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Marc Verhaegen · Guest

Pakicetidae are found in Early Eocene stream deposits of N-Pakistan. While
their skeletons were originally described as adapted for running (Thewissen
et al.2001), subsequent detailed analysis of the postcrania noted systemic
hyperostosis, a condition incompatible with safe, energetically efficient
cursoriality (Madar 2007).

Rick Wagler · Guest

"Marc Verhaegen" <m_verhaegen@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:C49CDAF6.1302C%m_verhaegen@skynet.be...
[quote]Pakicetidae are found in Early Eocene stream deposits of N-Pakistan. While
their skeletons were originally described as adapted for running
(Thewissen
et al.2001), subsequent detailed analysis of the postcrania noted systemic
hyperostosis, a condition incompatible with safe, energetically efficient
cursoriality (Madar 2007).

Sigh.... There you go again. The sparks flying out of[/quote]
your ears should be a cause for concern.

Rick Wagler

Marc Verhaegen · Guest

Sigh.... There you go again. The sparks flying out of your ears should be a
cause for concern.
You>re stupid stupid stupid, Wagler, too stupid even to give us 1 little
argument against parttime collection of HSIs by H.erectus in shallow water.
Just google "hard-shelled invertebrates Shabel", my boy.

[quote]Pakicetidae are found in Early Eocene stream deposits of N-Pakistan. While
their skeletons were originally described as adapted for running
(Thewissen
et al.2001), subsequent detailed analysis of the postcrania noted systemic
hyperostosis, a condition incompatible with safe, energetically efficient
cursoriality (Madar 2007).[/quote]

Lee Olsen · Guest

On Jul 11, 3:15 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:

[quote]You>re stupid stupid stupid,
[/quote]

Name calling, only argument you ever had.

jerry warner · Guest

Rick Wagler wrote:

[quote]"Marc Verhaegen" <m_verhaegen@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:C49CDAF6.1302C%m_verhaegen@skynet.be...
Pakicetidae are found in Early Eocene stream deposits of N-Pakistan. While
their skeletons were originally described as adapted for running
(Thewissen
et al.2001), subsequent detailed analysis of the postcrania noted systemic
hyperostosis, a condition incompatible with safe, energetically efficient
cursoriality (Madar 2007).

Sigh.... There you go again. The sparks flying out of
your ears should be a cause for concern.

Rick Wagler
[/quote]
passive agressive - paranoid schizophrenia I would think

Paul Crowley · Guest

"Lee Olsen" <paleocity@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ffe1606b-4ab6-4dc2-a784-49f6bf78cc51@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 11, 3:15 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:

[quote]You>re stupid stupid stupid,

Name calling, only argument you ever had.
[/quote]
I put Olsen (along with Verhaegen)
in my kill-file about 2 years ago
when his Yah-Boo exchange with
Verhaegen had become tedious.

I took him out a couple of hours ago,
assuming that was long over.

What a mistake! . . . right back in.

Paul,

Marc Verhaegen · Guest

[quote]You>re stupid stupid stupid,

Name calling, only argument you ever had.
[/quote]
unfortunate for you, no name calling...

Lee Olsen · Guest

On Jul 13, 7:17 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:

[quote]
unfortunate for you,[/quote]

Here is what real scientists have to say:

Dennis M. Bramble & Daniel E. Lieberman

Abstract
"Striding bipedalism is a key derived behaviour of hominids that
possibly originated soon after the divergence of the chimpanzee and
human lineages. Although bipedal gaits include walking and running,
running is generally considered to have played no major role in human
evolution because humans, like apes, are poor sprinters compared to
most quadrupeds. Here we assess how well humans perform at sustained
long-distance running, and review the physiological and anatomical
bases of endurance running capabilities in humans and other mammals.
Judged by several criteria, humans perform remarkably well at
endurance running, thanks to a diverse array of features, many of
which leave traces in the skeleton. The fossil evidence of these
features suggests that endurance running is a derived capability of
the genus Homo, originating about 2 million years ago, and may have
been instrumental in the evolution of the human body form."

