Science and Technology news... :: View topic - Gas Hits $ 5.98 in Democrap Cities! LOL !

freedomtofascism.com · Guest

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 06:59:55 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

[quote]Let us say that the gloom and doomers
[/quote]

What precisely is so gloomy and doomy about the Earth being incinerated by
the Sun?

Just because the Earth is ending doesn>t mean YOU have to.

Get busy.

freedomtofascism.com · Guest

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:01:07 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

[quote]
"freedomtofascism.com >>" <<<truth@r.us> wrote in message
news:7c36j4lptjmo44v1d63qsfp5rl3ajaupok@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:11:58 -0500, freedomtofascism.com <<<truth@r.us
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:30:43 -0500, "HVAC" <harlowcampbell@gmail.com
wrote:

"*_//!!_//!!*" <*TheHolyGhost*@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:49328e15$1_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...

How on God>s Earth do people think they>re going to resolve anything by
going around
shooting everybody up or to pieces. They only end up dead themselves.
Save yourself
the trouble...Idiots!

First of all, you are psychologically unstable. I hope that you
understand
that.
I mean really, really unstable. No joke. But you>ve been told that
before,
haven>t you?

Killing the world>s population in order to support a handful of parasites
and their fiat money scam is definitely mentally unstable. Especially
considering they *also* killed any scientific advancement which would
improve the quality of life for the human race, ie free energy.

It is called survival of the fittest.....
[/quote]
Fit for what?

Guest

NeoLibertarian wrote:
[quote]Raymond wrote:
On Dec 1, 5:49 pm, mordacpreven...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Dec 1, 11:16 am, "W.B. Yeats" <slipuva...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Sorry, but it>s the Great Bush Depression, and it won>t end for at
least 5 years.
Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman said it won>t be as bad as
the great depression, but it will seem like it.

RE: Sorry, but it>s the Great Bush Depression, and it won>t end for at
least 5 years.

Is the Bush administration responsible for the current economic melt
down? You betcha.

WASHINGTON ï¿½ The Bush administration backed off proposed crackdowns on
no-money-down, interest-only mortgages years before the economy
collapsed, buckling to pressure from some of the same banks that have
now failed. It ignored remarkably prescient warnings that foretold the
financial meltdown, according to an Associated Press review of
regulatory documents.

Looks that way, doesn>t it.

Only to the clueless idiots wearing their pitiful agendas on their sleeves.
[/quote]
How many tens of thousands did you loose under your right-wing
meddling government you right-wing-trash fucking cocksucker.

I have family that work high end retail, you know drop a couple, well
Sarah Palins expensive wardrobe would come from there and the other
stores. Everybody you speak with are feeling the pain of what you Bush
idiots caused.
and still support. BURDENS TO THE WAY AND QUALITY OF LIFE WE WOULD
LIKE TO STRIVE FOR

[quote]--
Neolibertarian

"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them."
---Ronald Reagan
[/quote]
Gee a government that cannot solve problems, is that your proactive
code for we are not capable of accepting blame cause it>s government,
not our fault?

freedomtofascism.com · Guest

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 06:52:59 -0500, freedomtofascism.com <<<truth@r.us>>>
wrote:

[quote]On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 06:37:00 -0800, Thuss@nospam.net wrote:

Forceps and vacuum, uranium or gunpowder...please explain the
difference.

Investment banks aren>t funding abortion.
[/quote]
<crickets>

Military Men Are Dumb, Stupid Animals
author: doubleplusgood
many people have asked about the origin of a quote from Henry Kissinger
regarding military men, which came from Woodward and Bernstein>s "The Final
Days" (1976). Here is the complete paragraph--and for context, the one
following--excerpted from pages 194-195 of the second Touchstone paperback
edition (1994).

Alexander Haig, newly appointed White House chief of staff, greets newsmen
in H. R. Haldeman>s former office on May 4, 1973. (UPI / Bettmann)
====================

In their December 1975 Foreword to "The Final Days", Bob Woodward and Carl
Bernstein state that the book is based on interviews and re-interviews with
394 people, concentrating on the last 100 days of Nixon>s administration.
None of the quotes or information in the book is individually footnoted or
referenced--they do mention that "we did not accord equal weight to all
sources," and that "nothing in this book has been reconstructed without
accounts from at least two people."

Authors Woodward and Bernstein also note that "The Final Days" is "the work
of four people. Scott Armstrong, a former Senate Watergate Committee
investigator, and Al Kamen, a free-lance writer/researcher, assisted us full
time in the reporting, research and some of the writing."

Kissinger>s quote regarding miltary men comes from Chapter 14, which
extensively discusses Al Haig, Kissinger and other Nixon staff advisors'
negotiations and differences over national security issues during the
1969-1974 period.

The exact, direct quote marks begin with the word 'dumb' and terminate after
the word 'used'.

