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Dennis · Guest

So far the shipping lines just pay ransom to the Somali pirates
because it>s the cheapest thing to do, but it>s a traditional duty of
navies to suppress piracy. So far as I know, they still have the ship with
Ukrainian tanks, and they just seized a supertanker on the high seas. It
keeps getting worse.

What would be the best way to supress the pirates operating out of
Somalia? Have ships sail in convoys, escorted by a naval vessel?
Continual air patrols? Armed naval crews on merchant ships? Or try to
wipe out pirate bases?

Don>t Punt! :-) What would be the right way?

Dennis

Malcolm \"Mal\" Reynolds · Guest

Dennis <tsalagi18NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns9B59E3B316ED4tsalagiNOSPAMasusnet@130.133.1.4:

[quote]So far the shipping lines just pay ransom to the Somali pirates
because it>s the cheapest thing to do, but it>s a traditional duty of
navies to suppress piracy. So far as I know, they still have the ship
with Ukrainian tanks, and they just seized a supertanker on the high
seas. It keeps getting worse.

What would be the best way to supress the pirates operating out
of
Somalia? Have ships sail in convoys, escorted by a naval vessel?
Continual air patrols? Armed naval crews on merchant ships? Or try to
wipe out pirate bases?

Don>t Punt! :-) What would be the right way?

Dennis

[/quote]
Kidnap the pirates families.

hcobb · Guest

On Nov 17, 9:27 pm, "Raymond O>Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
[quote]wipe out the pirate bases.
[/quote]
Insufficient if they>re left alone to rebuild.

Deny them safe harbor.

Bush should have waited until Afghanistan was secure then moved onto
Somalia, leaving Iraq to "wither on the vine."

Now Al-Qaeda has a profitable base in Africa, sitting on Europe>s
supply line.

-HJC

Raymond O'Hara · Guest

"Dennis" <tsalagi18NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B59E3B316ED4tsalagiNOSPAMasusnet@130.133.1.4...
[quote]So far the shipping lines just pay ransom to the Somali pirates
because it>s the cheapest thing to do, but it>s a traditional duty of
navies to suppress piracy. So far as I know, they still have the ship
with
Ukrainian tanks, and they just seized a supertanker on the high seas. It
keeps getting worse.

What would be the best way to supress the pirates operating out of
Somalia? Have ships sail in convoys, escorted by a naval vessel?
Continual air patrols? Armed naval crews on merchant ships? Or try to
wipe out pirate bases?

Don>t Punt! :-) What would be the right way?

Dennis
[/quote]
wipe out the pirate bases.

Matt Wiser · Guest

Concur. And sink any known or suspected pirate small craft and mother ship
on sight.
"Raymond O>Hara" <raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gftjnm$5e3$1@news.albasani.net...
[quote]
"Dennis" <tsalagi18NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B59E3B316ED4tsalagiNOSPAMasusnet@130.133.1.4...
So far the shipping lines just pay ransom to the Somali pirates
because it>s the cheapest thing to do, but it>s a traditional duty of
navies to suppress piracy. So far as I know, they still have the ship
with
Ukrainian tanks, and they just seized a supertanker on the high seas.
It
keeps getting worse.

What would be the best way to supress the pirates operating out of
Somalia? Have ships sail in convoys, escorted by a naval vessel?
Continual air patrols? Armed naval crews on merchant ships? Or try to
wipe out pirate bases?

Don>t Punt! :-) What would be the right way?

Dennis

wipe out the pirate bases.

[/quote]

Kerryn Offord · Guest

Matt Wiser wrote:
[quote]Concur. And sink any known or suspected pirate small craft and mother ship
on sight.
"Raymond O>Hara" <raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gftjnm$5e3$1@news.albasani.net...
"Dennis" <tsalagi18NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B59E3B316ED4tsalagiNOSPAMasusnet@130.133.1.4...
So far the shipping lines just pay ransom to the Somali pirates
because it>s the cheapest thing to do, but it>s a traditional duty of
navies to suppress piracy. So far as I know, they still have the ship
with
Ukrainian tanks, and they just seized a supertanker on the high seas.
It
keeps getting worse.

What would be the best way to supress the pirates operating out of
Somalia? Have ships sail in convoys, escorted by a naval vessel?
Continual air patrols? Armed naval crews on merchant ships? Or try to
wipe out pirate bases?

Don>t Punt! :-) What would be the right way?

Dennis
wipe out the pirate bases.

