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StickThatInYourPipeAndSmo · Guest

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:01:33 -0700, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com>
wrote:

[quote]On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:48:23 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:02:25 -0500, Allan Herriman
allanherrmian@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi, I>m aware of some standards that dictate airflow direction in rack
mount cases (e.g. ETSI 300 119 and NEBS), and it>s usually front to back,
bottom to top, or (least preferred) left to right.

But recently I noticed some equipment from Brocade in a 1U case that drew
air in at the back, and blew it out the front. This is actually mentioned
in the datasheet, so it was not an assembly error (with the fans in the
wrong way around).

It>s called a "hand warmer."

Why would designers go against the standards and do this? Could there be
some benefit to the equipment?

Standards are for sheep. If a rack is internally plenum-fed with cool
(and sometimes super-temperature-controlled) air, it makes sense to
intake from inside the rack and dump the warm air into the room. We do
a bunch of electro-optical stuff that way, with the most temp-critical
stuff in the back of the box. The fan>s in front, so its own heat
heads straight out.

Left-right will just spin hot air inside a rack. And probably restrict
flow badly. Ditto bottom-top.

Small benchtop instruments usually blow out the back, so as not to
annoy users with the air and noise. Whatever works best.

John

Thinking a bit, bottom to top is helped by convection flows. Front
panel versus back panel requires consideration of who and why some is
at the front panel or back panel. The front panel is usually for
meter readers and such who are very intolerant of warm air in their
faces, back panels are usually full of connectors and such and
represent a restricted flow. Sideways flows in racks are useful only
in carefully managed situations. In all cases consider various users
and maintainers and total heat transport.

[/quote]
The idea is to create a positive pressure inside the rack module being
designed. One draws air in directly through the fans, and creates said
positive pressure. The fans should never be driving the exiting air, they
should always drive the incoming air.

So front of rack module inlet and rear out, the fans go in the front
panel. For rear of rack module inlet, and front panel outlet, the fans
go in the rear of the module.

This is particularly the case if you are filtering the incoming air.

MooseFET · Guest

On Jun 27, 10:01 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-
Web-Site.com> wrote:
[quote]On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:46:57 -0700, John Larkin

jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:57:12 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

Scare of the day...

The clearly written 2nd Amendment:

"The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed"

yesterday was _almost_ trashed by the leftist weenies on the Supreme
Court.

Fortunately, by a 5:4 decision, the leftist weenies were NOT able to
trash one of the most fundamental rights guaranteed to us under our
wonderfully written Constitution.

You snipped half of it. The 2nd amendment is the worst-written part of
the Constitution; it>s horribly ambiguous.

John

What is it about "_right_of_the_people_" that you don>t understand?

Why is it that the cities with the most restrictive gun laws have the
highest crime rates?
[/quote]
Because within the US places with low crime rates don>t have gun
laws. If you are the only person in a 100 mile radius, you are
unlikely to get mugged.

[quote]
And those towns that _require_ homeowner gun ownership have virtually
no crime?

Make my day... kick a leftist weenie>s ass ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC>s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com| 1962 |
| |
| Vote Barack... Help Make America an Obama-nation |
| |
| Due to excessive spam, googlegroups, UAR & AIOE are blocked! |[/quote]

StickThatInYourPipeAndSmo · Guest

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:01:33 -0700, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com>
wrote:

[quote]
Thinking a bit, bottom to top is helped by convection flows.
[/quote]
Not if there are other modules positioned directly above and below the
module in question.

One rarely sees rack modules designed with floor and ceiling
ventilation, and the benefit is not as great as you might like to think.

Cool air intake does the most good.

Liquid systems are moving into the fray.

John Larkin · Guest

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:18:48 -0700, StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt
<Zarathustra@thusspoke.org> wrote:

[quote]On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:01:33 -0700, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:48:23 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:02:25 -0500, Allan Herriman
allanherrmian@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi, I>m aware of some standards that dictate airflow direction in rack
mount cases (e.g. ETSI 300 119 and NEBS), and it>s usually front to back,
bottom to top, or (least preferred) left to right.

But recently I noticed some equipment from Brocade in a 1U case that drew
air in at the back, and blew it out the front. This is actually mentioned
in the datasheet, so it was not an assembly error (with the fans in the
wrong way around).

It>s called a "hand warmer."