Here is the FULL KISSINGER QUOTE verbatim from the bottom two lines of page
194 to line 14 of page 195:

====================
[paragraph]
In Haig>s presence, Kissinger referred pointedly to military men as "dumb,
stupid animals to be used" as pawns for foreign policy. Kissinger often took
up a post outside the doorway to Haig>s office and dressed him down in front
of the secretaries for alleged acts of incompetence with which Haig was not
even remotely involved. Once when the Air Force was authorized to resume
bombing of North Vietnam, the planes did not fly on certain days because of
bad weather. Kissinger assailed Haig. He complained bitterly that the
generals had been screamin for the limits to be taken off but that now their
pilots were afraid to go up in a little fog. The country needed generals who
could win battles, Kissinger said, not good briefers like Haig.

[paragraph]
On another occasion, when Haig was leaving for a trip to Cambodia to meet
with Premier Lon Nol, Kissinger escorted him to a staff car, where reporters
and a retinue of aides waited. As Haig bent to get into the automobile,
Kissinger stopped him and began polishing the single star on his shoulder.
"Al, if you>re a good boy, I>ll get you another one," he said.
====================

SOURCE:

Bob Woodward & Carl Bernstein
The Final Days
second Touchstone paperback edition (1994)
Chapter 14, pp. 194-195

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266114.shtml

freedomtofascism.com · Guest

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:36:48 -0500, freedomtofascism.com <<<truth@r.us>>>
wrote:

[quote]On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 06:52:59 -0500, freedomtofascism.com <<<truth@r.us
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 06:37:00 -0800, Thuss@nospam.net wrote:

Forceps and vacuum, uranium or gunpowder...please explain the
difference.

Investment banks aren>t funding abortion.

crickets

Military Men Are Dumb, Stupid Animals
author: doubleplusgood
many people have asked about the origin of a quote from Henry Kissinger
regarding military men, which came from Woodward and Bernstein>s "The Final
Days" (1976). Here is the complete paragraph--and for context, the one
following--excerpted from pages 194-195 of the second Touchstone paperback
edition (1994).

Alexander Haig, newly appointed White House chief of staff, greets newsmen
in H. R. Haldeman>s former office on May 4, 1973. (UPI / Bettmann)
====================

In their December 1975 Foreword to "The Final Days", Bob Woodward and Carl
Bernstein state that the book is based on interviews and re-interviews with
394 people, concentrating on the last 100 days of Nixon>s administration.
None of the quotes or information in the book is individually footnoted or
referenced--they do mention that "we did not accord equal weight to all
sources," and that "nothing in this book has been reconstructed without
accounts from at least two people."

Authors Woodward and Bernstein also note that "The Final Days" is "the work
of four people. Scott Armstrong, a former Senate Watergate Committee
investigator, and Al Kamen, a free-lance writer/researcher, assisted us full
time in the reporting, research and some of the writing."

Kissinger>s quote regarding miltary men comes from Chapter 14, which
extensively discusses Al Haig, Kissinger and other Nixon staff advisors'
negotiations and differences over national security issues during the
1969-1974 period.

The exact, direct quote marks begin with the word 'dumb' and terminate after
the word 'used'.

Here is the FULL KISSINGER QUOTE verbatim from the bottom two lines of page
194 to line 14 of page 195:

====================
[paragraph]
In Haig>s presence, Kissinger referred pointedly to military men as "dumb,
stupid animals to be used" as pawns for foreign policy. Kissinger often took
up a post outside the doorway to Haig>s office and dressed him down in front
of the secretaries for alleged acts of incompetence with which Haig was not
even remotely involved. Once when the Air Force was authorized to resume
bombing of North Vietnam, the planes did not fly on certain days because of
bad weather. Kissinger assailed Haig. He complained bitterly that the
generals had been screamin for the limits to be taken off but that now their
pilots were afraid to go up in a little fog. The country needed generals who
could win battles, Kissinger said, not good briefers like Haig.

[paragraph]
On another occasion, when Haig was leaving for a trip to Cambodia to meet
with Premier Lon Nol, Kissinger escorted him to a staff car, where reporters
and a retinue of aides waited. As Haig bent to get into the automobile,
Kissinger stopped him and began polishing the single star on his shoulder.
"Al, if you>re a good boy, I>ll get you another one," he said.
====================

SOURCE:

Bob Woodward & Carl Bernstein
The Final Days
second Touchstone paperback edition (1994)
Chapter 14, pp. 194-195

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266114.shtml
[/quote]
<crickets>

freedomtofascism.com · Guest

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:26:47 -0500, freedomtofascism.com <<<truth@r.us>>>
wrote:

[quote]On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:01:07 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

"freedomtofascism.com >>" <<<truth@r.us> wrote in message
news:7c36j4lptjmo44v1d63qsfp5rl3ajaupok@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:11:58 -0500, freedomtofascism.com <<<truth@r.us
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:30:43 -0500, "HVAC" <harlowcampbell@gmail.com
wrote:

"*_//!!_//!!*" <*TheHolyGhost*@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:49328e15$1_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...

How on God>s Earth do people think they>re going to resolve anything by
going around
shooting everybody up or to pieces. They only end up dead themselves.
Save yourself
the trouble...Idiots!

First of all, you are psychologically unstable. I hope that you
understand
that.
I mean really, really unstable. No joke. But you>ve been told that
before,
haven>t you?

