Science and Technology news... :: View topic - Meaning of a title of Stieg Larsson (swedish)

Sébastien de Mapias · Guest

Hi,
Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprängdes

The novel>s been entitled "La Reine dans le palais des courants
d>air" in French, and it really doesn>t sound like a faithful
translation...
(the queen in the palace of drafts)

Does it mean "the castle of air that ran" ? Is "sprängdes" a past form
of "springa" ?

Thanks.
SR

Thor Kottelin · Guest

"Sébastien de Mapias" <sglrigaud@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:969c0cfe-0eb6-40d6-88f0-7574b3acdd18@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

[quote]Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprängdes
[/quote]
Hi Sébastien,

"Luftslott", as an idiom, refers to an unfeasible product of imagination.
As an example, if I were planning to charge translation clients EUR 1 per
word, and therefore retire as a millionaire in ten years time, I would be
building myself luftslott (the term is often used in plural, even when
referring to a single concept).

"Sprängdes" is the passive preterit of "spränga", which means to blast, to
blow something up, as in causing to explode. Literally, "slottet som
sprängdes" == "the castle that was blown up".

I have not read the book in question. Doing so might perhaps reveal useful
context.

--
Thor Kottelin
http://www.anta.net/

Language services: http://www.anta.net/sw/translation.shtml

Edward Hennessey · Guest

Thor Kottelin wrote:
[quote]"Sébastien de Mapias" <sglrigaud@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:969c0cfe-0eb6-40d6-88f0-7574b3acdd18@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprängdes

Hi Sébastien,

"Luftslott", as an idiom, refers to an unfeasible product of
imagination. As an example, if I were planning to charge
translation clients EUR 1 per word, and therefore retire as a
millionaire in ten years time, I would be building myself luftslott
(the term is often used in plural, even when referring to a single
concept).
[/quote]
TK:

Very good. And "castle in the air" would be the English equivalent with the
footnote that the customary contextual phrase for that is "Building castles
in the air." "Pipe dream" would be a rough synonym, having the added
benefit
of the fact that the associated smoking clouds can be often fancifully
conceived as
resembling many things, castles included. Your comment below on
"sprängdes"
puts me exactly in mind of "billowing castles in the air".

Welcome and regards,

Edward Hennessey

[quote]
"Sprängdes" is the passive preterit of "spränga", which means to
blast, to blow something up, as in causing to explode. Literally,
"slottet som sprängdes" == "the castle that was blown up".

I have not read the book in question. Doing so might perhaps reveal
useful context.[/quote]

Edward Hennessey · Guest

Edward Hennessey wrote:
[quote]Thor Kottelin wrote:
"Sébastien de Mapias" <sglrigaud@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:969c0cfe-0eb6-40d6-88f0-7574b3acdd18@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprängdes

Hi Sébastien,

"Luftslott", as an idiom, refers to an unfeasible product of
imagination. As an example, if I were planning to charge
translation clients EUR 1 per word, and therefore retire as a
millionaire in ten years time, I would be building myself luftslott
(the term is often used in plural, even when referring to a single
concept).

TK:

Very good. And "castle in the air" would be the English equivalent
with the footnote that the customary contextual phrase for that is
"Building castles in the air." "Pipe dream" would be a rough
synonym, having the added benefit
of the fact that the associated smoking clouds can be often
fancifully conceived as
resembling many things, castles included. Your comment below on
"sprängdes"
puts me exactly in mind of "billowing castles in the air".

Welcome and regards,

Edward Hennessey
[/quote]
Cf. "Cloud Cuckoo Land" an idealistic and unrealistic proposition, notion
or state.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Tony Vella · Guest

"Edward Hennessey" <halozzyzxhaloMINUS123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:oeWdnQPfd8rjt-zVnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
[quote]Edward Hennessey wrote:
Thor Kottelin wrote:
"Sébastien de Mapias" <sglrigaud@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:969c0cfe-0eb6-40d6-88f0-7574b3acdd18@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprängdes

Hi Sébastien,

"Luftslott", as an idiom, refers to an unfeasible product of
imagination. As an example, if I were planning to charge
translation clients EUR 1 per word, and therefore retire as a
millionaire in ten years time, I would be building myself luftslott
(the term is often used in plural, even when referring to a single
concept).