Marc Verhaegen · Guest

[quote]unfortunate for you,
Here is what real scientists have to say:
[/quote]

Tobias 1995 ³We were all profoundly and unutterably wrong! Š All the
former savannah supporters (including myself) must now swallow our earlier
words Š²
Wood 1996 ³the Œsavannah¹ hypothesis of human origins, in which the
cooling begat the savannah and the savannah begat humanity, is now
discredited²
Stringer 1997 ³One of the strong points about the aquatic theory is in
explaining the origin of bipedality. If our ancestors did go into the water,
that would forced them to walk upright Š²
Tobias 1998 ³Bamford identified fossil vines or lianas of Dichapetalum
in the same Member 4: such vines hang from forest trees and would not be
expected in open savannah. The team at Makapansgat found floral and faunal
evidence that the layers containing Australopithecus reflected forest or
forest margin conditions. From Hadar, in Ethiopia, where ŒLucy¹ was found,
and from Aramis in Ethiopia, where Tim White¹s team found Ardipithecus
ramidus Š well-wooded and even forested conditions were inferred from the
fauna accompanying the hominid fossils. All the fossil evidence adds up to
the small-brained, bipedal hominids of four to 2.5 Ma having lived in a
woodland or forest niche, not savannah.² ³Š if ever our earliest ancestors
were savannah dwellers, we must have been the worst, the most profligate
urinators there²
Stringer 2001 ³In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion (as observed in other normally quadrupedal
primates). I have never said that this must have been the forcing mechanism
in hominids, but I do consider it plausible. As for coastal colonisation, I
argued in my Nature News & Views last year that this was an event in the
late Pleistocene that may have facilitated the spread of modern humans.²
Groves & Cameron 2004 ³Nor can we exclude the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis.
Elaine Morgan has long argued that many aspects of human anatomy are best
explained as a legacy of a semiaquatic phase in the proto-human trajectory,
and this includes upright posture to cope with increased water depth as our
ancestors foraged farther and further from the lake or seashore.²
Wrangham 2005 ³Here I follow the conventional assumption that hominins
began in the savanna.² ³Š the composition of the Okavango as a network of
islands could favor the evolution of bipedalism. For those who envisage
bipedalism as facilitated by the need to traverse or exploit aquatic
environments, an inland delta that generates low islands termitogenically or
hydrodynamically offers rich scenarios.²
Alemseged 2006 ³I believe we should just put the savannah theory aside.
I think they basically became biped while they were living in a wooded,
covered environment Š²
Thorpe et al. 2007 ³Š early hominins occupied woodland environments, not
open or even bush-savannah environments (such as sites including Allia Bay,
Aramis, Assa Issie and now Laetoli) ... they retained long grasping
forelimbs, which are more obviously relevant in an arboreal contextŠ²

spiznet · Guest

On Jul 14, 4:59 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
[quote] unfortunate for you,
Here is what real scientists have to say:

Tobias 1995 ³We were all profoundly and unutterably wrong! Š All the
former savannah supporters (including myself) must now swallow our earlier
words Š²
Wood 1996 ³the Œsavannah¹ hypothesis of human origins, in which the
cooling begat the savannah and the savannah begat humanity, is now
discredited²
Stringer 1997 ³One of the strong points about the aquatic theory is in
explaining the origin of bipedality. If our ancestors did go into the water,
that would forced them to walk upright Š²
Tobias 1998 ³Bamford identified fossil vines or lianas of Dichapetalum
in the same Member 4: such vines hang from forest trees and would not be
expected in open savannah. The team at Makapansgat found floral and faunal
evidence that the layers containing Australopithecus reflected forest or
forest margin conditions. From Hadar, in Ethiopia, where ŒLucy¹ was found,
and from Aramis in Ethiopia, where Tim White¹s team found Ardipithecus
ramidus Š well-wooded and even forested conditions were inferred from the
fauna accompanying the hominid fossils. All the fossil evidence adds up to
the small-brained, bipedal hominids of four to 2.5 Ma having lived in a
woodland or forest niche, not savannah.² ³Š if ever our earliest ancestors
were savannah dwellers, we must have been the worst, the most profligate
urinators there²
Stringer 2001 ³In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion (as observed in other normally quadrupedal
primates). I have never said that this must have been the forcing mechanism
in hominids, but I do consider it plausible. As for coastal colonisation, I
argued in my Nature News & Views last year that this was an event in the
late Pleistocene that may have facilitated the spread of modern humans.²
Groves & Cameron 2004 ³Nor can we exclude the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis.
Elaine Morgan has long argued that many aspects of human anatomy are best
explained as a legacy of a semiaquatic phase in the proto-human trajectory,
and this includes upright posture to cope with increased water depth as our
ancestors foraged farther and further from the lake or seashore.²
Wrangham 2005 ³Here I follow the conventional assumption that hominins
began in the savanna.² ³Š the composition of the Okavango as a network of
islands could favor the evolution of bipedalism. For those who envisage
bipedalism as facilitated by the need to traverse or exploit aquatic
environments, an inland delta that generates low islands termitogenically or
hydrodynamically offers rich scenarios.²
Alemseged 2006 ³I believe we should just put the savannah theory aside.
I think they basically became biped while they were living in a wooded,
covered environment Š²
Thorpe et al. 2007 ³Š early hominins occupied woodland environments, not
open or even bush-savannah environments (such as sites including Allia Bay,
Aramis, Assa Issie and now Laetoli) ... they retained long grasping
forelimbs, which are more obviously relevant in an arboreal contextŠ²
[/quote]
Same Tobias:
" I did not have sex with that theory!!"
2001

