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justme · Guest

Is there an easy and cheap way to make liquid chlorine in sufficient
quantites to treat a 50,000 gallon pool?

Now, kiddies, go ahead and say buy it.

How about chlorine gas? I am aware of the dangers.

Thanks

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) · Guest

Dear justme:

"justme" <jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28b689.ero.17.1@news.alt.net...
[quote]Is there an easy and cheap way to make liquid
chlorine in sufficient quantites to treat a 50,000
gallon pool?

Now, kiddies, go ahead and say buy it.

How about chlorine gas? I am aware of the
dangers.
[/quote]
There are many choices:
- make ozone instead
- buy a salt water pool chlorinator (you generate oxides of
chlorine and free chorine in a brine solution)

David A. Smith

justme · Guest

Thanks but I want what I said and not saline solution.

j/b

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dlzc1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:SXzGk.56$jf4.10@newsfe10.iad...
[quote]Dear justme:

"justme" <jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28b689.ero.17.1@news.alt.net...
Is there an easy and cheap way to make liquid
chlorine in sufficient quantites to treat a 50,000
gallon pool?

Now, kiddies, go ahead and say buy it.

How about chlorine gas? I am aware of the
dangers.

There are many choices:
- make ozone instead
- buy a salt water pool chlorinator (you generate oxides of chlorine and
free chorine in a brine solution)

David A. Smith
[/quote]

justme · Guest

How old are you? You must be very young as to guess that someone didn>t
search -without basis in fact.

I DO NOT WANT SALT IN THE POOL IN ANY QUANTITES other than municipal water.
Making chlorine gas is fine as long as the gas can be isolated from the
brine.

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dlzc1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:DtAGk.58$jf4.32@newsfe10.iad...
[quote]Dear justme:

"justme" <jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28b875.a8m.19.1@news.alt.net...
"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dlzc1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:SXzGk.56$jf4.10@newsfe10.iad...
Dear justme:

"justme" <jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28b689.ero.17.1@news.alt.net...
Is there an easy and cheap way to make liquid
chlorine in sufficient quantites to treat a 50,000
gallon pool?

Now, kiddies, go ahead and say buy it.

How about chlorine gas? I am aware of the
dangers.

There are many choices:
- make ozone instead
- buy a salt water pool chlorinator (you generate
oxides of chlorine and free chorine in a brine
solution)

Thanks but I want what I said and not saline
solution.

You did not even search, did you? Pass current through it, as
municipalities and large pools do, and you get free chlorine, hypchlorite
ion, hydroxide ion, and hydrogen gas. This one way to make cheap bleach.

Google
salt water pool chlorinator
... 19,600 hits, like

http://www.clearwater-usa.com/
http://www.poolplaza.com/salt-water-chlorinators-2.shtml
http://www.balboainstruments.com/page206.html

David A. Smith
[/quote]

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) · Guest

Dear justme:

"justme" <jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28b875.a8m.19.1@news.alt.net...
[quote]"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dlzc1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:SXzGk.56$jf4.10@newsfe10.iad...
Dear justme:

"justme" <jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28b689.ero.17.1@news.alt.net...
Is there an easy and cheap way to make liquid
chlorine in sufficient quantites to treat a 50,000
gallon pool?

Now, kiddies, go ahead and say buy it.

How about chlorine gas? I am aware of the
dangers.

There are many choices:
- make ozone instead
- buy a salt water pool chlorinator (you generate
oxides of chlorine and free chorine in a brine
solution)

Thanks but I want what I said and not saline
solution.
[/quote]
You did not even search, did you? Pass current through it, as
municipalities and large pools do, and you get free chlorine,
hypchlorite ion, hydroxide ion, and hydrogen gas. This one way
to make cheap bleach.

Google
salt water pool chlorinator
.... 19,600 hits, like

http://www.clearwater-usa.com/
http://www.poolplaza.com/salt-water-chlorinators-2.shtml
http://www.balboainstruments.com/page206.html

David A. Smith

Bill Penrose · Guest

On Oct 6, 7:15 pm, "justme" <jble...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Is there an easy and cheap way to make liquid chlorine in sufficient
quantites to treat a 50,000 gallon pool?

Now, kiddies, go ahead and say buy it.

How about chlorine gas? I am aware of the dangers.
[/quote]
You>re probably pissed at spending $83 for a 40 lb can of chlorinating
tablets, like I was last night at Home Depot.