TK:

Very good. And "castle in the air" would be the English equivalent
with the footnote that the customary contextual phrase for that is
"Building castles in the air." "Pipe dream" would be a rough
synonym, having the added benefit
of the fact that the associated smoking clouds can be often
fancifully conceived as
resembling many things, castles included. Your comment below on
"sprängdes"
puts me exactly in mind of "billowing castles in the air".

Welcome and regards,

Edward Hennessey

Cf. "Cloud Cuckoo Land" an idealistic and unrealistic proposition, notion
or state.
[/quote]
From what I understand, the English translation will not be available until
2010. Until final decisions are made, "Castles in the Sky" has been adopted
as the working title for the English version.
--
Tony Vella
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
http://amedialuz.shorturl.com/

Pierre Jelenc · Guest

Sébastien de Mapias <sglrigaud@gmail.com> writes:
[quote]Hi,
Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprängdes
[/quote]
L>idée de "luftslott" se traduit par "château en Espagne" en français.
Littéralement donc "Le château en Espagne qui a explosé".

Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc
The Gigometer www.gigometer.com
The NYC Beer Guide www.nycbeer.org

Sébastien de Mapias · Guest

The translation is *bad* in French, bad... Ugly. For ex. on page 24
you will find that some things (assumptions, I guess) "se sont
avérées
fausses"... Such an enormity is indescribable. Unacceptable.

[quote]From what I understand, the English translation will not be available until
2010. Until final decisions are made, "Castles in the Sky" has been adopted
as the working title for the English version.
--
Tony Vella
Ottawa, Ontario, Canadahttp://amedialuz.shorturl.com/[/quote]

Tony Vella · Guest

A number of years ago I found a special Peruvian stamp in my collection
which I believed had incorrect perforation. I thought that I had finally
got my pied-à-terre on place Pigalle and until authentification arrived from
our Philatelic Society I had already started mentally selecting furniture,
paint colours, etc. for my little apartment. Finally the letter came from
the Phil. Soc., unfortunately without a certificate of authentication, and
my wife, never at a loss for words, remarked: another shattered pipe-dream.
This was what the original "Luftslottet som sprängdes" brought to mind.
--
Tony Vella
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
http://amedialuz.shorturl.com/

"Sébastien de Mapias" <sglrigaud@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bed3e957-82c2-493c-be39-8ccaa77188e2@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
The translation is *bad* in French, bad... Ugly. For ex. on page 24
you will find that some things (assumptions, I guess) "se sont
avérées
fausses"... Such an enormity is indescribable. Unacceptable.

[quote]From what I understand, the English translation will not be available
until
2010. Until final decisions are made, "Castles in the Sky" has been
adopted
as the working title for the English version.
--
Tony Vella
Ottawa, Ontario, Canadahttp://amedialuz.shorturl.com/[/quote]

Edward Hennessey · Guest

Pierre Jelenc wrote:
[quote]Sébastien de Mapias <sglrigaud@gmail.com> writes:
Hi,
Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprängdes

L>idée de "luftslott" se traduit par "château en Espagne" en
français. Littéralement donc "Le château en Espagne qui a explosé".

Pierre
[/quote]
PJ: schl

"Castle in Spain" is, indeed, a rare phrase in English and the ancestral
one to
"castle in the air". This may derive from various sources on which either
research or
intelligent conjecture by parties in Spain or France may shed more light.
One possibility
is invidious, the French may have rightly or wrongly conceived that castles
were of
rare occurence in Spain. The other, more intriguing idea is that there the
phenomenon
of a fata morgana--or something similar--was observed by the French which
resembled
castles in the air over the Pyrenees appearing to be in Spain. Other
explanations are welcome.