Killing the world>s population in order to support a handful of parasites
and their fiat money scam is definitely mentally unstable. Especially
considering they *also* killed any scientific advancement which would
improve the quality of life for the human race, ie free energy.

It is called survival of the fittest.....

Fit for what?
[/quote]
<crickets>

freedomtofascism.com · Guest

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:26:12 -0500, freedomtofascism.com <<<truth@r.us>>>
wrote:

[quote]On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 06:59:55 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

Let us say that the gloom and doomers

What precisely is so gloomy and doomy about the Earth being incinerated by
the Sun?

Just because the Earth is ending doesn>t mean YOU have to.

Get busy.
[/quote]
<crickets>

John Galt · Guest

Video61@tcq.net wrote:
[quote]On Dec 1, 9:19 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
On Nov 28, 6:57 pm, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
On Nov 28, 1:51 pm, Stan de SD <StanD...@gmail.com> wrote:
Note the considerable pressure for the auto industry bailout from the
unions. The fact that their pension liabilities are crippling the US
automaker>s ability to compete doesn>t seem to register any
acknowledgement of culpability in the current debacle. They will just
line of for their share of the bailot loot. You can thank BOTH major
political parties for enabling the entitlement mentality among the
population at large... :O|
how can one person be so stupid, its almost impossible not to see
that this is hitting all car makers world wide.
True, but you>re ignoring SCOPE:
Toyota: Forward estimates $3.47 per share
Honda: Forward estimates $2.24 per share
Nissan: Forward estimates $.52 per share
Daimler: Forward estimates $4.74 per share
Tata Motors: Forward estimates $1.23 per share
General Motors: Forward estimates $17.27 LOSS per share
Ford: Forward estimates $2.35 LOSS per share
JG
tsk tsk, don>t count them chickens yet. it looks like there is going
to be rain today on someones parade:)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aAA6mmucumTA
Toyota, Nissan Lead Biggest Drop in Japan Car Sales in 34 Years
By Makiko Kitamura
Dec. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp. and Nissan Motor Co. led the
biggest drop Japan>s auto sales in 34 years as the country>s recession
cut wages.
Sales of cars, trucks and buses, excluding minicars, fell 27 percent
to 215,783 vehicles in November, the Tokyo-based Japan Automobile
Dealers Association said in a statement today. Toyota Motor Corp.,
Japan>s largest automaker, sold 106,342 vehicles excluding the Lexus
brand, down 28 percent. Sales at Nissan Motor Co., the country>s third-
biggest, fell 30 percent to 30,134.
Japan>s automakers have slashed their earnings forecasts for this
fiscal year as declining wages and tight credit curb consumer
spending. Wages in the world>s second-largest economy dropped for the
first time this year in October as companies cut overtime payments by
the most in more than six years.
``If income and wealth don>t rise, consumption won>t either,'' said
Mitsuo Shimizu, a Tokyo-based analyst at Cosmo Securities Co. ``Large
purchases like cars are particularly vulnerable.''
Prime Minister Taro Aso announced a 5 trillion yen ($52.5 billion)
stimulus package in October to boost consumer spending and the Bank of
Japan cut the benchmark rate to 0.3 percent to encourage lending.
``The financial crisis is exacerbating already low consumer
sentiment,'' JADA said in a statement, adding that car sales for the
year may be the lowest since 1974.
Toyota shares lost 1.8 percent to 2,945 yen at the close of trading in
Tokyo. Nissan slumped 2.8 percent and Honda Motor Co. declined 2.9
percent.
Firing Workers
Honda>s sales dropped 22 percent to 29,448 vehicles last month. Mazda
Motor Corp.'s fell 33 percent to 9,699 vehicles.
Japanese companies plan to fire about 30,000 temporary and part-time
workers before the end of the business year in March, the Labor
Ministry said last week. Toyota will cut its domestic temporary
workforce by 3,000 jobs, or 50 percent, by the end of March.
Monthly wages, including overtime and bonuses, fell 0.1 percent to
274,751 yen ($2,876) from a year earlier, the Labor Ministry said in
Tokyo today.
Credit is also tightening. Three-month commercial-paper rates for
Japanese companies with the highest credit rankings were at 1.2
percent, compared with a 0.49 percent yield on similar-duration
government bills, according to Tokyo Tanshi Co.
The drop in domestic demand echoes a sales slump in the U.S., the most
profitable market for Japan>s carmakers. In October, Toyota>s sales in
the world>s largest car market dropped 23 percent. Nissan>s plunged 33
percent and Honda has a 25 percent drop.
To contact the reporter on this story: Makiko Kitamura in Tokyo at
mkitamu...@bloomberg.net.
Last Updated: December 1, 2008 01:02 EST
OBTW, here is a very important statement in the above article, and it
backs me to the hilt. if you do not understand it, get back to me, and
i will try to explain it to you again:)
``If income and wealth don>t rise, consumption won>t either,"
Sounds pretty obvious to me. It>s generally hard to buy things without
money, and we>re definitely going into a cycle where income and wealth
will collapse to a sustainable level, and production will have to adapt
to a "new normal."

