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Roland Paterson-Jones
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 Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 12:45 am Post subject: Hydrocarbon-water emulsifiers? |
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Hi all
I am looking for emulsifiers/stabilizers for hydrocarbon/water emulsions,
for example water-gasoline, water-diesel, water-vegetable-oil (sunflower),
both water-in-oil (w/o) and oil-in-water(o/w) in ratios of
water-to-hydrocarbon of 50/50 to 10/90. We are also preparing
hydrocarbon-water emulsions with additional ethanol content, up to 20%.
The application is special-purpose combustion fuels. Emulsions are prepared
using 28KHz ultrasound stage after an initial mechanical mixer.
We are currently using salted egg-yolk for our trial emulsions (0.5%). Is
there a better artificial emulsifier?
Thanks for any pointers
Roland
--
Roland Paterson-Jones
Forest Lodge, Stirrup Lane, Hout Bay
http://www.rolandpj.com/forest-lodge
mobile: +27 72 386 8045
e-mail: forest-lodge@rolandpj.com |
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David Lloyd-Jones
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:04 am Post subject: Re: Hydrocarbon-water emulsifiers? |
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Roland Paterson-Jones wrote:
[quote]I am looking for emulsifiers/stabilizers for hydrocarbon/water emulsions,
for example water-gasoline, water-diesel, water-vegetable-oil (sunflower),
both water-in-oil (w/o) and oil-in-water(o/w) in ratios of
water-to-hydrocarbon of 50/50 to 10/90. We are also preparing
hydrocarbon-water emulsions with additional ethanol content, up to 20%.
The application is special-purpose combustion fuels. Emulsions are prepared
using 28KHz ultrasound stage after an initial mechanical mixer.
We are currently using salted egg-yolk for our trial emulsions (0.5%). Is
there a better artificial emulsifier?
[/quote]
One source you might have fun reading is any textbook on cosmetics:
most cosmetics, and vast ranges of pharmaceuticals, are
hydrocarbon/water emulsions, with just the tiniest dabs of other
stuff -- colorants, scents, medicaments, etc. -- added. So those
guys have 150 years (hell, 3000 years) of extremely varied and very
thorough experience in the field.
-dlj. |
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Roland Paterson-Jones
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:24 am Post subject: Re: Hydrocarbon-water emulsifiers? |
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"Marvin Margoshes" <physnospamchem@cloud9.net> wrote in message
news:vigaqvs8bob6c8@corp.supernews.com...
[quote]
"Roland Paterson-Jones" <roland@rolandpj.com> wrote in message
news:3f282043$0$227@hades.is.co.za...
I am looking for emulsifiers/stabilizers for hydrocarbon/water
emulsions,
Have you tried ordinary detergents? A common test of detergency is to
addd
oil dropwise to a solution of the detergent, until a stable emulsion can
not
be achieved.
[/quote]
We have experimented with 'ordinary' soap, which is also an adequate
emulsifier.
Where can I find out more about detergent chemistry?
My problem is somewhat more pragmatic than theoretical. I need to create a
stable emulsion where the emulsifier doesn>t interfere with the viscosity of
the emulsion, doesn>t interfere with the combustion chemistry of the
emulsion, and doesn>t produce toxic emissions under combustion.
Thanks again
Roland
--
Roland and Lisa Paterson-Jones
Forest Lodge, Stirrup Lane, Hout Bay
http://www.rolandpj.com/forest-lodge
mobile: +27 72 386 8045
e-mail: forest-lodge@rolandpj.com |
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Roland Paterson-Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Hydrocarbon-water emulsifiers? |
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Barry, thanks for your input.
You have opened up a world of cosmetics that I didn>t know existed.
"Barry Hunt" <barry.hunt@soltec.com.au> wrote in message
news:bg9j6r$1qb4$1@arachne.labyrinth.net.au...
[quote]"Marvin Margoshes" <physnospamchem@cloud9.net> wrote in message
"Roland Paterson-Jones" <roland@rolandpj.com> wrote in message
I am looking for emulsifiers/stabilizers for hydrocarbon/water
emulsions,
You need low HLB emulsifiers, like sorbitan laurate/sorbitan stearate for
w/o. There are dozens (maybe hundreds) commonly used in the
cosmetics/petrochemical industries. It is a major project to fine-tune the
combinations to give the best results. What works at 10% water in oil
won>t
necessarily work at 50%. What works for diesel won>t work for veg oil.
How long a stability do you need? your homogenizer sounds pretty
efficient -
may overcome the limitations of the surfactant system.
[/quote]
At the moment we have proved 10 micron homogenization of all of our required
combinations. My main aim is proof of ultrasound for emulsification.
Stability of the emulsion is our second stage. However, we are first
pursuing stepwise increased ultrasound frequency to improve the granularity
of the emulsion (hopefully below micron).