Lee Olsen · Guest

On Jul 14, 1:59 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
[quote] unfortunate for you,
Here is what real scientists have to say:

Tobias 1995 ³We were all profoundly and unutterably wrong! Š All the
former savannah supporters (including myself) must now swallow our earlier
words Š²
[/quote]

Tobias 1995?? Isn>t that the same guy who thinks lions made the tools
on the savanna?

Try something newer, the Savanna Theory is better than ever:
Holger Preuschoft
Mechanisms for the acquisition of habitual bipedality:
are there biomechanical reasons for the acquisition of
upright bipedal posture?
J. Anat. 204 pp363–384

"Once bipedality has been acquired, development of typical human
morphology can readily be explained as adaptations for energy saving
over long distances. A paper in this volume
shows that load-carrying ability was enhanced from australopithecines
to Homo ergaster
(early African H. erectus),supporting an earlier proposition that load-
carrying was an essential factor in human evolution."

"The Turkana boy tells us that early H. erectus, besides being a tall
biped,
had arms and legs proportioned like a modern human>s. For his height,
his
arms were not as long as those of Lucy, Lucy>s Child or so far as we
know,
any other prior hominid. He lacked the apish details that, in earlier
bipeds,
suggest occasional tree climbing. The legs and hip bones of Homo
erectus
were buttressed by tremendous thickness and bulges, which denotes a
body geared toward endurance walking and running. An exclusive pact
had
been made with the terrestrial realm, and the boy>s legs were
equipped to
cover ground in strides protracted in both length and hours."
Richard Potts from Humanity>s Descent

W.-J. Wang and R. H. Crompton 2004
The role of load-carrying in the evolution of modern body
proportions
J. Anat. 204 pp417–430

"Our hypothesis
that there is a direct relationship between the acquisition
of modern postcranial proportions and increased
ranging/transport distances at around 1.8–1.5 Ma appears
to be borne out, although other selective factors, such
as thermoregulatory influences (see Ruff, 1991; Wheeler,
1992) and adaptations for throwing (see Dunsworth
et al. 2003), are likely to have played an important
(although probably interdependent) role."

<snip rest of irrelevant foolishness>

Marc Verhaegen · Guest

[quote]Â unfortunate for you,
Here is what real scientists have to say:

