help you
build one. 聽A few years ago, I came up with a functional fit
between total supply voltage and gain for an Hamamatsu R928
stage side view multiplier:http://sales.hamamatsu.com/assets/pdf/parts_R/R928.pdf
The function I pulled out of my but and fit to the data
sheet curve is:
gain(a,b,v,N)=(a*(v/(N+1))^b)^N
Where N=9 successive internal gain stages,
a=0.185, b=0.755, and
v = the total voltage applied across the voltage divider
socket type E717-21, shown at the end of the above data sheet.
Add propagation delay and capacitance and I think you are
close, if this is the sort of PMT.
Don>t try and pull too much current out of the tube though. There are
at least eight different sources of photomultiplier non-linearity,
starting with space charge in the photo-cathode to first dynode space.
Space charge between the last two dynodes (which are usually on either
side of the anode) and the anode usually limits the anode current to
less than 100mA (unless you use fairly high voltages across the last
few dynodes).
There was a rather dire Spice simulation of a PMT in IEEE Trans.
Electron Devices vol.36 (9) 2005-2010 (Sept 1989) and my comment on it
was published in 1991."Comment on 'Computer aided simulation study of
photomultiplier tubes'", IEEE Transactions on Electron Devices, ED-38
679-680 (1991).
It lists a bunch of papers on photomultiplier non-linearity. The best
of them - by Sauerbrey - is in Applied Optics, but in German. I>ve got
a translation somewhere.
[/quote]
Thanks, Bill!
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC>s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Liberalism is a persistent vegetative state |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:54 am Post subject: Re: Spice Model for PMT |
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On 7月18日, 上午8时58分, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-Web-
Site.com> wrote:
[quote]Anyone have a Spice model for a photo-multiplier TUBE ??
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC>s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com| 1962 |
America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave[/quote] |
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