JG

snicker, there is that word "DEMAND" again.
[/quote]
Why is that funny?

JG

[quote]
South Korean car makers are cutting output in response to the drop in
demand.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aLL.megKH54g&refer=home

Hyundai, Kia Fall After Korean Carmakers' Sales Slump (Update1)

By Seonjin Cha

Dec. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Hyundai Motor Co. and Kia Motors Corp. South
Korea>s two-largest automakers, fell in Seoul trading after
industrywide domestic sales slumped to the lowest in more than three
years in November.
Hyundai fell as much as 8.3 percent to 37,600 won and traded 6.6
percent lower at 38,300 won as of 9:16 a.m. in Seoul trading, compared
with Kospi index>s 4.1 percent decline. Kia, an affiliate of Hyundai,
dropped 7.7 percent to 6,250 won.
Hyundai, Kia and three other South Korean automakers sold 74,217
vehicles domestically last month, the lowest monthly tally since
February 2005, as banks reduced car loans. Including exports, November
sales at the five carmakers declined 8.6 percent from a year earlier,
according to companies' data.
``It>s not going to get any better,'' Choi Dae Sik, a Seoul-based
analyst at HI Investment & Securities Co. wrote in a report today.
``Domestic sales next year will likely fall to the lowest since the
1998 Asian financial crisis and exports may also fall further.''
South Korean carmakers are cutting output in response to the drop in
demand. Hyundai will slash production by 20,000 vehicles this month,
about 13 percent of its monthly domestic output, company spokesman
Jake Jang said yesterday.
Renault Samsung Motors Co., a South Korean unit of Renault SA, will
shut down its plant for five working days from Dec. 24 for maintenance
work. Ssangyong Motor Co. is also reviewing a plan to close plants
from Dec. 17 until the end of the month after it decided to cut
benefits to employees temporarily and lower executive salaries, the
carmakers said yesterday. GM Daewoo Auto & Technology Co., a unit of
General Motors Corp., is idling its domestic factory for as long as a
month starting December.
Ssangyong, 51 percent owned by China>s SAIC Motor Corp., slid 6.4
percent to 955 won.
To contact the reporter on this story: Seonjin Cha in Seoul at
scha2@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: December 1, 2008 19:32 EST
[/quote]

(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) · Guest

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:10:07 -0500,
"Buerste" <Buerste@att.com> wrote:
[quote](¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) NO FACTS Support the RRR Cult>s
Hate-Agendas! <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Buerste" <Buerste@att.com> wrote:
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Buerste" <Buerste@att.com> wrote:
"mike532" <littlemike532@gmail.com> wrote:
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) <xanadu2...@mchsi.com> wrote:
[/quote]

[quote]What a NEAT and Generous Christmas Present!!

THANKS, Planned Parenthood!!

Planned Parenthood... the network of 35 clinics across [Indiana]
announced it is offering holiday vouchers for basic health care
services "for the recipient>s choice of birth control method."

The organization decided to offer the vouchers because so many
people are uninsured or are putting off health care because of
prohibitive costs, said Betty Cockrum, president and CEO of Planned
Parenthood of Indiana. Nearly 800,000 Indiana residents don>t have
health insurance, she said.

Planned Parenthood>s annual exams for women, which include Pap
tests and breast exams, typically cost $58. The vouchers can be used
for the exams, but also for insurance copays and for medication.

How GENEROUS and CREATIVE!!

GOOD for Planned Parenthood!!

I hope they extend that offer to cover the entire nation!!

I agree. What better gift could you give someone than good health
!

How about NOT murdering them in the womb? Now, there>s a better
gift!

Of course, since NO such thing is even POSSIBLE, since only mere RPEs
are found in wombs, and NEVER people -- NO problem!

So Mike was right. A wonderful gift!

And considering that only UNwanted pregnancies are aborted by girls
and women having NO desire to gestate them, that puts those WORTHLESS
RPEs on the same level as the*quadrillion* Stage One RPES that *men*
electively abort DAILY, worldwide. Human, living, but only *potential*
people.

And only hateful DOLTS would seek to se ANY girls or women FORCED
to gestated UNwanted pregnancies to term against their will -- a very
real, 9-month-long form of RAPE.

People have the free will to do whatever they want. Terrorists have
the free will to kill innocent people and they justify it by adopting a value
system that condones it.

It>s FUN to watch bigots making total FOOLS of themselves by changing
the subject to totally unrelated topics that have ZERO relevance to the
discussion, once they>ve been proven to be MORONS with respect to the
ACTUAL topic at hand.

THANKS for the comedy relief!

I am equally amused to see how people support an racist organization
that targets blacks and solicits money from racist whites.
[/quote]
Bullcrap!! See what I point out NEXT, below.

[quote]40,000,000 abortions in the US and you think that>s just wonderful.
[/quote]
No more "wonderful" than the EQUIVALENT curing of UNwanted
headaches by 40 million people having taken aspirin tablets that they
had full and unfettered access to. Abortion and aspirin BOTH are
merely valuable and beneficial REMEDIES for their respective UNwanted
medical conditions.