Â Tobias 1995 Â Â Â³We were all profoundly and unutterably wrong! Å All the
former savannah supporters (including myself) must now swallow our earlier
words Å Â² Â
Â Wood 1996 Â Â³the Å’savannahÂ¹ hypothesis of human origins, in which the
cooling begat the savannah and the savannah begat humanity, is now
discreditedÂ² Â
Â Stringer 1997 Â Â³One of the strong points about the aquatic theory is in
explaining the origin of bipedality. If our ancestors did go into the water,
that would forced them to walk upright Å Â²
Â Tobias 1998 Â Â³Bamford identified fossil vines or lianas of Dichapetalum
in the same Member 4: such vines hang from forest trees and would not be
expected in open savannah. The team at Makapansgat found floral and faunal
evidence that the layers containing Australopithecus reflected forest or
forest margin conditions. From Hadar, in Ethiopia, where Å’LucyÂ¹ was found,
and from Aramis in Ethiopia, where Tim WhiteÂ¹s team found Ardipithecus
ramidus Å well-wooded and even forested conditions were inferred from the
fauna accompanying the hominid fossils. All the fossil evidence adds up to
the small-brained, bipedal hominids of four to 2.5 Ma having lived in a
woodland or forest niche, not savannah.Â² Â Â³Å if ever our earliest ancestors
were savannah dwellers, we must have been the worst, the most profligate
urinators thereÂ² Â
Â Stringer 2001 Â Â Â³In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion (as observed in other normally quadrupedal
primates). I have never said that this must have been the forcing mechanism
in hominids, but I do consider it plausible. As for coastal colonisation, I
argued in my Nature News & Views last year that this was an event in the
late Pleistocene that may have facilitated the spread of modern humans.Â²
Â Groves & Cameron 2004 Â Â³Nor can we exclude the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis.
Elaine Morgan has long argued that many aspects of human anatomy are best
explained as a legacy of a semiaquatic phase in the proto-human trajectory,
and this includes upright posture to cope with increased water depth as our
ancestors foraged farther and further from the lake or seashore.Â²
Â Wrangham 2005 Â Â³Here I follow the conventional assumption that hominins
began in the savanna.Â² Â Â³Å the composition of the Okavango as a network of
islands could favor the evolution of bipedalism. For those who envisage
bipedalism as facilitated by the need to traverse or exploit aquatic
environments, an inland delta that generates low islands termitogenically or
hydrodynamically offers rich scenarios.Â²
Â Alemseged 2006 Â Â³I believe we should just put the savannah theory aside.
I think they basically became biped while they were living in a wooded,
covered environment Å Â²
Â Thorpe et al. 2007 Â Â³Å early hominins occupied woodland environments, not
open or even bush-savannah environments (such as sites including Allia Bay,
Aramis, Assa Issie and now Laetoli) ... they retained long grasping
forelimbs, which are more obviously relevant in an arboreal contextÅ Â² Â Â Â Â
[/quote]

the "answer" of the' savanna fools:
[quote]Same Tobias:
" I did not have sex with that theory!!"
2001
[/quote]
:-DDD

Marc Verhaegen · Guest

Sigh. Savanna Fool has never heard of professor Tobias:

[quote]Â Tobias 1995 Â Â Â³We were all profoundly and unutterably wrong! Å All the
former savannah supporters (including myself) must now swallow our earlier
words Å Â² Â

Tobias 1995?? Isn>t that the same guy who thinks lions made the tools
on the savanna?[/quote]

Lee Olsen · Guest

http://www.chinafrontier.com/images/sankalahari1a.jpg

Get a life, wetloon.

On Jul 14, 4:57 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:

[quote]Sigh. Savanna Fool has never heard of professor Tobias:

Tobias 1995 ³We were all profoundly and unutterably wrong! Š All the
former savannah supporters (including myself) must now swallow our earlier
words Š²
Tobias 1995?? Isn>t that the same guy who thinks lions made the tools
on the savanna?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -[/quote]

Lee Olsen · Guest

On Jul 15, 1:04 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
[quote]Some SF believes that because perhaps 1 in a million people live in dry
regions our ancestors must have lived there :-D
[/quote]
Wetloons must think someone besides our ancestors left the stone tools
on
the savanna millions of years ago without living there.

Why do you continue to make a fool of yourself? You live in complete
denial of hard,
proven evidence. You are mentally ill, get some help.

[quote]

http://www.chinafrontier.com/images/sankalahari1a.jpg
Get a life, wetloon.

On Jul 14, 4:57 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:

Sigh. Savanna Fool has never heard of professor Tobias:

Tobias 1995 ³We were all profoundly and unutterably wrong! Š All the
former savannah supporters (including myself) must now swallow our earlier
words Š²
Tobias 1995?? Isn>t that the same guy who thinks lions made the tools
on the savanna?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -[/quote]


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