Why would designers go against the standards and do this? Could there be
some benefit to the equipment?

Standards are for sheep. If a rack is internally plenum-fed with cool
(and sometimes super-temperature-controlled) air, it makes sense to
intake from inside the rack and dump the warm air into the room. We do
a bunch of electro-optical stuff that way, with the most temp-critical
stuff in the back of the box. The fan>s in front, so its own heat
heads straight out.

Left-right will just spin hot air inside a rack. And probably restrict
flow badly. Ditto bottom-top.

Small benchtop instruments usually blow out the back, so as not to
annoy users with the air and noise. Whatever works best.

John

Thinking a bit, bottom to top is helped by convection flows. Front
panel versus back panel requires consideration of who and why some is
at the front panel or back panel. The front panel is usually for
meter readers and such who are very intolerant of warm air in their
faces, back panels are usually full of connectors and such and
represent a restricted flow. Sideways flows in racks are useful only
in carefully managed situations. In all cases consider various users
and maintainers and total heat transport.

The idea is to create a positive pressure inside the rack module being
designed. One draws air in directly through the fans, and creates said
positive pressure. The fans should never be driving the exiting air, they
should always drive the incoming air.
[/quote]
The big advantage of negative pressure is that it lets you locate and
size various inlet holes to blow just the right amount of air on
specific hot spots. You can>t get that sort of tunability with a fan
blowing in.

Plus, the heat from the fan motor heads right out, not in.

John

Jim Thompson · Guest

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:57:26 -0400, "Greg Neill"
<gneillREM@OVEsympatico.ca> wrote:

[quote]"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote
in message news:ikuc64pjqb6g1nl4vr513rcs4smldg1se2@4ax.com
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:36:30 -0700, JosephKK <quiettechblue@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:35:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:55:12 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
nfilter/NewsProxy will crash every time while trying to retrieve
the body of this message...

Subject: Converting Excel 2007 Nested "If" Statement to Excel
2003: Overcom

Is there something there that nfilter/NewsProxy "sees" as code??

Weird.

Maybe this nfilter method is just too complicated ... ?

I simply use the filters in Thunderbird. Ok, that axes all google
groupers, can>t help it. But it reduces spam to about one a day. I
can live with that.

Turned out the message was all one extremely long line of Excel
code, choking nfilter.

I white-list a number of "good-guy" googlegroup posters.

But eliminate some leftist/Euro-weenie pains-in-the-ass ;-)

I see NO spam.

...Jim Thompson

Just to make sure, i will repeat: nfilter/NewsProxy does not read
message bodies, only headers. I have read the code. (the code is
very clean and rather pretty by the way. It would make a great
piece of example code for students, small, useful, and no silly
nonsense.)

So why does nfilter consistently barf on this message?

I know nfilter doesn>t look in the body, but the "References" header
allows me to kill follow-ups.

It may be that nfilter has a limit on the length of line
it can handle, that is, a buffer overflow is occurring.

Even if nfilter only "looks" at the headers, it still has
to read in and pass along the whole message to the downstream
news client.
[/quote]
That may well be the issue. When I tracked the message down via
googlegroups that mess _was_ in a single line.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC>s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
| |
| Vote Barack... Help Make America an Obama-nation |
| |
| Due to excessive spam, googlegroups, UAR & AIOE are blocked! |

Don McKenzie · Guest

Marco Trapanese wrote:
[quote]David L. Jones ha scritto:

There is FreeDOS too, but I have not used it myself so can>t vouch for
its stability:
http://www.freedos.org/

Thanks again.
Anyway, I>ve just sent an email to 4D.

Marco / iw2nzm
[/quote]
4d can be a little slow with emails right now. it could be better if you
send a message to the group for support, or visit the archives:
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/4d

Others may be able to answer your questions fairly quickly.

you will also find this product at:
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/micro-vga.html
in stock, and shipping world wide.

Cheers Don...

--
Don McKenzie

Site Map: http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email

Xbee Wireless Modules, and low cost Interface Boards.
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/xbee-boards.html

Guest · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: Re: Scare of the day...