[quote]Your posts have always reflected your lack of any morals.
[/quote]
To the contrary. MY posts are *completely* fair and moral. UNLIKE
your hateful ones, that seek to repress and destroy personal liberties,
and make the lives of millions of people miserable for NO good reason.

[quote]That>s your free will.
[/quote]
Thank you. You can COUNT on my continuing to make DOG MEAT of
hateful and ignorant agendas like yours.

[quote]Enjoy the consequences.
[/quote]
There are NO "consequences." But I can ASSURE you that I will
continue to enjoy watching you bigots LOSE at an accelerating pace.

http://www.roadrat.com/Lie/

-- (¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯)

xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me. (Tell me first, in here.)
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry.
http://www.roadrat.com/RRR -- A Cause for CELEBRATION!!
http://www.roadrat.com/RRR -- FREE BUMPER STICKERS!!

John Galt · Guest

Video61@tcq.net wrote:
[quote]On Dec 1, 9:19 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:

OBTW, here is a very important statement in the above article, and it
backs me to the hilt. if you do not understand it, get back to me, and
i will try to explain it to you again:)
``If income and wealth don>t rise, consumption won>t either,"
Sounds pretty obvious to me. It>s generally hard to buy things without
money,

hey, we are making headway here. creativity, innovation, and
manufacturing chase disposable income and leisure time.
[/quote]
I said that you need money to buy stuff, not what you said.
[quote]

and we>re definitely going into a cycle where income and wealth
will collapse to a sustainable level, and production will have to adapt
to a "new normal."

in a free market, no one knows where the bottom will be.
[/quote]
You just claimed to be a historian. Become a market historian, and
you>ll have a good idea where the bottom is. Not perfect, but good.

JG

John Galt · Guest

Video61@tcq.net wrote:
[quote]On Dec 1, 9:31 pm, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:

JG
snicker, there is that word "DEMAND" again.
Why is that funny?

i have been using that word for years. and every conservative and
libertarian i duel with, refuse to acknowledge, or understand, what
the word demand(labor) means in a modern economy.
[/quote]
Last time I checked, the term referred to the quantity of a product or
service desired by consumers.

Still does, apparently:

http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

JG

[quote]

JG

d: December 1, 2008 19:32 EST
[/quote]

John Holmes · Guest

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008, NeoLibertarian wrote:

[quote]Dr. Brian Green Jr. wrote:
GW Chimpzilla>s Eye-Rack Neocon Utopia <gw@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yep. Mises is a piece of crap. Glad you pointed that out to us all, Crap
Detector. Thanks!

VonMises died penniless and discredited because he didn>t know what he was
talking about. The damage done from the Reagan and Bush years are all the
proof anyone needs that his voodoo was nothing but hot air bellowed by a
useless academic ideologue with a small, cult following. Anyone spouting
his crap may as well be spouting the thoughts of Chairman Mao, madman Ted
"Unabomber" Kaczynski, David Koresh or Charles Manson.

So you can>t argue Von Mises' theories? Not surprising, since they>re rather
sound.
[/quote]
For a devastating and sometimes pretty funny refutation of the
"Austrian school" of marginalists like Von Mises, see "Economic Theory
of the Leisure Class" by Nikolai Bukharin, available for all at MIA,
the Marxist Internet Archive.
[quote]
Beyond Von Mises, there is logic to maintaining freedom, especially in the
market place--more logic than in any of the myriad alternatives.

Governments are not capable of bringing you your utopia. The sooner you quit
looking there, the better.

There ain>t no secha thing as a free lunch.
[/quote]
That line is from Robert Heinlein. He got it from his wife Ginny, who
argued him out of his funny-money free-lunch populist economic
theories that he believed in in the 1930s, when he was involved in
Upton Sinclair>s End Poverty In California movement. His first sci fi
novel, written in 1938 but not published, based on those theories,
was unavailable until very recently, when it finally got published.

Marxists don>t believe in free lunch either. Essentially all standard
economic theory is based on the delusion of the existence of free
lunch, namely that profit appears magically out of nowhere, just a
natural birthright of capital. It exists because, and only because,
labor is exploited.

Now the con game seems to be breaking down.

-jh-

[quote]-- > Neolibertarian
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them."
---Ronald Reagan
[/quote]

Guest

On Dec 1, 4:20 pm, "tiny dancer" <tinydan...@nowhere.com> wrote:
[quote]Top Cop: Wal-Mart May Be To Blame For Worker Death
Nassau Detective: Investigation Focusing On Individuals In Crowd And Badly
Thought Out Security Protocols
ME Confirms: 34-Year-Old Man Died Of Asphyxiation

MINEOLA (CBS) ? A top Nassau County police official called it a recipe for
disaster.

Wal-Mart advertised the sale, announced supplies were limited and then -- he
says -- did little to control the surge of people as they funneled through a
single door.

Cops also said. everyone who got into the Valley Stream Wal-Mart when it
opened on Friday morning stepped over, around or on Jdimytai Damour.