You can get generators that electrolyze sodium chloride solution. The
word from pool experts is that they>re more trouble than they>re
worth, keeping the electrodes unfouled, etc.

The cheapest form of chlorine is bleach, sodium hypochlorite solution,
but it leaves a salt residue behind until eventually your pool becomes
like the Dead Sea.

Mixing bleach and muriatic acid will free the chlorine, and the
chlorine can be dissolved in the pool water. Issues:
- metering acid into the bleach at a controlled rate, with
failsafes(!) in case something breaks and all the acid goes in at
once
- transport of the gas to a contacter where it will dissolve in pool
water (one or two pumps needed, with controls)
- contact between gas and pool water with 100% absorption of the
chlorine, or a tall stack to dissipate excess gas
- chlorine gas detector and alarm

But anything involving gaseous chlorine is friggin dangerous,
especially if you have kids around. And there>s the maintenance issue
of tearing down, getting rid of the expended bleach, and refilling.
Wear a good carbon filter gas mask certified for chlorine. No shit.
One good lungful will kill you, but you know that.

Dangerous Bill

Bill Penrose · Guest

On Oct 6, 8:55 pm, "justme" <jble...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]How old are you? You must be very young as to guess that someone didn>t
search -without basis in fact.
[/quote]
You just have a way of making people want to help you. I>m sorry I
wasted time on a reply.

DB

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) · Guest

"justme" <jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28bc3n.65m.17.1@news.alt.net...
[quote]How old are you? You must be very young as to
guess that someone didn>t search -without basis
in fact.
[/quote]
Your response indicated that you were not aware that these
chlorinators did not require the pool be salty. All you do is
increase the "blowdown"...

[quote]I DO NOT WANT SALT IN THE POOL IN ANY
QUANTITES other than municipal water. Making
chlorine gas is fine as long as the gas can be
isolated from the brine.
[/quote]
Then do that. salt + water, add DC current = electrolysis...
liberates chlorine gas at one electrode.

David A. Smith

dlzc · Guest

Dear justme:

On Oct 7, 12:06 pm, "justme" <jble...@gmail.com> wrote:
....
[quote]Yes, I am tired of spending 100 dollars per bucket
at Sam>s. We use a lot of it, too.
[/quote]
You can do what the big pools do... switch to bromine plus ozone.
Ozone is added just prior to the sand filter and "reactivates" the
bromine, and bromine has a lower vapor pressure than chlorine, so it
does not evaporate as fast (and is not lost as salt). Less chemical
addition, less pH adjustment, less hardness adjustment, less water
required.

You just have to put up with a "spooky" ozone generator.

No response required.

David A. Smith

David Bostwick · Guest

In article <28bc3n.65m.17.1@news.alt.net>, "justme" <jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]How old are you? You must be very young as to guess that someone didn>t
search -without basis in fact.

[/quote]
Actually, with experience in sci.chem comes higher expectations of people not
doing their own work, but expecting others to do it for them. "How do I make
a 1M solution of salt?" is a common type of question.

[quote]I DO NOT WANT SALT IN THE POOL IN ANY QUANTITES other than municipal water.
[/quote]
So you plan to bathe before you hop in? Be sure to use the right soap, and
don>t sweat between the bath and pool.

dlzc · Guest

Dear justme:

On Oct 7, 11:58 am, "justme" <jble...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Thanks for the info, David.

In all my searches, I found that commercial pool
chlorinators require salt albeit the quantities are low.

I did wonder why the gas was just not introduced
into the water.
[/quote]
"Where Does The Chlorine Come From? What Is The Cheapest, Safest
Source Of Chlorine... As A Raw Material?"

[quote] Perhaps it is not so readily absorbed by the water.

I really want to explore this.
[/quote]
Search
henry>s constant chlorine gas

http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/jceaax/1986/31/i01/f-pdf/f_je00043a017.pdf?sessid=6006l3

http://www.brainmass.com/homework-help/chemical-biochemical-engineering/momentum-heat-mass-transfer/5562

David A. Smith

Borked Pseudo Mailed · Guest

[quote]Now, kiddies, go ahead and say buy it.
[...]
Thanks but I want what I said and not saline
solution.
[...]
How old are you?
[/quote]
D A Smith is one of the more knowledgeable and helpful
posters to sci.chem. Your "kiddies" tone is rather
condescending, unappreciative and indicative of not
understanding the slow but (clarifying) interactive
nature of usenet, esp. sci.chem.