On Jun 29, 12:55 am, Don Bowey <dbo...@comcast.net> wrote:
[quote]On 6/28/08 5:01 AM, in article
1a02f740-a13e-43ad-acf1-90579e00a...@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com,

"bill.slo...@ieee.org" <bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:

(snip)

The NRA much touted anecdote about armed citizens shooting burglars
ignores the fact that is that this hardly ever happens,and the most
likely target of a home-owners gun is the home-owner themself
(closely followed by their nearest and dearest) who exploit their
defensive weaponry to shoor themselves dead in moments of suicidal
depression. There are many other means of committing suicide while the
balance of your mind is temporarily disturbed, but few succeed as
frequently as the hand-gun.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

But it does still happen that armed citizens shoot, wounding or killing,
someone threatening them. For a very recent example, see:

http://www.kptv.com/news/16729310/detail.html#-

The armed citizen will not be charged with a crime.

The thief was fortunate. He was only shot in the hand with bird-shot
pellets. Had it been my gun, he would have been shot somewhere mid-body
with a .357 slug.
1!
I think I>ll see if I can buy some bird-shot loads for my .357. I don>t
really want to kill anyone threatening me, but I do plan to stop them. My
hollow-point bullets seem a bit extreme, but it is what was advised.
[/quote]
Sure. But it is rare enough that it makes the news. A householder
turning their own gun on themselves is common enough that it doesn>t
rate column inches outsde the local paper.

Owning a gun makes it appreciably more likely that you will end with
fatal gun shot wounds, most often self-inflicted with your nearest and
dearest, as the nex most likely perpetrator.

Some security system!

http://www.upenn.edu/ldi/issuebrief8_8.pdf

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_n5_v17?pnum=6&opg=18199116&tag=artBody;col1

Not that the statistics are likely to influence your opinion

http://research.yale.edu/culturalcognition/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=99

though public attitudes are changing

http://www.vpc.org/studies/gunownership.pdf

despite attempts to explain away the statistics

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_n5_v17?pnum=6&opg=18199116&tag=artBody;col1

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Richard The Dreaded Liber · Guest

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:01:59 +0000, James Arthur wrote:
[quote]John Larkin wrote:
James Arthur wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
James Arthur wrote:

"Have you ever witnessed the anger of the good shopkeeper, James
Goodfellow, when his careless son happened to break a pane of glass?
...."
But think of how many jobs Green Energy will create.

I thought of it already...Hillary mentioned it as an economic + climate
plan, which we could then sell to the rest of the world and...cash in!

Obama too. He proposes $150e9 to help green Detroit.[1]

The premise is that money or corporations are holding back progress.
And that other countries are too dumb to do smart stuff.

Conclusion: Let>s give money to corporations!

Reminds me of the World>s Fair in New Orleans, where everyone was going
to get rich providing services to each another.

Or their casino mania: "We>ll all get rich gambling in one another>s
casinos--we can>t lose!"

Ah, reminds me of the classic techniques to increasing the GDP and
reducing unemployment:

1. Have ten million people dig holes, and another 10 million fill them.

2. Everybody washes their neighbor>s dishes for $40 an hour.

That>s wrong-headed. The problem is the *gap* between rich and poor.

And there are a lot fewer rich than poor, so, as a practical matter, I
propose a *maximum* wage. About, say, $40/hr.

Penalties for hard work and overtime.

That ought to make everyone happy.
[/quote]
Oh, feh. For almost 100 years they>ve been trying to tax the income of
the rich, who have consistently found loopholes.

We need to lose the income tax, and instead, tax _outgo_:

Buy a $300,000 house, pay $30,000 purchase tax.
Buy a $300,000,000 mansion, pay $30,000,000 purchase tax.
Buy $300,000,000,000 worth of stocks & bonds & commodities & crap,
pay $30,000,000,000 purchase tax. ;-)

It could be just that simple.

And the mechanisms (for collecting sales tax) are already in place!

But don>t call it a "sales" tax - call it a "purchase" tax.

It>s the closest to "fair" that a tax could possibly be, considering
that all taxation is theft.

Cheers!
Rich

Joerg · Guest

Phat Bytestard wrote:
[quote]On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:57:30 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Phat Bytestard wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:05:13 -0700, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

No Cable ISP?

Yes, but prohibitively expensive if you don>t also by their bundle.

Lemmie guess... you hate cable too, so you have DirectTardTV.

No, antenna.

Yeah, well... one gets what one pays for.