The medical examiner lists the cause of death to the temp employee as
asphyxiation as the result of trampling. In other words, the crowd killed
him. But is the crowd primarily responsible? Or does the store bear the
brunt of the responsibility?

Nassau County Det. Lt. Michael Fleming said it looks like Wal-Mart made a
fatal error here.

"It is clear at this juncture with the investigation still going that in my
assessment and our assessment there were not adequate protocols in place,"
Fleming said.

Right now the primary evidence is the surveillance videos provided by
Wal-Mart. They show the crowd surging forward with no one outside the store
to organize the opening.

The police said their investigation will attempt to identify individuals in
the crowd who might have acted recklessly, as well as the store>s own
security protocols. The first set of charges will be tougher to bring - CBS
2 HD was told -- but the second set, involving Wal-Mart, are part of the
business' responsibility for an event like this.

"This kind of thing goes on all the time. Whenever there>s a big movie
release there>s lines around the block; never had an incident. When Apple
comes out or Xbox comes out you have tremendous public interest," Fleming
said. "But if you look at the way those sales are structured and the
protocols in place, you don>t have these types of incidents. The flaw here,
I think we>ll see when we>re done, comes down to the planning and execution
of the sales event."

Fleming also said it appears the victim was sent to the front door of the
Wal-Mart because of his size -- he was 6-foot-5 and 270 pounds -- but police
said he wasn>t trained for security work.

There was no reaction from Wal-Mart on Monday.

http://wcbstv.com/watercooler/walmart.worker.trampled.2.877272.html
[/quote]
Blame the fucking niggers who swarmed the door. I saw the videos and
it
looked like a scene from Africa.

Mitch

http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News

Guest

On Dec 2, 12:09 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
On Dec 1, 9:15 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:

hahahaha. they have one of the highest standards of living in the
world!!!!!!

Yes, they do, statistically.

[/quote]
you mean like a longer healthier life:)

[quote] sounds like he was treated fairly. at least he got his pension. how
well are americans doing with their pensions in the free market:)

Better than he, for the most part. Larger pension checks, even though
there are more bills to pay with it, allow for some flexibility that he
lacks.

[/quote]

it is well documented that millions of americans have lost their
pensions, and their 401k plans have been severely decimated, millions
have had to put off retirement, and are being forced into working some
sort of part time, menial job. hardly the stuff of a advanced wealthy
nation. but i suppose it gives us some sort of flexibility, we get to
ask if you want fries with your burger, and what do you want to drink?
we get to see how many times a pill can be cut, before death steps in,
it keeps the mind sharp:)

[quote] different strokes.

Yep. He>s comfortable, but rather miserable, but he>s stuck with what he
got.

[/quote]
the swedes i sell to are the exact opposite. they have money to
spend, as well as leisure time. they travel all over europe on a
regular basis. you brother inlaw needs to get out more. i know europe
better than you think i do.

[quote] you actually think you will be safe if a fascists sets his eyes on
you. man, history evades the greedy.

Seeing what>s going on with the US economy and a 12T debt, you actually
think you have no risk in the US? :-)

[/quote]

yes we do have risk, thanks to your type. about half that debt is
from tax breaks for wealthy parasites. on top of that, your policies
have turned us over to foreign governments. but, to cut and run, is
what a coward that knows what he has wrought onto us would do.

[quote] hey, its your polices of free trade that has caused the majority of
the borrowing.

No sir. Borrowing is caused by spending more than you have.
[/quote]
lets do a little reeducating here. when you consume your own
products, you create a profit, it adds to the bottom line. when you
purchase foreign made, or foreign owned products, you create debt. its
almost impossible to get your type to understand this. that is why i
penned this.
"i have never met a conservative, nor libertarian that can handle
money, and understands what debt is.

The
[quote]government doesn>t float T bills to buy goods -- they float T-bills to
pay for social programs and foreign wars and all sorts of things in
excess of tax reciepts.

[/quote]
and to offset trade, and budget deficits. i agree on the war thing.
war drains a economy. it should only be used as a last resort. but
social programs? obviously what we are going thru has still not
penetrated the area in your brain that is for logic.

[quote]Nope. Free market conservatives believe in balanced budgets and small
governments.
[/quote]
people who are quite insane, will be a basket of contradictions. you
cannot have either in a free market. we have just witnessed the
results of smaller government. libertarianism is the hand maiden to
fascism, fascism is libertarianism in decay.

If we hadn>t been marginalized by both parties since WW2,
[quote]we wouldn>t be in the mess you statists have gotten us in.

[/quote]
perhaps it was the great depression that marginalized you.

[quote]What, you>re going to claim it was the small government free marketers
who ran up the deficit? ROTFL.

[/quote]

well yes, reagan tripled the debt in a few short years. turned
america from a net trade country, into a net trade deficit country. he
turned america from a net surplus country, into a new debtor nation.
of course history, and the results of your own policies are simply
ignored by you.

[quote]The more statist you become, the more politically dependent you become
on those who expect to benefit from the largesse of the State; and once
those who expect to benefit realize that you have no problem borrowing
from the future generations to obtain the desired largess, all bets are
off.