It would be interesting to see if kindred phrases like luftshlösser or
schlösser im
Mond will be found in the German translation.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Lanarcam · Guest

Edward Hennessey wrote:
[quote]Pierre Jelenc wrote:
Sébastien de Mapias <sglrigaud@gmail.com> writes:
Hi,
Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprängdes
L>idée de "luftslott" se traduit par "château en Espagne" en
français. Littéralement donc "Le château en Espagne qui a explosé".

Pierre

PJ: schl

"Castle in Spain" is, indeed, a rare phrase in English and the ancestral
one to
"castle in the air". This may derive from various sources on which either
research or
intelligent conjecture by parties in Spain or France may shed more light.
One possibility
is invidious, the French may have rightly or wrongly conceived that castles
were of
rare occurence in Spain.
[/quote]
You are right. I did not know the origin before
searching the Web.

I will not translate everything, the text in French
is given below. "This very old expression (dating from
le Roman de la Rose 13th century) stems from the
fact that castles were very rare in the countryside
in Spain. The Maures could not find refuge in them.
"Les chateaux en Espagne" is the metaphore for
what is deemed unfeasible.

That translation was the best I could achieve.

"Cette expression très ancienne (datant du Roman de la
Rose - XIIIième siècle) est entrée dans le langage courant
au XVIème siècle. Pasquier, en 1531, explique que cette
expression prend sa source dans le fait qu>en Espagne,
on ne trouve aucun château dans les campagnes : les Maures
se trouvaient ainsi sans possibilité de se réfugier dans
une demeure assurant leur retraite en toute sécurité.
C>est ainsi que les "châteaux en Espagne" sont devenus
la métaphore de ce qui est jugé infaisable."

http://www.francparler.com/syntagme.php?id=124

[quote]The other, more intriguing idea is that there the
phenomenon
of a fata morgana--or something similar--was observed by the French which
resembled
castles in the air over the Pyrenees appearing to be in Spain. Other
explanations are welcome.

It would be interesting to see if kindred phrases like luftshlösser or
schlösser im
Mond will be found in the German translation.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

[/quote]

Dave Neve · Guest

On Jul 8, 1:28Â am, "Edward Hennessey"
<halozzyzxhaloMINUS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]Pierre Jelenc wrote:
Sï¿½bastien de Mapias Â <sglrig...@gmail.com> writes:
Hi,
Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprï¿½ngdes

L>idï¿½e de "luftslott" se traduit par "chï¿½teau en Espagne" en
franï¿½ais. Littï¿½ralement donc "Le chï¿½teau en Espagne qui a explosï¿½".

Pierre

PJ: Â schl

"Castle in Spain" is, indeed, a rare phrase in English and the ancestral
one to
"castle in the air". This may derive from various sources on which either
research or
intelligent conjecture by parties in Spain or France may shed more light.
One possibility
is invidious, the French may have rightly or wrongly conceived that castles
were of
rare occurence in Spain. The other, more intriguing idea is that there the
phenomenon
of a fata morgana--or something similar--was observed by the French which
resembled
castles in the air over the Pyrenees appearing to be in Spain. Other
explanations are welcome.

It would be interesting to see if kindred phrases like luftshlï¿½sser or
schlï¿½sser im
Mond will be found in the German translation.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey
[/quote]
Hello Edward

I have already translated this expression from Swedish to English and
I remember that I used the expression

"Pie in the sky"

It worked well in a dialogue but maybe isn>t suitable for the title of
a book.

But what I wanted to say was that it is always interesting to look for
the origins of an expression but that we can>t assume 100% percent
that it has a 'tangible' explanation.

Castles in the sky maybe but pie in the sky???

Regards

Dave Neve

Anneli Halme · Guest

On 10 Juli, 09:55, Dave Neve <neve.d...@neuf.fr> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 8, 1:28Â am, "Edward Â Hennessey"

halozzyzxhaloMINUS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Pierre Jelenc wrote:
Sï¿½bastien de Mapias Â <sglrig...@gmail.com> writes:
Hi,
Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprï¿½ngdes

L>idï¿½e de "luftslott" se traduit par "chï¿½teau en Espagne" en
franï¿½ais. Littï¿½ralement donc "Le chï¿½teau en Espagne qui a explosï¿½".