I watched billiards today. TV is a bigger part of my life than it
apparently is in yours, and that is why I pay for cable services.
[/quote]

Once the switch to DTV is complete it>ll be even less important because
this stuff falls apart under multipath conditions. As I had predicted.
Oh well.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Richard The Dreaded Liber · Guest

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 00:30:55 +0000, Jim Yanik wrote:
[quote]
Obama will say anything to get elected,and then he can implement his
socialist policies.He>s a Commie.

[/quote]
They>re ALL socialists -
The left wing are the "People>s" socialists - they take your money and
give it to the negligent, lazy and stupid;
The "right" (i.e., neocon) wing are the "National" socialists, who
take your money and keep it for themselves.

So, would you rather be flayed alive or boiled in oil? >:->

Thanks,
Rich

Richard The Dreaded Liber · Guest

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:02:27 -0700, Joel Koltner wrote:
[quote]"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message

how>d you like the DemocRATs comments about nationalizing the oil
industries? they are showing their true colors.

Utter nonsense. I suspect that no one who suggests such a thing has made
a serious study in how the economy and government programs work.
[/quote]
Frankly, things are looking like NOBODY has made "a serious study in how
the economy and government programs work", or if anyone has, nobody>s
paying any attention to it.

Thanks,
Rich

Richard The Dreaded Liber · Guest

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:10:08 -0700, JosephKK wrote:
[quote]On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:11:02 GMT, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:17:30 -0700, mpm wrote:
On Jun 23, 3:46pm, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Nevada would be an option but we>d be in 110F and in the scorching sun
all day.

Yeah, I guess you>re right Joerg.
The bottled water would end up costing more than the diesel....

Just rinse out 1 gal. milk jugs and fill them from the tap. :-)

Do you drink tap water straight? Or Filtered?
[/quote]
Well, filtered to the extent that it>s done at the water plant.

So, yes, since I>m not suffering from paranoid delusions, I have no
problem drinking city water. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

will · Guest

On Jun 27, 5:25 pm, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgro...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
[quote]I>m thinking of building myself a (one-off) battery simulator to test some
LiIon charging ICs I>m using. The "battery>s" voltage would be between, say,
1-4.5V, sourcing current up to 7A and sinking current up to 3A. To build this
I>m thinking...

-- Totem-pole output: 5V bus to P-channel FET to "Vbat" terminal, Vbat to
N-channel FET to ground
-- Error amplifier compares battery>s setpoint voltage (adjusted by a pot) to
the Vbat terminal
-- If Vset - Vbat > 0, I need to souce current -- take the error voltage,
compute 5V-Verr with an op-amp, feed to P-channel FET>s gate
-- If Vset - Vbat < 0, I need to sink current -- invert the error voltage,
feed to N-channel FET>s gate

So effectively then are two control loops (one for each FET), both being run
off the same error amplifier output.

Does this sound reasonable? Is there an even simpler strategy?

Thanks,
---Joel
[/quote]
JOEL 7 AMPS THRO A FET IS A LOT. ALSO COSTLY
TRY USING A 78 AND 79 SERIES VOLTAGE CONT. TO TRANSISTORS.
SOME USED ELEC PARTS PLACES SELL STUFF CHEAPLY AS YOU
REQUIRE. [[[[[[WILL
]

Rich Grise · Guest

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:17:30 -0700, mpm wrote:
[quote]On Jun 23, 3:46pm, Joerg <notthisjoerg...@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Nevada would be an option but we>d be in 110F and in the scorching sun
all day.

Yeah, I guess you>re right Joerg.
The bottled water would end up costing more than the diesel....
[/quote]
It already does. At least the small bottles - at $1.25 a pint, that>s
$10.00 a gallon. ;-) (and the $1.25 bottle is probably more like 12 ozs.)

Cheers!
Rich

Rich Grise · Guest

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:21:50 -0700, hrh1818 wrote:

[quote]On Jun 27, 6:06 pm, Rich Grise <r...@example.net> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 07:08:50 -0700, reggie wrote:
What I need is for someone to describe how to get from mechanical
energy to electrical energy and give me an example calculation.

Say you have one tonne (1000kg) moving at 1meter/sec constant velocity
(no acceleration). How much power would it take in watts to keep the
mass moving at this speed?

Zero, if you ignore friction:
"I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that
state of motion unless an external force is applied to it."
--http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/history/newton3laws.html

What about gravity?

[/quote]
If he>d meant "lifting", howcome he didn>t say, "lifting"? ;-)

Thanks,
Rich


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