[/quote]

Or you could just "follow the money" and identify the big investors
behind the "trade" (You don>t get normal Somali fishermen come pirates
operating that far away from home waters.. They need infrastructure
(planning, at sea support -- mother ships etc)..

Get the big operators out of the equation and you get back to the
regular tolerable level of piracy... (30 ships so far this year all
paying over $1million ransom.. That>s a lot of money... a lot more than
the Somalis can spend...

Kerryn Offord · Guest

Matt Wiser wrote:
[quote]Concur. And sink any known or suspected pirate small craft and mother ship
on sight.
"Raymond O>Hara" <raymond-ohara@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gftjnm$5e3$1@news.albasani.net...
"Dennis" <tsalagi18NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B59E3B316ED4tsalagiNOSPAMasusnet@130.133.1.4...
So far the shipping lines just pay ransom to the Somali pirates
because it>s the cheapest thing to do, but it>s a traditional duty of
navies to suppress piracy. So far as I know, they still have the ship
with
Ukrainian tanks, and they just seized a supertanker on the high seas.
It
keeps getting worse.

What would be the best way to supress the pirates operating out of
Somalia? Have ships sail in convoys, escorted by a naval vessel?
Continual air patrols? Armed naval crews on merchant ships? Or try to
wipe out pirate bases?

Don>t Punt! :-) What would be the right way?

Dennis
wipe out the pirate bases.

[/quote]

Or you could just "follow the money" and identify the big investors
behind the "trade" (You don>t get normal Somali fishermen come pirates
operating that far away from home waters.. They need infrastructure
(planning, at sea support -- mother ships etc)..

Get the big operators out of the equation and you get back to the
regular tolerable level of piracy... (30 ships so far this year all
paying over $1million ransom.. That>s a lot of money... a lot more than
the Somalis can spend...

guy · Guest

On 18 Nov, 04:22, Dennis <tsalagi18NOS...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[quote] So far the shipping lines just pay ransom to the Somali pirates
because it>s the cheapest thing to do, but it>s a traditional duty of
navies to suppress piracy. So far as I know, they still have the ship with
Ukrainian tanks, and they just seized a supertanker on the high seas. It
keeps getting worse.

What would be the best way to supress the pirates operating out of
Somalia? Have ships sail in convoys, escorted by a naval vessel?
Continual air patrols? Armed naval crews on merchant ships? Or try to
wipe out pirate bases?

Don>t Punt! :-) What would be the right way?

Dennis
[/quote]
Answering with a couple of questions I am afraid:-
1- do the pirates operate over the whole length of the Somali
coastline or just sections of it?
2- how far out to sea do they operate?

Dependent on the answer to 2 above could the merchant ships simply
operate further out to sea, out of range or reducing the time the
pirates have to operate. Is this a fuel cost issue?

Guy

hcobb · Guest

On Nov 18, 1:00 am, guy <guyswetten...@googlemail.com> wrote:
[quote]2- how far out to sea do they operate?
[/quote]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7734733.stm
The vessel was captured in what the navy called an "unprecedented"
attack 450 nautical miles (830km) off the Kenyan coast on Saturday.

Jack Linthicum · Guest

On Nov 18, 8:17 am, hcobb <henry.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 18, 1:00 am, guy <guyswetten...@googlemail.com> wrote:

2- how far out to sea do they operate?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7734733.stm
The vessel was captured in what the navy called an "unprecedented"
attack 450 nautical miles (830km) off the Kenyan coast on Saturday.
[/quote]
Was that 450 miles off the Kenya coast or 450 miles from Mombasa? I
have seen "south" and "east", suggesting no one in the press knows.

Jack Linthicum · Guest

On Nov 18, 8:32 am, Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
[quote]On Nov 18, 8:17 am, hcobb <henry.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Nov 18, 1:00 am, guy <guyswetten...@googlemail.com> wrote:

2- how far out to sea do they operate?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7734733.stm
The vessel was captured in what the navy called an "unprecedented"
attack 450 nautical miles (830km) off the Kenyan coast on Saturday.

Was that 450 miles off the Kenya coast or 450 miles from Mombasa? I
have seen "south" and "east", suggesting no one in the press knows.
[/quote]
more on events

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/world/africa/19pirate.html?hp

george · Guest

On Nov 19, 5:01 am, "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[quote]"Dennis" <tsalagi18NOS...@hotmail.com> wrote ...

Have ships sail in convoys, escorted by a naval vessel?

