| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Joachim Pense
Guest
|
 Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:28 am Post subject: Infinitives |
 |
|
I just learned that Old English had two infinitives: "singan" 'to sing'
and "to singenne" 'in order to sing'. the form without "to" later
disappeared.
In German, we still have "singen" and "zu singen". Were there different
forms at a time (I don>t think there were in OHG, but I don>t feel really
at home in this area), or was that split an Old English innovation.
Joachim |
|
| |
|
 Back to top |
Trond Engen
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:11 am Post subject: Re: Infinitives |
|
|
Joachim Pense skreiv:
[quote]I just learned that Old English had two infinitives: "singan" 'to
sing' and "to singenne" 'in order to sing'. the form without "to"
later disappeared.
In German, we still have "singen" and "zu singen". Were there
different forms at a time (I don>t think there were in OHG, but I
don>t feel really at home in this area), or was that split an Old
English innovation.
[/quote]
Not anything near a qualified answer, but to me 'to singenne' looks
suspiciously like a dative. Surely that would indicate an archaism?
--
Trond Engen
- "han Trond i Engenne" |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Trond Engen
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: Re: Infinitives |
|
|
Trond Engen skreiv:
[quote]Joachim Pense skreiv:
I just learned that Old English had two infinitives: "singan" 'to
sing' and "to singenne" 'in order to sing'. the form without "to"
later disappeared.
In German, we still have "singen" and "zu singen". Were there
different forms at a time (I don>t think there were in OHG, but I
don>t feel really at home in this area), or was that split an Old
English innovation.
Not anything near a qualified answer, but to me 'to singenne' looks
suspiciously like a dative. Surely that would indicate an archaism?
[/quote]
Yes, it is. Google gives me _Higher Lessons In English_ by one ALONZO
REED, A.M.
(<https://www.freeonlinebooks.org/displaybook1.php?chapter_id=25&id=1283>):
[quote]In the Anglo-Saxon, to was used with the infinitive only in the
dative case, where it had its proper function as a preposition; as,
nominative etan (to eat); dative to etanne; accusative e:tan. When
the dative ending ne was dropped, making the three forms alike, the
to came to be used before the nominative and the accusative, but
without expressing relation.
This dative of the infinitive, with to, was used mainly to indicate
purpose. When, after the dropping of the ne ending, the idea of
purpose had to be conveyed by the infinitive, it became usual in
Elizabethan literature to place for before the to, "And for to deck
heaven>s battlements."-Greene. "What went ye out for to see?"-Bible.
"Shut the gates for to preserve the town."—K. Hen. VI., Part III.]
[/quote]
The existence of this dative is also mentioned in John Miller Dow
Meiklejohn: _A Brief History of the English Language and Literature,
Vol. 2 (of 2)_ (<http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21665/21665-h/21665-h.htm>):
[quote]The infinitive of verbs ended in an; and the sign to —- which we
received from the Danes —- was not in use, except for the dative of
the infinitive. This dative infinitive is still preserved in such
phrases as “a house to let;” “bread to eat;” “water to drink.”
[/quote]
I>m sure I could dig up more, but this seems to cover it.
--
Trond Engen
- answer first, then Google |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Trond Engen
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:47 am Post subject: Re: Infinitives |
|
|
Trond Engen skreiv:
[quote]Trond Engen skreiv:
Joachim Pense skreiv:
I just learned that Old English had two infinitives: "singan" 'to
sing' and "to singenne" 'in order to sing'. the form without "to"
later disappeared.
In German, we still have "singen" and "zu singen". Were there
different forms at a time (I don>t think there were in OHG, but I
don>t feel really at home in this area), or was that split an Old
English innovation.
Not anything near a qualified answer, but to me 'to singenne' looks
suspiciously like a dative. Surely that would indicate an archaism?
Yes, it is. Google gives me _Higher Lessons In English_ by one ALONZO
REED, A.M.
(<https://www.freeonlinebooks.org/displaybook1.php?chapter_id=25&id=1283>):
In the Anglo-Saxon, to was used with the infinitive only in the dative
case, where it had its proper function as a preposition; as,
nominative etan (to eat); dative to etanne; accusative e:tan. When the
dative ending ne was dropped, making the three forms alike, the to
came to be used before the nominative and the accusative, but without
expressing relation.
This dative of the infinitive, with to, was used mainly to indicate
purpose. When, after the dropping of the ne ending, the idea of
purpose had to be conveyed by the infinitive, it became usual in
Elizabethan literature to place for before the to, "And for to deck
heaven>s battlements."-Greene. "What went ye out for to see?"-Bible.
"Shut the gates for to preserve the town."—K. Hen. VI., Part III.]
The existence of this dative is also mentioned in John Miller Dow
Meiklejohn: _A Brief History of the English Language and Literature,
Vol. 2 (of 2)_
(<http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21665/21665-h/21665-h.htm>):
The infinitive of verbs ended in an; and the sign to —- which we
received from the Danes —- was not in use, except for the dative of
the infinitive. This dative infinitive is still preserved in such
phrases as “a house to let;” “bread to eat;” “water to drink.”
I>m sure I could dig up more, but this seems to cover it.
[/quote]
I think both go back to Richard Morris: _Historical Outlines of English
Accidence, Comprising Chapters on the History and Development of the
Language, and on Word Formation_ (London, 1872) (The relevant chapter at
<http://books.google.com/books?id=5y8ognYKtz4C&pg=PA49>)
And, when I tnhink about it, this is obviously equivalent to gerund.
High German had a gerund.
--
Trond Engen
- infinitely slow |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Paul J Kriha
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Infinitives |
|
|
Trond Engen wrote:
[quote]Trond Engen skreiv:
methatesis
This, of course, being the only sensible way to write that word.
[/quote]
Right you are, that>s a good simple straight forward word.
People who on a rash impulse overindulge in methamphetamines
may suffer acute methatesis, that is, they go blind.
Ate (rush impulse) was a Greek goddess who made men blind
so they blundered into guilty acts.
pjk
- feels safer with pinot noir |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