[/quote]

the borrowing is a direct result of the polices you so feverishly
embrace.

[quote]
hey, its your policies that have brought us to this. its why many
years ago i penned this,
"libertarians and conservatives are the only people i know, who are
constantly outraged at the results of their own policies,(retro added
this)then they blame government."

You are entitled to believe whatever mythology you like, including the
one that evidently believes that supporters of large government would
accomplish their objectives with balanced budgets.

[/quote]

hey, its your policies. in a democracy, you are free to be a
hypocrite:) OBTW, there was very little borrowing till you guys came
to town:)

[quote]"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man>s oldest
exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a
superior moral justification for selfishness.--John Kenneth
Galbraith"

Even Galbraith indulged himself in a straw man argument from time to
time. But, if you and he prefer a nation where personal responsibility
is considered cruel, then as I>ve said before, I will be more than happy
to leave you to the hell of your own making.

[/quote]
ROTFLOL!!!! this is the results of your own policies. the deficits
seem to have appeared, right after we engaged in tax cuts,
deregulation, and free trade. you made this hell, you are to insane to
see it. now you want to cut and run. its why free market economics is
considered "CRANK" science.
today, you are the laughing stock of the world. world leaders stand
up in front of their people like what has happened in brazil, and
loudly denounce you as insane.

[quote] hahaha, it shows how naive you really are. you are so blinded by
greed, selfishness, and hatred, if you really think that will stop a
fascists once he sets eyes on you are laughable. you have weakness>s,
and the fascist will be well prepared to take advantage of them. you
will never see it coming, and you and your family may suffer dearly.

ROTFL. And you think that *I>m* naive? From that statement, I highly
suspect you>ve never spent serious time outside the country, and thus
have no idea how such things work.

[/quote]
yes, i may not be giving you enough credit for stupidity.

[quote]Please explain how your hypothetical fascist in, say Hong Kong, will
access your bank account in the Caymans. Please be specific as to how he
would first know that it existed, and then explain how he would force
you to access it.

[/quote]

its your stupidity that makes you ask such a question. you think they
will be nice and honorable to you and your family, snicker, that is
why i said keep the jets engine warm at all times.

[quote]I>m sure your "explanation" will be amusing.

[/quote]

i am sure it will be to someone so naive, short sighted, and sick
with greed.

[quote]meanwhile in america, you just have to pay your fair share, and live a
nice life.

Yes. The American fascists are much nicer when they demand your money,
and then they leave you alone in your hovel afterward.

[/quote]
it could happen. reversing free market economics that has bankrupted
the world, will not be easy. this is the direct results of your
polices, now you are outraged.

[quote]

baloney. i never fled america when as a young boy reading up my first
time on free market economics, i knew it was unworkable, i knew we had
been thru this before, i knew about 4 decades ago this will be the
results. your cult has stolen the lives of billions world wide, you
have stolen the future of billions worldwide, including most american.
yet i stayed and worked thru the democratically election process, so
that i can help clean up your outrages. and yes, i will have to pay
more for your outrages. we call this democracy. i could have fled.

And yet it works for everyone but you.
[/quote]
if it does, why are you fleeing:)

So much so that we have an entire
[quote]economic team installed by Obama who would be perfectly acceptable to
free market conservatives. I>m not a big fan of supply side economics,
but as a theory it became much more plausible after the work of Summers
and Roehmer.

[/quote]

his team scares me. its more of the same. OBTW, if it plases you.
then the polocies that have you so enraged, you accept.

[quote]I guess Obama didn>t get the memo that you>re "cleaning up."

[/quote]
not yet, but, the history of free market failures, may spur him into
a different direction, if not, he will fall into the same trap clinton
did, and become neutered after only 2 years in office.

[quote]

you should be embarrassed to even acknowledge your political and
economic beliefs after what your type has done to the world. biden is
simply telling you to put up, and shut up. be a man, accept
responsibilities for your actions.

Authoritarianism? Is that what you "respect" in a public servant? A
student of history ought to know what sort of slippery slope THAT is.

[/quote]

yes, a true student of history would know what biden was saying. a
indoctrinated greedy selfish fool, would attribute his statement as
something else.

[quote] i can imagine. paranoid types live in a very special world.

then a democracy is your best bet. i would never expose my family to
a dictatorship, or a free market fascist system.

Agreed.

[/quote]
you are full of contradictions.

[quote]"our state and nation have experienced major declines resulting from
contemporary conservative leaders and their simplistic ideas. their
dour polices regularly fail to connect the dots, let alone comprehend
the space between them.
richard a. swanson"

“Liberals, it has been said, are generous with other peoples' money,
except when it comes to questions of national survival when they prefer
to be generous with other people>s freedom and security.”

William F. Buckley, Jr.

[/quote]

he was a crank, who attracted legions of cranks. under the liberals,
we balanced budgets, ran trade and budget surpluses. under
conservatives, money was spent like drunken sailors. who got us kicked
off the gold standard, not once, but twice in the last century, and
have ran up deficits in all manner for centuries to come:)

[quote] you mean like free trade:) you are a hypocrite, and you are not,
repeat, not a patriot.