Pierre

PJ: Â schl

"Castle in Spain" is, indeed, a rare phrase in English and the ancestral
one to
"castle in the air". This may derive from various sources on which either
research or
intelligent conjecture by parties in Spain or France may shed more light.
One possibility
is invidious, the French may have rightly or wrongly conceived that castles
were of
rare occurence in Spain. The other, more intriguing idea is that there the
phenomenon
of a fata morgana--or something similar--was observed by the French which
resembled
castles in the air over the Pyrenees appearing to be in Spain. Other
explanations are welcome.

It would be interesting to see if kindred phrases like luftshlï¿½sser or
schlï¿½sser im
Mond will be found in the German translation.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Hello Edward

I have already translated this expression from Swedish to English and
I remember that I used the expression

"Pie in the sky"

It worked well in a dialogue but maybe isn>t suitable for the title of
a book.

But what I wanted to say was that it is always interesting to look for
the origins of an expression but that we can>t assume 100% percent
that it has a 'tangible' explanation.

Castles in the sky maybe but pie in the sky???

I have not read this book but Larsson was a socialist and in Sweden[/quote]
many of us get Joe HillÅ› " you get pie in the sky when you die" in
mind and "luftslott" means something of this world. Unrealistic plans
of many sorts.

Anneli

Edward Hennessey · Guest

On Jul 10, 12:55Â am, Dave Neve <neve.d...@neuf.fr> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 8, 1:28Â am, "Edward Â Hennessey"

halozzyzxhaloMINUS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Pierre Jelenc wrote:
Sï¿½bastien de Mapias Â <sglrig...@gmail.com> writes:
Hi,
Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprï¿½ngdes

L>idï¿½e de "luftslott" se traduit par "chï¿½teau en Espagne" en
franï¿½ais. Littï¿½ralement donc "Le chï¿½teau en Espagne qui a explosï¿½".

Pierre

PJ: Â schl

"Castle in Spain" is, indeed, a rare phrase in English and the ancestral
one to
"castle in the air". This may derive from various sources on which either
research or
intelligent conjecture by parties in Spain or France may shed more light.
One possibility
is invidious, the French may have rightly or wrongly conceived that castles
were of
rare occurence in Spain. The other, more intriguing idea is that there the
phenomenon
of a fata morgana--or something similar--was observed by the French which
resembled
castles in the air over the Pyrenees appearing to be in Spain. Other
explanations are welcome.

It would be interesting to see if kindred phrases like luftshlï¿½sser or
schlï¿½sser im
Mond will be found in the German translation.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Hello Edward

I have already translated this expression from Swedish to English and
I remember that I used the expression

"Pie in the sky"

It worked well in a dialogue but maybe isn>t suitable for the title of
a book.

But what I wanted to say was that it is always interesting to look for
the origins of an expression but that we can>t assume 100% percent
that it has a 'tangible' explanation.

Castles in the sky maybe but pie in the sky???

Regards

Dave Neve- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
DN:

Apologies for the belated reply but I>m away and reduced to posting
through
Google for awhile.

I see a difference between "castles in the sky" and "pie in the sky".
"Castles in the sky" always entails dreamy imagination.
"Pie in the sky" usually involves an unrealistic promise of some
future abundance (i.e.
pie) either in exchange for some suffering or varying levels of
commitment now.
When the restaurant owner agrees to Wimpy>s classical "I will gladly
pay you
Tuesday for a hamburger today", he has fallen for a "pie-in-the-sky"
line.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Edward Hennessey · Guest

On Jul 11, 8:26Â pm, Anneli Halme <Anneli.ha...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On 10 Juli, 09:55, Dave Neve <neve.d...@neuf.fr> wrote:

On Jul 8, 1:28Â am, "Edward Â Hennessey"

halozzyzxhaloMINUS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Pierre Jelenc wrote:
Sï¿½bastien de Mapias Â <sglrig...@gmail.com> writes:
Hi,
Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprï¿½ngdes

L>idï¿½e de "luftslott" se traduit par "chï¿½teau en Espagne" en
franï¿½ais. Littï¿½ralement donc "Le chï¿½teau en Espagne qui a explosï¿½".

