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himanshu
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 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:40 pm Post subject: how was first living organism created |
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| can anyone tell me how was first livng organism created. |
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Frank Reichenbacher
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:39 am Post subject: Re: how was first living organism created |
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"himanshu" <himanshujoshi5@yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
news:bpatm7$18ev$1@darwin.ediacara.org...
[quote]can anyone tell me how was first livng organism created.
[/quote]
No.
Frank |
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jussy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: how was first living organism created |
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Maybe these exerpts will help...
"About four billion years ago, Earth was sufficiently at rest, and
sufficiently in its present form, to be a habitable world. Within no
more than half a billion years thereafter, it would appear, simple
life had come into existence. For the remaining 3.5 billion years
(three fourths of its total existence) Earth has been, as far as we
can tell, continuously inhabited by a variety of living orgainisms.
How was life first formed?
The only possible scientific conclusion (one that does not involve
supernatural action, of which we have no evidence whatsoever) is that
random combinations of simple molecules that existed in Earth>s
atmosphere and oceans built up more complicated and still more
complicated molecules. Eventually, molecules formed that were
sufficiently complicated to possess the properties we associate with
life.
This is not something we can observe directly, either here on Earth,
where we are spearated from the event by billions of years of time, or
on other worlds, since the nearest habitable world must be separted
from us by many light years of space. Nevertheless, we can obtain
indirect evidence.
To begin with, we must determine what the simple molecules that
existed on the primordial Earth must have been. That they were the
molecules that make up the ices, scientists now generally agree.
There is some dispute on the exact combination, though. There is some
dispute on the exact combination, though. Water was certainly
present, as were molecules containing nitrogen and others containing
carbon.
On Jupiter and other worlds of the solar system, carbon and nitrogen
are each present in combination with hydrogen - methane and ammonia,
respectively. On Venus and Mars, carbon is present in cobination with
oxygen (carbon dioxide), while nitrogen atoms exist in pairs as
nitrogen molecules.
There are some scientists who think the primordial atmosphere of Earth
was ammonia, methane, and water vapor, with ammonia dissolving in
large quantities in the ocean. Others think the primordial atmosphere
of Earth was ammoinia, methane, and water vapor (Atmosphere I) at the
outset, this being converted by natural processes, not involving life,
to carbon dioxide, nitrogen and water vapor (Atmosphere II).
The choice between atmospheres is not a crucial one. In either
atmosphere, the atoms of hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen (which
make up 99 percent of the atoms of soft tissure in any organism) are
to be found. The atoms that make up the remainder of the tissues,
including the atoms that make the hard tissures hard, were to be found
in solutions in the primordial ocean.
Given the simple molecuels (whichever they are), what process would be
required to build up more complicated molecules from them? Simple
collisions and random interchange of atoms would not be enoguh. In
gerneral, the conversion of simplere molecules into more complicated
ones is an energy-consuming change. In other words, energy, would
have to be supplied to the system to make the change possible.
The primordial Earth, however, had numerous sources of energy
available. There was the heat of volcanic action, or the electrical
energy of the lightning bolt, and it is quite probable that, at the
beginning, the Earth was a more violent place than it is now, with
more volcanic eruptions and many more thunderstorms.
Then, too, there was the enregy of radioactivity, and, at the start,
radioactive intensitites were greater than now because, in the
billions of years that have passed sinse the Earth was formed, an
appreciable fraction of the original supply of radioactive atoms has
broken down."
My wrist is sore maybe Ill write more later...
[quote]from (without permission):
The Exploding Suns
The Secrets of the Supernovas
Page 207-209
Isaac Asimov
[/quote]
Justin
PS
Can anybody tell me the proper way to refer to someones work... |
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TomHendricks474
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: how was first living organism created |
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<< The primordial Earth, however, had numerous sources of energy
available. There was the heat of volcanic action, or the electrical
energy of the lightning bolt, and it is quite probable that, at the
beginning, the Earth was a more violent place than it is now, with
more volcanic eruptions and many more thunderstorms.
Then, too, there was the enregy of radioactivity, and, at the start,
radioactive intensitites were greater than now because, in the
billions of years that have passed sinse the Earth was formed, an
appreciable fraction of the original supply of radioactive atoms has
broken down."
TH
A note on energy at this period of earth>s history.
According to Miller and Orgels, The Origins of Life on the Earth, virtually all
the energy source on the primitive earth comes from the sun.
I tend to agree and I think we should make it clear that what energy came from
electrical discharges, shock waves, radioactivity, or volcanoes were extremely
minimal - much much less than 1% combined.