Thanks for your hugely informative help
Roland
--
Roland and Lisa Paterson-Jones
Forest Lodge, Stirrup Lane, Hout Bay
http://www.rolandpj.com/forest-lodge
mobile: +27 72 386 8045
e-mail: forest-lodge@rolandpj.com |
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Bruce Hamilton
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: Hydrocarbon-water emulsifiers? |
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"Roland Paterson-Jones" <roland@rolandpj.com> wrote:
[quote]I am looking for emulsifiers/stabilizers for hydrocarbon/water emulsions,
for example water-gasoline, water-diesel, water-vegetable-oil (sunflower),
both water-in-oil (w/o) and oil-in-water(o/w) in ratios of
water-to-hydrocarbon of 50/50 to 10/90. We are also preparing
hydrocarbon-water emulsions with additional ethanol content, up to 20%.
[/quote]
A patent search should find plenty of recipes for fuel emulsifiers, and some
specific ones, eg Lubrizol>s PuriNOx are commercially available for
formulators. Emulsion fuels for transport in the USA have to get approval,
not certain about stationary fuels, as many site may have emissions control
systems, but they could be expensive if they destroy big engines.
The EPA has listed a bibliography of emulsion fuels, most of which are SAE
papers on the effects of emulsions, but which presumably will also list the
emulsifiers used.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/emulsion/emulbibl.pdf
There are several emulsion fuels around, usually with diesel and fuel oils
because their density helps and the water is useful in reducing undesirable
emissions, specifically NOx. Such fuels usually have 20 - 50 % water, and
Chevron marketed a 20% water-diesel emulsion in southern California as
Proformix.
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/proformix/questions.shtml
The most well known emulsion fuel proponent is Gunnerman, whose A55 was/is
intended for gasoline engines and D-55 for diesel engines. He later changed
the name to A-21 and a search on Gunnerman and/or A-21 fuel should find plenty
of information.
Bruce Hamilton |
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Joe 123
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: Hydrocarbon-water emulsifiers? |
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Zinc is used as a biocide or fungicide. Look at your roof.
"David Lloyd-Jones" <dalj@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3F284390.2030708@rogers.com...
[quote]David Lloyd-Jones wrote:
Roland Paterson-Jones wrote:
I am looking for emulsifiers/stabilizers for hydrocarbon/water
emulsions,
for example water-gasoline, water-diesel, water-vegetable-oil
(sunflower),
both water-in-oil (w/o) and oil-in-water(o/w) in ratios of
water-to-hydrocarbon of 50/50 to 10/90. We are also preparing
hydrocarbon-water emulsions with additional ethanol content, up to 20%.
One source you might have fun reading is any textbook on cosmetics: most
cosmetics, and vast ranges of pharmaceuticals, are hydrocarbon/water
emulsions, with just the tiniest dabs of other stuff -- colorants,
scents, medicaments, etc. -- added. So those guys have 150 years (hell,
3000 years) of extremely varied and very thorough experience in the
field.
Two of the most widely used medicines over the past three thousand
years or so have been zinc oxide ointment and calamine lotion, which
is today zinc silicate, and historically has been zinc carbonate.
Now the popularity of both of these probably comes from their
astringent properties: pleasant to the feel, and somewhat antiseptic.
Still -- somebody correct me if I>m wrong -- I can>t help wondering
whether the zinc compound was really just in there as the emulsifier
-- and the main medical effect of these oinments wasn>t the base oil
and water, emolient and hydrator. :-)
-dlj.
[/quote] |
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Joe 123
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: Hydrocarbon-water emulsifiers? |
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A good paractice in making emulsions is to balance the desities of the two
liquids. Also extreme shear is a must and a good surfactant to prvent the
droplets from recombining. Call up your local chemical distributor like
ashland, brenntag, etc. or call rhome and haas, stepan, etc. they will
send you samples etc. Emulsion chemistry is an art. alot of companies
sell propietory blends of chemicals that might work. search the internet
and call and get samples and instructions.
On using ultrasonics, Ive always used ultrasonics to break emulsions. Just
curious because Ive never heard of using US to make emulsions. Put an
emulsion in a US cleaner and w/in 10 minutes you get layers. Ie liq/liq
extractions especially when surfactants aere present.
"Roland Paterson-Jones" <roland@rolandpj.com> wrote in message
news:3f282043$0$227@hades.is.co.za...
[quote]Hi all
I am looking for emulsifiers/stabilizers for hydrocarbon/water emulsions,
for example water-gasoline, water-diesel, water-vegetable-oil (sunflower),
both water-in-oil (w/o) and oil-in-water(o/w) in ratios of
water-to-hydrocarbon of 50/50 to 10/90. We are also preparing
hydrocarbon-water emulsions with additional ethanol content, up to 20%.
The application is special-purpose combustion fuels. Emulsions are
prepared
using 28KHz ultrasound stage after an initial mechanical mixer.
We are currently using salted egg-yolk for our trial emulsions (0.5%). Is
there a better artificial emulsifier?
Thanks for any pointers
Roland
--
Roland Paterson-Jones
Forest Lodge, Stirrup Lane, Hout Bay
http://www.rolandpj.com/forest-lodge
mobile: +27 72 386 8045
e-mail: forest-lodge@rolandpj.com
[/quote] |
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Klemens Schatka
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Hydrocarbon-water emulsifiers? |
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Hi Roland,
try one of the products from http://www.carbopol.com/ like Pemulen.
I have successfully worked with some of the thickeners.
Klemens |
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