Pierre

PJ: Â schl

"Castle in Spain" is, indeed, a rare phrase in English and the ancestral
one to
"castle in the air". This may derive from various sources on which either
research or
intelligent conjecture by parties in Spain or France may shed more light.
One possibility
is invidious, the French may have rightly or wrongly conceived that castles
were of
rare occurence in Spain. The other, more intriguing idea is that there the
phenomenon
of a fata morgana--or something similar--was observed by the French which
resembled
castles in the air over the Pyrenees appearing to be in Spain. Other
explanations are welcome.

It would be interesting to see if kindred phrases like luftshlï¿½sser or
schlï¿½sser im
Mond will be found in the German translation.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Hello Edward

I have already translated this expression from Swedish to English and
I remember that I used the expression

"Pie in the sky"

It worked well in a dialogue but maybe isn>t suitable for the title of
a book.

But what I wanted to say was that it is always interesting to look for
the origins of an expression but that we can>t assume 100% percent
that it has a 'tangible' explanation.

Castles in the sky maybe but pie in the sky???

Â I have not read this book but Larsson was a socialist and in Sweden
many of us get Joe HillÅ› " you get pie in the sky when you die" in
mind and "luftslott" means something of this world. Unrealistic plans
of many sorts.

Anneli- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
A:

If you>ve never heard the song about Joe Hill trilled by Joan Baez, it
would be a worthwhile discovery of her vocal power.

After seeing a global chart on gas prices, I>m guessing your
socialists have managed
to convert clouds into conveyances? Welcome to the group.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

Edward Hennessey · Guest

On Jul 8, 10:50 am, Lanarcam <lanarc...@yahoo.fr> wrote:
[quote]Edward Hennessey wrote:
Pierre Jelenc wrote:
Sébastien de Mapias <sglrig...@gmail.com> writes:
Hi,
Someone can tell me what the following title means exactly ?:
Luftslottet som sprängdes
L>idée de "luftslott" se traduit par "château en Espagne" en
français. Littéralement donc "Le château en Espagne qui a explosé".

Pierre

PJ: schl

"Castle in Spain" is, indeed, a rare phrase in English and the ancestral
one to
"castle in the air". This may derive from various sources on which either
research or
intelligent conjecture by parties in Spain or France may shed more light.
One possibility
is invidious, the French may have rightly or wrongly conceived that castles
were of
rare occurence in Spain.

You are right. I did not know the origin before
searching the Web.

I will not translate everything, the text in French
is given below. "This very old expression (dating from
le Roman de la Rose 13th century) stems from the
fact that castles were very rare in the countryside
in Spain. The Maures could not find refuge in them.
"Les chateaux en Espagne" is the metaphore for
what is deemed unfeasible.

That translation was the best I could achieve.

"Cette expression très ancienne (datant du Roman de la
Rose - XIIIième siècle) est entrée dans le langage courant
au XVIème siècle. Pasquier, en 1531, explique que cette
expression prend sa source dans le fait qu>en Espagne,
on ne trouve aucun château dans les campagnes : les Maures
se trouvaient ainsi sans possibilité de se réfugier dans
une demeure assurant leur retraite en toute sécurité.
C>est ainsi que les "châteaux en Espagne" sont devenus
la métaphore de ce qui est jugé infaisable."

http://www.francparler.com/syntagme.php?id=124

The other, more intriguing idea is that there the
phenomenon
of a fata morgana--or something similar--was observed by the French which
resembled
castles in the air over the Pyrenees appearing to be in Spain. Other
explanations are welcome.

It would be interesting to see if kindred phrases like luftshlösser or
schlösser im
Mond will be found in the German translation.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
[/quote]
L:

There exists a synthetic way of looking at this. There were few
castles in Spain, paritally explaining
the Moorish conquest as you note. Ergo, one looking for castles there
would be best advised to fancifully
imagine them in the sky. Though it would take the local knowledge of a
climatologist, if rain clouds
piled up along the borderland mountains, that would be a tip for
inventive cloud fantasists.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey


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