You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to believe that you do
not have the wit about you to judge me, or any of the policies you
pretend to be expert in, in the least.

[/quote]
ah, but your crank policies affect me. and in a democracy, i will
work to replace them.

[quote]

"While it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is
true that most stupid people are conservative. ... John Stuart Mill'

“Some of you may remember that in my early days, I was sort of a
bleeding heart liberal. Then I became a man and put away childish ways.”

--Ronald Reagan

[/quote]
you cite a crank who indebted us. typical.

[quote]individual, family, or nation, in the future, will prosper?

its the results of your policies.

I oppose foreign entanglements, so that>s evidently incorrect.

[/quote]
but not free trade, eh:) world war one was a direct result of free
trade. today, we see countries at each others throat, as free market
economics implodes.

[quote] cut and run, and do not accept responsibilities for your own
actions.

I didn>t support these actions, so I don>t need to accept responsibility
for them.

[/quote]
you support free trade, deregulation, privatization, and slashing tax
rates on the wealthy. of course none of those have been responsible
for what we have today, correct:)

[quote]
if you can move all around the world, and have enough money to stash
in various banks around the world. you can afford to pay a little
more, as any true patriot will.

Isk. Anybody can move around the world. You buy a plane ticket and go.
Simple.

the American Revolution.

baloney, the founders were deeply motivated to get out from under the
thumb of corporations, and the wealthy who controlled them. actually,
you are the statist.

ROTFL. The small government guy is the statist. Right. Get a clue.

[/quote]
a statist is someone who wants to stay with the staus quo, like tax
cuts for the wealthy, free trade, deregulation. of course, they do not
work. so now we search for some sort of pocket of greed somewhere,
that no longer exists.
corporations should have no rights, be limited in length of time,
cannot buy other companies, their board members should be limited to
one board, and they should have their charter reviewed on a regular
basis, and if found to be abusing their charter, it should be
revoked.

[quote]Here, you take the test, just for grins. I come in at (5.38,-1.28).

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

What>s interesting is that all of our major candidates (and even Ron
Paul and Bob Barr) were measured to be in the statist/conservative
quadrant, which is where Hitler would fall out in the extremes of the
quadrant. Nobody fell into the statist/liberal quadrant (which is where
I assume you would score, and where Stalin would have, meaning that
you>re as politically disenfranchised as I am). Kuchinich fell into the
liberal/libertarian (or anarchist) quadrant reasonably close to Ghandi,
and the only candidate to fall into the libertarian/conservative
quadrant (where Milton Friedman would be) was Mike Gravel.

One of my favorite quotes from the site:

"In our home page we demolished the myth that authoritarianism is
necessarily "right wing", with the examples of Robert Mugabe, Pol Pot
and Stalin. Similarly Hitler, on an economic scale, was not an extreme
right-winger. His economic policies were broadly Keynesian, and to the
left of some of today>s Labour parties. If you could get Hitler and
Stalin to sit down together and avoid economics, the two diehard
authoritarians would find plenty of common ground."

[/quote]

you paint the world in black and white. its why your type of
economics is failing so miserably. yet you cling to it desperately,
while raging at its results.

[quote] here is a nice primer for you on corporations, the founders were
mostly against them.

Yea, yea, yea, don>t assume you know my position on corporatism. You don>t.

[/quote]

ok. then what is it?

[quote]But it does work. You make the common error of thinking that free market
economics has been properly practiced over the last half century.
[/quote]
yes i know, they never went far enough.

[quote]Corporatism develops because the market is distorted, free for the
producers, but at the expense of the consumers.

[/quote]

it develops because it has the freedom to develop.

[quote]Ah, but you never read Freidman. What would you know about "fair". :-)

[/quote]

read him when i was young. i discounted him, just as i did with rand,
and hayek. only a complete idiot, or someone who is insane, would take
anything they wrote with a grain of salt. reams upon reams of babble,
that is simply to justify greed and selfishness. any child babbles
that. it takes a parent to set things right, other wise, society ends
up with another worthless parasite, that drains the life blood out of
the country.

> JG

Guest

On Dec 2, 12:13 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
On Dec 1, 9:19 am, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:

OBTW, here is a very important statement in the above article, and it
backs me to the hilt. if you do not understand it, get back to me, and
i will try to explain it to you again:)
``If income and wealth don>t rise, consumption won>t either,"
Sounds pretty obvious to me. It>s generally hard to buy things without
money,

hey, we are making headway here. creativity, innovation, and
manufacturing chase disposable income and leisure time.

I said that you need money to buy stuff, not what you said.

[/quote]
its the same thing. its that easy to understand. demand takes money.
can i put it any simpler.

[quote]
and we>re definitely going into a cycle where income and wealth
will collapse to a sustainable level, and production will have to adapt
to a "new normal."

in a free market, no one knows where the bottom will be.

You just claimed to be a historian. Become a market historian, and
you>ll have a good idea where the bottom is. Not perfect, but good.

JG
[/quote]

mellon knew, right:) market historian, sounds like a market
fundamentalist.


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