I tend to post lit references and links to specific
info and was thinking of doing so here but I am now
quite disinclined to do so. I wouldn>t want to insult
you with references to methods and practices that you
would claim to have already mastered, dismissed as
irrelevant to your DEMANDS and below your competence.

I think you owe D A Smith an apology (if he wants one).

justme · Guest

Thanks for the info, David.

In all my searches, I found that commercial pool chlorinators require salt
albeit the quantities are low.

I did wonder why the gas was just not introduced into the water. Perhaps it
is not so readily absorbed by the water.

I really want to explore this.

j/b

"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <dlzc1@cox.net> wrote in message
news:nmJGk.11758$S71.5183@newsfe13.iad...
[quote]"justme" <jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:28bc3n.65m.17.1@news.alt.net...
How old are you? You must be very young as to
guess that someone didn>t search -without basis
in fact.

Your response indicated that you were not aware that these chlorinators
did not require the pool be salty. All you do is increase the
"blowdown"...

I DO NOT WANT SALT IN THE POOL IN ANY
QUANTITES other than municipal water. Making
chlorine gas is fine as long as the gas can be
isolated from the brine.

Then do that. salt + water, add DC current = electrolysis... liberates
chlorine gas at one electrode.

David A. Smith
[/quote]

justme · Guest

Bill,

Yes, I am tired of spending 100 dollars per bucket at Sam>s. We use a lot
of it, too.

It seems that the electrodes on typical pool chlorinators are expensive, as
well.

I am curious as to what methods and processes are used to make the chlorine
that we buy from Home Depot, etc.

Thanks

j/b

"Bill Penrose" <dangerousbill@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:604bbab0-e75a-42f8-ad00-018f3560a65e@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 6, 7:15 pm, "justme" <jble...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Is there an easy and cheap way to make liquid chlorine in sufficient
quantites to treat a 50,000 gallon pool?

Now, kiddies, go ahead and say buy it.

How about chlorine gas? I am aware of the dangers.
[/quote]
You>re probably pissed at spending $83 for a 40 lb can of chlorinating
tablets, like I was last night at Home Depot.

You can get generators that electrolyze sodium chloride solution. The
word from pool experts is that they>re more trouble than they>re
worth, keeping the electrodes unfouled, etc.

The cheapest form of chlorine is bleach, sodium hypochlorite solution,
but it leaves a salt residue behind until eventually your pool becomes
like the Dead Sea.

Mixing bleach and muriatic acid will free the chlorine, and the
chlorine can be dissolved in the pool water. Issues:
- metering acid into the bleach at a controlled rate, with
failsafes(!) in case something breaks and all the acid goes in at
once
- transport of the gas to a contacter where it will dissolve in pool
water (one or two pumps needed, with controls)
- contact between gas and pool water with 100% absorption of the
chlorine, or a tall stack to dissipate excess gas
- chlorine gas detector and alarm

But anything involving gaseous chlorine is friggin dangerous,
especially if you have kids around. And there>s the maintenance issue
of tearing down, getting rid of the expended bleach, and refilling.
Wear a good carbon filter gas mask certified for chlorine. No shit.
One good lungful will kill you, but you know that.

Dangerous Bill

Bill Penrose · Guest

On Oct 7, 12:06 pm, "justme" <jble...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]I am curious as to what methods and processes are used to make the chlorine
that we buy from Home Depot, etc.
[/quote]
If you keep the level of cyanuric acid (chlorine stabilizer) high, the
chlorine will last longer.

Industrially, chlorine is made by electrolysis of molten sodium
chloride in huge chambers. The result is liquid sodium and gaseous
chlorine, which is either compressed and liquified, or absorbed into
sodium hydroxide (bleach), or lime (calcium hypochlorite). The process
needs lots of cheap electricity, and some plants are located in
Niagara Falls for that reason.

Some of the chlorine sold for pools is in the form of trichloro-
isocyanuric acid which breaks down completely and doesn>t leave salts
in the water to accumulate over the years. I don>t know how it>s made,
but that>s the stuff that>s $100 a bucket.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichloro-s-triazinetrione

Dangerous Bill


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