Hugely expensive. Real money costs & great costs in
efficiencies (note even in WWII, when ships were being
totally lost, there were often great delays in switching to
convoy & escort system - & many areas never was done).
[/quote]
Since the various navies of the world are on site why would convoy
protection be expensive?
And shipping companies insurance cover/ransom payments/ship losses are
already costing millions.

Sink or destroy every vessel on that coast.
No ship no pirates.
End of problem

Fred J. McCall · Guest

"Matt Wiser" <MattWiser_88@yahoo.com> wrote:
:
:Concur. And sink any known or suspected pirate small craft and mother ship
:on sight.
:

'Suspected'? Yeah, just kill all the suspects. You>ll get a lot of
innocents that way, but they>re only blacks, right?

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

Fred J. McCall · Guest

hcobb <henry.cobb@gmail.com> wrote:
:
:Bush should have waited until Afghanistan was secure then moved onto
:Somalia, leaving Iraq to "wither on the vine."
:

Except Iraq wasn>t going to do that. Iraq was about to be let out of
the box by France and Russia...

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it>s such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

a425couple · Guest

"Dennis" <tsalagi18NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote ...
[quote]So far the shipping lines just pay ransom to the Somali pirates
because it>s the cheapest thing to do, but it>s a traditional duty of
navies to suppress piracy. So far as I know, they still have the ship
with
Ukrainian tanks, and they just seized a supertanker on the high seas. It
keeps getting worse.
What would be the best way to supress the pirates operating out of
Somalia? Have ships sail in convoys, escorted by a naval vessel?
Continual air patrols? Armed naval crews on merchant ships?
Or try to wipe out pirate bases?
Don>t Punt! :-) What would be the right way?
[/quote]
IMHO, all above are do-able, but quite expensive.

[quote]Have ships sail in convoys, escorted by a naval vessel?
Hugely expensive. Real money costs & great costs in[/quote]
efficiencies (note even in WWII, when ships were being
totally lost, there were often great delays in switching to
convoy & escort system - & many areas never was done).

[quote]Armed naval crews on merchant ships?
That could be done, and I think is being done[/quote]
in various degrees by some.
There are 'companies' that are willing to provide
that service
(what do we think it would take to cover 90%
of threats ?
- a 4 man unit with a .50 cal with 4 spindels
- previously welded on in good locations ??)

[quote]Continual air patrols?
Again, hugely expensive via traditional methods.[/quote]
(below - I>ll try one possible way)

[quote]Or try to wipe out pirate bases?
Huge expense - especially in the political[/quote]
and PR areas.
Collateral deaths would get greatly blown
up in the press.
Both national and international "blame game".

As I>m reading it, the main problems are there are
a very large numbers of these ships
(read "tempting & lucrative targets") in the large
target area, owned by many separate owners,
and vast majority are not hit by pirates.

(And I>ll mostly skip for now the very
irritating concern, that some 'organizations'
may be paying "protection money" to not
be 'hit'. Hmmm - that>s counterproductive!!!)

IMHO, the main problem is that these attacks
are seen by most 'owners' as currently at the
level of being an "irritant", but not at level of
being a "threat to status quo". So spread out
in area and random in time.

(Kind of a ridiculous comparison, but I think
it not totally ridiculous, ,
What would we do if
In USA, unknown suspects were throwing
rocks from overpasses at cars and trucks
between New York and Miami?
In UK, same, between Plymouth, London,
& Glasgow?)

No one country or organization feels the
obligation & duty to counter the threat.

If everyone really decided to unite and chose
to counter,
I>d suggest a unified communications system,
with a command center authorized to use force
against what a merchant ship has declared to be
threat to them, & use of
"The MQ-1 Predator is an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV)
which the United States Air Force describes as a
MALE (medium-altitude, long-endurance) UAV system.
It can serve in a reconnaissance role and
fire two AGM-114 Hellfire missiles."
Even with 2 (or 4) Predators dedicated,
it certainly would not be in position to respond
to every attack.
But, seems to me, given odds and probabilities,
someone would roll "snake-eyes".
I>d tend to think a Hellfire could do quite a job
on a speedboat and all within.
Heck, maybe even get lucky and go 2 for 2!

Many suspects, and only a few would be terminated.
But, I think over time, the boats & pirates going out
and never seen again, would have a "decreasing effect".

Uhh, but perhaps, the .50 cal. plan almost as
effective?? (and a lot cheaper!!)

[quote]Don>t Punt! :-)
OK, I put up something, certainly should get[/quote]
countered!


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