Note also that any life system would have to have some cyclic energy source.
Look at the options:
1. random strikes of lightning - nothing concrete for pre life to react to and
build on
2. constant energy - nothing variable to set up variants for selection.
With constant heat - everything burns up.
With constant loss of heat - everything shuts down, goes dormant.
3. cyclic heat source - constant enough to build on with variants to allow for
selection.
Also this word - the temp at this time must have been within the boundaries of
liquid water. That narrows things considerably to 0-100C. I suggest - even
though the sun was less luminous then, that it was nearer the top end (100C)
than the lower end. |
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Tim Tyler
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: how was first living organism created |
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jussy <jussy1234@hotmail.com> wrote or quoted:
[quote]The only possible scientific conclusion (one that does not involve
supernatural action, of which we have no evidence whatsoever) is that
random combinations of simple molecules that existed in Earth>s
atmosphere and oceans built up more complicated and still more
complicated molecules. Eventually, molecules formed that were
sufficiently complicated to possess the properties we associate with
life.
[/quote]
That is most certainly not the only possible scientific conclusion - it is
an incredibly unlikely story - like the apocryphal 747 in the junkyard.
*Much* more likely is that self-organising processes were involved.
Nor need large, complex molecules be involved in the process - simple,
atomic units could have been the basis of an evolutionary process -
without combining into large molecules - by instead sticking together
in crystalline configurations.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1lock.org Remove lock to reply. |
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Ann Morgan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: how was first living organism created |
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Tim Tyler <tim@tt1lock.org> wrote in message news:<bpoals$2cqo$1@darwin.ediacara.org>...
[quote]
That is most certainly not the only possible scientific conclusion - it is
an incredibly unlikely story - like the apocryphal 747 in the junkyard.
Given a large enough number of junkyards and a great enough length of[/quote]
time, the presence of a 747 in one of them is almost inevitable. |
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jussy
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: how was first living organism created |
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Sorry, I had to quit typing because my hand was getting soar. The
paragraphs I posted were *not meant to arrive at any conclusion*, I
actually quit typing when he was arriving at some reasonable
conceptions. The paragraphs I posted were mere explorations of some
ideas scientist had/have. I encourage you to find the book at your
local library or whatnot.
Mr. Asimov actually proceeds to find cosmic radiation as the only
reasonable source for creating an environment that encourages the
creation of elementary traits of life, theoretically of course. He
explains the cyclic occurrences possible, and needed, by dwelling into
theories on our magnetic field and how they are involved with cosmic
radiation, seemingly the most viable source of energy for the building
of the simple molecules needed to create the basis of life we perceive
today.
I would ask that Tim Tyler try to illustrate his ideas with more
information. In my opinion, his/your post was slightly confusing and
empty at best.
Justin McKenzie
Tim Tyler <tim@tt1lock.org> wrote in message news:<bpoals$2cqo$1@darwin.ediacara.org>...
[quote]jussy <jussy1234@hotmail.com> wrote or quoted:
The only possible scientific conclusion (one that does not involve
supernatural action, of which we have no evidence whatsoever) is that
random combinations of simple molecules that existed in Earth>s
atmosphere and oceans built up more complicated and still more
complicated molecules. Eventually, molecules formed that were
sufficiently complicated to possess the properties we associate with
life.
That is most certainly not the only possible scientific conclusion - it is
an incredibly unlikely story - like the apocryphal 747 in the junkyard.
*Much* more likely is that self-organising processes were involved.
Nor need large, complex molecules be involved in the process - simple,
atomic units could have been the basis of an evolutionary process -
without combining into large molecules - by instead sticking together
in crystalline configurations.[/quote] |
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Tim Tyler
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: how was first living organism created |
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Ann Morgan <septithol@yahoo.com> wrote or quoted:
[quote]Tim Tyler <tim@tt1lock.org> wrote in message news:<bpoals$2cqo$1@darwin.ediacara.org>...
That is most certainly not the only possible scientific conclusion - it is
an incredibly unlikely story - like the apocryphal 747 in the junkyard.
Given a large enough number of junkyards and a great enough length of
time, the presence of a 747 in one of them is almost inevitable.
[/quote]
Maybe - but if there are other - more probable - approaches to
construction, then there>s no need to invoke the "junkyard hurricane"
in the first place.
After all, if you find yourself looking at a 747 the chances of it
having been built by a hurricane in a junkyard are negligible.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1lock.org Remove lock to reply. |
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