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David
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 Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: How white were the Israelites? Facial reconstruction may be |
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Haaretz
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1037262.html
The "subjects of the Kingdom of Judea in the
Second Temple Period looked more like black
Africans. This theory arose after Prof. Yair Ben
David of Tel-Aviv University conducted the
first-ever facial reconstruction of its kind."
David Christainsen |
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Jack Linthicum
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Facial reconstruction question (Was: Re: How white were |
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On Nov 15, 3:37 pm, Whiskers <catwhee...@operamail.com> wrote:
[quote]["Followup-To:" header set to sci.archaeology.]
On 2008-11-15, DK <d...@no.email.thankstospam.net> wrote:
In article
212dda16-abd4-43d7-be5f-12c81cf82...@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, David
pchristain...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Haaretz
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1037262.html
The "subjects of the Kingdom of Judea in the
Second Temple Period looked more like black
Africans. This theory arose after Prof. Yair Ben
David of Tel-Aviv University conducted the
first-ever facial reconstruction of its kind."
With all the attention various famous facial reconstructions
(FR) get, I have a question:
Have any of the FR techniques been validated in the
control experiment(s)? The obvious control that is normally
required in most natural sciences would be something like
this:
- Take few skulls of diverse people for which photos are
available (there must be many of these as anatomical gifts).
- Let experimentator do FRs blindly.
- Compare the results to reality visually/subjectively AND
let computer program(s) trained in facial recognition do
the comparisons as well.
IMHO, before something along these lines is done and the
results are affirmatively positive, there is absolutely no
reason to believe in any of the FR results or pay any
attention to the images generated.
Any links/papers on the subject? Thanks!
DK
The techniques are well established - but rely to some extent on making
assumptions which are potentially invalid.
.-----<http://www.forensicartist.com/reconstruction.html
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|[...]
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| By utilizing proper tissue depth data determined by race, gender, and age.
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| Information such as geographic location of where the deceased lived, his
| or her lifestyle, and the various information provided to the artist by
| the Forensic Anthropologist and other professionals, is heavily relied
| upon when completing the reconstruction.
|
| [...]
'-----
So there is some scope for the initial assumptions made, to influence the
resulting image or sculpture.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
[/quote]
So they all come out looking like Patrick Stewart? |
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Whiskers
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: Re: How white were the Israelites? Facial reconstruction may |
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On 2008-11-15, David <pchristainsen@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]Haaretz
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1037262.html
The "subjects of the Kingdom of Judea in the
Second Temple Period looked more like black
Africans. This theory arose after Prof. Yair Ben
David of Tel-Aviv University conducted the
first-ever facial reconstruction of its kind."
David Christainsen
[/quote]
May come as a surprise to some, or even many, but 'Black Jews' are not a
new idea. Ethiopia was Jewish before the conversions to Christianity and
Islam (and some Ethiopians still follow their ancient Jewish customs and
beliefs). The Lemba of southern Africa are also recognised as Jewish in
origin; genetic studies show that many Lemba carry a gene thought of as
indicative of the Jewish priestly Cohen lineage. Interestingly, both the
Ethiopians and Lemba have traditions that the biblical Ark of the Covenent
was (or is) in their possession.
The question of what colour the ancient Hebrews or Israelites (and other
'middle eastern people') were has been debated for a very long time.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~ |
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Whiskers
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Facial reconstruction question (Was: Re: How white were |
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On 2008-11-15, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthicum@earthlink.net> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 15, 3:37Â pm, Whiskers <catwhee...@operamail.com> wrote:
["Followup-To:" header set to sci.archaeology.]
On 2008-11-15, DK <d...@no.email.thankstospam.net> wrote:
In article
212dda16-abd4-43d7-be5f-12c81cf82...@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, David
pchristain...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[/quote]
[...]
[quote]IMHO, before something along these lines is done and the
results are affirmatively positive, there is absolutely no
reason to believe in any of the FR results or pay any
attention to the images generated.
Any links/papers on the subject? Thanks!
DK
The techniques are well established - but rely to some extent on making
assumptions which are potentially invalid. Â
.-----<http://www.forensicartist.com/reconstruction.html
|
|[...]
|
| By utilizing proper tissue depth data determined by race, gender, and age.
|
| [...]
|
| Information such as geographic location of where the deceased lived, his
| or her lifestyle, and the various information provided to the artist by
| the Forensic Anthropologist and other professionals, is heavily relied
| upon when completing the reconstruction.
|
| [...]
'-----
So there is some scope for the initial assumptions made, to influence the
resulting image or sculpture.
So they all come out looking like Patrick Stewart?
[/quote]
I don>t think 'they' would get a round skull to look like a long one, or
heavy brow ridges to vanish, but certainly if you put the 'numbers' for a
young Russian boy onto a skull that actually belonged to an old Nigerian
woman then you>d be unlikely to get a good likeness. Even if she>d died
in a Russian home for boys ...
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~ |
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